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Hey dakka. I've been seeing the hype for LotR coming back, and I thought I'd hop on the bandwagon and try it out. I actually started my tabletop gaming life with the Mines of Moria set way back when, but I never played the game other than with my brother.

My quick question is about is list building. I picked up 2 captains and about 50 mordor orcs. But from what I've picked up on the forums, captains can only lead up to 12 models. Is that correct? Did I over-buy to get started? Second question, if that is the case, how solid would a core of 24 orcs and 2 captains be to learn the game? Am I going to need significantly more later on, or would this fill out any list I might play pretty well? Because if that is the case, I would rather trade off my bare plastic orcs for some Gondor models for my GF to play. (If anyone is interested in trading/buying 24 NOS mordor orcs, let me know )

Sorry for all the questions. I'm kind of flying blind into this game because while I love the LotR universe, I still don't have the rule books and don't know how to build lists. I just have read that it is a very solid core set and wanted to try it out. So thanks in advance for the advice!

Hi Freytag!

You've read correctly, you are limited to 12 models per hero at the moment, and unless you're planning an orc horde list (which is entirely viable, I should point out), you have a few too many guys! If that is what you're interested in running though, your next logical purchase would be a Morannon Orc Command. That'll give you the Shaman (for Fury), the Drummer (to help them move faster, and a third captain (which will mean you can take up to sixty orcs all told).

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Morannon-Orc-Commanders

It's a lot of models to play with at first, I'd start with a few smaller games, but the fact that you're using multiples of the same unit should allow you to get a grasp on what they do quite quickly.

Any other questions, feel free to ask! We're a friendly bunch here.

Definitely read through the sourcebook/rules before building.
I'm pretty new to it too but from what I understand games will range anywhere from 500p to 1000p.

I wouldn't stress over having too many orc models, you likely wont use them all but you've now got a good pool of figures to butcher into unique looking models if you want to go down that road with your army.

Here's a list I've slapped together and am in the process of painting.

Sauron 375p

Siege Bow with x3 crew 125p

Mordor Orc Warriors x6 spears & x6 swords w shields = 72p
+Orc captain = 45p

Mordor Orc Warriors x6 spears & x6 swords w shields = 72p
+Orc captain = 45p

Mordor Orc Warriors x12 two handed weapons = 72p
+Orc taskmaster = 60p

Mordor Orc Warriors x12 with bows = 72p
Orc Shaman = 50p

Total - 988p

Like I said I'm new too but this is what I've slapped together having read the source book and rule book and I'll play around with the list and maybe add or take out units as I get the swing of the strengths and weaknesses.

Also this link gives a pretty basic overview -

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/The_Lord_of_the_Rings_Strategy_Battle_Game

"Army building in LotRSBG is pretty easy. Start with a hero and give him a retinue of up to twelve warriors. Rinse. Repeat. Certain heroes can't have warbands and are taken as solo models. Each warband is treated as a group for deployment but become individual models after that. Note that you don't have to completely fill out a hero's group before you move on to another. Good armies can take allies from any other good list and evil can take any evil allies, but a hero can only take warriors from his own list. Most lists can only have 1 in 3 models with bows, but several lists have special rules that change this (Easterlings and Haradrim contingents built a certain way have a 1 in 2 ratio while Rohan riders and Rivendell knights don't count towards the limit)."

Ketara wrote:You've read correctly, you are limited to 12 models per hero at the moment, and unless you're planning an orc horde list (which is entirely viable, I should point out), you have a few too many guys! If that is what you're interested in running though, your next logical purchase would be a Morannon Orc Command. That'll give you the Shaman (for Fury), the Drummer (to help them move faster, and a third captain (which will mean you can take up to sixty orcs all told).

Awesome! Thanks for the help. Considering I have a "few" extra orcs, I'll look into converting up a command team.

Agondrae wrote:Definitely read through the sourcebook/rules before building.
I'm pretty new to it too but from what I understand games will range anywhere from 500p to 1000p.

I wouldn't stress over having too many orc models, you likely wont use them all but you've now got a good pool of figures to butcher into unique looking models if you want to go down that road with your army.

Like I said I'm new too but this is what I've slapped together having read the source book and rule book and I'll play around with the list and maybe add or take out units as I get the swing of the strengths and weaknesses.

Also this link gives a pretty basic overview - https://1d4chan.org/wiki/The_Lord_of_the_Rings_Strategy_Battle_Game

Thanks! I guess I'll aim for a 500 point list to start with. An orc horde, some captains, a shaman, and maybe some warg riders. I'll have to work on picking up the books soon so I can start planning out my list.

Also thanks for the link.

Next question: what would be a nice, simple list to play against an orc horde? I was planning on getting a couple of boxes of minis tirith warriors and horsemen. But any suggestions?

 Freytag93 wrote:


Next question: what would be a nice, simple list to play against an orc horde? I was planning on getting a couple of boxes of minis tirith warriors and horsemen. But any suggestions?

The classic is Warriors of Minas Tirith against Orcs. If you get the old return of the king rulebook, it has a few scenarios along those lines. If you want to make it a little more interesting though, a Rohan army would give you a different play style and let you get familiar with the cavalry rules.

 Freytag93 wrote:
Next question: what would be a nice, simple list to play against an orc horde? I was planning on getting a couple of boxes of minis tirith warriors and horsemen. But any suggestions?

I would agree that a mix of Warriors and Knights would make a good starter force for Minas Tirith. Likewise a mix of Warriors and Riders of Rohan would work, too. A pair of warbands and a couple captains would give you a good start, and from there you could expand it with some characters and more elite warrior choices.

Hello Newcomer!

I'd hold on to the spare 24 mordor orcs, you can use them for conversions later on if anything. 24 Mordor orcs are also a sweet little coaxing bribe to get your friends into the game alongside you. Sell them the models for a fair price, even if it is under what you paid, and watch your gaming group grow! That's what I did to make my 8-population battle companies crew, simply made my dusty collection an inviting opportunity.

As for learning the game?
Get another player, grab a rulebook from your Mines of Moria Box (if you still have it), grab a Scenario and simply try it out. 24 mordor orcs and 2 captains is more than enough to learn the game. Orcs fighting among themselves is a common occurrence. A good point level for quick & easy games is 100 points, perfect to really understand individual units and the power of heroes on a small scale before diving into larger games where it can get hard to keep track.

List-building!
As long as your army is no more than 33% bows (rounding up) and follows the warband constraints, it honestly doesn't matter what you field at the start. At this stage, it isn't about making a competitive list or having a balance of units. It is a matter of having fun and exploring the simple and fun SBG system. When you have played a few games with what you have, THEN buy some supplements to your orc army. Cavalry is a decent logical step in regards to Basic list-building exploration. Of course, if you just really want that cool model to play with from the start GET IT. Nothing helps a player learn to play better than having excitement and motivation to play

After you have spent some time jamming to the soundtrack of the movies and having a ball of a time on the tabletop, come back and ask about strategic options if you find you need it.



-DK

The SBG army builder spreadsheet here is amazing:

http://www.lonelyknight.0fees.net/?ckattempt=1

Lets you play around with your army easily - Has all the points costs, but none of the rules, so you still need a copy of the book...

 Freytag93 wrote:
Thanks! I guess I'll aim for a 500 point list to start with. An orc horde, some captains, a shaman, and maybe some warg riders. I'll have to work on picking up the books soon so I can start planning out my list.

Also thanks for the link.

Next question: what would be a nice, simple list to play against an orc horde? I was planning on getting a couple of boxes of minis tirith warriors and horsemen. But any suggestions?

Minas Tirith is classic and pairing against your Orc army will give you a good mix of two different playstyles, not to mention that Minas Tirith also has several playstyles. What kind of budget do you have? The easy "about a hundred bucks" starter recommendation is something like:

1. Minas Tirith Commanders box - a Captain as well as a Knight of the White Tower - two heroes to lead warbands! the Knight can also be proxied as a normal Captain if you need to juggle points. The Banner Bearer and Hornblower will bring a lot of utility to your games as well (especially in attrition style games where you need your models to stick around!)
2. Two boxes of Minas Tirith Warriors - two instant warbands, composed of skilled men with excellent defense. Alternately check ebay cuz plastic Minas Tirith dudes are super cheap. I would recommend trying to own at LEAST 24 (8 of each type) and would not feel comfortable without at least 36 (12 of each type)
3. One box of Minas Tirith Knights. I mean, they're heavily armored knights. They look sweet. Paint one dude a little fancier and he is a Captain on horse. When they charge, they wreck everything thanks to the double attacks, lance rule, and making everyone prone. Orcs will go flying backwards in heaps of broken bodies as your Knights of Minas Tirith execute your perfectly planned charge. The aforementioned captain on horse calls a heroic combat and all the knights charge in for a second round of beatings. You will break your opponent's force and your opponent's will as your knights cut a swatch of destruction through their army. Tears will be shed by the bucketful.

Then when you're looking to expand, I'd say get

4. Cirion & Madril blister pack - Cirion is a great value for his points - same cost as a Captain but with one more Might and his fun little courage rule. Madril, kind of the same thing, better than a normal Captain and has cool ambush rules, so then...
5. Get a box of Rangers! They all have bows so you gotta start messin' with model counts at this point but they have a 3+ shoot AND 4 fight for only 8 points. Lower defense than a normal MT warrior, but adding Spears to a few means they can hold their own defensively. Remember you can shoot with a bow if you are behind a model, touching bases, so a spear/bow guy directly behind a bow guy is not only in position to support his buddy but also shoot with that sweet 3+ shoot value.

From there, gosh, some fun things to do would be to theme your list:
6. OSGILIATH! Get Boromir w/ banner and a couple packs of Osgiliath Veterans. Fight 5 Osgiliath Veterans (3 +1 for being near Boromir +1 for being near the Banner) hanging around with one of the beastliest heroes in the game!
7. MINAS TIRITH! Get Denethor and maybe Beregond and some packs of Citadel Guard and Fountain Court guard.
8. ITHILIEN! Get ranger-style Faramir & Damrod pack to combine with Madril and have tons of rangers, as many 3+ shooting rangers as you can get, with normal Warriors of Minas Tirith chillin' to counterattack enemies while your rangers shoot 'em to pieces.

Or get 'em all! Go crazy! Minas Tirith is awesome, looks awesome, plays awesome, and has some of the best models in the range and a wide array of fun heroes to lead your dudes! Trust me, after you buy the first box you'll be looking at terrain articles to start building your own Osgiliath ruins!

Thank you for all the advice guys. Glad to see that this is still an active and helpful forum

For the orcs, I've played around with the list builder that Slinky provided. I'm going to run a 500 point list similar to what Agondrae suggested. Something like the following:

Orc Captain: 11 Orc Warriors (4 bows, 3 shields, 4 spears)
Orc Captain: 11 Orc Warriors (4 bows, 4 shields, 3 two-handed)
Mordor Orc Shaman: 11 Orc Warriors (4 bows, 3 spears, 4 two-handed)
Orc Drummer: Orc with banner, Mordor Troll
Total - 498 points

I think this list will be relatively straight forward for easy learning but also have a some fun elements to learn. Plus I just love trolls.

judgedoug wrote:Minas Tirith is classic and pairing against your Orc army will give you a good mix of two different playstyles, not to mention that Minas Tirith also has several playstyles. What kind of budget do you have? The easy "about a hundred bucks" starter recommendation is something like:

1. Minas Tirith Commanders box - a Captain as well as a Knight of the White Tower - two heroes to lead warbands! the Knight can also be proxied as a normal Captain if you need to juggle points. The Banner Bearer and Hornblower will bring a lot of utility to your games as well (especially in attrition style games where you need your models to stick around!)
2. Two boxes of Minas Tirith Warriors - two instant warbands, composed of skilled men with excellent defense. Alternately check ebay cuz plastic Minas Tirith dudes are super cheap. I would recommend trying to own at LEAST 24 (8 of each type) and would not feel comfortable without at least 36 (12 of each type)
3. One box of Minas Tirith Knights. I mean, they're heavily armored knights. They look sweet. Paint one dude a little fancier and he is a Captain on horse. When they charge, they wreck everything thanks to the double attacks, lance rule, and making everyone prone. Orcs will go flying backwards in heaps of broken bodies as your Knights of Minas Tirith execute your perfectly planned charge. The aforementioned captain on horse calls a heroic combat and all the knights charge in for a second round of beatings. You will break your opponent's force and your opponent's will as your knights cut a swatch of destruction through their army. Tears will be shed by the bucketful.

I think this pretty much hits the nail on the head. I've got my eye on a nice lot of MT warriors that I can get for cheap (though they do need some serious love) that can get me up to above 30 warriors. It comes with 2 commanders, which means I just have to convert up one more. Finally, I can pick up a box of MT knights. So the list will be something like this:

Captain: 9 MT warriors (3 bow, 3 shield, 3 spear)
Captain: 9 MT warriors (3 bow, 3 shield, 3 spear)
Captain: 9 MT warriors (3 bow, 3 shield, 3 spear)
Captain on horse (lance and shield): 4 knights with shields
Total - 492 points

So what do y'all think? Would these two lists be pretty balanced against each other? Any changes I should make?

Also as a side question, I know that models act independently once they are deployed. So does it matter what warband I put each model in? For example, is there any problem with me putting my orc banner in the same warband as the troll? I know it's legal, but I want to know if there's any strategy to it.

The only thing to bear in mind with Warbands is that in some missions, Warbands will come in from reserves at different times, and in all missions have to deploy together, so with your banner Orc in a Warband with just the Troll, you run the risk of it coming in late and being too late to help. Likewise, you might want to consolidate your archers and shield troops into separate Warbands in both lists, so you can concentrate their capabilities better (3x3 archers across the board is less useful than a concentrated firebase of the full 9 deployed together).

Once the game starts, it's less important, it's just the deployment element you might want to look at.

Paradigm is right, so there is strategy to warband composition.

Also you should definitely try to get the old metal armored Faramir on horse to lead your Minas Tirith knights

Or,for flavor you could drop the MT bow and have Damrod or Madril lead some Rangers, because, as I mentioned, they have great Fight and Shoot.

So something like

Captain: 8 MT warriors (4 shield, 4 spear)
Captain: 8 MT warriors (4 shield, 4 spear)
Madril: 8 rangers (4 spear)
Faramir or Captain on horse (lance and shield): 4 knights with shields

not sure of points off the top of my head but should be roughly 500. Would require a box of plastic Rangers, the Cirion/Madril blister, and optionally the old metal Faramir on horseback from ebay. But you'd have a pretty versatile Minas Tirith army!

 judgedoug wrote:
Paradigm is right, so there is strategy to warband composition.

Also you should definitely try to get the old metal armored Faramir on horse to lead your Minas Tirith knights

Or,for flavor you could drop the MT bow and have Damrod or Madril lead some Rangers, because, as I mentioned, they have great Fight and Shoot.

So something like

Captain: 8 MT warriors (4 shield, 4 spear)
Captain: 8 MT warriors (4 shield, 4 spear)
Madril: 8 rangers (4 spear)
Faramir or Captain on horse (lance and shield): 4 knights with shields

not sure of points off the top of my head but should be roughly 500. Would require a box of plastic Rangers, the Cirion/Madril blister, and optionally the old metal Faramir on horseback from ebay. But you'd have a pretty versatile Minas Tirith army!

Might as well make one of those captains Cirion since he comes with Madril anyways. You can always skip buying a Captain on horse by taking the "come at me bro" minas tirith warrior, cutting him and a knight at the belts and swapping legs. Or any of the warriors for that matter, but the one I mention is straight from a White Dwarf tutorial.

Third to last warrior from the bottom right.

Sorta off topic but what point size games you usually play? We play 500p if there's little time, 750p as the standard (about 4 full warbands, an option to take an expensive hero) and sometimes 1000p games too, especially with a more complicated scenario than just killing models.

Lately I have been playing 100 points, it is ridiculously fun. Though my "standard" would be 500 points. Large games for us are 750. This is all in the spirit of fast-fluid games that should only take an hour at most unless we want a long game.

I have been toying with the idea of a hero + minions style where you get like 300 points or something, but most factions can only have 1 warband so as to promote the usage of expensive heroes.