Should the 2016 Olympics be postponed? Brazil cannot get their...stuff together.

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**kronk**

I admit, I will be watching for the schadenfraud, but there is no way would go to this...

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/03/opinion/sunday/brazils-olympic-catastrophe.html?_r=0

1 month out: stadiums with no seats, stadiums with no fields, stadiums with no restrooms or other facilities, toxic waste in the rivers, lakes and ponds, body parts washing up on shore, shootings near venues (gang/ organized crime violence), kidnappings, mass transit not complete, hotels not complete, mass hysteria.

Would you go?

**LordofHats**

But you see Kronk, the IOC believes wholeheartedly that Brazil will be ready. Surely nothing can go wrong if the IOC believes it so, because reality is nothing but a fabric upon which their optimistic outlook will be reflected without fail

Seriously though, the games will probably be okay. I expect they'll be messy though, and not the great achievement Brazil would have preferred. As my snide mocking might have suggested, I think the IOC in recent years has become a little overly optimistic with some of their choices

**FabricatorGeneralMike**

LordofHats wrote:
But you see Kronk, the IOC believes wholeheartedly that Brazil will be ready. Surely nothing can go wrong if the IOC believes it so, because reality is nothing but a fabric upon which their optimistic outlook will be reflected without fail

Seriously though, the games will probably be okay. I expect they'll be messy though, and not the great achievement Brazil would have preferred. As my snide mocking might have suggested, I think the IOC in recent years has become a little overly optimistic with some of their choices

Naa they just gave the best bribe....

**SemperMortis**

FabricatorGeneralMike wrote:
LordofHats wrote:
But you see Kronk, the IOC believes wholeheartedly that Brazil will be ready. Surely nothing can go wrong if the IOC believes it so, because reality is nothing but a fabric upon which their optimistic outlook will be reflected without fail

Seriously though, the games will probably be okay. I expect they'll be messy though, and not the great achievement Brazil would have preferred. As my snide mocking might have suggested, I think the IOC in recent years has become a little overly optimistic with some of their choices

Naa they just gave the best bribe....

I think that just about sums it up. very similar to the FIFA scandals going on right now. Because you know, Qatar is a great place to host a world cup...in the heat....in out door stadiums....idiots.

**cincydooley**

Brazil should have never been awarded the olympics in the first place. There are multiple US potential Olympians that have said they're dropping out due to zika concerns. And then there's the rest that Kronk listed.

Time to stop trying to bolster gakky areas by gifting them the olympics and start giving it only to areas that already have the infrastructure.

**reds8n**

Whilst one appreciates that it would mean people in various places missing out, one wonders if it might be better if we just sited the event in Greece permanently.

The guaranteed income and work this would've done would have helped Greece out no end -- which in turn stabilises the global economy a bit more -- and would make the placing of training camps and the like a lot easier.

*shrugs*

Never gonna happen of course..

**LordofHats**

That's actually not a rotten idea. Plus we can cease and desist this nonsense where every new Olympics requires a country to break the bank building facilities.

**timetowaste85**

Greece has some serious history backing it in getting the games fully. I'd support that idea.

If bull-riding was ever in the works to become an Olympic sport though, it would have to change to be Minotaur-riding.

**reds8n**

... no need to sound quite so surprised there eh ?

We'd eliminate -- some -- of the corruption involved in the bidding process and the issue of what to do with the white elephant facilities the event always causes.

In turn it'd be easier to build accommodation and/or transport links to the sites, and you'd, hopefully, have a decent amount of time to actually construct things. You could even plan things in stages 2 or 3 or etc etc events ahead of themselves.

If needs be there could always be a "host" nation whose nominal turn it is to be in charge -- so we wouldn't miss out on all those spectacular opening ceremonies that you watch edited highlights of on youtube sometime after the whole thing has finished.

**LordofHats**

timetowaste85 wrote:
Greece has some serious history backing it in getting the games fully. I'd support that idea.

If bull-riding was ever in the works to become an Olympic sport though, it would have to change to be Minotaur-riding.

We'd also obviously have to reinstate good old Gladitorial combat. Get some friendly rivalries going;

**agnosto**

Japan's already quietly preparing for 2020...the government is considering converting love hotels to curb hotel shortages.

"You're here for the swimming event? OK, we'll put you in the beach room."

**jhe90**

Brazil where looking like it was going to be cutting it close a year or two ago...

UK, Europe, US etc could easily throw something together in a few weeks. Be messy, be rough but we could do it.

Not be super polished like some but we already have all the facilities etc all ready to go.

**gorgon**

I dunno. I remember lots of panic in the leadup to Athens in 2004 about terrorism and unfinished facilities. And the Greeks not only got the work done, but didn't have a single incident during the Games (IIRC they spent something like a billion USD on security). Regardless, lots of people (especially Westerners, and especially Americans) stayed away, resulting in many unsold tickets and empty hotel rooms, and not nearly the financial boon the Greeks expected. That was a *fething shame*.

Looks like Rio's headed the same way, and I can't help but think some of this is us in richer countries looking down our noses at poorer ones trying to put on an Olympic Games.

**Polonius**

Reading articles about how the host city isn't ready for the Olympics are a quadrennial tradition. It's basically a cliché, although admittedly this is probably the worst it's been.

Sochi was pretty bad, and the stories that came out where that it was pretty miserable for plenty of the athletes and tourists.

Odds are, the games will go on, there will be some struggles, but for the most part they succeed. Which will be enough for the IOC to not change their strategy.

Also, even very well planned Olympics can have problems: Vancouver completed everything well in advance, but a luger still died in a training run accident. While it was determined to be athlete error after the games, they still added safety features and changed the start gates for the actual Olympics.

I think the response of the actual residents of Vancouver to the games, specifically active belligerence, will likely dissuade the IOC from selecting Western democracies as frequently as they have been. Autocracy is a real benefit for huge events.

**jhe90**

gorgon wrote:
I dunno. I remember lots of panic in the leadup to Athens in 2004 about terrorism and unfinished facilities. And the Greeks not only got the work done, but didn't have a single incident during the Games (IIRC they spent something like a billion USD on security). Regardless, lots of people (especially Westerners, and especially Americans) stayed away, resulting in many unsold tickets and empty hotel rooms, and not nearly the financial boon the Greeks expected. That was a *fething shame*.

Looks like Rio's headed the same way, and I can't help but think some of this is us in richer countries looking down our noses at poorer ones trying to put on an Olympic Games.

if you cannot afford it though, don't bid. if selected your basicaly got a huge ticking clock which you have to be ready or look bad over the entire globe

**Mr. Burning**

This seems quite pertinent.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-36653007

There was a nasty surprise awaiting passengers in the arrivals hall at Rio de Janeiro's Galeao International Airport on Monday.
Along with the relatives carrying flowers and taxi drivers waiting with name boards there were lines of off-duty police with banners that had a far more ominous message: "Welcome to Hell".
"Police and firefighters don't get paid," the banners, in English and Portuguese, went on. "Whoever comes to Rio de Janeiro will not be safe". Photos of the protest have been widely shared on social media and in the Brazilian press. The image above was posted on the photo sharing site Imgur, where it was viewed more than three million times in less than a day.
Elsewhere in the city police staged other demonstrations against the late payment of salaries and a lack of basic necessities like car fuel and toilet paper. Around 300 police officers dressed in black stood on the steps of the Rio de Janeiro state assembly. One banner read "The police's priority is the people, the government's priority is the Olympics". A spokesman for the Rio police force said the situation was dire. "We are in a meltdown," he said.
Police protest on MondayImage copyrightVANDERLEI ALMEIDA
Image caption
Police protest outside the Rio de Janeiro state assembly
The message was echoed by Francisco Dornelles, the acting governor of Rio de Janeiro, who told the Brazilian newspaper O Globo that the state was still waiting on the promised $860 million payout from the federal government ahead of the start of the games. He added that without the cash injection, police patrols may be have to be halted due to the lack of funds for basics like car fuel.
The police protests are one more symptom of the political and economic woes which have engulfed Brazil and which threaten to overshadow the Olympic Games which Rio is preparing to host in August.
Brazil's Senate suspended the country's President Dilma Rousseff, and then began impeachment proceedings against her over accusations that she manipulated the government budget ahead of her 2014 re-election campaign.
On the economic front the picture isn't much prettier. By the first quarter of 2016, government figures showed that Brazil was experiencing its worst recession in 25 years. The Gross Domestic Product of the country shrank 5.4% in comparison with the same period last year. Meanwhile unemployment between February and April of this year grew to 11.2% from 9.5%. Average monthly wages also fell to just 1,962 Brazilian reais ($552).
If that wasn't enough the Olympic organising committee is dealing with the news that two more famous sportsmen - including golf world number one Jason Day - have withdrawn from the games because of fears about the Zika virus. However, the CEO of the games has said that concerns about the virus affecting the Olympics have been "blown out of the proportion."

When a countries public servants take a stand you know things are on rocky ground.

**djones520**

I know that Sochi we were expecting to see things be a bit rough. And I've seen people say "well everyone said Sochi would be a failure", but this is nothing like that.

This is just going to be a disaster...

**jhe90**

Given situation, go with plan B and host in Europe or USA. At this rate.

**Prestor Jon**

The problem lies more with the IOC than with Brazil. In theory, awarding the games to Rio in order to promote the region and provide funds to help fix their water system/pollution problems is a great idea. In practice the IOC got their bribes, awarded the games and doesn't really care if Brazil can meet all the conditions they were given. The conditions are more like suggestions because the IOC isn't going to take the games away from Rio and everyone knows it. Rio bought the games and even when it was clear years ago that none of the conditions like having clean water for venues were going to be met nothing was done. When not enough progress was being made in terms of cleaning up the sites the IOC should have moved the games. The time to make the decision was years ago when it was still feasible. Now it's too late and whatever happens in Rio will happen.

It would make a lot more sense to pool funds and create a few dedicated sites for the summer and winter games and just rotate through them. Have 3 winter game sites, one in Canada, Switzerland and Russia. Have 3 summer games sites, Greece, USA, and China. You cover different parts of the world and put the games in appropriate climates and with quality infrastructure. Let the IOC make its money off of TV rights like other sports instead of cashing in on host city bribes.

**jhe90**

Europe could easily host a summer games too. spread it across a country or area of countries,

just use existing infrastructure.

**gorgon**

Polonius wrote:
Reading articles about how the host city isn't ready for the Olympics are a quadrennial tradition. It's basically a cliché, although admittedly this is probably the worst it's been.

Sochi was pretty bad, and the stories that came out where that it was pretty miserable for plenty of the athletes and tourists.

Odds are, the games will go on, there will be some struggles, but for the most part they succeed. Which will be enough for the IOC to not change their strategy.

Also, even very well planned Olympics can have problems: Vancouver completed everything well in advance, but a luger still died in a training run accident. While it was determined to be athlete error after the games, they still added safety features and changed the start gates for the actual Olympics.

I think the response of the actual residents of Vancouver to the games, specifically active belligerence, will likely dissuade the IOC from selecting Western democracies as frequently as they have been. Autocracy is a real benefit for huge events.

You'd think that it'd occur to journalists that the Games is such a massive undertaking that no matter the country, there will in fact be preparations right up to the start of the opening ceremonies. And then probably still more preparations for events taking place later in the Games.

Journalists mostly tend to complain a lot at these things, and they're the lens through which most of us experience the Games. They griped about issues and inconveniences in Atlanta, IIRC. And Atlanta actually had a terrorism incident, unlike Greece, and I'm guessing unlike Rio.

So yeah, I agree...odds are that the Games will be fine on TV. And isn't that what matters to the VAST majority of us?

jhe90 wrote:
Given situation, go with plan B and host in Europe or USA. At this rate.

An Olympic Games isn't remotely something you can just throw together, no matter what you think. There is and can be no plan B. It'll all be fine on TV...just watch.

**Prestor Jon**

gorgon wrote:
Polonius wrote:
Reading articles about how the host city isn't ready for the Olympics are a quadrennial tradition. It's basically a cliché, although admittedly this is probably the worst it's been.

Sochi was pretty bad, and the stories that came out where that it was pretty miserable for plenty of the athletes and tourists.

Odds are, the games will go on, there will be some struggles, but for the most part they succeed. Which will be enough for the IOC to not change their strategy.

Also, even very well planned Olympics can have problems: Vancouver completed everything well in advance, but a luger still died in a training run accident. While it was determined to be athlete error after the games, they still added safety features and changed the start gates for the actual Olympics.

I think the response of the actual residents of Vancouver to the games, specifically active belligerence, will likely dissuade the IOC from selecting Western democracies as frequently as they have been. Autocracy is a real benefit for huge events.

You'd think that it'd occur to journalists that the Games is such a massive undertaking that no matter the country, there will in fact be preparations right up to the start of the opening ceremonies. And then probably still more preparations for events taking place later in the Games.

Journalists mostly tend to complain a lot at these things, and they're the lens through which most of us experience the Games. They griped about issues and inconveniences in Atlanta, IIRC. And Atlanta actually had a terrorism incident, unlike Greece, and I'm guessing unlike Rio.

So yeah, I agree...odds are that the Games will be fine on TV. And isn't that what matters to the VAST majority of us?

jhe90 wrote:
Given situation, go with plan B and host in Europe or USA. At this rate.

An Olympic Games isn't remotely something you can just throw together, no matter what you think. There is and can be no plan B. It'll all be fine on TV...just watch.

I'm sure the tv coverage will be great. We'll have great views of Olympic athletes competing in outdoor water venues that are contaminated with raw sewage, hospital waste and strains of super bacteria. The games are always a massive undertaking and rarely ever see all the venues and infrastructure completed on time or without issues but I think making sure that the venues don't pose an active threat to the health of the athletes should be of tantamount importance. It's bad enough that Rio's residents are stuck with badly polluted waters but there's no excuse for asking athletes to compete in them.

**gorgon**

Prestor Jon wrote:
I'm sure the tv coverage will be great. We'll have great views of Olympic athletes competing in outdoor water venues that are contaminated with raw sewage, hospital waste and strains of super bacteria. The games are always a massive undertaking and rarely ever see all the venues and infrastructure completed on time or without issues but I think making sure that the venues don't pose an active threat to the health of the athletes should be of tantamount importance. It's bad enough that Rio's residents are stuck with badly polluted waters but there's no excuse for asking athletes to compete in them.

Still a lot of hullabaloo for what, rowing and kayak as the affected events? Realistically, those events could be cancelled entirely, and it still wouldn't make the Rio Games a disaster.

**Prestor Jon**

gorgon wrote:
Prestor Jon wrote:
I'm sure the tv coverage will be great. We'll have great views of Olympic athletes competing in outdoor water venues that are contaminated with raw sewage, hospital waste and strains of super bacteria. The games are always a massive undertaking and rarely ever see all the venues and infrastructure completed on time or without issues but I think making sure that the venues don't pose an active threat to the health of the athletes should be of tantamount importance. It's bad enough that Rio's residents are stuck with badly polluted waters but there's no excuse for asking athletes to compete in them.

Still a lot of hullabaloo for what, rowing and kayak as the affected events? Realistically, those events could be cancelled entirely, and it still wouldn't make the Rio Games a disaster.

I think we have different ideas of disaster. I'm much less concerned with tv ratings and everyone who was going to profit from the games already has their money ( aside from post games endorsements for winning athletes). In my opinion the act of knowingly and needlessly endangering the well being of athletes is an inexcusable disaster. Inviting the world to send their best athletes to compete when the venues aren't even safe is a terrible violation of the principles of the games themselves.

**jhe90**

Prestor Jon wrote:
gorgon wrote:
Prestor Jon wrote:
I'm sure the tv coverage will be great. We'll have great views of Olympic athletes competing in outdoor water venues that are contaminated with raw sewage, hospital waste and strains of super bacteria. The games are always a massive undertaking and rarely ever see all the venues and infrastructure completed on time or without issues but I think making sure that the venues don't pose an active threat to the health of the athletes should be of tantamount importance. It's bad enough that Rio's residents are stuck with badly polluted waters but there's no excuse for asking athletes to compete in them.

Still a lot of hullabaloo for what, rowing and kayak as the affected events? Realistically, those events could be cancelled entirely, and it still wouldn't make the Rio Games a disaster.

I think we have different ideas of disaster. I'm much less concerned with tv ratings and everyone who was going to profit from the games already has their money ( aside from post games endorsements for winning athletes). In my opinion the act of knowingly and needlessly endangering the well being of athletes is an inexcusable disaster. Inviting the world to send their best athletes to compete when the venues aren't even safe is a terrible violation of the principles of the games themselves.

Endangering there health, future careers in there sports and also at the worst, whole life damaging events.
Not worth it, the health of the competieters has to be guaranteed.

**JohnHwangDD**

The Summer Olympics should probably be split into Spring, Summer and Fall. That would dramatically reduce the cost of hosting.

And double the opportunities for the IOC to receive bribes!

**Kilkrazy**

cincydooley wrote:
Brazil should have never been awarded the olympics in the first place. There are multiple US potential Olympians that have said they're dropping out due to zika concerns. And then there's the rest that Kronk listed.

Time to stop trying to bolster gakky areas by gifting them the olympics and start giving it only to areas that already have the infrastructure.

Practically every Olympics has new infrastructure built for it. Part of the point of doing it is to stimulate the local economy with building and transport projects.

The current Zika outbreak had not happened when these Olympics were awarded.

**welshhoppo**

JohnHwangDD wrote:
The Summer Olympics should probably be split into Spring, Summer and Fall. That would dramatically reduce the cost of hosting.

And double the opportunities for the IOC to receive bribes!

Nay! I would go more and host a different season of the olympics each year. Then everyone can have bribes!

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

professional sport basically endangers the health of athletes, even if they aren't involved in illegal performance enhancing drugs,

intensive training leads to injuries, pride in themselves/their countries lead people to overtrain and push themselves beyond their limits

so if it's athletes safety your worried about cancel them entirely

and in the future to make sure counties keep to their Olympic commitment any facilities etc that come in below the agreed standard should lead to a permanent loss of Olympic slots for the next 5 games (drawn first from the events the host country fielded athletes in).

That would be a major blow to national pride (what do you mean we can't put anybody into the 100 meters?), but these days truly talented athletes can always find another county) else to compete for

**JohnHwangDD**

welshhoppo wrote:
JohnHwangDD wrote:
The Summer Olympics should probably be split into Spring, Summer and Fall. That would dramatically reduce the cost of hosting.

And double the opportunities for the IOC to receive bribes!

Nay! I would go more and host a different season of the olympics each year. Then everyone can have bribes!

Dude, that is what I just suggested... Winter, Spring, Summer, Fall.