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EDIT:

So I thought about it more and looked at the Phalanx Warder kit, and noticed that it is actually in Mk IV armor. So in that respect, I think am going to make the army using Mk IV armor. So in that respect, I think I will get two boxes of Betrayal at Calth. Definitely going to get the shoulder pauldrons for them. I am going to use the Phalanx Warder upgrade kit as the basis of both my Breacher Squads and my Phalanx Warder Squads. My planned setup for a Stone Gauntlet is as following:

2x Breacher Squads with 2x Meltaguns each
2x Phalanx Warder Squads with 2x Plasmaguns each (or should I kit them for Melee?)
2x Tactical Squads with a Combi-Weapon (not sure of what type) and a Special Weapon (not sure of what type) each
2x Kheres Assault Cannon Contemptor Dreadnoughts
2x Squads of Cataphractii Terminators (not sure of the setup)

Is there a better way I should set this up?

I also fully intend to pick up Alexis Polux because he is awesome.

Use the 2 5 man squads as a 10 man squad of termies and turn them into cataphracti hammernators.
Did you mean 2 units of veteran tacticals with a combi weapon and special weapon?

What? I just noticed that Legion Tactical Squads can't take a Special Weapon?! Why does the kit come with them then? I suppose so you can make a Veteran Tactical Squad.

I may end up doing Veteran Tactical Squads. Can't exactly decide.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
What? I just noticed that Legion Tactical Squads can't take a Special Weapon?! Why does the kit come with them then? I suppose so you can make a Veteran Tactical Squad.

I may end up doing Veteran Tactical Squads. Can't exactly decide.

Yeah, it's so you can make Tactical Support Squads if you have five of the sprues, or Veteran squads, or even use them in 40k.

Veterans have their uses, especially with 2x Heavy Bolters and the Sniper rule, but I wouldn't use them as line infantry - they cost far too much to be used as regular troops.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
What? I just noticed that Legion Tactical Squads can't take a Special Weapon?! Why does the kit come with them then? I suppose so you can make a Veteran Tactical Squad.

I may end up doing Veteran Tactical Squads. Can't exactly decide.

why is that first bit so surprising to people new to 30k

Nah, they can only have bolters+bolt pistol (and CCWs if you want them), BUT they make MUCH better line infantry than vets. do.

If you're going the 2 calth box route, I'd try something like this:

1 praetor (either model)
2 centurions (either model can represent EVERY kind of centurion)

2 20-man tactical squads
2 10-man breacher squads (I'd just buy the MK III breacher set. It will make your warders look more special)
2 10-man warder squads (made from the spare 20 calth marines)

10-man cataphractii squad
2 contemptors (kheres/fist)


30k =/= 40k. You will want larger squads since there's lots of common ways to kill off 10-man squads :(

That seems like a good setup. How should I equip the different squads? Is the Stone gauntlet a good RoW or is there a better one?

Stone guantlet is good if your force is mainly models with shields, as they get the +1 toughness, but it precludes you from Deep Striking. The other IF-specific RoW is basically the exact opposite, forcing you to deepstrike almost everything, but letting you put teleport transponders on infantry, iirc letting you DS turn 1 and blinding things that your DSing infantry teleports near.

The force you are doing can do both really well so i wouldnt worry too much about it, they have different strengths.

 King Amroth wrote:
The force you are doing can do both really well so i wouldnt worry too much about it, they have different strengths.

Sounds good. It looks like both of them allow Phalanx Warders as Troops, so that is good. I really want to make the army using all one armor mark, so I think I will try to find Boarding Shields to use. The FW ones that are sold separately will probably do the trick nicely. I think I am going to still use the Phalanx Warder upgrades to make the Breachers since I could run them as either in the other Rite of War.

At the moment, I am leaning toward the following:
Alexis Polux - 165 pts
2x Cataphractii Terminator Centurions - Probably just with a Combi-Bolter and a Power Sword - Each will cost 120 pts (IS THIS RIGHT?!?!)
2x PA Legion Centurion - Probably going to replace the arms on the Chaplain dudes with a Power Sword and Bolt Pistol and give them Artificer Armor and a Refractor Field - Each will cost 110 pts
2x 20 man Tactical Squads - No upgrades - 250 pts each
2x 10 man Breacher Squads - Probably a Meltagun per 5 men. - 240 pts each
1x 10 man Cataphractii Squad - Combi-Bolters and Power Fists. - 400 pts
2x Contemptor Dreadnoughts - Kheres Assault Cannon and Power Fist. - 190 pts each

The whole force will come in at 2385 pts. I probably won't run all of the Centurions at once though.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 King Amroth wrote:
The force you are doing can do both really well so i wouldnt worry too much about it, they have different strengths.

Sounds good. It looks like both of them allow Phalanx Warders as Troops, so that is good. I really want to make the army using all one armor mark, so I think I will try to find Boarding Shields to use. The FW ones that are sold separately will probably do the trick nicely. I think I am going to still use the Phalanx Warder upgrades to make the Breachers since I could run them as either in the other Rite of War.

At the moment, I am leaning toward the following:
Alexis Polux - 165 pts
2x Cataphractii Terminator Centurions - Probably just with a Combi-Bolter and a Power Sword - Each will cost 120 pts (IS THIS RIGHT?!?!)
2x PA Legion Centurion - Probably going to replace the arms on the Chaplain dudes with a Power Sword and Bolt Pistol and give them Artificer Armor and a Refractor Field - Each will cost 110 pts
2x 20 man Tactical Squads - No upgrades - 250 pts each
2x 10 man Breacher Squads - Probably a Meltagun per 5 men. - 240 pts each
1x 10 man Cataphractii Squad - Combi-Bolters and Power Fists. - 400 pts
2x Contemptor Dreadnoughts - Kheres Assault Cannon and Power Fist. - 190 pts each

The whole force will come in at 2385 pts. I probably won't run all of the Centurions at once though.

1) No... those Centurions will cost 85 pts each. (50 base, +35 for the cataphractii (which comes with the weapons you want) and the PC centurions are the same price for the loadout you listed. Beyond that, you only have 3 HQ slots, so I'd reccomend building one of those centurions as a spare praetor, and almost always you will want to pick a console type for your centurions. (almost all of them are amazing force modifiers)
2) I'd almost always give tactical sergeants artificer, and I love to give my tactical squads extra CCWs (fluff wise and on tabletop it's a decent idea, though tends to get costly)
3) on the breachers, melta is a decent idea, though graviton weaponry is AMAZING for AT (haywire) and for slowing down enemy units (template stays for a turn as difficult terrain)
4) give your cataphractii Srgt. the grenade harness: helps charging into terrain a lot.
5) good loadout on the contemptors

As to the armour MK comment: MK IV is the cheap way to do it (and kinda fluffy) HOWEVER legions prefered using MK III for boarding actions and on breachers due to the increased frontal armour. I say keep your breachers MK III, tacticals MK IV, and what not as it makes your breachers seem more hardened imo. the FW shields sold aren't "technically" breacher shields Though, to be fair, methinks those are a bit to silly looking AND they don't come with the amazing graviton guns

I forgot to put that the Cataphractii Centurions would have the Champion Consul. The Stone Gauntlet Rite of War only allows multiples of the Champion Consul. I will probably build one of the Cataphractii as a Praetor.
Giving the Tactical Sergeant Artificer Armor makes sense, so I will go ahead and make that change. Ultimately, I don't think it will change their actual model, just their designation in-game.
For some odd reason, Phalanx Warders can't take Graviton Guns (WHY?!). Since I kinda want to equip these guys to be able to pull double duty as either Breachers or Warders, it kinda make me need to give them a Meltagun.
SGT for the Terminators will get a 'nade harness.

At any rate, how is this?

Alexis Polux - 165 pts
2x PA Legion Centurion - (Power Sword, Refractor Field, Legion Champion) - 110 pts
2x 20 man Tactical Squads - (Artificer Armor) - 260 pts each
2x 10 man Breacher Squads - (Artificer Armor, 2x Meltagun) - 250 pts each
1x 10 man Cataphractii Squad - (Grenade Harness, Power Fists on all) - 385 pts
2x Contemptor Dreadnoughts - Kheres Assault Cannon and Power Fist. - 190 pts each

Total becomes 2170 pts. I can cut down somewhere to make it 2K. Hell, just taking out one Contemptor gives me that.

My only worry about the list is that your army doesn't really have any teeth. And 2000 points is primarch range, if you know what I mean?

Ehh, I've found that primarchs tend to come out less once the owning player has used him a few times (at least locally. I.e. we all use them ASAP, however eventually you start going "well, why WOULD mortarion be involved in such a small fight" for example) BUT you have a point. Either Expand past BAC for more efficient killy things (sword bretheran, special dreads, etc.)

 Crazyterran wrote:
My only worry about the list is that your army doesn't really have any teeth. And 2000 points is primarch range, if you know what I mean?

When Dorn's model comes out, I will look into that.

Is the Stone Gauntlet even any good to use with Polux since he can't use his Deep Strike granting ability?

I love the stone gauntlet. It really beefs up all the infantry. Just march into rapid fire range and let the BS5 bolters do their thing.

It's not the best list out there, but it's the one I think is the coolest.

I also use it with Polax. I throw him in a squad with an apothecary and vet sergeant carrying power weapons as a counter assault unit.

The only thing my small force of IF struggle against is 2+ saves. I just try to drown them in bolter and assault canon fire...with mixed results.

To be honest, IF's can forced saves onto units, so a 2+ isn't that bad for them to handle.
More so with this much infantry in an army.

However, something like vulkan with a unit of fire drakes will eat turn after turn of shooting and shrug it off.


The main drawback I can see is the severe lack of anti tank weaponry.
Anything AV14 will roll around tearing through units and there's not alot you can do.

I'd shave some points off (maybe 2x15 tacs?) And then grab a vindicator with lasers.
While its not much, they are pretty reliable anti tank.

Maybe I will cut back on the Tacticals and make them 2x15 Squads. I agree, I don't have much for anti-armor, so I will look into that. Heavy Support Squads aren't the worst idea, I suppose.

I would suggest graviton guns over melta guns, just because graviton doesn't get cock blocked by Flare Shields and Armored Ceramite. That, and it is a pretty easy two hull points at the least, since you only fail a haywire roll on a 1.

If you are decent with magnets that might be an option to consider, since grav really is so much better than Melta (imo) in 30k.

Also, doesn't the stone gauntlet only work for models armed with a shield? No point putting those restrictions on yourself without having more bleachers/warders.

 Crazyterran wrote:
I would suggest graviton guns over melta guns, just because graviton doesn't get cock blocked by Flare Shields and Armored Ceramite. That, and it is a pretty easy two hull points at the least, since you only fail a haywire roll on a 1.

If you are decent with magnets that might be an option to consider, since grav really is so much better than Melta (imo) in 30k.

Also, doesn't the stone gauntlet only work for models armed with a shield? No point putting those restrictions on yourself without having more bleachers/warders.

I am going to run two squads of 10 Breachers. I think Graviton Guns will be a good choice as well. I will model my Breachers and Warders differently I guess. Ultimately, it is no different in terms of points.

Grav guns are a heavy last weapon though, so you can't move and shoot them. Something to consider depending on what RoW you go with.

 Swampmist wrote:
Grav guns are a heavy last weapon though, so you can't move and shoot them. Something to consider depending on what RoW you go with.

I could attach a Cataphractii Centurion to them and then that isn't a problem anymore

It would screw them in different ways though.

Nope. Cataphractii is only slow and purposeful in 40k. They have faux-slow and purposeful. I.e. it doesn't transfer to the squad. Graviton are still good as you WANT your breacher squads to get charged (defensive grenades, toighness bonuses, etc.) And as such they I'll have plenty of times where they are not moving

 Brennonjw wrote:
Nope. Cataphractii is only slow and purposeful in 40k. They have faux-slow and purposeful. I.e. it doesn't transfer to the squad. Graviton are still good as you WANT your breacher squads to get charged (defensive grenades, toighness bonuses, etc.) And as such they I'll have plenty of times where they are not moving

ah, good point. At any rate, I think Graviton Guns will be a good option.

10-man breacher squads are too expensive points wise. consider this when creating your list, mate

 teban wrote:
10-man breacher squads are too expensive points wise. consider this when creating your list, mate

Eh. They are expensive, but you get a lot of buffs for it (defensive grenades, void hardened armour, an invuln save, special weapon access) Additionally, fluff>crunch

Hopefully the new book is going to bring breachers a little more in line with what they have but they are actually very useful and putting an apothecary in with them is a great thing.

 Brennonjw wrote:

 teban wrote:
10-man breacher squads are too expensive points wise. consider this when creating your list, mate

Eh. They are expensive, but you get a lot of buffs for it (defensive grenades, void hardened armour, an invuln save, special weapon access) Additionally, fluff>crunch

He could have 15-man breacher squads, i suppose. He'd gain a lot of resilience to firepower. They'd be lovely too!

Thread resurrection!

So I am thinking I will get the new Burning of Prospero box and a Betrayal at Calth box to start this army. I love Mk III, and the Tartaros Terminators always look nice. That would give me the two HQs, 60 PA bodies, 5 Cataphractii, 5 Tartaros, and one Contemptor. It might not have the ability to get as much done as two BaC boxes, but I could sell of Ahriman, the Custodes, and the Sisters of Silence to get more money to buy upgrade kits.

I would make the Mk III into two squads of 15 Breachers, one of the 10-man Mk IV into Phalanx Warders, and make one 20-man Tactical Squad. Or get another Mk IV box and make two 20-Man Tactical Squads.

I think I am going to find a way to make space for a Macro Cannon Aquila Strongpoint. It would be quite fluffy to have my Fists camping in a big fortress. I will get rid of the Contemptors and probably the Cataphractii to do it.

keep the custodes and sisters! They are great addition to the Fists! Dorn was always close to that sort of people