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As per the title, how do new space marines, well, "happen"?

I should probably know this since I play DA but whatever:

I understand that each chapter has a recruiting world(s) of sorts where they get new recruits but what's the process of them going from some dude on a planet to a badass dude in armor? Or do they not start off as normal humans? Are they taken as kids (similar to Spartans from the Halo universe)? Are they clones (like in Star Wars)? Or something else entirely? Plz explain.

Each Space Marine is picked from human male youths, those who show the greatest promise. Different chapters value different things in their recruits, pick them at different ages, use different recruitment methods and use different trials to find the worthy among them, but strength of body and will is considered the most important in all cases, and to my knowledge no one other than the Space Wolves routinely pick recruits beyond puberty, as the process tends to cause problems past that point. Women cannot become Space Marines as the geneseed is incompatible with their hormone levels and tissue types.

Should a recruit both be selected and then pass the very stringent trials that follow (a rare case - it is often said that only one in a thousand is worthy to be a Space Marine), the training regimen begins and the young recruit is implanted with various organs, one by one, over the course of his initial training. Again, how long this takes varies, but by the time the second last implant is inserted the chemicals and implants have made him something very different - a giant whose speed, strength, endurance, mind and soul all are superior to those of the humanity he protects.

A Space Marine has 19 additional organs in total, including a third lung, a second heart, a third kidney and a gland that lets him spit acid.

When it is time for the Space Marine - after many years of training - to take to the field, he does so as a Scout (with very few exceptions. notably Space Wolves, again). He serves as a scout, then earns his last implant (the Black Carapace), letting him neurally interface and control his suit of power armour. He then becomes a devastator, then an assault marine and finally, after having mastered close combat, ranged combat and stealth, he becomes a tactical marine, using his skills for optimal flexibility.

 Ashiraya wrote:
Each Space Marine is picked from human male youths, those who show the greatest promise. Different chapters value different things in their recruits, pick them at different ages, use different recruitment methods and use different trials to find the worthy among them, but strength of body and will is considered the most important in all cases, and to my knowledge no one other than the Space Wolves routinely pick recruits beyond puberty, as the process tends to cause problems past that point. Women cannot become Space Marines as the geneseed is incompatible with their hormone levels and tissue types.

Should a recruit both be selected and then pass the very stringent trials that follow (a rare case - it is often said that only one in a thousand is worthy to be a Space Marine), the training regimen begins and the young recruit is implanted with various organs, one by one, over the course of his initial training. Again, how long this takes varies, but by the time the second last implant is inserted the chemicals and implants have made him something very different - a giant whose speed, strength, endurance, mind and soul all are superior to those of the humanity he protects.

A Space Marine has 19 additional organs in total, including a third lung, a second heart, a third kidney and a gland that lets him spit acid.

When it is time for the Space Marine - after many years of training - to take to the field, he does so as a Scout (with very few exceptions. notably Space Wolves, again). He serves as a scout, then earns his last implant (the Black Carapace), letting him neurally interface and control his suit of power armour. He then becomes a devastator, then an assault marine and finally, after having mastered close combat, ranged combat and stealth, he becomes a tactical marine, using his skills for optimal flexibility.

I see, thanks for this.
But what about the more specialised units, like tank pilots, bikers, land speeder drivers etc. Where do they come in?
Also, what about Termies? How does a marine become a terminator?

Trained on bikes as a scout.
Armoured crews I'm not so sure on

Terminators are veterans, you have to spend 100-200 or more years to earn the right to join the first company. And then must ne exceptional by marine standards.. They also train as vanguard and sternguard.
They are elite of elite. They deploy as required by the mission.

I thought they started as an assault marine as it was there they learned to temper their steroid fuelled rage before becoming a Dev?

Anyway, it should be noted that getting through the trials isn't the only dangerous part, many many many initiates die on the operating table or the implants are rejected, in which case if they survive they become chapter serfs if they are healthy, physically and mentally, or become servitors or disposed of if damaged during the procedures, the same goes for within the pre operating trials

 SixT4Pixels wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
Each Space Marine is picked from human male youths, those who show the greatest promise. Different chapters value different things in their recruits, pick them at different ages, use different recruitment methods and use different trials to find the worthy among them, but strength of body and will is considered the most important in all cases, and to my knowledge no one other than the Space Wolves routinely pick recruits beyond puberty, as the process tends to cause problems past that point. Women cannot become Space Marines as the geneseed is incompatible with their hormone levels and tissue types.

Should a recruit both be selected and then pass the very stringent trials that follow (a rare case - it is often said that only one in a thousand is worthy to be a Space Marine), the training regimen begins and the young recruit is implanted with various organs, one by one, over the course of his initial training. Again, how long this takes varies, but by the time the second last implant is inserted the chemicals and implants have made him something very different - a giant whose speed, strength, endurance, mind and soul all are superior to those of the humanity he protects.

A Space Marine has 19 additional organs in total, including a third lung, a second heart, a third kidney and a gland that lets him spit acid.

When it is time for the Space Marine - after many years of training - to take to the field, he does so as a Scout (with very few exceptions. notably Space Wolves, again). He serves as a scout, then earns his last implant (the Black Carapace), letting him neurally interface and control his suit of power armour. He then becomes a devastator, then an assault marine and finally, after having mastered close combat, ranged combat and stealth, he becomes a tactical marine, using his skills for optimal flexibility.

I see, thanks for this.
But what about the more specialised units, like tank pilots, bikers, land speeder drivers etc. Where do they come in?
Also, what about Termies? How does a marine become a terminator?

All Scouts are trained in mounted warfare and service in Scout Bike squads are the last stage of Scout training.
All members of the 6th Company and all Assault Marines are also expected to maintain bike skills and in battle companies its the Assault Marines who ride bikes in lieu of Jump Packs.
All members of the 7th Company and Assault Marines also pilot Land Speeders.
Terminators are members of the first company. All members of the first company recieve Terminator training but only a handful are given the honour of being permanent members of a squad due to limits on the number of suits. The rest train either as Sternguard or Vanguard squads.
To enter the first company is a great honour and there is no fixed way to enter. In the majority of codex chapters you generally have a better chance to enter Sternguard Squads, as the requirements are mastery of short ranged firefights and tactical precision. You basically need to be a super super Devastator or Tactical Marine but with skills of both.
Vanguard Veterans are usually chosen from the ranks of Assault Marines and are harder and easier to become as they require an utmost proficiency for melee. It means an Assault Marine could go his whole life without ever raised to first company, but a particularly skilled Assault Marine only 50 years into his career could be raised for his skill at arms, focused rage and other relevant skills.
The Dark Angels are somewhat different, they have Company Veterans who perform the same role as Sternguard Veterans but without the Special Ammo and less stringent requirements. They instead have Deathwing who are all Terminators and members of the Inner Circle, and are tasked with hunting the fallen at the expense of all other tasks although will be deployed like regular Terminators otherwise. They also have the Ravenwing 2nd Company who do the same role but in bikes, Land Speeders and aircraft.
The Space Wolves have a different method as each Great Company is completely autonomous so the Company each have a squad of Veterans known as Wolf Guard who are chosen as they are the Wolf Lord's closest friends and trusted brothers. They serve as his personal guard with one nominated Wolf Guard Battle Leader who is both company champion, successor and 2nd in command while other Wolf Guard can be deployed as a unit, split up as leaders for other squads and can wear Terminator Armour.
Grey Knights are different entirely, with every Grey Knight needing to fully master Terminator Armour before being trusted with the weaker Power Armour, and must master everything entirely before they are finished training as Neophytes. The majority of their chapter and all their HQs except the Brotherhood Champion deploy in Terminator Armour.
As for vehicle pilots they are drawn from a pool of armoury servants who are full Space Marines who do not count towards the 1000 man "limit" and pilot everything from Land Raiders to Rhinos and Predators. The exception is the aforementioned Land Speeders and Stormravens and Stormtalons, who are shown by the models to be flown by Techmarines. Thunderhawks and Stormhawks I am not certain on but fluff suggests regular Marines pilot Thunderhawks, although with the majority of new fluff using Stormravens for most of the same roles I don't even know if Thunderhawks are still around.

Ian Watson's old novel Space Marine had a really good story of 3 hive gangers developing slowly into Marines.

The later book Imperial Fists (I forget the author) covered similar ground but not as well.

Ok then, thanks to all of you for your input.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
I thought they started as an assault marine as it was there they learned to temper their steroid fuelled rage before becoming a Dev?

That's only the Blood Angels and some of their Successors because of the Red Thirst. Other codex-compliant chapters typically start as Devs after become a full-fledged Astartes.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
I thought they started as an assault marine as it was there they learned to temper their steroid fuelled rage before becoming a Dev?

That's only the Blood Angels and some of their Successors because of the Red Thirst. Other codex-compliant chapters typically start as Devs after become a full-fledged Astartes.

Yeah, the typical progression in Codex chapters is:

- Neophyte (Still being implanted with organs)
- Scout
- Scout Biker
- Devastator Marine (only armed with bolter - calls shots for the heavy weapon bearers)
- Assault Marine
- Tactical Marine (must have mastered the previous two stages to advance: Tactical Marines are the elite of the non-Veteran Space Marines)

Then EITHER:
- Squad Sergeant (of any battle company squad)
OR
- 1st Company Veteran (Terminator, Sternguard, Vanguard)

Then:
- Veteran Sergeant (of any squad)
- Command Squad member
- Honour Guard (if sufficiently good)

Command Squad and Veteran Sergeants can go on to become Captains of their own company, and can then pass on to Chapter Master.

Bear in mind that most promotions beyond Tactical Marine occur as a result of the previous Space Marine dying - you can't become a Captain purely on merit.

But what about the more specialised units, like tank pilots, bikers, land speeder drivers etc. Where do they come in?

Sgt_Smudge's list above is the 'standard' promotion route. It should be noted that the Reserve companies (6-9) don't tend to be deployed in battle en masse. They protect the chapter fortress, and are sent out 'detached' as bolt-ons to the battle companies (2-5), who are the chapter's main fighting formations.

Reserve company units either act as replacements, or else are deployed as specialists - that's why one reserve company trains intensively on land speeders, whilst the other trains on bikes, and so on; the land speeders attached to a battle company will be crewed by reserve company marines.


Other than that, Terminators are a specific subset of veterans; the Crux Terminatus (the skull & cross on the shoulder) is an honour award which essentially means "qualified on terminator plate". It's unusual but theoretically possible to find a veteran - even a captain - not trained to wear terminator plate, because many chapters have few suits of the stuff.

Centurion warsuits, on the other hand, are so specialised that if you're going to pilot the things, then you essentially 'go career' to do so - their pilots are 8th and 9th company veterans (as opposed to 'Veterans') who've specialised in using the things, and been awarded Centurion Honours (the crossed gauntlets).

You can also get 'pulled off' the track for a couple of specialities.

Main battle tank crews are the most numerous exception. The Armoury has a few marines directly attached to it (the ultramarines have about fifty according to Chronus' entry) who specialise in manning tanks and artillery vehicles, and, to a lesser extent, pilots (more often a techmarine job, though)

Additional marines get picked out and trained up as techmarines, apothecaries, and chaplains.

Librarians are also winnowed out - latent psykers are probably identified during the pretty thorough psychic screening recruits get early in their selection.

locarno24 wrote:

But what about the more specialised units, like tank pilots, bikers, land speeder drivers etc. Where do they come in?

Other than that, Terminators are a specific subset of veterans; the Crux Terminatus (the skull & cross on the shoulder) is an honour award which essentially means "qualified on terminator plate". It's unusual but theoretically possible to find a veteran - even a captain - not trained to wear terminator plate, because many chapters have few suits of the stuff.

I thought all were trained in Terminator armour, you got honours for being deployed in combat within it? (And surviving)

I have a pertinent question related to this thread. Where do libraians come from? Are they aspirants who are tested positive for latent psychic abilities or psykers culled by the black ships and turned over to the Space Marines? Because if only one in a thousand potential recruits can become Space Marines they must go through a lot of Psykers of a -very- specific demographic just to build a decent Librarius. Which is perfectly sustainable if they recruit their Librarians from the wider Imperium but not so much if they recruit from exclusively their home worlds.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
I have a pertinent question related to this thread. Where do libraians come from? Are they aspirants who are tested positive for latent psychic abilities or psykers culled by the black ships and turned over to the Space Marines? Because if only one in a thousand potential recruits can become Space Marines they must go through a lot of Psykers of a -very- specific demographic just to build a decent Librarius. Which is perfectly sustainable if they recruit their Librarians from the wider Imperium but not so much if they recruit from exclusively their home worlds.

They are "regular" Space Marines that somewhere along the way show psychic capabilities. They are selected in similar ways to Chaplains and Techmarines, in that they are trained once they show an aptitude for the role. The Tome of Fire trilogy by Nick Kyme follows a Salamanders sergeant who is trained as a Librarian after almost half a century of serving as a Space Marine

endlesswaltz123 wrote:

locarno24 wrote:

But what about the more specialised units, like tank pilots, bikers, land speeder drivers etc. Where do they come in?

Other than that, Terminators are a specific subset of veterans; the Crux Terminatus (the skull & cross on the shoulder) is an honour award which essentially means "qualified on terminator plate". It's unusual but theoretically possible to find a veteran - even a captain - not trained to wear terminator plate, because many chapters have few suits of the stuff.

I thought all were trained in Terminator armour, you got honours for being deployed in combat within it? (And surviving)

I think you need to earn Terminator Honours just to wear it at all.

Indeed. Being awarded the Crux Terminatus gives you the right to wear tactical dreadnought plate.

Because if only one in a thousand potential recruits can become Space Marines they must go through a lot of Psykers of a -very- specific demographic just to build a decent Librarius.

True. But there is a certain overlap; any psyker is by definition going to be of superlative intelligence and willpower - so there won't be any 'latent' psykers with minor but ultimately useless non-abilities.

The Astartes don't specifically recruit a Librarius - that is, they don't go out looking for Psykers*. They recruit potential astartes neophytes, on the grounds of physical, mental and genetic aptitudes, and in the process of finding them, occasionally go "hey....turns out you're a psyker, too!"

Ultimately, it's never been made very clear what proportion of the Imperial population are psykers


* Exception for the Grey Knights. Who do need to recruit imperium-wide to maintain chapter strength.

Fun space wolf fact of the day.

They recruit off of Fenris by watching the local barbarians fight each other, and the ones that do the best in battle, even if they die, they recruit, and turn into space wolves, and becoming a space wolf is the Valhalla for them.

 Backspacehacker wrote:
Fun space wolf fact of the day.

They recruit off of Fenris by watching the local barbarians fight each other, and the ones that do the best in battle, even if they die, they recruit, and turn into space wolves, and becoming a space wolf is the Valhalla for them.

When you think about it that must make the people who fail extra disappointed if they don't die in the process of failing.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
I have a pertinent question related to this thread. Where do libraians come from? Are they aspirants who are tested positive for latent psychic abilities or psykers culled by the black ships and turned over to the Space Marines? Because if only one in a thousand potential recruits can become Space Marines they must go through a lot of Psykers of a -very- specific demographic just to build a decent Librarius. Which is perfectly sustainable if they recruit their Librarians from the wider Imperium but not so much if they recruit from exclusively their home worlds.

Per longstanding fluff on psykers in the Imperium, the Adeptus Astra Telepathica supplies the Astartes with psychic aspirants of the necessary age and sufficient physical and mental fortitude from the tithe gathered by the Blackships. More recent fluff-writers seem to contradict or forget this (Tigurius is specifically established as having been born on Macragge, for instance), but I seem to recall reading something recent-ish from BL in which it is mentioned that the Librarian is an outsider, not recruited from the same culture as his brothers.

Of course there's nothing to say Chapters can't look for psykers among their recruiting worlds' local population as well as getting their numbers topped-up by the Telepathica, who must also provide their astropaths etc.

pm713 wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
Fun space wolf fact of the day.

They recruit off of Fenris by watching the local barbarians fight each other, and the ones that do the best in battle, even if they die, they recruit, and turn into space wolves, and becoming a space wolf is the Valhalla for them.

When you think about it that must make the people who fail extra disappointed if they don't die in the process of failing.

I dont think they actually know thats whats happening, to them becoming a space wolf is heaven so eh.

 Backspacehacker wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
Fun space wolf fact of the day.

They recruit off of Fenris by watching the local barbarians fight each other, and the ones that do the best in battle, even if they die, they recruit, and turn into space wolves, and becoming a space wolf is the Valhalla for them.

When you think about it that must make the people who fail extra disappointed if they don't die in the process of failing.

I dont think they actually know thats whats happening, to them becoming a space wolf is heaven so eh.

They go through months of training before even getting geneseed. Safe to say they know what's happening.

pm713 wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
Fun space wolf fact of the day.

They recruit off of Fenris by watching the local barbarians fight each other, and the ones that do the best in battle, even if they die, they recruit, and turn into space wolves, and becoming a space wolf is the Valhalla for them.

When you think about it that must make the people who fail extra disappointed if they don't die in the process of failing.

I dont think they actually know thats whats happening, to them becoming a space wolf is heaven so eh.

They go through months of training before even getting geneseed. Safe to say they know what's happening.

I mean before they are picked to become a space wolf, when they are still fighting on the ground as vikings against each other haha.

 Backspacehacker wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
Fun space wolf fact of the day.

They recruit off of Fenris by watching the local barbarians fight each other, and the ones that do the best in battle, even if they die, they recruit, and turn into space wolves, and becoming a space wolf is the Valhalla for them.

When you think about it that must make the people who fail extra disappointed if they don't die in the process of failing.

I dont think they actually know thats whats happening, to them becoming a space wolf is heaven so eh.

They go through months of training before even getting geneseed. Safe to say they know what's happening.

I mean before they are picked to become a space wolf, when they are still fighting on the ground as vikings against each other haha.

Oh! Yeah then it's just some servant of the gods watching you fight at best.

The William King Space Wolf omnibus goes through this in great detail, following Ragnar Blackmane. It's a good read.

 Lord Fishface wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
I have a pertinent question related to this thread. Where do libraians come from? Are they aspirants who are tested positive for latent psychic abilities or psykers culled by the black ships and turned over to the Space Marines? Because if only one in a thousand potential recruits can become Space Marines they must go through a lot of Psykers of a -very- specific demographic just to build a decent Librarius. Which is perfectly sustainable if they recruit their Librarians from the wider Imperium but not so much if they recruit from exclusively their home worlds.

Per longstanding fluff on psykers in the Imperium, the Adeptus Astra Telepathica supplies the Astartes with psychic aspirants of the necessary age and sufficient physical and mental fortitude from the tithe gathered by the Blackships. More recent fluff-writers seem to contradict or forget this (Tigurius is specifically established as having been born on Macragge, for instance), but I seem to recall reading something recent-ish from BL in which it is mentioned that the Librarian is an outsider, not recruited from the same culture as his brothers.

Of course there's nothing to say Chapters can't look for psykers among their recruiting worlds' local population as well as getting their numbers topped-up by the Telepathica, who must also provide their astropaths etc.

Librarians are mentioned as being outsiders true, but that;s more due to their training taking them apart from the norm of the chapter. it's the same way with techmarines

 Lord Fishface wrote:

Per longstanding fluff on psykers in the Imperium, the Adeptus Astra Telepathica supplies the Astartes with psychic aspirants of the necessary age and sufficient physical and mental fortitude from the tithe gathered by the Blackships. More recent fluff-writers seem to contradict or forget this (Tigurius is specifically established as having been born on Macragge, for instance), but I seem to recall reading something recent-ish from BL in which it is mentioned that the Librarian is an outsider, not recruited from the same culture as his brothers.

Of course there's nothing to say Chapters can't look for psykers among their recruiting worlds' local population as well as getting their numbers topped-up by the Telepathica, who must also provide their astropaths etc.

I don't know about long-standing fluff.

Going back to the days of Ian Watson's novels, the first 40k novels, sometimes psykers are found among marines and aspirants. So the best answer is probably both. Many librarians are supplied from outside but others are found within the recruiting pool.

Since in 40k being a pskyer often gives you better physical stats, and since stress can bring forth previously unrealized psychic potential, it seems likely that there's an uncommonly high number of psykers among marine recruits.

Of course back in the day the Ultramarines had half-Eldar psykers too...

By reading all this, another question has come up; what's the average life expectancy of a regular Space Marine. If they go through all this training and promoting and what not, they'd be pretty old (by today's standards) right?

How old do they get?

How long is a piece of plot-string?

They don't - AFAIK - die of old age (indeed, I don't think they can, provided they receive the needed organ/implant maintenance) but given they tend to be the sword of the imperium, and that means fighting a lot, against many things that want them dead, I don't think many get to see "old age" - but the veterans are probably your grand-dad's age - but without his age-related frailties.
(They don't have the bone or joint related issues due to their alterations for example. So no arthritis, osteo, etc ).

There are the extremes of a couple of named characters who are in their many hundreds of years of age and still marines - and Bjorn-the fell handed, a space wolf dread, said to have walked as a man during the time of the emperor.
(dreadnought "pilots" tend to be put into stasis between missions, though, which extends their life, at the cost of a loss of continuity of existence).

Indeed.

Taking the example (as mentioned) of Sons of Dorn, the three Triandran aspirants are picked up from a battlefield at age.....not entirely clear but maybe thirteen or fourteen.

They get through aspirant training/selection/medicae checks/etc in a couple of years, which is sufficient to get them to 'neophyte' at which point implants start happening.

The end of Sons of Dorn is about ten years after this point, at which point they actually get promoted to battle-brothers (in a reserve company).


The average life expectancy of astartes..... never made exactly clear but generally a few centuries. Dante and Cleutan are supposed to be the oldest astartes not in a dreadnought at ~1,000 years old.

It's not uncommon for veterans and captains to be described as having "centuries" of experience, so a few decades in a reserve company, and another century or so in a battle company before ending up in a 'speciality' - (Veteran Company, Armoury, Reserve Company Specialists, etc) sounds about right.

No Space Marine has ever died of old age to my knowledge, and it remains to be seen whether they actually can.

Naturally, despite their survivability in the field, the sheer risk of their job means there is a limit to their lifespan in practice.

Chaos Space Marines, on the other hand, are often far older than the loyalists, as the raiding nature of their warfare means they generally do not have to fight battles where they are at a disadvantage. While the vagaries of time within the warp is a factor for many, at least some have experienced ten millennia (which means they are that old) and as the warp sometimes extends time rather than shortens it some may be even older!