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So the new edition is about a year or so out - possibly sooner but we just had numerous supplements that change the game. Death from the Skies and the boxed flier kits all change the rules incorporating minor off table dogfights.

I want to pick up two nightwings for the Eldar for FW but Death from the Skies have NO RULES for them - making them technically illegal. The rules are the total mess right now with HALF the Forgeworld 40k models having outdated obsolete rules.

With EVERYTHING possibly changing soon with 8th edition is it worth buying any fliers at all? Will they incorporate death from the skies into the main rulebook but if so when will the FW fliers get a datasheet?

This is such Bull **** I am not happy about the state of the rules right now. For Mk III for warmachine PP managed to cleanly update EVERYTHING at once at launch cleanly.

How does DftS make flyers illegal?

I tend to get models cause I like the look of them. Get the nightwings cause they look cool and that you'd love to paint them. Ask your opponent if you can use old flier rules cause of whole update not being rolled out all at once, or if you play with a constant group, house rule some updated rules for the nightwing. It's not perfect but part of this game is talking with your opponents.

Also, I recently bought some fliers, a stormrave, two stromtalons, and a stormhawk kit, that I plan to build and still have fun with. Do I think I'll use them all the time? No, but I like being able to run some formations and having a gunship come in and drop off a payload is pretty cool and fluffy for my marines.

pm713 wrote:
How does DftS make flyers illegal?

Death from the Skies has zero rules for anything FW. It's like they pretend they don't exist. My playgroup has adopted it and so Nightwings cannot participate.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Carnith wrote:
I tend to get models cause I like the look of them. Get the nightwings cause they look cool and that you'd love to paint them. Ask your opponent if you can use old flier rules cause of whole update not being rolled out all at once, or if you play with a constant group, house rule some updated rules for the nightwing. It's not perfect but part of this game is talking with your opponents.

Also, I recently bought some fliers, a stormrave, two stromtalons, and a stormhawk kit, that I plan to build and still have fun with. Do I think I'll use them all the time? No, but I like being able to run some formations and having a gunship come in and drop off a payload is pretty cool and fluffy for my marines.

Nightwings are "cool" but they also have some of the best rules for Fliers in 40k. They are probably the best flier for Eldar in the game.

DorianGray wrote:

pm713 wrote:
How does DftS make flyers illegal?

Death from the Skies has zero rules for anything FW. It's like they pretend they don't exist. My playgroup has adopted it and so Nightwings cannot participate.


/quote]
Why does that stop them being played? Why can't you adapt its rules to the supplement? Why can't you just ask not to use it if it doesn't allow them to be used?

DorianGray wrote:
So the new edition is about a year or so out - possibly sooner but we just had numerous supplements that change the game. Death from the Skies and the boxed flier kits all change the rules incorporating minor off table dogfights.

I want to pick up two nightwings for the Eldar for FW but Death from the Skies have NO RULES for them - making them technically illegal. The rules are the total mess right now with HALF the Forgeworld 40k models having outdated obsolete rules.

With EVERYTHING possibly changing soon with 8th edition is it worth buying any fliers at all? Will they incorporate death from the skies into the main rulebook but if so when will the FW fliers get a datasheet?

This is such Bull **** I am not happy about the state of the rules right now. For Mk III for warmachine PP managed to cleanly update EVERYTHING at once at launch cleanly.

nobody has answers to these questions. The rules across the board are total garbage with 40k these days, and nobody has any idea how they will look in the future, but signs point towards more of the same.


That said, given the state of the Pound, there probably has never been a better time to buy FW products if you are outside the UK.

DorianGray wrote:
So the new edition is about a year or so out - possibly sooner but we just had numerous supplements that change the game.

Every rumor source that has ever been right about GW has indicated that the new edition is three or four months away, not a year. I am inclined to believe them more strongly because of all of the new supplements, rules and errata. This is how 1st edition ended, it's how 2nd edition ended, it's how specialist games like Gorkamorka ended, and it's how WHFB ended. GW releases a flood of new rules and books right before they kill a game or an edition, because they want to milk the old edition for all it's worth and they know tournament players will be forced to buy the rules even if they're only valid for a few weeks.

I would strongly advise against buying any 40K (and maybe 30K) products, models or rules until the new edition is out. I assume the old codex books will still be valid (as with 6th edition) but I honestly would prefer if GW released another "get you by" codex-substitute covering all armies like at the beginning of 2nd and 3rd editions. They need to reboot the whole codex cycle.

Ask your group if they're OK playing games against you without DftS, if not ask if it's OK to use it as a Fighter with Pursuit and Agility of 5 because thats almost certainly what it's going to have when FW gets around to giving their flyers rules for DftS. Failing that ask for them not to use flyers against you as that at least keeps you on a level playing ground. If they still wont co-operate point out their obstinance is making them TFG's.

 Real News wrote:

DorianGray wrote:
So the new edition is about a year or so out - possibly sooner but we just had numerous supplements that change the game.

Every rumor source that has ever been right about GW has indicated that the new edition is three or four months away, not a year. I am inclined to believe them more strongly because of all of the new supplements, rules and errata. This is how 1st edition ended, it's how 2nd edition ended, it's how specialist games like Gorkamorka ended, and it's how WHFB ended. GW releases a flood of new rules and books right before they kill a game or an edition, because they want to milk the old edition for all it's worth and they know tournament players will be forced to buy the rules even if they're only valid for a few weeks.

I would strongly advise against buying any 40K (and maybe 30K) products, models or rules until the new edition is out. I assume the old codex books will still be valid (as with 6th edition) but I honestly would prefer if GW released another "get you by" codex-substitute covering all armies like at the beginning of 2nd and 3rd editions. They need to reboot the whole codex cycle.

Not true. Sad Panda, the only source who seems to be right on a regular basis, has said 8th wont be out until next year at the earliest.

I say buy it. I personally treat FW pieces as display models more than actual game pieces. They're too gorgeous anyways to bang up constantly on the tabletop.

So far I've not met anyone who wanted to use the flowchart Dfts addon. Besides, FW modeks are awesome and will look great in your display case, regardless of any temporary rules situation.

 Imateria wrote:
Not true. Sad Panda, the only source who seems to be right on a regular basis, has said 8th wont be out until next year at the earliest.

Never heard of them. I rely on tried and trusted sources with established reputations, and my sources have generally been right for the past 20 years. Of course you're saying it's 5 months away, not 3 or 4. Not much of a difference, but it would make a lot more sense for GW to try to get the new edition out before Christmas. As I've stated, the glut of new rules means it's very likely. This is how GW works, and if you've followed them for more than a couple of years you'll understand that.

I think given the Escalation-7th correlation there is a good chance the bulk of DFTS will be incorporated into 8th.

DorianGray wrote:
So the new edition is about a year or so out - possibly sooner but we just had numerous supplements that change the game. Death from the Skies and the boxed flier kits all change the rules incorporating minor off table dogfights.

I want to pick up two nightwings for the Eldar for FW but Death from the Skies have NO RULES for them - making them technically illegal. The rules are the total mess right now with HALF the Forgeworld 40k models having outdated obsolete rules.

With EVERYTHING possibly changing soon with 8th edition is it worth buying any fliers at all? Will they incorporate death from the skies into the main rulebook but if so when will the FW fliers get a datasheet?

This is such Bull **** I am not happy about the state of the rules right now. For Mk III for warmachine PP managed to cleanly update EVERYTHING at once at launch cleanly.

You are not playing chess, or doing a professional competition: it is only a game ! And, as GW tells us everytime they can, you should speak with your opponents, etc...
FW flyers aren't illegals, they may not fit into the Dfts supplement, but that's all.

Use the agility etc of the Eldar's flyers in the book when needed (dogfights IIRC).

Sad Panda is, since the day I began to care about rumors, the most accurate source I have ever known, and if he says "not before a year at least", you should be fine.

Why are people so obsessed with the rules as written of a "beer and bretzel" game when the company itself tells us to take it easy ?

I'm having exact same thoughts: what if they become obsolete? What if FW decides to make plastic T-Bolt? What if...But then there's the "what if some of tanks will go away like Macharius Omega did?" - that monster goes for 200 quid on ebay atm. So if you have the cash, I would sai less stress - moar resin crack

I'm glad my gaming group don't want to play with the DftS rules. It seems as if its making an already convoluted game more of a mess.

It already takes us 4-5 hours to complete a 2k game, i'm not trying to tack on another hour to that with dog fighting fliers.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Nobody has answers to these questions. The rules across the board are total garbage with 40k these days, and nobody has any idea how they will look in the future, but signs point towards more of the same.

That said, given the state of the Pound, there probably has never been a better time to buy FW products if you are outside the UK.

^This. Its never been a better time to purchase models from FW. That said, the game itself probably has never been in a worse state. Its pretty much unplayable unless you have a small niche group & house rule all of the poor decisions GW has made in the past 2 editions. I don't see anything changing with the release of 8th edition.

Until they resolve the issues within the codex's themselves (You know, like 1/2 of the current armies not even being viable), there is no hope for creating a competitive or even remotely balanced ruleset.

 Real News wrote:

I would strongly advise against buying any 40K (and maybe 30K) products, models or rules until the new edition is out. I assume the old codex books will still be valid (as with 6th edition) but I honestly would prefer if GW released another "get you by" codex-substitute covering all armies like at the beginning of 2nd and 3rd editions. They need to reboot the whole codex cycle.

Bah. I recently started buying GW models again after year hiatus. Thanks to pound crashing it's cheap and who cares about current official rules when 2nd edition with it's superior rules exists

Do people still buy from fw? I thought it was all Russian recasts these days.

If you're not in the UK, might as well. What with the pound crashing and all.

But if you were, I would move quickly, since the appointment of Theresa May as PM has caused the pound to start to rise in value.

hobojebus wrote:
Do people still buy from fw? I thought it was all Russian recasts these days.

I've seen a couple squads of recasts in person. I've seen hundreds of thousands of points of legit FW models fielded. Maybe you live on the wrong side of the tracks.

I'd advise to stay clear from Tau and Ad Mech models until IA14 goes out.

I have seen no one using that new flyer book even when I was in a GW.

DorianGray wrote:

pm713 wrote:
How does DftS make flyers illegal?

Death from the Skies has zero rules for anything FW. It's like they pretend they don't exist. My playgroup has adopted it and so Nightwings cannot participate.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Carnith wrote:
I tend to get models cause I like the look of them. Get the nightwings cause they look cool and that you'd love to paint them. Ask your opponent if you can use old flier rules cause of whole update not being rolled out all at once, or if you play with a constant group, house rule some updated rules for the nightwing. It's not perfect but part of this game is talking with your opponents.

Also, I recently bought some fliers, a stormrave, two stromtalons, and a stormhawk kit, that I plan to build and still have fun with. Do I think I'll use them all the time? No, but I like being able to run some formations and having a gunship come in and drop off a payload is pretty cool and fluffy for my marines.

Nightwings are "cool" but they also have some of the best rules for Fliers in 40k. They are probably the best flier for Eldar in the game.

*Cough* No one uses DftS *Cough*Even our local GW store does not enforce it*Cough*Everyone know 30 bucks for units that hardly get used is worth it *Cough* not many people run flyers any way *Cough*

Oh mercy me sorry, damn allergies kick my ass again

Few models become obsolete but some do.
The only ones you can "count on" are usually ones that have a new plastic steel mold and are not resin parts.
I agree with others that Forge World kits look awesome and "rule of cool" should get some use out of it with your local group.
I am unsure why other groups can have a dislike for FW stuff: it looks good and the person spent enough money: why discourage using them?

DFTS has not had much of an impact here at my local meta and seems largely ignored at the moment.
That is how the cookie crumbles when GW does not host tournaments.

 Talizvar wrote:
Few models become obsolete but some do.
The only ones you can "count on" are usually ones that have a new plastic steel mold and are not resin parts.
I agree with others that Forge World kits look awesome and "rule of cool" should get some use out of it with your local group.
I am unsure why other groups can have a dislike for FW stuff: it looks good and the person spent enough money: why discourage using them?

DFTS has not had much of an impact here at my local meta and seems largely ignored at the moment.
That is how the cookie crumbles when GW does not host tournaments.

The usual dislike of forge world stuff is normally they are a bit more tuned for their price and come off as OP a lot of the times, unless you have an equal forge world model to fight back with.

 Backspacehacker wrote:

 Talizvar wrote:
Few models become obsolete but some do.
The only ones you can "count on" are usually ones that have a new plastic steel mold and are not resin parts.
I agree with others that Forge World kits look awesome and "rule of cool" should get some use out of it with your local group.
I am unsure why other groups can have a dislike for FW stuff: it looks good and the person spent enough money: why discourage using them?

DFTS has not had much of an impact here at my local meta and seems largely ignored at the moment.
That is how the cookie crumbles when GW does not host tournaments.

The usual dislike of forge world stuff is normally they are a bit more tuned for their price and come off as OP a lot of the times, unless you have an equal forge world model to fight back with.

That might have been true in the past but these days the really broken stuff is flat out from regular codex. FW has got the game designers who actually can design with SOME semblance of balance. Or they don't have as much dictatorship from guys above in C&C.

 Backspacehacker wrote:

 Talizvar wrote:
Few models become obsolete but some do.
The only ones you can "count on" are usually ones that have a new plastic steel mold and are not resin parts.
I agree with others that Forge World kits look awesome and "rule of cool" should get some use out of it with your local group.
I am unsure why other groups can have a dislike for FW stuff: it looks good and the person spent enough money: why discourage using them?

DFTS has not had much of an impact here at my local meta and seems largely ignored at the moment.
That is how the cookie crumbles when GW does not host tournaments.

The usual dislike of forge world stuff is normally they are a bit more tuned for their price and come off as OP a lot of the times, unless you have an equal forge world model to fight back with.

most of the "op" feeling was rooted in people simply not having any real idea of what was going on (either people bringing FW models and essentially using made-up rules, or people thinking FW always = Titans) and in general FW stuff doesnt measure up to normal codex power levels, *especially* in 7E. One will notice that at large tournaments that dont restrict FW, FW stuff hardly appears at all in the top placing armies.

Edited by Moderator: Please do not discuss recasting on Dakka Dakka. Thanks!

Reminder that recast of GW product is illegal never mind unethical.

It is possible for ANYONE to make a mold of any given object with fantastic detail but someone made the original model from scratch or paid for advertising or made the codex that makes it "worth" having... just say no.

That was a paid-for public announcement by GW lawyers who also like to be paid.

hobojebus wrote:
Edited by Moderator: Please do not discuss recasting on Dakka Dakka. Thanks!

Some people do have ethics though. And want to keep designers doing new models. FW can never ever ever compete with recasters in price for obvious reasons. No matter how much they might want it's 100% impossible for them to match recasters for price. DUCY?