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I normally am not interested in Undead-related things, but I recently have been watching Walking Dead and read some of the fluff for these guys... and it's starting to grow on me, I think. I like how they are delusional and think they are not cannibalistic subhuman degenerates; something about the concept of a noble, mighty king (a hideous Ghoul-King) leading his heroic army (decayed, insane degenerate cannibals) against "invaders" while in reality they are slaughtering innocent people begging for mercy and devouring their corpses is really intriguing from a tragic fluff standpoint.

How does this army actually play in the game?

Let me put it this way... They are what I wish my 40k Tyranids played like. :-p

Their core is built around a giant, easy to replenish horde of Ghouls. They're decent cannon fodder (who can be surprisingly killy) who will just stay on the table forever as you'll keep adding models back.

They're supporting by some really fun "elite" heavy hitters who will be replenished at a slower rate, but that potentially just keep coming back as well.

And all of them are made notably better by sticking close to their hero models who are both buffing and contributing directly.

A very, very fun army only lacking in shooting... like, almost completely. :-p

So basically, a swarm with extras? Apologies, I haven't played Warhammer in like 15 years so I only have a vague recollection of anything.

Swarm of ghouls, lots (?) of heroes, then elite monsters?

What would be a good way to start this army? King Whathisface's court box (boxed army for like ~$180) and a box or three of ghouls?

Well, it needs to be pointed out but the ghouls aren't undead for some reason now. Though they still look undead to me so

It should also be pointed out that they're getting a start collecting box soon which will be 1 Terrorghiest, 3 crypt horrors and 10 ghouls; which I guess would go nice with that other bundle you mentioned.

That Count Vigorescu's Court box is possibly the best "deal" GW offers across its entire company right now. Personally I bought two as it gives you a ton of options in building things, and playing more "elite" armies.

A viable way to go would be loads of Terrorgeists, and the Crypt Horrors, Flayers, etc... and just go hard hitting. Its just too tempting to go the route of Ghouls holding the middle of a table indefinitely. :-p

 n0t_u wrote:
Well, it needs to be pointed out but the ghouls aren't undead for some reason now. Though they still look undead to me so

It should also be pointed out that they're getting a start collecting box soon which will be 1 Terrorghiest, 3 crypt horrors and 10 ghouls; which I guess would go nice with that other bundle you mentioned.

Spoiler:

No of course they aren't. They are proud, noble soldiers! Rancid knave! Decrepit scoundrel! Putrid dog!

Seriously though, they seem pretty interesting. Definitely different. The fluff though is killer from the bit I've read.

I love their fluff probably the most out of all the factions, just not so much the models at the moment. They were also heavily played a bit when I was getting started with AoS so I've put them aside for now, maybe I'll get to them later though.

 n0t_u wrote:
I love their fluff probably the most out of all the factions, just not so much the models at the moment. They were also heavily played a bit when I was getting started with AoS so I've put them aside for now, maybe I'll get to them later though.

I like how the fluff is basically unique, it's not cliched bloody skulls dripping blood because blood, or perfect noble Sigmarine nobility. It's tragic and horrifying at the same time. I vaguely recall similar in the old old old (circa 4th edition?) Undead book that said the inhabitants of Khemri would go about their lives as though they weren't really dead, but that could have been my young imagination at that point in time.

What exactly is their background? How is is tragic?

Laughatdo0m wrote:
What exactly is their background? How is is tragic?

They're all filled with this dellusion when around a ghoul king so that they all see and honestly believe that they're these really noble knights and heroes. Like to the point that their nest may be this giant rotting carcass of some beast, but to them they see it as this glorious castle.

Essentially they think they're the nobles of bretonnia, but while not actually being that.
Likewise they see everyone else as the twisted monstrosities they actually are.

As somewhat of a sidenote, Ghouls were never true undead even going back to WHFB. They were described as being somewhere in-between, and being 'undead-enough' to act more like unliving soldiers than living ones. Of course go back far enough (6th ed Vampire counts) and they were actually classified as living models.

 n0t_u wrote:

Laughatdo0m wrote:
What exactly is their background? How is is tragic?

They're all filled with this dellusion when around a ghoul king so that they all see and honestly believe that they're these really noble knights and heroes. Like to the point that their nest may be this giant rotting carcass of some beast, but to them they see it as this glorious castle.

Essentially they think they're the nobles of bretonnia, but while not actually being that.
Likewise they see everyone else as the twisted monstrosities they actually are.

Ha! Thats pretty good. Reminds me of the Meet the Pyro TF2 video a bit.

Laughatdo0m wrote:
What exactly is their background? How is is tragic?

They are insane, they see themselves as noble soldiers and courtesans of a mighty king, while they are subhuman degenerates sitting around gnawing bones, chewing rotten meat and drinking blood. I find that tragic in a way because in their eyes, they don't see that. A Ghoul King on his rotted dragon sees himself as a mighty lordling clad in gleaming armour, riding a mighty beast. His enemies are invaders and other evil villains, his soldiers stand at his side, when in reality the throng descends on a hapless village, slaughtering people begging for mercy and trying futilely to fend off these ravening monsters.

It's delusionally delicious. It brings to my mind the basest of human instincts and the notion that what if everything you perceive around you is a figment of your imagination? The mind copes with things in strange ways. A disfigured, monstrous "king" sitting in a throne made from bones in a ruined castle, decaying corpses strewn about, all the while thinking himself a grandoise lord holding court touches something primal in me. It brings to mind, of all things, an old Garfield comic strip for a halloween edition or something, that was basically the concept that Garfield is starving in an abandoned house, and everything in his world is a figment of his imagination while trying to cope with it.

My brother was playing a video game a little while ago called Bloodborne. This is relevant because while he was playing, we commented that it's odd the enemies call your character a monster sometimes upon dying, but look slightly monstrous themselves while your character looks normal. I mentioned it would be an interesting concept for a game if the protagonist was really the monster, but was mad/delusional and saw themselves as this noble hero, while everything around them were monsters so while they were murdering innocent people, they viewed it as slaying monsters. Having read some Flesh-Eater fluff, that's exactly what they are!

So how did this insanity disease or whatever actually originate?

Tailessine wrote:
So how did this insanity disease or whatever actually originate?

The fluff says the original king was cursed by Neferata and/or Nagash for some reason, it's a bit vague. Also it seems that the courts use the same names/titles (which are... interesting to say the least e.g. "Marquis Gruelsop", "Lord Marrowbroth", "Baron Gizzard" "Giblet Prince", "Offal Queen") in a mockery of the original king's followers, but it's not clear if that's just the hierarchy of one court, or if all of them have those titles.

WayneTheGame wrote:

Tailessine wrote:
So how did this insanity disease or whatever actually originate?

The fluff says the original king was cursed by Neferata and/or Nagash for some reason, it's a bit vague. Also it seems that the courts use the same names/titles (which are... interesting to say the least e.g. "Marquis Gruelsop", "Lord Marrowbroth", "Baron Gizzard" "Giblet Prince", "Offal Queen") in a mockery of the original king's followers, but it's not clear if that's just the hierarchy of one court, or if all of them have those titles.

Well yeah the original king is Ushoran, he was back to his normal self again after the destruction of the world that was, He had the favor of nagash and of course neferata being neferata she cursed him they don't say the details why but he caught her scorn and cursed his appearance. To look similar to the vampire ghoul kings we all know. Now of course this appearance change did not go down well with him and started acting like a priss.

Which also annoyed nagash, so nagash imprisoned him in something called the shroud cage, which in turn caused him to go insane and during nagash's first "betrayel" sigmar rampaged across his realm breaking the cage and letting him loose. Of course there were loads of downtrodden people from war so as any good king should do he began "feeding" them. His madness slowly effecting them and each vampire he made this madness was passed on and so on and so forth.

Nagash is currently looking for him and is looking to bring the flesh courts under heel. They note nagash's more lucid generals and lieutenants have trouble using them, what's quite interesting is that mannfred has no problem using them perhaps it's because he knows ghoul language to get the normal ghouls and knows how to "insert" himself into the madness of a ghoul court(according to the audio drama) hence being able to manipulate and use them.

The Carrion King was insane for a long time before getting imprissoned though. He had courts running amok before his imprissonment. He most likely became insane gradually because of the curse. Having been a normal quite powerfull vampire before, even written that he might have been one of Nagash his Motarchhs.

Ghouls start out as cannibalistic humans that try to survive in wartorn places. Their cries are heard by the kings. Who in turn shows up with his court, initiating them. The Ghoul King infects them with his insanity. But it depends on ones willpower on how long it takes to submit. Once initiated they are Mordant Ghouls (Still human). If lucky they get to drink the Ghoul Kings blood, turning them into Horrors and other beasties, eventually one may be able to become a Ghoul King themself.

These guys mostly live inside ruined castles and keeps (seeing them as beautifull castles) or are nomads.

 The Grumpy Eldar wrote:
The Carrion King was insane for a long time before getting imprissoned though. He had courts running amok before his imprissonment. He most likely became insane gradually because of the curse. Having been a normal quite powerfull vampire before, even written that he might have been one of Nagash his Motarchhs.

Ghouls start out as cannibalistic humans that try to survive in wartorn places. Their cries are heard by the kings. Who in turn shows up with his court, initiating them. The Ghoul King infects them with his insanity. But it depends on ones willpower on how long it takes to submit. Once initiated they are Mordant Ghouls (Still human). If lucky they get to drink the Ghoul Kings blood, turning them into Horrors and other beasties, eventually one may be able to become a Ghoul King themself.

These guys mostly live inside ruined castles and keeps (seeing them as beautifull castles) or are nomads.

Nah in the battle tome they mention it was mainly his appearance being cursed by neferata and the shroud cage that caused Ushoran's insanity. They only said that he had nagash's favor not that he was a mortarch whether that means he bears that title is another discussion all together. They note that he actually was a king back then and had knights and was beautiful etc. Nagash wants to find him and use his blood to make the courts that have not bend the knee to do so.

They normally turn ghouls or those they find interesting to add their court, horrors and infernal's etc are already blessed with his blood or with the meat of dragons. There is a story of one turning a chaos lord after a hard battle.

I love everything about their reimagining and am getting ready to sell/trade my backlog of NiB minis to dive in headfirst on a collection of these nobles. Highlight of AoS for me thus far.

 shinros wrote:


Nah in the battle tome they mention it was mainly his appearance being cursed by neferata and the shroud cage that caused Ushoran's insanity. They only said that he had nagash's favor not that he was a mortarch whether that means he bears that title is another discussion all together. They note that he actually was a king back then and had knights and was beautiful etc. Nagash wants to find him and use his blood to make the courts that have not bend the knee to do so.

They normally turn ghouls or those they find interesting to add their court, horrors and infernal's etc are already blessed with his blood or with the meat of dragons. There is a story of one turning a chaos lord after a hard battle.

There are multiple contradicting stories about him in the battletome. Neferatas story and that of Nagash. One of the stories does talk about him having been a Motarch. I literally got these stories from their battletome.

 The Grumpy Eldar wrote:

 shinros wrote:


Nah in the battle tome they mention it was mainly his appearance being cursed by neferata and the shroud cage that caused Ushoran's insanity. They only said that he had nagash's favor not that he was a mortarch whether that means he bears that title is another discussion all together. They note that he actually was a king back then and had knights and was beautiful etc. Nagash wants to find him and use his blood to make the courts that have not bend the knee to do so.

They normally turn ghouls or those they find interesting to add their court, horrors and infernal's etc are already blessed with his blood or with the meat of dragons. There is a story of one turning a chaos lord after a hard battle.

There are multiple contradicting stories about him in the battletome. Neferatas story and that of Nagash. One of the stories does talk about him having been a Motarch. I literally got these stories from their battletome.

There are multiple facets of the story that contradict each other, which are there to underscore the fact that no one really knows save Nagash.

So in delving a bit more into how much I love the fluff, I found the Garfield comic that I thought of (search for something like "garfield halloween comic", it will come up). The final line of it, I think, sums FEC up for me and all but seals the deal that I want to start an army of them:

An imagination is a powerful tool. It can tint memories of the past, shape perceptions of the present, or paint a future so vidid that it can entice... or terrify, all depending upon how we conduct ourselves today...

The FEC live in a delusional world that is tinted by their twisted imagination, perhaps due to being unable to cope with reality.

And that is freaking awesome.