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So, I've heard that in the new legiones astartes book that chain axes are +1S. Is this true? Are they still AP4? Who has access to them besides World Eaters? Anyone? Questions! Thanks!!

Yes, S+1, still ap4.

Whoah, world eaters just got brutal.
Does anyone else have access to them?

SoH Reaver Squads have access to them under their options.

also brutal

Blackshield marauders have the option, which ridiculously is free.

so brutal!!

World Eaters got a really nice boost from this. Add in the fact that Assault Marines and Tactical Squads got cheaper and they really come out ahead. Take Surlak and make your Tacticals Augmented Inductii for some S6 goodness!

That would be particularly nasty to do. What with them having 81 S6 AP4 Attacks on the charge.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
That would be particularly nasty to do. What with them having 81 S6 AP4 Attacks on the charge.

Factor in Hatred and wound rerolls of 1, and things get really silly. Meaning amazing.

You can get over 100 attacks if you had an attached apothecary use the Exhortation of Butchery with hatred and reroll 1s to wound.

Played vs some WE this weekend and a 15 man assault squad with CAs and 1 PF hurts real bad.

Yeah, this makes blackshields seem like a brutal hand to hand option. S6 and 3 attacks each if you use the chymeridae rule, they're only 15.25 points each if you take a full squad of 20 and five of em can have power weapons. I don't know what (of equal points) could take that down.

 gorgon wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
That would be particularly nasty to do. What with them having 81 S6 AP4 Attacks on the charge.

Factor in Hatred and wound rerolls of 1, and things get really silly. Meaning amazing.

Yup...S6 Inductii, wounding on 2s, rerolling 1s. I usually run Crimson Path though, and so with Surlak they get 3+++ instead of Hatred. Naaaaasty.

 KharnsRightHand wrote:

 gorgon wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
That would be particularly nasty to do. What with them having 81 S6 AP4 Attacks on the charge.

Factor in Hatred and wound rerolls of 1, and things get really silly. Meaning amazing.

Yup...S6 Inductii, wounding on 2s, rerolling 1s. I usually run Crimson Path though, and so with Surlak they get 3+++ instead of Hatred. Naaaaasty.

Inductii won't have a 3+ fnp since they can't be joined by ics

 snykyninja wrote:

 KharnsRightHand wrote:

 gorgon wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
That would be particularly nasty to do. What with them having 81 S6 AP4 Attacks on the charge.

Factor in Hatred and wound rerolls of 1, and things get really silly. Meaning amazing.

Yup...S6 Inductii, wounding on 2s, rerolling 1s. I usually run Crimson Path though, and so with Surlak they get 3+++ instead of Hatred. Naaaaasty.

Inductii won't have a 3+ fnp since they can't be joined by ics

They can be joined by Surlak himself.

 Walnuts wrote:
Yeah, this makes blackshields seem like a brutal hand to hand option. S6 and 3 attacks each if you use the chymeridae rule, they're only 15.25 points each if you take a full squad of 20 and five of em can have power weapons. I don't know what (of equal points) could take that down.

Phosphex Quad Launchers.

In melee, homie. You phosphex launchers can't cap points and won't help you much if they roll up to your grill in a spartan or a flyer (even with the extra points that that would cost thrown into mortars).

Iron Tyrants
Give them a master of signal and a siege breaker or perty and a siege breaker and start giggling.

 Walnuts wrote:
In melee, homie. You phosphex launchers can't cap points and won't help you much if they roll up to your grill in a spartan or a flyer (even with the extra points that that would cost thrown into mortars).

So your caveat is that they make it into combat. See, that is a different scenario. It is a horrifying prospect to see 20 dudes kitted out max on CC roll out of a Spartan. I expect I will get a similar effect once I get my World Eaters done up.

 King Amroth wrote:
Iron Tyrants
Give them a master of signal and a siege breaker or perty and a siege breaker and start giggling.

Again, in hand to hand. When someone says something like "S6 and 3 attacks each if you use the chymeridae rule, they're only 15.25 points each" pretty safe to say they're talking hand to hand. Otherwise, spoiler, you don't even have to get creative, there are a ton of units that could beat that if it exists in a vaccuum where they're just target practice. One Xiphon interceptor could 'beat' them, since they wouldn't be able to touch it.

This is a game where you need to cap points, require troops, even one troop model hiding out of sight in a ruin can get you a point, and if you're going get your enemy's points, you're probably going to need to do some krumpin'.

So yes, TO CLARIFY, point for point, in hand to hand combat (a not uncommon scenario), as opposed to a terrain-less shooting gallery with no supporting units (an almost impossible scenario), I don't know what could take those down, let alone what troop choice could take them down.

 Walnuts wrote:
One Xiphon interceptor could 'beat' them, since they wouldn't be able to touch it.

Not true, they have kraks.

 Walnuts wrote:

 King Amroth wrote:
Iron Tyrants
Give them a master of signal and a siege breaker or perty and a siege breaker and start giggling.

Again, in hand to hand. When someone says something like "S6 and 3 attacks each if you use the chymeridae rule, they're only 15.25 points each" pretty safe to say they're talking hand to hand. Otherwise, spoiler, you don't even have to get creative, there are a ton of units that could beat that if it exists in a vaccuum where they're just target practice. One Xiphon interceptor could 'beat' them, since they wouldn't be able to touch it.

This is a game where you need to cap points, require troops, even one troop model hiding out of sight in a ruin can get you a point, and if you're going get your enemy's points, you're probably going to need to do some krumpin'.

So yes, TO CLARIFY, point for point, in hand to hand combat (a not uncommon scenario), as opposed to a terrain-less shooting gallery with no supporting units (an almost impossible scenario), I don't know what could take those down, let alone what troop choice could take them down.

10 Red Butchers with Surlak in a Crimson Path list with Blood Madness in effect?

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Walnuts wrote:

 King Amroth wrote:
Iron Tyrants
Give them a master of signal and a siege breaker or perty and a siege breaker and start giggling.

Again, in hand to hand. When someone says something like "S6 and 3 attacks each if you use the chymeridae rule, they're only 15.25 points each" pretty safe to say they're talking hand to hand. Otherwise, spoiler, you don't even have to get creative, there are a ton of units that could beat that if it exists in a vaccuum where they're just target practice. One Xiphon interceptor could 'beat' them, since they wouldn't be able to touch it.

This is a game where you need to cap points, require troops, even one troop model hiding out of sight in a ruin can get you a point, and if you're going get your enemy's points, you're probably going to need to do some krumpin'.

So yes, TO CLARIFY, point for point, in hand to hand combat (a not uncommon scenario), as opposed to a terrain-less shooting gallery with no supporting units (an almost impossible scenario), I don't know what could take those down, let alone what troop choice could take them down.

10 Red Butchers with Surlak in a Crimson Path list with Blood Madness in effect?

Yeah man, give em lightning claws and you're prob right, unless the chymeridaes are packing plasma (which they could, possibly).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Walnuts wrote:
One Xiphon interceptor could 'beat' them, since they wouldn't be able to touch it.

Not true, they have kraks.

Haaah I'd love to see it. Reminds me of a game of 40k I was watching my brother play a few years ago where he had a chaos marine aspiring champion with a plasma pistol right underneath an undamaged storm eagle. He rolled a hit, rolled a six to penetrate, the guy botched his jink, then he rolled a six to blow it up.
We were all laughing so hard, it was like that scene from Patton, but if he managed to shoot down the German plane with his pistol.

Is the wording on taking them in a WE army still muddy? I remember it wasn't totally clear on if you get them as a free upgrade to a CCW, or if you got them entirely for free so long as the unit could take a CCW.

It says if you have access to a Chainsword, you can have a Chain Axe for free instead.

Nice, so yeah you can really load up on +1S attacks and play super-orks if you wanted.

Blackshield outlanders will make good use of this especially with rad grenades