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Tokyo has elected its first female governor.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-36935083

Japan being a pretty traditional male-dominated society still, this is a big step forwards. Tokyo may be "only a city" but it's the largest city on Earth, with over 30 million inhabitants, the capital of the third richest nation, and the venue for the 2020 Olympics, so this role is pretty significant.

Omedetou Yuriko-san! Gambatte kudasai!

It's a big step for Japanese politics and for Japanese society in general. After decades of going nowhere on issues of women's equality all of a sudden they're starting to catch up quite quickly.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Tokyo has elected its first female governor.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-36935083

Japan being a pretty traditional male-dominated society still, this is a big step forwards. Tokyo may be "only a city" but it's the largest city on Earth, with over 30 million inhabitants, the capital of the third richest nation, and the venue for the 2020 Olympics, so this role is pretty significant.

Omedetou Yuriko-san! Gambatte kudasai!

That sounds like quit an historic event. That city has a larger population than some countries. How to people keep sane there with such a population around them? Bear in mind, I ask this question as someone who comes from an area with a fairly low population by comparison.

I remember back in the day when I took Japanese the teacher was a Japanese woman who told us she had a Masters degree but the only real work she could get in Japan was as a Flight Attendant, which didn't require a degree, so she went elsewhere to find work. Glad to hear the wheels are (slowly) turning.

Relapse wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Tokyo has elected its first female governor.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-36935083

Japan being a pretty traditional male-dominated society still, this is a big step forwards. Tokyo may be "only a city" but it's the largest city on Earth, with over 30 million inhabitants, the capital of the third richest nation, and the venue for the 2020 Olympics, so this role is pretty significant.

Omedetou Yuriko-san! Gambatte kudasai!

That sounds like quit an historic event. That city has a larger population than some countries. How to people keep sane there with such a population around them? Bear in mind, I ask this question as someone who comes from an area with a fairly low population by comparison.

I've lived in suburbs or big cities my whole life, and I can't imagine staying sane without a dense population around. I guess it just depends on what you are used to.

Relapse wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Tokyo has elected its first female governor.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-36935083

Japan being a pretty traditional male-dominated society still, this is a big step forwards. Tokyo may be "only a city" but it's the largest city on Earth, with over 30 million inhabitants, the capital of the third richest nation, and the venue for the 2020 Olympics, so this role is pretty significant.

Omedetou Yuriko-san! Gambatte kudasai!

That sounds like quit an historic event. That city has a larger population than some countries. How to people keep sane there with such a population around them? Bear in mind, I ask this question as someone who comes from an area with a fairly low population by comparison.

Given what I've seen everytime I try to watch modern anime, they don't stay sane at all.

Relapse wrote:
How to people keep sane there with such a population around them? Bear in mind, I ask this question as someone who comes from an area with a fairly low population by comparison.

For starters everybody tries to avoid causing unneccessary trouble to each other. The Japanese politeness stems from very simple survival instinct. It's NEEDED in such crowded area! Especially when apartment sound prevention can be almost literally "paper thin" and trains get crowded to the max(if you ever are in Tokyo in weekday try going in train toward Shinjuku around 8am That's quite an experience...). In Finland there would probably be riot if trains were as crowded. We like our personal space

I can't wait for the first female German Chancellor

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Tokyo has elected its first female governor.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-36935083

Japan being a pretty traditional male-dominated society still, this is a big step forwards. Tokyo may be "only a city" but it's the largest city on Earth, with over 30 million inhabitants, the capital of the third richest nation, and the venue for the 2020 Olympics, so this role is pretty significant.

Omedetou Yuriko-san! Gambatte kudasai!

It has always surprised me how male dominated that country still was. I worked pretty closely with the JASDF, and I was always shocked at how the women were treated, no matter the rank. A woman Senior NCO would be expected to clean the building, before the lowest ranking male. It made me really uncomfortable at times.

I think Japan has a lot more problems than equality in politics (rampant suicides, birth rates declining due to lack of people getting married and having children) but this is a step in the right direction. Bravo!

Part of the reason for the birth rate decline is Japanese women being unsatisfied with the life concept of getting married, giving up a career and being a housewife whose job is to bring up some children and make sure dinner is on the table whatever time Husband-san crawls in from late working or after-work drinking.

From that viewpoint, more women in politics hopefully will promote women-friendly policies that address this part of the birth-rate problem.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Part of the reason for the birth rate decline is Japanese women being unsatisfied with the life concept of getting married, giving up a career and being a housewife whose job is to bring up some children and make sure dinner is on the table whatever time Husband-san crawls in from late working or after-work drinking.

From that viewpoint, more women in politics hopefully will promote women-friendly policies that address this part of the birth-rate problem.

Possibly. I think overall Japan as a culture needs a revamp, and I think women in STEM and business fields as well as Politics would go a long way to changing that. Like I said, I think it's a step in the right direction, but I don't think it's going to magically change the inequality they may have.

Definitely not. The West is about 100 years into its progress in developing sex equality. Women still earn only 70% of men's salaries, comprise only 5% (or whatever) of executives, and so on.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Definitely not. The West is about 100 years into its progress in developing sex equality. Women still earn only 70% of men's salaries, comprise only 5% (or whatever) of executives, and so on.

95% when you compare same-same positions, actually. Point 3 in the attached. But in some highly technical fields, it's much less, as referenced in point 5.

http://money.cnn.com/2016/04/12/pf/gender-pay-gap-equal-pay-day/

Let's not get bogged down into minor bits of detail. (More nursery school teachers are women than men, for example.)

The basic fact is that overall, women are paid less than men, and have fewer positions of power and influence, despite 100 years of improvement, so we can't blame the Japanese too much and we can still celebrate the election of a lady Governor of Tokyo.

I can agree with that, but I still blame Japan for the Godzilla Apocalypse that will eventually kill us all.

Happy?

That was French nuclear testing.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
That was French nuclear testing.

It's an indictment of our education system that you think that was Godzilla. On topic, though, that creature was a woman and saw her career end immediately after having children. Her closest male counterpart just keeps getting more work with higher budgets.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
That was French nuclear testing.

It's an indictment of our education system that you think that was Godzilla. On topic, though, that creature was a woman and saw her career end immediately after having children. Her closest male counterpart just keeps getting more work with higher budgets.

Well at least to counter balance at least women have control of money in Japan Poor men have to get by whatever wife deems to give Recently there's been grumbling how even if their salary increases their pocket money has been dropped by wives

 Kilkrazy wrote:
[..]More nursery school teachers are women than men, for example[..]

Which is normal. The numbers are normally, in any developed country, at a 12 female to 1 male ratio, especially high are the numbers in specialized fields
like psychiatry, oncology etc, i.e. care for patients - 0.8% to 1% are male in this field. The reasons for that? I actually don't know.

Since Japan is (probably, i personally don't know exactly) a pretty traditional country, i think a revamp of their social contract might be in order. Here's a
question though - Is the nuclear family with a non-working Mother a norm in Japan?

I think you are thinking of nurses, when I said nursery school -- meaning kindergarten -- teachers. However it is true for nurses as well. One theory is that as a field becomes increasingly staffed by women, men come to think of it as "women's work" and abandon the profession.

100 years ago there were no female doctors, and now over 50% of doctors are women. It will be interesting to see if this trend continues and if doctoring comes to be seen as "women's work".

Extended family with non-working mother is fairly common in Japan, as well as nuclear family.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
I think you are thinking of nurses, when I said nursery school -- meaning kindergarten -- teachers. However it is true for nurses as well. One theory is that as a field becomes increasingly staffed by women, men come to think of it as "women's work" and abandon the profession.

Having a fair few friends who are nurses of varying stripe this is somewhat true.... Men in nursing positions tend to get railroaded towards the mental wards still. Psychiatric nursing, as well as wards that tend to have heavy lifting involved, at least according to those same family/friends in the field, is where you'll see the bulk of male nurses.

 djones520 wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Tokyo has elected its first female governor.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-36935083

Japan being a pretty traditional male-dominated society still, this is a big step forwards. Tokyo may be "only a city" but it's the largest city on Earth, with over 30 million inhabitants, the capital of the third richest nation, and the venue for the 2020 Olympics, so this role is pretty significant.

Omedetou Yuriko-san! Gambatte kudasai!

It has always surprised me how male dominated that country still was. I worked pretty closely with the JASDF, and I was always shocked at how the women were treated, no matter the rank. A woman Senior NCO would be expected to clean the building, before the lowest ranking male. It made me really uncomfortable at times.

Not was, is, just a few months back a female parliament member was shouted at that she should get pregnant.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
I think you are thinking of nurses, when I said nursery school -- meaning kindergarten -- teachers. However it is true for nurses as well. One theory is that as a field becomes increasingly staffed by women, men come to think of it as "women's work" and abandon the profession.

There's also been work done that's shown that as certain careers become to be as women's work the payrate starts falling behind.

Which then discourages men from applying to those areas.

The big problem with gender equality is that it is not actually desired by either side.
Sure there are equality minded dreamers in abundance, but they are not in command when things plan out.


Pay gap.

Here will always be one unless enforced (grossly unfairly by an iron grip.
First let us face some basic facts, men are 10-15% stronger on average, which is de facto physical superiority. Though this only effects a minority of better paid or white collar work it is noted for completeness. Now exceptions will exist, but those are exceptions, not average females.

More importantly biological roles vary a lot. This might not be equal, but like it or not it is the reality. Men do not normally get pregnant, it we deducted a total of three years in combined maternity and postnatal leave, it would place women at an unfair position in the workplace with regards to seniority. This assumes that early childcare is split between both parents or hired staff, I am only talking about the biological minimums of raising two or three children.
What can be done about that? Feminism cannot wave a magic wand and gender equalise pregnancy, whether you want that or not. Any attempt to force companies to promote on gender doctrine rather than input are penalising other workers male or female, who dont take the out of career time.
This is the kernel of the problem, eventually gender equality means using arigidly enforced legal inequality to compensate for biological differences that disadvantage a woman in entirely natural and often unavoidable ways.


Now most women for forgo family for career can avoid that, and pay equality is not just feasible it is a workplace reality for most. Now admittedly there is a lot of sexism, but that works both ways. Gender bias is hardly a male only occurrance, however litigation and availability for litigation is inherently one sided in our society.

Radical feminism is 'advancing' womens rights, however from strong indications they have no intention at stopping at equality. Feminine bias in the courts is commonplace, with regards to employment tribunals where even vague rumours of female harassment produces strong payouts, but male harassment is ignored. Men are also second class citizens in the divorce courts especially with regards to housing and child access.

I never really understood the need for the level of feminist dogma in UK society. I grew up with Thatcher as Prime Minister, Thatcher rose to the top by her own hard work, and had no trouble staying there. She is reviled by feminists for not giving a free pass to her own gender. She was right not to. Thatcher proved that the system did not prevent her rise, she got there on merit not from an artificial state gender bias lift up. In fact during all of Thatchers time, bar the first week or so after her election in 1979 the fact that Thatcher was a woman was largely irrelevant. Everyone knows Obama is black and Hillary is female, and get reminded time and again. Thatcher had a strong feminine identity, Christopher Hitchens considered her sexy, but her gender didnt come through in her politics, it was irrelevant to her work, and the nation slowly forgot beyond adding the words Mrs or Maggie before her name.

It is potentially a welcome sign to see senior female Japanese politicians, it is certainly not s step backwards, but whether it is a step sideways or a step forwards depends on the motivations behind the voters. Japan needs more gender equality, but also needs to learn the lessons of the west and not vote in a woman out of guilt, and be subsequently badgered into a feminist agenda. It wont end well.

 Orlanth wrote:


Now most women for forgo family for career can avoid that, and pay equality is not just feasible it is a workplace reality for most.

I read an article a fair bit back, I think it was in Esquire or some similar magazine, that made a very good attempt at debunking the myths of the pay gap. Basically, what the author found, when looking at the methodology of the prime example trotted out by mainstream media sources, is that the people who conducted this study did an incredibly horrible job at it. For instance, they claimed that men in a janitorial job made 70% more than women in janitorial jobs. When he looked at the methods and where the data was obtained from, he found that all of the male janitors' salary obtained, were from janitors in New York City, while most of the female janitor salary information came from cities like Council Bluffs, Iowa or Lincoln, Nebraska (areas which I think we can all agree, do not have the same cost of living)

Outside of certain well documented job fields (nursing, as we've discussed), the pay gap is nearly non-existent in terms of wages. The differences in pay, as noted in this same article that I read, were largely societal. By that I mean that working women take more sick days to care for children than men do. Men are something like 60% more likely to work overtime than women are. If all you saw were their pay stubs, you could assume a wage gap, but are failing to account for all of the variables present.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-20294633

Birmingham City Council liable for £757m equal pay claims
12 November 2012

Birmingham City Council has revealed it will have to pay at least £757m to settle equal pay claims brought by mainly women who missed out on bonuses.

Last month 174 people who worked in traditionally-female roles won a ruling at the Supreme Court over the pay.

The £757m includes claims by that group and hundreds of other city council workers.

Good. That the council was taken to task for not applying bonuses fairly, not "Good, this crap happened".

 Kilkrazy wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-20294633

Birmingham City Council liable for £757m equal pay claims
12 November 2012

Birmingham City Council has revealed it will have to pay at least £757m to settle equal pay claims brought by mainly women who missed out on bonuses.

Last month 174 people who worked in traditionally-female roles won a ruling at the Supreme Court over the pay.

The £757m includes claims by that group and hundreds of other city council workers.

The former staff had worked in such jobs as cooks, cleaners and care staff for the council and had discovered they had been denied bonuses given to staff in traditionally male-dominated roles such as refuse collectors and street cleaners.

So, not the same jobs then?
And they were entitled to the bonuses, but hadn't claimed them?