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What's your thoughts on these? I only found out recently that they can't be used in point based games. I think they are very fluffy and fun.

http://www.ageofsigmarking.com/2016/07/31/new-start-collecting-battalions-list/

RoboDragon wrote:
I only found out recently that they can't be used in point based games.

Can't they? That's a bit weird. I don't understand how you would put together a game without points and be sure that it was even vaguely balanced, but that could be because I'm very new to AoS. I haven't even played a game yet!

I would imagine that now that you can use points in AoS, most people will do. Apart from the fact that it makes balance easier, a lot of people genuinely enjoy the army-building sub-game. Trying to fit what you want in the points limit, trying to maximise your choices with synergies, deciding which extras to take and which to leave, trying to fit everything around the favoured unit or story fluff you want to include. That can be fun. I play 40K against one guy, always 1000pts, and every time we play, he's obviously spent ages tweaking his list. It's just a fun thing to do. As a result, I think points games will be more common than non-points-based games, which would lead to these battalions not being used a great deal, which would be a shame in my opinion, as like you, I think they look a lot of fun.

 feltmonkey wrote:

RoboDragon wrote:
I only found out recently that they can't be used in point based games.

Can't they? That's a bit weird. I don't understand how you would put together a game without points and be sure that it was even vaguely balanced, but that could be because I'm very new to AoS. I haven't even played a game yet!

I would imagine that now that you can use points in AoS, most people will do. Apart from the fact that it makes balance easier, a lot of people genuinely enjoy the army-building sub-game. Trying to fit what you want in the points limit, trying to maximise your choices with synergies, deciding which extras to take and which to leave, trying to fit everything around the favoured unit or story fluff you want to include. That can be fun. I play 40K against one guy, always 1000pts, and every time we play, he's obviously spent ages tweaking his list. It's just a fun thing to do. As a result, I think points games will be more common than non-points-based games, which would lead to these battalions not being used a great deal, which would be a shame in my opinion, as like you, I think they look a lot of fun.

They can't be used because battalions cost points too, and many of the start collecting ones and similar do not have an entry in the Genera's Handbook (which I think putting those in a book was an error, I think it should have been straight in the app a la Warmachine's War Room so it can be easily updated). I think the points thing is a double-edged sword after talking to my local GW players; it's good for things where you want a balanced match (e.g. a tournament or structured league). But IMHO it messes things up with battalions and such; I get the impression the intended default is still Open Play (i.e. play what you want) but most people will ONLY want to play with points, which removes a lot of the flavor and freedom of choice for army building that AoS espoused.

I'm... not too happy about that, honestly. I think that it depends on what you're doing. A friendly game with someone, who cares about points as long as you're playing what looks reasonably close. A tournament? Sure you want to use points.

For instance, I bought the Flesh Eater boxed army. I cannot use it in matched play because the battalion has no entry; sure I could rebuild it a bit to be less effective (I'd need to split my Ghouls into two units of 10 instead of one blob of 20, which is less effective, because the other units are not Battleline) and I wouldn't get my special bonus for fielding it. I would hope that a like-minded opponent would just let me use the contents of the box including the battalion, because it's not too OP. Personally I plan to not bother with points unless my opponent insists or it's an organized event. For regular games, I won't complain if the forces seem relatively even, and I would expect my opponent to not abuse the "no points" thing by fielding something crazy. In fact I'm thinking or proposing to my local GW a narrative campaign after the official one ends, and I am thinking of how to approach the concept that we shouldn't use Matched Play but institute the "Don't be a jerk" rule.

What I fear will happen though, is that nobody will want to play without points now, but the points also mean that you can't always use formations/battalions because they too have points. So while at first I was excited about "balancing" AoS, I'm feeling now that it went too far and is once again stifling creativity and flavor. As ironic as this sounds coming from me (who long and sometimes still lambastes GW's lack of balance), I'd almost rather talk for a bit with my opponent about coming up with a relatively fun and not overpowering army, points be damned, than play a blander version by rigidly following points but losing flexibility in the process.

WayneTheGame wrote:

For instance, I bought the Flesh Eater boxed army. I cannot use it in matched play because the battalion has no entry; sure I could rebuild it a bit to be less effective (I'd need to split my Ghouls into two units of 10 instead of one blob of 20, which is less effective, because the other units are not Battleline) and I wouldn't get my special bonus for fielding it. I would hope that a like-minded opponent would just let me use the contents of the box including the battalion, because it's not too OP.

I have no problems with this. Hopefully you would let me play how I would like to field my army as well.

I am about to start Age of Sigmar and all this writings make me really confused. So I am to avoid the Start Collecting boxes?

 DalinCriid wrote:
I am about to start Age of Sigmar and all this writings make me really confused. So I am to avoid the Start Collecting boxes?

Probably not. You save a bit and get a decent amount of models. Unless you play Lizardmen then you should buy the SC box and laugh as you do it.

 DalinCriid wrote:
I am about to start Age of Sigmar and all this writings make me really confused. So I am to avoid the Start Collecting boxes?

Not at all. The start collecting boxes just have battalion warscrolls in them that are intended only for open and narative play. Those battalion warscrolls are not usable in matched play (since they don't have a points cost), but all the models can still be used in the boxes.

In case you didn't know, a battalion is basically an added bonus to fielding a group of models. You can get that bonus when playing casually with friends, just not in a competitive (ie tournament) environment.

Yeah it is a little shame not all battalions got costed, but I think players should try pointing them themselves. Look at the existing battalions with points for comparison and try and give it a score.

I think if you said "Hey, I wanna use this cool battalion. It doesn't have any official points but I would say it's worth around 100 points, do you mind if I use it?" most would be fine. Another approach would be to allow your opponent to have a free battalion rule added to his army when you want to use yours.

WayneTheGame wrote:

They can't be used because battalions cost points too, and many of the start collecting ones and similar do not have an entry in the Genera's Handbook (which I think putting those in a book was an error, I think it should have been straight in the app a la Warmachine's War Room so it can be easily updated). I think the points thing is a double-edged sword after talking to my local GW players; it's good for things where you want a balanced match (e.g. a tournament or structured league). But IMHO it messes things up with battalions and such; I get the impression the intended default is still Open Play (i.e. play what you want) but most people will ONLY want to play with points, which removes a lot of the flavor and freedom of choice for army building that AoS espoused.

I'm... not too happy about that, honestly. I think that it depends on what you're doing. A friendly game with someone, who cares about points as long as you're playing what looks reasonably close. A tournament? Sure you want to use points.

For instance, I bought the Flesh Eater boxed army. I cannot use it in matched play because the battalion has no entry; sure I could rebuild it a bit to be less effective (I'd need to split my Ghouls into two units of 10 instead of one blob of 20, which is less effective, because the other units are not Battleline) and I wouldn't get my special bonus for fielding it. I would hope that a like-minded opponent would just let me use the contents of the box including the battalion, because it's not too OP. Personally I plan to not bother with points unless my opponent insists or it's an organized event. For regular games, I won't complain if the forces seem relatively even, and I would expect my opponent to not abuse the "no points" thing by fielding something crazy. In fact I'm thinking or proposing to my local GW a narrative campaign after the official one ends, and I am thinking of how to approach the concept that we shouldn't use Matched Play but institute the "Don't be a jerk" rule.

Yes, I think it sounds like it's one of those things that would be nice to house-rule. I also think that the points values could be used as a guidline rather than a hard limit. That's certainly what I'm going to suggest to my friend when we play our first battle (when I've managed to build and hopefully paint my army.) It would be the first time either of us have played AoS, so the points values would be a handy shorthand to make sure one of us doesn't bring a much more powerful army to the table quite by accident, by not realising how effective a unit or units could be. He could bring Nagash, and we might think it must be about as powerful as my treeman, perhaps. According to the points, we can see that Nagash is several times as expensive as my trees, so perhaps he's a bit better... We might go for "roughly 1500 points, give or take a couple of hundred" as a rule. I think we should allow battalions simply because they look like fun. And I want to regenerate wounds.

WayneTheGame wrote:
What I fear will happen though, is that nobody will want to play without points now, but the points also mean that you can't always use formations/battalions because they too have points. So while at first I was excited about "balancing" AoS, I'm feeling now that it went too far and is once again stifling creativity and flavor. As ironic as this sounds coming from me (who long and sometimes still lambastes GW's lack of balance), I'd almost rather talk for a bit with my opponent about coming up with a relatively fun and not overpowering army, points be damned, than play a blander version by rigidly following points but losing flexibility in the process.

Yeah, I agree. That's what I was saying in my post - I hope the points don't take over, as fun as it can be fiddling with them. I quite like the fact that there aren't many upgrades, so it reduces the appeal of this for those of us who love to tinker, and reduces the power of some kind of number-crunching metagame. The upgrades thing can be very intimidating and confusing in 40K. I like not having to deal with it, frankly.

I think Bottle has a good point, that you could probably guestimate a points value for a battalion you want to use based on the points values of other ones that have points.

@DalinCriid, you absolutely shouldn't avoid the Start Collecting boxes, they're the best thing GW have done in years in terms of value for money! Look at the Seraphon one - one of the miniatures in there costs £50 on it's own, and the whole box is £50! I was talking to someone in GW today, and they agreed that it was kind of pointless that they still sold the individual mini, as why wouldn't you just get the box with another 20 miniatures for the same price? Anyway, whether you use the battalions or not, you can use the miniatures and units in any game. What a "battalion" is in this context is a little bonus you get for fielding the contents of the box together. For example, I bought the Sylvaneth box (which is great) and if I put all the units in there on the table together I get a bonus which means the hero miniatures regenerate wounds, and the troops slowly come back from the dead. It's this bonus that I wouldn't get in a points game at the moment. I imagine it will be FAQ'd pretty soon anyway.

pm713 wrote:

 DalinCriid wrote:
I am about to start Age of Sigmar and all this writings make me really confused. So I am to avoid the Start Collecting boxes?

Probably not. You save a bit and get a decent amount of models. Unless you play Lizardmen then you should buy the SC box and laugh as you do it.

Why not the lizardmen one?

It's literally the best value out of all of them...

For what it's worth PPC has points for almost all of the battalions (several of the Start Collecting ones have been hard to get a hold of) and is the same points scale as Matched Play. The newest batch of battalions has been costed in the thread. Heads up though; PPC aims for tighter balance than the casual values of Matched Play thus battalions tend to cost more than in the GHB. So there may be a bit of 'sticker shock' so to speak

Elmir wrote:

 DalinCriid wrote:
I am about to start Age of Sigmar and all this writings make me really confused. So I am to avoid the Start Collecting boxes?

Not at all. The start collecting boxes just have battalion warscrolls in them that are intended only for open and narative play. Those battalion warscrolls are not usable in matched play (since they don't have a points cost), but all the models can still be used in the boxes.

In case you didn't know, a battalion is basically an added bonus to fielding a group of models. You can get that bonus when playing casually with friends, just not in a competitive (ie tournament) environment.

Thanks! I had no idea what a battalion is, because so far I've played only 40K, but Simgar starts to look cooler and cooler everyday. I have not read the rules yet...

Aijec wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 DalinCriid wrote:
I am about to start Age of Sigmar and all this writings make me really confused. So I am to avoid the Start Collecting boxes?

Probably not. You save a bit and get a decent amount of models. Unless you play Lizardmen then you should buy the SC box and laugh as you do it.

Why not the lizardmen one?

It's literally the best value out of all of them...

Because there are 5 local shops near me and everyone is sticking up Wooden Sticks (Sylvanets) and Sigmarines on my nose :( No one have the Seraphon starter set in stock and I have to make a purchase... and unfortunately I am not very patient man :(

 Aijec wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 DalinCriid wrote:
I am about to start Age of Sigmar and all this writings make me really confused. So I am to avoid the Start Collecting boxes?

Probably not. You save a bit and get a decent amount of models. Unless you play Lizardmen then you should buy the SC box and laugh as you do it.

Why not the lizardmen one?

It's literally the best value out of all of them...

No. I said that if you buy the Lizardmen one you should buy it AND laugh at the same time because that's how good the value one.

If we're on the subject of the SC boxes, does anyone know what the Slaves to Darkness SC formation does?

Personally if you want to use that sort of stuff you could use the points values and just avoid the battalion points. Then you can get fairly even armies for not quite as open open play and narrative play and still use what you want. Just use the points as a guideline instead of a hard cap.

The battalions and their point costs are on the AoS app. I have no idea if the books have point values, but I see no point in buying books at this point if the application is:
A. Cheaper
B. Has point values

GW is not making friends on the Google store ratings, buying a book and not getting the app stuff for free is a joke, you are basically paying $2-$25 dollars for point values.....

 DalinCriid wrote:

Because there are 5 local shops near me and everyone is sticking up Wooden Sticks (Sylvanets) and Sigmarines on my nose :( No one have the Seraphon starter set in stock and I have to make a purchase... and unfortunately I am not very patient man :(

Nice to see another fellow bg-an expressing interest in AoS . You'll find that if you order your box from Niki's shop it will get to you in a week (I would wager that it could be even sooner) so you won't have to wait that much. I wasn't aware that there were already 5 shops actively promoting AoS in Sofia - I was aware only of three. It is good to see that other, less known shops (atleast to me) are exhibiting interest in the warhammer brand. I'll be keeping an eye out for you here on the AoS forums in case I could be of any help, being a fellow bulgarian and all that

 CoreCommander wrote:

 DalinCriid wrote:

Because there are 5 local shops near me and everyone is sticking up Wooden Sticks (Sylvanets) and Sigmarines on my nose :( No one have the Seraphon starter set in stock and I have to make a purchase... and unfortunately I am not very patient man :(

Nice to see another fellow bg-an expressing interest in AoS . You'll find that if you order your box from Niki's shop it will get to you in a week (I would wager that it could be even sooner) so you won't have to wait that much. I wasn't aware that there were already 5 shops actively promoting AoS in Sofia - I was aware only of three. It is good to see that other, less known shops (atleast to me) are exhibiting interest in the warhammer brand. I'll be keeping an eye out for you here on the AoS forums in case I could be of any help, being a fellow bulgarian and all that

They are actually 4, not 5 that sell GW stuff. I've miscalculated the numbers of Shops in Sofia. I'm not sure which one is Niki's shop, but I've placed an order for seraphon in one of the shops online and the guys from the shop were so nice.
So it will be Seraphon aftera ll. I really like lizzards and it will be a fresh pause after so much 40K.

 WarbossDakka wrote:
If we're on the subject of the SC boxes, does anyone know what the Slaves to Darkness SC formation does?

Pick a unit within 10" of your Sorcerer Lord and roll a D6. 1-2 one model in unit heals D3 wounds. 3-4 closest enemy unit to your selected unit takes D3 mortal wounds. 5-6 your selected unit can move as if it were it's movement phase, but can't run or retreat. It's called "Sylath's Warhost".