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Hey all,

I'm just getting back into the hobby so I'm still not entirely clued up on everything so forgive me if this is a stupid question. I was looking at the deathwatch preorder codex set and death masque for preorder but was wondering one main thing...can you make an entirely 1500+ point army with them? Can't find anything about it online.

Much appreciated!

We'll definitely be able to do this, an increase in model range at some point seems fairly likely. I'm very interested in this as well so if it turns out to be a viable and diverse army I'll be happy.

You probably couldn't do it with JUST the Death Masque box, but you could easily make an army of Deathwatch in the 1500+ range.

We do not know if the Deathwatch book has a caveat that gives an upper limit to the Kill Teams you may field, but the odds are excellent that this won't be a problem.

At the very minimum, the Death Masque box will *guaranteed* give you a playable force of Deathwatch - just read the rules before building the models.

Amazing, thanks for the quick replies and I'll get my preorder in now!

 Selym wrote:
We do not know if the Deathwatch book has a caveat that gives an upper limit to the Kill Teams you may field, but the odds are excellent that this won't be a problem.

At the very minimum, the Death Masque box will *guaranteed* give you a playable force of Deathwatch - just read the rules before building the models.

the Black Spear Strike Force detachment allows you to take 1+ Watch Company (4 Kill Teams and a Watch Captain) as a Core formation. So you can run the points up however much you want.

There's drop pods and a really cool dropship in the codex too, so they'll have enough toys to flesh out to 1500+ without too much trouble.

My life would be complete with a 500 point drop pod DW force to give backup to my Templars.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And the Harlies are nice too.

Gonna try some Joker and Harley Quinn with them.

Looking forward now to see the flier go on sale! The stat line looks rather juicy on them

 ThatNorthLondonGuy wrote:
Looking forward now to see the flier go on sale! The stat line looks rather juicy on them

Statline? Where?

 Selym wrote:

 ThatNorthLondonGuy wrote:
Looking forward now to see the flier go on sale! The stat line looks rather juicy on them

Statline? Where?

Checl the News and Rumours thread. Most of it is on the first page.

Its in the rumour thread, scroll waaaayyyyy down.

Cole's notes though: AV12/12/11 HP3, TL AssCan swappable for TL LasCan, assault vehicle, ceramite plating, 12 model transport, has some sort of mid S/AP large blast bomb/missile. Can buy Strafing run and re-roll jink saves rules/wargear.

*Edit* Almost forgot the most important stat. 180pts.

A 180 point flying assault vehicle?

Synergy with my Templars again.

I am going to have a very interesting army. And by interesting, I mean T2/3 is gonna hurt.

 Blacksails wrote:
Its in the rumour thread, scroll waaaayyyyy down.

Cole's notes though: AV12/12/11 HP3, TL AssCan swappable for TL LasCan, assault vehicle, ceramite plating, 12 model transport, has some sort of mid S/AP large blast bomb/missile. Can buy Strafing run and re-roll jink saves rules/wargear.

*Edit* Almost forgot the most important stat. 180pts.

More proof that whomever wrote the Ork codex, specifically flyers in this case, hates us.

Selym wrote:A 180 point flying assault vehicle?

Synergy with my Templars again.

I am going to have a very interesting army. And by interesting, I mean T2/3 is gonna hurt.

I'm sure it hasn't been a secret of my general dislike of GW's recent...everything, but this release has me legitimately excited. Cheap (for GW), elite army to complement my Guard and an Inquisitor, while having a matching BFG fleet with DeathWatch Kill Teams on board.

Plus that flyer is actually pretty fething dope. Both rules and model wise. Hnnngggghhh.

SemperMortis wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:
Its in the rumour thread, scroll waaaayyyyy down.

Cole's notes though: AV12/12/11 HP3, TL AssCan swappable for TL LasCan, assault vehicle, ceramite plating, 12 model transport, has some sort of mid S/AP large blast bomb/missile. Can buy Strafing run and re-roll jink saves rules/wargear.

*Edit* Almost forgot the most important stat. 180pts.

More proof that whomever wrote the Ork codex, specifically flyers in this case, hates us.

Yeah, but if Orks lose, it doesn't count cause they lost while krumpin stuff anyways.

But yeah, at least you have...you know...ummm...well, your dignity? Pride? Something?

 Blacksails wrote:

Selym wrote:A 180 point flying assault vehicle?

Synergy with my Templars again.

I am going to have a very interesting army. And by interesting, I mean T2/3 is gonna hurt.

I'm sure it hasn't been a secret of my general dislike of GW's recent...everything, but this release has me legitimately excited. Cheap (for GW), elite army to complement my Guard and an Inquisitor, while having a matching BFG fleet with DeathWatch Kill Teams on board.

Plus that flyer is actually pretty fething dope. Both rules and model wise. Hnnngggghhh.

SemperMortis wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:
Its in the rumour thread, scroll waaaayyyyy down.

Cole's notes though: AV12/12/11 HP3, TL AssCan swappable for TL LasCan, assault vehicle, ceramite plating, 12 model transport, has some sort of mid S/AP large blast bomb/missile. Can buy Strafing run and re-roll jink saves rules/wargear.

*Edit* Almost forgot the most important stat. 180pts.

More proof that whomever wrote the Ork codex, specifically flyers in this case, hates us.

Yeah, but if Orks lose, it doesn't count cause they lost while krumpin stuff anyways.

But yeah, at least you have...you know...ummm...well, your dignity? Pride? Something?

Yeah, so far I have won a few games with my Pride, one with my dignity and a handful with my something.

It'll be interesting to see what the Deathwatch codex actually has to say about building an army or if it will limit it to small kill teams.

As I understand the fluff, since the Deathwatch is the best of the best from each chapter, they don't need a force bigger than the kill team you get in Deathwatch Overkill. In the 40K fluff, a force that big could handle whatever Xenos threat they were tasked with taking care of.

I really wanted to build a full Deathwatch army back when Overkill came out. I spent a good amount of time doing research on lists others had built in the past, asked a few questions here, etc. Essentially, at that time, to stay within the fluff, you really couldn't build a Deathwatch army.

We'll need to see if the new codex allows for larger armies based on redefining the Deathwatch or some kind of retcon to allow them to be full armies. It would be pretty awesome if they did allow a full Deathwatch army, though!

SG

Codex leaks looks like it'll be a pretty complete army. Formations generally consists of 10-man kill teams, and the super formation is a few of them plus support and command staff. Throw some vehicles in, and you'll comfortably have 20-40 marines in dope assault flyers making a mess of filthy xenos in a 1500pts game.

I only real problem with this is that the only reason the Inquisition would ever send more than a couple kill teams is when the planet is royally boned, but Exterminatus isn't an option. Fluff-wise, there aren't many cases where a full company of Deathwatch is necessary, but rule of cool wins out here.

Fluffwise is somewhat understating, as no reasonablely competent commander would send a minimal team to counter an infestation. The general rule of thumb in warfare is to have at least three times the number of your expected opponent, taking into account force multipliers. Kill Teams seem to be suicide squads more than assassination squads.

TL;DR - build an army, ingore fluff.

SJ

 ServiceGames wrote:
It'll be interesting to see what the Deathwatch codex actually has to say about building an army or if it will limit it to small kill teams.

Considering Luchiban's leaked info has Kill Team formations capped at 10 models, even going crazy with a Watch Company still caps you out at 41 models(4 Kill Teams and a Watch Captain).

As I understand the fluff, since the Deathwatch is the best of the best from each chapter, they don't need a force bigger than the kill team you get in Deathwatch Overkill. In the 40K fluff, a force that big could handle whatever Xenos threat they were tasked with taking care of.

I really wanted to build a full Deathwatch army back when Overkill came out. I spent a good amount of time doing research on lists others had built in the past, asked a few questions here, etc. Essentially, at that time, to stay within the fluff, you really couldn't build a Deathwatch army.

We'll need to see if the new codex allows for larger armies based on redefining the Deathwatch or some kind of retcon to allow them to be full armies. It would be pretty awesome if they did allow a full Deathwatch army, though!

SG

Um, even when Overkill came out you very much could build a full Deathwatch army. Nothing has changed, fluffwise. The Deathwatch RPG has been around for how long? That's where it's been established that the Deathwatch isn't just ad hoc Kill Teams anymore brought together in a warzone. They're an organization, established ahead of time.

If fluff is such a problem you could just make up something similar to but not actually the Deathwatch.

A Watch Company is a core formation, so you can run multiples of that in the Black Spear Strike Force if you want to up your model count.

To make fluffy DW games, play at low points or ally them to a larger force.

 Selym wrote:
To make fluffy DW games, play at low points or ally them to a larger force.

Or run a Watch Company and still be fluffy.

Really, the Deathwatch RPG has been around long enough now and it's been made clear enough that "THIS IS HOW THE DEATHWATCH IS NOW" where they can field what amounts to a Company in battle that yes the Deathwatch absolutely can be fluffy when fielded en masse.

I think it can be done.

I made a mock list using the leaked rules, and made a list that I think is pretty decent.

Makes their "Black Spear" detachment.

Aquilla Kill Team:
5 DW Veterans (4x Missile Launcher, Krakk) 1 Librarian (Level 1, Specialty Ammo) 4 Terminators (CMS, Krakk) One veteran has a relic that gives the whole squad a 4++ if it doesn’t move.
This has 12 S8AP3 Shots at 48”, rerolling ones. Librarian rolls on Divination for Prescience.
Command Team:
Watchmaster (Stock, will join the Missile team)
Auxiliary
One Corax Plane (+5 Reroll Jink upgrade, +15 SR gun)
Additional Core kill teams:
5x DW Veterans (4x Frag Cannon) 1 Librarian (Level 1, Specialty ammo) Drop Pod
5x DW Veterans (4x Frag Cannon) 1 Librarian (Level 1, Specialty ammo) Drop Pod
The above Librarians, like the other, rolls Divination for Prescience and the ability to ignore cover. Each of these squads, default, does 8 S9AP2 Shots at <12”
Two more kill teams of 5x Naked DW Veterans and one Naked Terminator each
Comes in around 1845.

In the rpg fluff t states that it is rare for the DW to field their entire force like an army, but it has happened extremely rarely against large threats.

As a Deathwatch fluff super aficionado I can't wait to see what differences or new stuff is in the codex, or if it's all the same from the rpg. So excited.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Um, even when Overkill came out you very much could build a full Deathwatch army. Nothing has changed, fluffwise. The Deathwatch RPG has been around for how long? That's where it's been established that the Deathwatch isn't just ad hoc Kill Teams anymore brought together in a warzone. They're an organization, established ahead of time.

Kind of a technicality on that one as the Deathwatch RPG was actually created and written by Fantasy Flight not GW. So, it's not a 40K tabletop supplement. It's something entirely different from 40K. So, that can't be used (at least currently) as fluff for Warhammer 40K.

SG

 ServiceGames wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Um, even when Overkill came out you very much could build a full Deathwatch army. Nothing has changed, fluffwise. The Deathwatch RPG has been around for how long? That's where it's been established that the Deathwatch isn't just ad hoc Kill Teams anymore brought together in a warzone. They're an organization, established ahead of time.

Kind of a technicality on that one as the Deathwatch RPG was actually created and written by Fantasy Flight not GW. So, it's not a 40K tabletop supplement. It's something entirely different from 40K. So, that can't be used (at least currently) as fluff for Warhammer 40K.

SG

Out of curiosity, why not? "Tabletop supplement" isn't the prerequisite for fluff. GW still endorsed it, approved it, etc right? Or did they retcon the fluff from it?

I get the feeling DW seems like a complete army now, but on release it's gonna fall somewhere around the GK area; a few good units in some areas but severely lacking in other areas we haven't anticipated in, making them an overall good force for allying, but not as a straight-up army.