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400 points is not the worst part...I dont always play matched.

But this one is simply impoosible to kill with melee troops...

4+save for mortal wound, 3+ save with ignore rend, -2 hit roll for enemy in melee range. And above all, tons of damage while restore D3 wound when killing a model.

Just want to know how to kill this with ordinary army without involving very special unit...It can kill 100 retributors without losing even one wound..

Mourngul is probably a good example for the usefulness of the rule of one.

Not quite sure how to deal with it that much, at first glance you'd want to toss magic or ranged at it though. Use any terrain to help you etc.

 n0t_u wrote:
Mourngul is probably a good example for the usefulness of the rule of one.

Not quite sure how to deal with it that much, at first glance you'd want to toss magic or ranged at it though. Use any terrain to help you etc.

Rule of one doesn't really matter...unless you give it lots of buff on hit, or it wont repeat attack too many times.

Problem is it's extremely tough and will restore wound like gak.

Depends on the troops. Pretty sure a unit of 20 Stormvermin (with a Warlord nearby) could have a decent crack at it...

Other than that, pile in the mortal wounds. Sure, it will dodge half of them, but you don't need many to get through to start seriously eroding it.

Sounds nice. Can I use it with Flesh-Eater Courts?

I kid. I would not play something so unbalanced.

A couple of Bonesplitterz would eat that thing for breakfast
It is ... cheap, but nothing that can not be handled, you'll be looking for survivable troops with ALOT of attacks, and be sure to take of some wounds before you get stuck in since it quickly looses effectiveness if you take down the number of attacks.
If it can't kill your models it does not regenerate, and enough rend- wounds will take it down, a 3+ safe is still easy to fail.

400points....that's:
10 boarboy maniaks (potential 80/80 attacks/wounds on my turn)
8 big stabba's (potential 10/96 attacks/wounds on every turn)
40 arrerboyz (potential 80/80)
and that's not even counting the bonesplitter faction extra's for attacking monster...

Every time your opponent has the guts to bring a mourngul to the table, just take out your "special" box and place 8 big stabba's across from it. He will quickly learn...

Vid.

The Mourngul is a tricky foe to be sure. First off, if you can don't go after it with troops of bravery 6 or less, because they eat -2 to hit while 7 or more only gets -1. Also, focus fire. Don't waste shots/spells unless it's the turn you're going to kill him (or long range so he won't be in melee), but when you do go for him focus fire everything you can. While tough he still has a mere 10 wounds for his 400 points which is very doable even given his save profile. Shooting/melee units that deal a lot of no-rend wounds are widely available and perfect for anti-mourngul. What faction are you playing?

WayneTheGame wrote:
Sounds nice. Can I use it with Flesh-Eater Courts?

I kid. I would not play something so unbalanced.

Sadly a few other people will now after reading this.

Davor wrote:

WayneTheGame wrote:
Sounds nice. Can I use it with Flesh-Eater Courts?

I kid. I would not play something so unbalanced.

Sadly a few other people will now after reading this.

I already had it penciled in for what ever Death army I ever get around to building, but I hadn't even looked at its warscroll yet or even anything about it from a game stand point, I just really like the model.

That is a small consolation; it will look awesome while it's killing you.

bsharitt wrote:

Davor wrote:

WayneTheGame wrote:
Sounds nice. Can I use it with Flesh-Eater Courts?

I kid. I would not play something so unbalanced.

Sadly a few other people will now after reading this.

I already had it penciled in for what ever Death army I ever get around to building, but I hadn't even looked at its warscroll yet or even anything about it from a game stand point, I just really like the model.

That is a HUGE Difference. Just make sure you opponent knows you love the model and not using it for the rules. You are not TFG. I am only playing what I think looks cool as well. I love the Icewind Assault and can't wait for it to come in so I can start putting it together. Sadly I am afraid it might be overpowered if some of the comments on Dakka are correct.

Beastclaws aren't inherently OP beyond their monsters being undercosted (like everyone's) and that they can take said monsters as battleline. They are very easy to break the game with if you are trying to, but Icewind assault shouldn't be too bad.

@Davor

There's nothing wrong with taking the best units in my eyes. Be it for the models or the rules. Although Mornghuls are nasty, 400 points is about right in my eyes. Under SCGT they were the equivalent of 360 and you got them half price if you summoned them!

Choose the best, make your army as strong as you can, go for the win every game. None of these things make you TFG in my eyes (on a side note, I don't even think "TFGs" are a thing in real life). Saying that though, if you are smashing everyone to bits at your club. Where's the fun? Do you play computer games on Easy mode and nothing else? No, scale your list back and choose something else that makes your games harder to win with. Maybe it's just one particular opponent you are smashing with it. Give them a handicap or agree not to take it (save it for your tournament games instead).

There are so many variables in a match up that you could never say "this is OP and you're TFG for taking it". If you had a player with low player skill that had a bunch or Mornghuls and a player with high skill using Seraphon Knights there is a chance they could have a nail-biting close game together.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
The Mourngul is a tricky foe to be sure. First off, if you can don't go after it with troops of bravery 6 or less, because they eat -2 to hit while 7 or more only gets -1. Also, focus fire. Don't waste shots/spells unless it's the turn you're going to kill him (or long range so he won't be in melee), but when you do go for him focus fire everything you can. While tough he still has a mere 10 wounds for his 400 points which is very doable even given his save profile. Shooting/melee units that deal a lot of no-rend wounds are widely available and perfect for anti-mourngul. What faction are you playing?

I am playing Stormcast. It is almost impossible to kill this cause I dont have high attack units and thosed dudes are so fat that I cannot pile 20 retributors around it.

All Stormcast got is high rend units that are gak against Mourngul. Maybe the Knight Valtax can be a solution, but I need to be really lucky.

Mourngul isn't inherently broken (especially at his point cost) so much as he exemplifies how certain abilities on certain units become disproportionately good.

Monsters/Behemoths tend to get better default saves, and thus tend to be targeted by "monster hunters" IE, things with lower volume of attacks, but high rend/high damage values. As such a few platforms then get "Ignores Rend" which alone becomes that much more lucrative.

The Bastiladon, by that metric, is likewise very, VERY powerful.

That all said, as per my usual belief, I think its a fool's errand to target units as over-powered without the context of a full, real game, synergies in play, opponent tendancies, etc...

For instance. On paper, a Seraphon Salamander is a fair-to-mediocre unit with his handlers at 100pts total for his mere three wounds, and bad range... But I have seen my wife field them to huge effect, both in antsy opponent's throwing disproportionate attacks at it for fear of it getting close, and also its handlers (a different unit) managing to hold objectives and contribute. The minute we stop math-hammering and move to the real world, games often go very differently, and suddenly that 60pt Salamander drawing a Cannon's fire for a round, ensured something far scarier made it across the table intact.

 Bottle wrote:
@Davor

There's nothing wrong with taking the best units in my eyes. Be it for the models or the rules. Although Mornghuls are nasty, 400 points is about right in my eyes. Under SCGT they were the equivalent of 360 and you got them half price if you summoned them!

Choose the best, make your army as strong as you can, go for the win every game. None of these things make you TFG in my eyes (on a side note, I don't even think "TFGs" are a thing in real life). Saying that though, if you are smashing everyone to bits at your club. Where's the fun? Do you play computer games on Easy mode and nothing else? No, scale your list back and choose something else that makes your games harder to win with. Maybe it's just one particular opponent you are smashing with it. Give them a handicap or agree not to take it (save it for your tournament games instead).

There are so many variables in a match up that you could never say "this is OP and you're TFG for taking it". If you had a player with low player skill that had a bunch or Mornghuls and a player with high skill using Seraphon Knights there is a chance they could have a nail-biting close game together.

Very great points my friend. I guess I am getting back into gaming, I am just scared that Age of Sigmar is going to become like 40K and I left gaming because of 40K.

Advice taken and will not worry about if's or what can happen. I will wait for something to actually happen. Thanks, I have been miserable for way to long.

Greatly appreciate your words my friend, you have helped a lot for me.

As Stormcast, your best option might be to just spam it with mortal wounds. God knows you have enough sources for that :p

Oh and Bottle. I will say that "TFG" definitely exists in practice. I believe, however, like using math-hammer to single-handedly decide if something is good or not, it is just an over-blown issue.

TFG is a real phenomenon, though in my experience across years, and many, many shops now, is that the vast majority if folks want a good, fun, time, more than face stomping.

Its funny though as I encountered our TFG just yesterday, as he asked me to paint four Thundertusks for him specifically because, "I don't care about anything, I just want to be an donkey-cave and crush people".

Needless to say, I paused in my tracks as I have never heard someone put so fine a finger on being "TFG", and so proudly, no less. :-p

But he's the same guy who keep's the store's lights on by spending $500+ a week... so... you know, and I won't turn down $400 to paint up some models for him in a weekend either. :-p

Every location I have ever been in ever has always had at least the one token "TFG".

Maybe it's me then? :p

 Bottle wrote:
@Davor

There's nothing wrong with taking the best units in my eyes. Be it for the models or the rules. Although Mornghuls are nasty, 400 points is about right in my eyes. Under SCGT they were the equivalent of 360 and you got them half price if you summoned them!

Choose the best, make your army as strong as you can, go for the win every game. None of these things make you TFG in my eyes (on a side note, I don't even think "TFGs" are a thing in real life). Saying that though, if you are smashing everyone to bits at your club. Where's the fun? Do you play computer games on Easy mode and nothing else? No, scale your list back and choose something else that makes your games harder to win with. Maybe it's just one particular opponent you are smashing with it. Give them a handicap or agree not to take it (save it for your tournament games instead).

There are so many variables in a match up that you could never say "this is OP and you're TFG for taking it". If you had a player with low player skill that had a bunch or Mornghuls and a player with high skill using Seraphon Knights there is a chance they could have a nail-biting close game together.

TFGs are a thing and a thing that is commonly misunderstood. A TFG isn't someone who plays strong things, but they would likely play strong things. Simply a TFG is just an donkey-cave.

 n0t_u wrote:

 Bottle wrote:
@Davor

There's nothing wrong with taking the best units in my eyes. Be it for the models or the rules. Although Mornghuls are nasty, 400 points is about right in my eyes. Under SCGT they were the equivalent of 360 and you got them half price if you summoned them!

Choose the best, make your army as strong as you can, go for the win every game. None of these things make you TFG in my eyes (on a side note, I don't even think "TFGs" are a thing in real life). Saying that though, if you are smashing everyone to bits at your club. Where's the fun? Do you play computer games on Easy mode and nothing else? No, scale your list back and choose something else that makes your games harder to win with. Maybe it's just one particular opponent you are smashing with it. Give them a handicap or agree not to take it (save it for your tournament games instead).

There are so many variables in a match up that you could never say "this is OP and you're TFG for taking it". If you had a player with low player skill that had a bunch or Mornghuls and a player with high skill using Seraphon Knights there is a chance they could have a nail-biting close game together.

TFGs are a thing and a thing that is commonly misunderstood. A TFG isn't someone who plays strong things, but they would likely play strong things. Simply a TFG is just an donkey-cave.

Yep, "TFG" isn't competitive. Hell... the guy I mentioned is a TERRIBLE player... its more that there is someone only concerned with winning who has no regard to anyone else having a fun time. This same person won't shake hands... Won't make pleasantries... Just an all around horrible person regardless of the hobby they happen to be participating in.

Ours is a retired gym teacher who has every 80's film trapping of being a douche, wannabe hard-ass.

Make the Mourngul your general. Give it command trait 1.

Now it has a 5++ on top of it's normal saves. Not sure if it works, but you could also give it the artifact that makes enemy units within 3" a further -1 to hit.

It would work I think, only wouldn't work vs death, which in that case just take something like the tomb blade on him. If you thought he was tanky before healing d3 wounds if he killed anything just wait until he's also healing 1 wound on himself or a buddy for every kill. I suppose the ring could work too but have to remember they'd have to kill him to get it to work then he'd come back on d3 wounds, much better to try to keep him performing better than that safety net.

 Thunderfrog wrote:

Make the Mourngul your general. Give it command trait 1.

Now it has a 5++ on top of it's normal saves. Not sure if it works, but you could also give it the artifact that makes enemy units within 3" a further -1 to hit.

Mourngul doesn't have the Hero keyword. So can't take artefacts.

I'd give it the Red Fury though... And give a hero the auto summon artefact with another Mourngul in reserves ;D

I'm gonna play a game with Supernatural Horror too.

Funny thing is the extra 6+ or 5+ save isn't that good on a mourngul since it will save so much on its stock abilities anyway, or in other words the save won't ever get the chance to apply to many of the wounds it takes. Red fury is much better IMO.

For Stormcast your best bet is probably Paladin Protectors with two starsoul maces. The basic attacks have the potential to spike a bunch of damage at once against monsters, and the starsoul maces bypass hit rolls entirely. Retributors are a poor choice since the hit roll penalty prevents them from dealing mortal wounds with their hammers.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Funny thing is the extra 6+ or 5+ save isn't that good on a mourngul since it will save so much on its stock abilities anyway, or in other words the save won't ever get the chance to apply to many of the wounds it takes. Red fury is much better IMO.

For Stormcast your best bet is probably Paladin Protectors with two starsoul maces. The basic attacks have the potential to spike a bunch of damage at once against monsters, and the starsoul maces bypass hit rolls entirely. Retributors are a poor choice since the hit roll penalty prevents them from dealing mortal wounds with their hammers.

I agree. Just played a game with him, not as general, and the 5+ rarely came up as helpful...I'd definitely make him general with Red Fury next time. Cairn Wraiths do not make good generals, far too easy to kill compared.

Depending on your list, though, losing your General can range from debilitating, to the most minor of inconveniences.

As for the stacked saves... never under-estimate a good psychological victory. When I tell opponents Settra has a 3+/5+/6+ because of his normal save, his Broach ability, and the Death Allegiance one... people turn green. :-p

Pin him down with clanrats and let the warpfire throwers loose. 4d6 mortal wounds per shooting phase should do the trick. 40 spear rats with verminus command ability and battle standard planted could whittle him down too.

Kevlar wrote:
Pin him down with clanrats and let the warpfire throwers loose. 4d6 mortal wounds per shooting phase should do the trick. 40 spear rats with verminus command ability and battle standard planted could whittle him down too.

Most armies can't dish out that many mortal wound at all, let alone at range. And clanrats, with -2 to hit, are a terrible choice to fight mournguls with. Once they are below 30 spears can't even hit at all.