Author |
Message |
 |
|
 |
Advert
|
Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
- No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
- Times and dates in your local timezone.
- Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
- Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
- Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now. |
|
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/10 08:00:56
Subject: Time crystals might exist after all
|
 |
[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego
|
No no, not Timecube, calm down.
http://phys.org/news/2016-09-crystals.html
(Phys.org)—Are time crystals just a mathematical curiosity, or could they actually physically exist? Physicists have been debating this question since 2012, when Nobel laureate Frank Wilczek first proposed the idea of time crystals. He argued that these hypothetical objects can exhibit periodic motion, such as moving in a circular orbit, in their state of lowest energy, or their "ground state." Theoretically, objects in their ground states don't have enough energy to move at all.
In the years since, other physicists have proposed various arguments for why the physical existence of time crystals is impossible—and most physicists do seem to think that time crystals are physically impossible because of their odd properties. Even though time crystals couldn't be used to generate useful energy (since disturbing them makes them stop moving), and don't violate the second law of thermodynamics, they do violate a fundamental symmetry of the laws of physics.
However, now in a new paper published in Physical Review Letters, physicists from the University of California, Santa Barbara (UCSB) and Microsoft Station Q (a Microsoft research lab located on the UCSB campus) have demonstrated that it may be possible for time crystals to physically exist.
The physicists have focused on the implication of time crystals that seems most surprising, which is that time crystals are predicted to spontaneously break a fundamental symmetry called "time-translation symmetry." To understand what this means, the researchers explain what spontaneous symmetry breaking is.
"The crucial difference here is between explicit symmetry breaking and spontaneous symmetry breaking," coauthor Dominic Else, a physicist at UCSB, told Phys.org. "If a symmetry is broken explicitly, then the laws of nature do not have the symmetry anymore; spontaneous symmetry breaking means that the laws of nature have a symmetry, but nature chooses a state that doesn't."
If time crystals really do spontaneously break time-translation symmetry, then the laws of nature that govern time crystals wouldn't change with time, but the time crystals themselves would change over time due to their ground-state motion, spontaneously breaking the symmetry.
Although spontaneously broken time-translation symmetry has never been observed before, almost every other type of spontaneous symmetry breaking has been. One very common example of a spontaneously broken symmetry occurs in magnets. The laws of nature do not impose which side of a magnet will be the north pole and which will be the south pole. The distinguishing feature of any magnetic material, however, is that it spontaneously breaks this symmetry and chooses one side to be the north pole. Another example is ordinary crystals. Although the laws of nature are invariant under rotating or shifting (translating) space, crystals spontaneously break these spatial symmetries because they look different when viewed from different angles and when shifted a little bit in space.
In their new study, the physicists specifically define what it would take to spontaneously break time-translation symmetry, and then use simulations to predict that this broken symmetry should occur in a large class of quantum systems called "Floquet-many-body-localized driven systems." The scientists explain that the key aspect of these systems is that they remain far from thermal equilibrium at all times, so the system never heats up.
The new definition of broken time-translation symmetry is similar to the definitions of other broken symmetries. Basically, when the size of a system (such as a crystal) grows, the time taken for a symmetry-breaking state to decay into a symmetry-respecting state increases, and in an infinite system the symmetry-respecting state can never be reached. As a result, symmetry for the entire system is broken.
"The significance of our work is two-fold: on one hand, it demonstrates that time-translation symmetry is not immune to being spontaneously broken," said coauthor Bela Bauer, a researcher at Microsoft Station Q. "On the other hand, it deepens our understanding that non-equilibrium systems can host many interesting states of matter that cannot exist in equilibrium systems."
According to the physicists, it should be possible to perform an experiment to observe time-translation symmetry breaking by using a large system of trapped atoms, trapped ions, or superconducting qubits to fabricate a time crystal, and then measure how these systems evolve over time. The scientists predict that the systems will exhibit the periodic, oscillating motion that is characteristic of time crystals and indicative of spontaneously broken time-translation symmetry.
"In collaboration with experimental research groups, we are exploring the possibility of realizing Floquet time crystals in systems of cold atomic gases," said coauthor Chetan Nayak at Microsoft Station Q and UCSB.
...glad we cleared that one up then eh !/
|
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king, |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/10 08:44:05
Subject: Time crystals might exist after all
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
UK
|
Aaaah my head hurts
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/10 11:15:34
Subject: Re:Time crystals might exist after all
|
 |
Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress
Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.
|
I feel stupid today, and didnt understand any of that.
|
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/10 12:07:29
Subject: Time crystals might exist after all
|
 |
Fate-Controlling Farseer
|
Way to early for this...
|
Full Frontal Nerdity |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/10 12:23:05
Subject: Time crystals might exist after all
|
 |
Lady of the Lake
|
So tl;dr things may exist that do stuff by themselves which would be amazing but if they just kind of did stuff by themselves it would only be interesting?
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/10 13:05:14
Subject: Time crystals might exist after all
|
 |
Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau
USA
|
This is why I hate physics damnit. It's like concentrated migraine.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/10 13:06:24
Subject: Time crystals might exist after all
|
 |
Martial Arts Fiday
|
Every time I read an article like this I'm more convinced that there's a segment of the scientific community sniggering madly while they just make crap up, waiting for somebody to finally call BS on their ever-more outlandish conjectures.
|
"Holy Sh*&, you've opened my eyes and changed my mind about this topic, thanks Dakka OT!"
-Nobody Ever
Proverbs 18:2
"CHEESE!" is the battlecry of the ill-prepared.
warboss wrote:
GW didn't mean to hit your wallet and I know they love you, baby. I'm sure they won't do it again so it's ok to purchase and make up. 
Albatross wrote:I think SlaveToDorkness just became my new hero.
EmilCrane wrote:Finecast is the new Matt Ward.
Don't mess with the Blade and Bolter! |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/10 15:03:32
Subject: Time crystals might exist after all
|
 |
Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces
|
"If a symmetry is broken explicitly, then the laws of nature do not have the symmetry anymore; spontaneous symmetry breaking means that the laws of nature have a symmetry, but nature chooses a state that doesn't."
So... nature makes choices? Does that mean it is sentient?
|
Error 404: Interesting signature not found
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/10 17:55:58
Subject: Time crystals might exist after all
|
 |
Fixture of Dakka
|
Richard O'Brien had a whole maze full of time crystals in the 90's. That's all the proof I need.
|
"The Omnissiah is my Moderati" |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/10 20:08:59
Subject: Re:Time crystals might exist after all
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
On a surly Warboar, leading the Waaagh!
|
For the quantitatively challenged, where's the 'Bill Nye the Science Guy' explanation for this?
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/10 21:31:00
Subject: Re:Time crystals might exist after all
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
To be fair I don't think that many physicists would really understand what's going on either, maybe just the base principles, because you'd need to be quite deep in the theory to understand what's going on. Automatically Appended Next Post: SlaveToDorkness wrote:Every time I read an article like this I'm more convinced that there's a segment of the scientific community sniggering madly while they just make crap up, waiting for somebody to finally call BS on their ever-more outlandish conjectures.
It's all a simulation at the moment, no direct data to prove it either way. Once in a blue moon these outlandish theories do find something and that moves science forward. A lot come to nothing, so it depends on what you mean by 'making crap up' because that is what scientists are paid to do!
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/09/10 21:33:21
"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. " - V
I've just supported the Permanent European Union Citizenship initiative. Please do the same and spread the word!
"It's not a problem if you don't look up." - Dakka's approach to politics |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/11 05:07:46
Subject: Time crystals might exist after all
|
 |
Locked in the Tower of Amareo
|
Okay what are time crystalsand if they existed what use there could be for them? First i heard of them
|
2024 painted/bought: 109/109 |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/11 10:59:25
Subject: Time crystals might exist after all
|
 |
Tail-spinning Tomb Blade Pilot
|
So, from what I gather, time crystals are effectively perpetuum mobiles. In their lowest energy state, they still move. Thats it. But they cant actually move anything else, so you cant harness that motion for anything useful. So basically, theyre just a neat little idea without a lot of useful applications.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/11 12:18:00
Subject: Time crystals might exist after all
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
tneva82 wrote:Okay what are time crystalsand if they existed what use there could be for them? First i heard of them
I think it is just a fancy way of describing a quartz watch.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/12 03:52:23
Subject: Re:Time crystals might exist after all
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
BigWaaagh wrote:For the quantitatively challenged, where's the 'Bill Nye the Science Guy' explanation for this?
Imagine a perfectly symmetrical ball, balanced on top of an upturned salad bowl (also perfectly symmetrical). The system (ball and bowl) is in a perfect state of equilibrium (a bit like a ground state). It is also perfectly symmetrical (ball on top of bowl from every angle). But then, "spontaneously", the ball rolls off and ends up on the floor next to the bowl (to one side). Even though the ball is still symmetrical, and the bowl is still symmetrical, the resulting system is asymmetrical. This kind of spontaneous symmetry breaking happens in things like crystals and magnets, and causes them to be asymmetrical, even though the forces acting on them are symmetrical. The time crystal is an analogous concept but in 4 dimensions, so instead of breaking three dimensional spacial symmetry, it breaks four dimensional "time-translation symmetry", meaning that it might "spontaneously" change while in its ground state, even though the forces acting on it don't change (stay symmetrical). Which is just another way of saying that its ground state changes over time (a bit like the ball spontaneously rolling back up on top of the bowl). From our point of view, it would be moving without energy, but also without violating the second law of thermodynamics (like a sneaky loophole in the laws of physics). With that in mind, hopefully the rest of the article will fall into place.
|
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2016/09/12 03:59:36
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/12 04:34:01
Subject: Time crystals might exist after all
|
 |
Zealot
|
I always hated physics growing up...
|
Indeed the safest road to Hell is the gradual one—the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts. - C.S. Lewis
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/12 07:02:06
Subject: Time crystals might exist after all
|
 |
Fixture of Dakka
|
I read it and it is crystal clear to me
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/12 13:45:32
Subject: Time crystals might exist after all
|
 |
[DCM]
Moustache-twirling Princeps
Gone-to-ground in the craters of Coventry
|
So...
Explain away
It just sounds as though someone saw a thing, thought it might do something odd, and someone else backed them up.
... without breaking the universe, to do something no-one will ever notice.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/09/12 13:46:03
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/12 14:32:30
Subject: Time crystals might exist after all
|
 |
Martial Arts Fiday
|
One man's "not provable either way" is another man's "bs". Lol
|
"Holy Sh*&, you've opened my eyes and changed my mind about this topic, thanks Dakka OT!"
-Nobody Ever
Proverbs 18:2
"CHEESE!" is the battlecry of the ill-prepared.
warboss wrote:
GW didn't mean to hit your wallet and I know they love you, baby. I'm sure they won't do it again so it's ok to purchase and make up. 
Albatross wrote:I think SlaveToDorkness just became my new hero.
EmilCrane wrote:Finecast is the new Matt Ward.
Don't mess with the Blade and Bolter! |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/12 17:07:30
Subject: Time crystals might exist after all
|
 |
Proud Triarch Praetorian
|
At first, I thought this might be some sort of ad campaign for Crystal Pepsi.
But now, I want to buy a DeLorean.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/15 01:47:47
Subject: Time crystals might exist after all
|
 |
Assassin with Black Lotus Poison
|
Basically, very weird stuff happens at very low temperatures.
|
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/15 02:27:20
Subject: Re:Time crystals might exist after all
|
 |
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
|
I like this stuff in tv shows, because they wow me with lots of computer visuals that give me a feeling that I understand what they're talking about, when actually I have no real idea what they're talking about.
When I read it in text, either the OP or Smacks answer, there is nothing there to distract from the reality that I have no idea what they're talking about.
|
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/15 23:14:23
Subject: Time crystals might exist after all
|
 |
Legendary Master of the Chapter
|
My brain, it just froze while trying to think how any of this makes any sense to a normal human being.
|
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/16 12:05:07
Subject: Time crystals might exist after all
|
 |
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon
Scotland, but nowhere near my rulebook
|
That's.... difficult for my brain to work its way around. I need much, much more coffee.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/16 14:28:01
Subject: Time crystals might exist after all
|
 |
Stalwart Tribune
|
So basicly some weird kind of molecular tesseracts???
Great Omnissiah, now I am scared!
|
30k: Taghmata Omnissiah(5,5k)
Ordo Reductor(4,5k)
Legio Cybernetica(WIP)
40k(Inactive): Adeptus Mechanicus(2,5k)
WFB(Inactive): Nippon, Skaven
01001111 01110010 01100100 01101111 00100000 01010010 01100101 01100100 01110101 01100011 01110100 01101111 01110010 00100001 |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/18 22:47:41
Subject: Re:Time crystals might exist after all
|
 |
Fixture of Dakka
|
Compel at 18: Advanced Higher Physics. "I like physics, physics is great, I want to study this at uni.
Compel at 19: End of first year of university. Duuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.... *Bit of drool falls onto the desk.*
Compel at 19.25: "I like biology, biology is great."
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/18 23:10:48
Subject: Re:Time crystals might exist after all
|
 |
The Marine Standing Behind Marneus Calgar
|
Compel wrote:Compel at 18: Advanced Higher Physics. "I like physics, physics is great, I want to study this at uni.
Compel at 19: End of first year of university. Duuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.... *Bit of drool falls onto the desk.*
Compel at 19.25: "I like biology, biology is great."
I had a similar experience with math. Was planning on being a math/comp sci double major. Got to the point in math where I think I could theoretically plot a safe course though hyperpspace (n-dimentional vector matrix calculus) but there was zero real world application, and my brain started to try to escape my skull to make the pain stop. So I scrubbed that plan.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/18 23:41:15
Subject: Time crystals might exist after all
|
 |
Legendary Master of the Chapter
|
It reminds me of all the times some quantum or string theorist would describe some amazingly bizarre thing that could be happening right now, but that we couldn't observe because it didn't interact with our world of experience in any meaningful way. As a Pure Math major, I would just smile and say, "That's cute."
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/20 17:25:51
Subject: Time crystals might exist after all
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
Yeah, I wouldn't say I understand any of that except "When gak gets really fething cold, gak gets really fething weird!"
*imagine my hands waving lamely as I say that*
|
DA:70S+G+M+B++I++Pw40k08+D++A++/fWD-R+T(M)DM+
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/20 17:30:12
Subject: Time crystals might exist after all
|
 |
Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot
|
I found a time crystal once, but Ganon tried to take it away from me. I shoved the Master Sword up his ass as revenge.
|
6000 pts
2000 pts
2500 pts
3000 pts
"We're on an express elevator to hell - goin' down!"
"Depends on the service being refused. It should be fine to refuse to make a porn star a dildo shaped cake that they wanted to use in a wedding themed porn..." |
|
 |
 |
|