Vatican rules against scattering of ashes

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**reds8n**

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/vatican-just-banned-scattering-ashes-180960907/?utm_source=facebook.com&no-ist

Whhen people die, they often instruct their loved ones to scatter their ashes in some beloved place. And survivors sometimes opt to place dear old mom or dad’s remains on top of the family mantel or in some other display rather than bury them. But for Catholics, those practices could abruptly go out of style. As Harriet Sherwood reports for The Guardian, the Vatican has ruled that ashes can only be stored in sacred places such as cemeteries.

According to new instructions just announced by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, a Vatican body devoted to clarifying Catholic doctrine, Roman Catholics should bury ashes in “cemeteries or other sacred places.” The document states that “the conservation of the ashes of the departed in a domestic residence is not permitted” and can be permitted only in extraordinary circumstances. The ban includes the scattering of ashes and the division of ashes among family members and states that descendants who have requested that their ashes be cremated must be denied Christian funerals.

Sherwood reports that Cardinal Gerhard Müller, who leads the Congregation, said that burial is preferable to cremation and that dispersing ashes in the air will not be allowed “in order to avoid any form of pantheistic or naturalistic or nihilistic misunderstanding.”

According to the National Funeral Directors Association, a group of funeral industry professionals, cremation rates have grown in recent years. In 2015, they projected it would surpass the rate of burial, reaching 48.5 percent compared with 45.4 percent of burials. The group projects that by 2030, 71.1 percent of people will be cremated instead of buried. Part of that increase is due to environmental concerns about burial, which not only takes up precious space, but spews embalming fluid into the ground and impacts the environment through everything from fertilizer to water usage at burial sites. Others simply prefer cremation to burial for reasons that range from its reduced cost to the power it gives to families to determine where an how to dispose of the deceased person’s remains.

As the Cremation Association of North America told TIME’s Bess Lovejoy in 2013, approximately a third of people who receive “cremains,” or cremated remains, keep the remains. Another third scatter them, and the remaining third buries them. Scattering ashes is subject to a number of laws depending on the method of scattering—for those who wish to have a burial at sea, for example, the Environmental Protection Agency requires a permit.

Church rules actually haven’t permitted Catholics to cremate their dead for that long—the regulation that allowed for cremation of human remains only became doctrine in 1963. In 2012, Jim Graves reported for Catholic World Report that more and more Catholic families are opting for cremation. Will that change with the new law? Will Catholics even follow the doctrine? That remains to be seen. But given the Church’s intention to deny a Christian funeral to families who wish to hold on to the remains of their loved ones, the doctrinal shift—which even appears to prohibit the time-honored tradition of burial at sea for members of the U.S. Navy—may prompt a sea change in how Roman Catholics commemorate the lives of their loved ones.

hmm

Most people I know who've died have been cremated --- fret not I don't know anyone who wasn't dead who was cremated -- but I only know of 1 person whose ashes have been kept in the house/similar.

All the rest have been scattered.

.. I recall a few british football/soccer clubs having to turn down fans requests for ashes to be scattered on the pitch due to the number of them -- that might be something of an urban myth of course.

**Ouze**

Just did an impromptu questionnaire at work, no one has ever heard of keeping the cremains (not that I'm saying there is anything wrong with it, it just seems uncommon).

We scattered my dad's ashes. We're not religious though. Seems like kind of a silly rule, but I guess that's what you get.

**Peregrine**

How about we make our comments somewhat less inflammatory.
Thanks.

Reds8n

**Inquisitor Lord Bane**

My parent's old neighbor (she was in her late 70's) kept half of her husbands ashes. And my Father-in-Law has his mothers as well. I personally don't understand the concept of keeping them, but I'd rather be burned in an open pyre myself (unfortunately illegal here).

**Maddermax**

Ouze wrote:
Just did an impromptu questionnaire at work, no one has ever heard of keeping the cremains (not that I'm saying there is anything wrong with it, it just seems uncommon).

We scattered my dad's ashes. We're not religious though. Seems like kind of a silly rule, but I guess that's what you get.

There's the old jokes about keeping grandma on the mantlepiece, but yeah, it seems very uncommon these days.

That said, over in Taiwan it's very common to bury the ashes, or inter them in a specialised facility rather than scatter them. The one I saw, where some of my wife's family is interred, was a large multi-story building, with hundreds Rooms filled with endless glass cabinets, each containing a number of urns or other vessels. Seemed like a more space efficient way to keep the dead than a traditional graveyard.

Anyway, this ruling by the Vatican is probably going to piss a lot of people off - Catholics who've already scattered the ashes of loved ones will hate being told that they've actually got it wrong, and you can't just hand wave it away as OK without others saying "so why can't we do it then".

**Peregrine**

Maddermax wrote:
Anyway, this ruling by the Vatican is probably going to piss a lot of people off - Catholics who've already scattered the ashes of loved ones will hate being told that they've actually got it wrong, and you can't just hand wave it away as OK without others saying "so why can't we do it then".

This is why, like many things the Church says as official policy, most people will probably ignore the rule. It's kind of like how lots of Catholics ignore the rules about birth control because sex is fun and having accidental kids isn't. If it's an issue they will lie to their local church and say "of course we're keeping the ashes", get the funeral, and then scatter the ashes as planned.

**Maddermax**

Peregrine wrote:
Maddermax wrote:
Anyway, this ruling by the Vatican is probably going to piss a lot of people off - Catholics who've already scattered the ashes of loved ones will hate being told that they've actually got it wrong, and you can't just hand wave it away as OK without others saying "so why can't we do it then".

This is why, like many things the Church says as official policy, most people will probably ignore the rule. It's kind of like how lots of Catholics ignore the rules about birth control because sex is fun and having accidental kids isn't. If it's an issue they will lie to their local church and say "of course we're keeping the ashes", get the funeral, and then scatter the ashes as planned.

Can't keep the ashes either, according to the article above. Have to be buried, or stored in a "sacred place" if the article is accurate, probably at some expense.

The cynical part of me thinks it's a good way to get the punters to return to holy places regularly, reminds them to keep going to church.

**Nostromodamus**

Maddermax wrote:
The cynical part of me thinks it's a good way to get the punters to return to holy places regularly, reminds them to keep going to church.

Also means they get to charge for a grave plot or space in the "sacred place".

Those wily Catholics...

**squidhills**

Just a bit of trivia, but the "Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith" is only the contemporary name for that particular branch of the Church. It used to be called "The Motherfething Inquisition". Yes, they are still around and they are still telling people what to do.

They probably aren't torturing as many people as they used to, though.

**Maddermax**

squidhills wrote:
Just a bit of trivia, but the "Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith" is only the contemporary name for that particular branch of the Church. It used to be called "The Motherfething Inquisition". Yes, they are still around and they are still telling people what to do.

They probably aren't torturing as many people as they used to, though.

The inquisition you say? I definitely wasn't expecting them.....

**Nostromodamus**

Maddermax wrote:
squidhills wrote:
Just a bit of trivia, but the "Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith" is only the contemporary name for that particular branch of the Church. It used to be called "The Motherfething Inquisition". Yes, they are still around and they are still telling people what to do.

They probably aren't torturing as many people as they used to, though.

The inquisition you say? I definitely wasn't expecting them.....

Beware the soft cushions!

**Kid_Kyoto**

That's upsetting. My plan was always to be cremated and the ashes scattered in New York harbor. I figured the family can just do it off the back of the Staten Island Ferry.

At least the first part of the plan, being murdered by a jealous husband on my 120th birthday can still work.

**Troy**

Kid_Kyoto wrote:
That's upsetting. My plan was always to be cremated and the ashes scattered in New York harbor. I figured the family can just do it off the back of the Staten Island Ferry.

At least the first part of the plan, being murdered by a jealous husband on my 120th birthday can still work.

Kid Kyoto is clearly the person we mere mortals aspire to be.

**kronk**

I want my ashes compressed into a block and then used in a 3-D printer to make a bunch of dice. But put two 1's and no sixes on each dice so that they're disappointing.

**reds8n**

Kid_Kyoto wrote:
That's upsetting. My plan was always to be cremated and the ashes scattered in New York harbor. I figured the family can just do it off the back of the Staten Island Ferry.

At least the first part of the plan, being murdered by a jealous husband on my 120th birthday can still work.

I hate to be that guy but if you check the smallprint, your mortal remains are owned by Messrs. Yakface and Legoburner.

IIRC they've agreed to have me smoked -- in a hookah one believes.

**sirlynchmob**

scattering the ashes is so last millennia, now days your ashes can be turned into a jewel or even a tree. I like the tree option myself.

**jreilly89**

Remains should be buried in a "sacred" place. I'm sorry, the Earth itself isn't sacred??

You know, the planet God created?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ouze wrote:
Just did an impromptu questionnaire at work, no one has ever heard of keeping the cremains (not that I'm saying there is anything wrong with it, it just seems uncommon).

We scattered my dad's ashes. We're not religious though. Seems like kind of a silly rule, but I guess that's what you get.

Really? It's not quite as common anymore, but I've still seen it referenced in media a lot. Surprised people are unfamiliar with it.

**BigWaaagh**

I'm a Catholic, but not even remotely a very zealous Catholic. I see doctrine like this and I just say, "Really?", and shake my head. It just seems so, petty and obtuse.

**notprop**

Maddermax wrote:
squidhills wrote:
Just a bit of trivia, but the "Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith" is only the contemporary name for that particular branch of the Church. It used to be called "The Motherfething Inquisition". Yes, they are still around and they are still telling people what to do.

They probably aren't torturing as many people as they used to, though.

The inquisition you say? I definitely wasn't expecting them.....

No one ever does.

**A Town Called Malus**

Hmmm, well there goes my plan for my ashes to be blasted into space after being cremated in the exhaust of a Saturn V.

Goddamn Vatican, ruining peoples dreams

**General Annoyance**

A Town Called Malus wrote:
Goddamn Vatican, ruining peoples dreams

I picture my cremation as me lying on top of a Ferrari 458 whose wheel arch glue has overheated, in a cradle of unused Note 7's.

Damn Vatican

My Grandfather and Grandmother were simply buried. My Grandmother was a devout Christian, but I get the feeling that most people in the UK prefer burials over cremation. Could just be me though.

G.A

**Co'tor Shas**

Ouze wrote:
Just did an impromptu questionnaire at work, no one has ever heard of keeping the cremains (not that I'm saying there is anything wrong with it, it just seems uncommon).

We scattered my dad's ashes. We're not religious though. Seems like kind of a silly rule, but I guess that's what you get.

My aunt is somewhere in ny grandmother's garage. There was never an active decision to keep them, we just never got around to doing anything with them...

**Nostromodamus**

I want my ashes to be piled in my back yard with a coiled sword stuck in it Dark Souls style.

Ashen One indeed...

**reds8n**

General Annoyance wrote:
I get the feeling that most people in the UK prefer burials over cremation. Could just be me though.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37105212

"Cremation favoured over burial by Britons, says poll "

More than three times as many Britons want to be cremated as those wishing to be buried, a survey suggests.
Of the 1,546 adults surveyed online by YouGov, 58% prefer cremation when they die, in comparison with 17% of those who would opt for burial.
Of those in favour of cremation, 79% want their ashes to be scattered , and 7% want them to be kept.
YouGov said there was a "strong shift in preference towards cremation as people get older".
While 42% of 18 to 24-year-olds wish to be cremated, this figure rises to 71% among the over-65s.
'Great taboo'
Statistics from the Cremation Society of Great Britain show 75% of people are cremated at present.
When asked at which age they would prefer to die, the most popular choice was between 81 and 100, selected by 44%. This range was the most popular across all age groups, and most of all with those aged 65 and older - with 60% of them choosing it.
The current average UK life expectancy, according to the World Bank, is 81.
The highest age option - to live to 110 or older - was chosen by 14% of people. Of these, 19% of men wanted to reach 110 or older, compared with 9% of women.
Freddie Sayers, editor-in-chief at YouGov said: "It's always interesting to see real numbers about something that people never really talk about.
"I think these figures lift the lid on one of the great taboo subjects."
He added that one of the conclusions that could perhaps be drawn from the poll was that as people got older attitudes to death changed, and rather than keep with tradition people were more inclined to think philosophically and practically.
Funeral colours
When asked if they were scared of death, 58% of men said they were not, compared with 42% of women.
The research also probed the latest attitudes towards what mourners should wear at a funeral.
Wearing black was seen as a requirement by 22% of people. But 45% said wearing other colours was acceptable, so long as they were "dark and sombre".
Another 29% thought it was acceptable to wear any colour of clothing to a funeral.

**BigWaaagh**

Checked the "Donate Whole Body" on my driver's license...if they'll have it! Once you've moved on, who gives a feth what happens to the decaying bits. Also, my wife's a doctor, so I'm empathetic to helping out the medical sciences.

EDIT: I wonder what the church says about altruistic efforts regarding the corpus humanus? Eh, don't care.

**General Annoyance**

reds8n wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37105212

"Cremation favoured over burial by Britons, says poll "

Huh, interesting read. Thanks for showing me that

BigWaaagh wrote:
Checked the "Donate Whole Body" on my driver's license...if they'll have it! Once you've moved on, who gives a feth what happens to the decaying bits. Also, my wife's a doctor, so I'm empathetic to helping out the medical sciences.

You know I have actually been meaning to make myself known as willing to do that, at least for my internal Organs. Not sure about donating my entire body, but honestly, like you, I'm not very fussed about what happens after I'm gone.

**A Town Called Malus**

BigWaaagh wrote:
Checked the "Donate Whole Body" on my driver's license...if they'll have it! Once you've moved on, who gives a feth what happens to the decaying bits. Also, my wife's a doctor, so I'm empathetic to helping out the medical sciences.

EDIT: I wonder what the church says about altruistic efforts regarding the corpus humanus? Eh, don't care.

I think that most of the main religions regard organ donation as something to be applauded. This is trying to remember way back to organ donation leaflets I read whilst waiting for hospital appointments, though

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Nostromodamus wrote:
I want my ashes to be piled in my back yard with a coiled sword stuck in it Dark Souls style.

Ashen One indeed...

Don't forget to write insightful messages like "Amazing chest ahead", "Keep going, skeleton!" and "Amazing view" in yellow chalk around it.

**Nostromodamus**

A Town Called Malus wrote:
I think that most of the main religions regard organ donation as something to be applauded. This is trying to remember way back to organ donation leaflets I read whilst waiting for hospital appointments, though

Heretical propaganda from the unbelievers. Organs must be kept with your body so that your zombie doesn't rise and seek revenge upon the doctors and donation recipients. Or something.

A Town Called Malus wrote:
Nostromodamus wrote:
I want my ashes to be piled in my back yard with a coiled sword stuck in it Dark Souls style.

Ashen One indeed...

Don't forget to write insightful messages like "Great chest ahead" in yellow chalk around it.

If I lived near a cliff I'd love to put "try jumping", but I think leaving a summoning sign will have to suffice.

**Frazzled**

I want my parts donated so I can then overcome them and have a whole Legion of people to do my bidding muahaha

We waited and spread Dad and Mom at the same time at Inks Lake-one of their favorite places. We did it at the same and mixed them together as they were in life.

I will not say what my opinion is of the Catholic Church for this pronouncement, other than their view is...misplaced and unfortunate.

**hotsauceman1**

Man, they would be pissed that we put my dads ashes through his Harley to make sure he is always with the bike.