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I want to know your opinions on the best terminator armies, for 1850 points and under. Please choose your top 2.

There really should be an option for "None-Terminators stink".

But I went with GK and Deathwatch.

None.

Haven't seen all the TSons Terminator rules so I can't comment there. I'd say GK, DA, and Space Wolves (GK/Wolves top two on flexibility of the Terminator-only build, DA/Wolves top two on viability in the game), they've got reasonably-flexible ways to run Terminator-based armies and a lot more tools for using them than the rest. Deathwatch Terminators are an afterthought that don't really add much beyond the ability to have missile launchers (and can't be used independent of a bunch of regular power-armoured models anyway), and BA/SM/CSM Terminators are languishing in a sea of designed-to-3/4e ireelevance.

Easily Grey Knights. Chaos Terminators and Space Wolves are a close second though.

Orks. We're the only ones with decent assault vehicles

Space Wolves aren't bad, and probably some of the better termis out there, same with Chaos. But Grey Knights have the advantage of being able to run them as troops, and make an army completely out of TDA.

xlDuke wrote:
Orks. We're the only ones with decent assault vehicles

I award you no points and may god have mercy on your soul.

A Trukk is not a good assault vehicle, a Battlewagon is not a "Good" assault vehicle. They are only good for us because they are slightly better then the rest of our garbage fire codex.

SemperMortis wrote:

xlDuke wrote:
Orks. We're the only ones with decent assault vehicles

I award you no points and may god have mercy on your soul.

A Trukk is not a good assault vehicle, a Battlewagon is not a "Good" assault vehicle. They are only good for us because they are slightly better then the rest of our garbage fire codex.

touché. I may have gone overboard with such a positive adjective, "adequate" is probably more fitting. When you compare them to the assault transports available to Terminator armies they do okay, I'd take a wagon over a Land Raider any day.

CSM can use the terminator annihilation force to field 3-5 termie units and a lord or sorcerer in (free) TDA, or Abaddon or Typhus. So pure chaos terminators in a battleforged army is possible.

I'm not going to say chaos terminator armies are better than any other kind of terminator army, but they have certain strengths like units of 3, good choice of weapons, marks and a cheap starting cost per model. The variety that is possible makes them pretty fun. Mark of Slaanesh for initiative 5. MoT for 4++ saves, MoN for T5, MoK for rage and counter attack (rage + fists/chainfists hits hard).

I put Codex Space Marines, you can put them in a Spartan

 Rippy wrote:
I put Codex Space Marines, you can put them in a Spartan

Point of order: you can also put BA, DA, Space Wolf, and CSM Terminators in a Spartan. If that's your only requirement all Terminators are fabulous unless they're GK or Deathwatch, who have to borrow Spartans from other people.

GK terms are cheaper - have better weapons options - and give you a warpcharge - and have access to force and hammer-hand. They can be taken as troops - so taking them over another unit that is probably also pretty useless is a big advantage. Before these 7.5 codex came out I could actually hold my own against armies by bringing a lot of Terms (2 big 10 mans with a libby each) and a ton of dreadknights. Now with all these formations and deamonic incursion and crap...they jsut stand no chance.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Rippy wrote:
I put Codex Space Marines, you can put them in a Spartan

Point of order: you can also put BA, DA, Space Wolf, and CSM Terminators in a Spartan. If that's your only requirement all Terminators are fabulous unless they're GK or Deathwatch, who have to borrow Spartans from other people.

Yeah to be honest, I only realized afterwards you could vote on multiple, otherwise I would have selected all that could go in a spartan

On consideration the Spartan question raises a secondary/follow-up question: what Legions are best at Terminators in 30k, and are they any better at it than the 40k armies?

Generic 30k Terminators are an improvement over 40k Terminators for a few reasons. They're cheaper (30ppm plus a 25pt squad tax), grenade harnesses let them charge into cover without a Land Raider to charge out of, they all get to mix and match equipment, there's a Consul that's an Independent Character Apothecary that can join any Terminators you like, and they've got access to more and better guns (7pt combi-weapons, Volkite chargers, 18"/Assault 2 plasma guns).

That said the Rite of War that gives your army Terminators in Troops permits any Legion-specific Terminators that are normally Elites to be used in Troops as well, so we're going to need to take a walk through the Legions.

The Emperor's Children: There's a melee emphasis here; they get to roll twice and choose the highest for runs, they get +d3 to their Sweeping Advance rolls (fortunately their unique Terminators are in Tartaros armour and can sweep), and they get +I charging and challenging. Phoenix Terminators are devastating on the charge (S5/AP2 and I6) but less so afterwards, they need the speed to get to fights and they need to win their fights. I'd say an EC 'Terminator' army would have a weak claim to the name, since it'd rely on transports and cheaper melee units to be effective.

Iron Warriors: Pretty much none of their rules help Terminators much. Their unique Terminators are Heavy Support, and thus can't be used as Troops under Pride of the Legion, but they do have a unit of Cyclone-launcher Terminators at 50pts/model plus a 45pt squad tax. They may not be able to field masses of Terminators, and their Heavy Support choices are probably better used on Iron Havocs (BS5 Devastators with Tank Hunters that reduce cover saves by 1 against their attacks), but they've got one of the more amusing unique Terminator units.

Imperial Fists: They don't actually have any unique Terminator units, but they definitely deserve mention for their access to some of the kit that almost defines Terminators today. Their generic Terminators have access to Storm Shields and can purchase them on a model-by-model basis, they've got assault cannons (I'm not going to respond if Martel thinks it'll be funny to restart the assault cannon argument here), and their Terminators can Deep Strike unaided the way 40k Terminators can. They're not great at it but they can certainly make a showing.

Night Lords: Absolutely terrible at Terminators. They can give them Deep Strike, but they've got no rules that help them and no unique Terminator units.

Iron Hands: From the beginning the Legion rules make this a match made in heaven; Inviolate Armour makes them functionally T5 and the limitations (must have more Infantry than Jump/Bike/Jetbike units, must pass a Ld test to run or Sweep) are irrelevant to Infantry units that can't sweep and sometimes can't even run. Their unique Terminators are the Gorgons, they've got FNP(5+), may force a Blinds test at the end of the phase if they pass any Invulnerable saves, and a slightly different selection of weapons. They're only I3 but they've all got power axes so it doesn't matter much. Between the Legion rule, Blessed Autosimulacra and Iron Fathers to repair transports, and Gorgon Terminators I'd say the Iron Hands are in great shape on the Terminator army front.

World Eaters: They suffer on speed, unfortunately. Red Butchers will kill most things they get in with (at 50pts/model with lightning claws plus a 50pt squad tax they're sporting five S5/AP3 attacks each at I4 rerolling to hit and wound on the charge), but they've got no guns and need Land Raiders to get anywhere since they're Cataphractii and can't run. Mediocre, at best.

Ultarmarines: Generally possible, but odd. Their Legion rule supports an MSU force, which Terminators are a bit expensive for; their unique Terminators are hilariously expensive (35pts/model starting, and then 20pts/model for Reaper autocannons for everyone or 30pts/model for Cyclone launchers for everyone if you want to actually make use of them). Not recommended.

Death Guard: The iconic choice, and one of the more brutal. They've got two unique Terminator units: Deathshrouds, who at 40pts/model have two Wounds, three Attacks if in base contact with multiple enemy models, S5/AP2 at I4, and Gets Hot/Shred hand flamers, and Grave Wardens, who carry 18"/Assault 2 grenade launchers with Poison (3+)/Ignores Cover on the blast shell and only cost 35pts/model with a 25pt squad tax (the same as a regular Terminator with a power fist). Solid, effective, flexible, and highly recommended.

Sons of Horus: One of the more iconic Terminator forces, and possibly the most disappointing. Their signature rule (one bonus attack per model who attacked earlier in the turn if they outnumber the enemy at I1) is hard to take advantage of with Terminators, and despite an overhaul in the latest red book the Justaerin are still too expensive and don't really do enough. Horus' ability to take Justaerin as Troops without a Rite of War could open up some synergies other Terminator-focused armies can't manage, but it's not really worth paying 40pts/model with a 55pt squad tax for a unit that doesn't have any more hitting power than a normal Terminator unit.

Word Bearers: If you're trying to make a Terminator army out of them you should probably just make a Gal Vorbak army instead. They may not be Scoring or have 2+ armour but they're only 30pts/model (with a 50pt squad tax), have S/T 5, Rending melee attacks, 2 Wounds, a 5++, Rage, I5, normal Marine kit (pistol/ccw/boltgun/grenades), and one special weapon per five. They'll probably get more work done in most situations.

Salamanders: The center of any Salamanders Terminator force is the Dragonscale Storm Shield; a basic Salamanders Cataphractii Terminator with a Dragonscale shield is all of 35pts (with a 25pt squad tax) but he's got the same 3++ save modern Terminators have to pay through the nose for. Mix in S6 heavy flamers and season with Firedrakes to taste, and enjoy stonewalling plasma-spam to your heart's content.

Raven Guard: ...Technically possible, but they have no unique Terminators and close to no toys that interact with them. You probably shouldn't use Terminators in any Raven Guard Legion army at all, let alone try and build around them.

Alpha Legion: Unlike the Raven Guard their Terminators can actually Infiltrate. Their Lernean Terminators are close to identical to regular Terminators; they do pretty much the same thing in the same way. Infiltrate is the only thing they actually offer Terminators but having it across the board is enough of a big deal to recommend it.

Now that we have the Legion rules for the DA, BA, and White Scars in Retribution we can at least speculate:

The Dark Angels aren't particularly good at Terminators from what we've got; their plasma repeaters may be an improvement on normal plasma guns for Terminators (three twin-linked S6/AP2 shots at 12" range, still Gets Hot), but they're the only thing in the current DA rules that help much. Hopefully once the Rite/unique unit for the 30k Deathwing shows up they'll improve.

White Scars: ...We get to point and giggle if you try? Their Rites, special kit, and Legion Tactics do pretty much nothing for any unit that isn't on a bike.

Blood Angels: Again, very little they've got is useful for Terminators; most of their rules provide advantages for taking lots of models.

So the 30k Legion list is good at Terminators, and the Death Guard, Iron Hands, Salamanders, Imperial Fists, and Alpha Legion are all good Legions to try and build a Terminator-focused army with. Blackshields would be unfluffy and not recommended, Shattered Legions or Dark Compliance could be interesting if used to mix different unique Terminator units together.

I don't know anything about other factions, but with traitor legions, csm get a very varied source of terminators.
For one we have quite a few ways of list building. There's abaddon and his bringers of despair, which are pretty decent (additional costs aside).
The chosen of abaddon. The terminator annihilation force but also the purge formation.
And since TSons are also csm rather than their own thing, they also bring scrab occult to the table along with an all termi formation if you want.
Which is actually pretty nasty considering you get the MoT with a free MoN along with much better ranged firepower than our normal termies.

And with traitor legions you can customize them with pseudo chapter tactics. And until we actually see the supplement we can even fantasize about having multi legion detchments and formations.
We also have the kharybdis and spartan that can both fit a unit of 10 termis if need be. which also give them grenades. Or dreadclaws for turn 1 deepstriking.
TSons can make jump termies or give them overwatch at BS2. Who knows what the other legions will allow.

So I'd say csm are up there for termie armies, but I'm including TSons as part of csm and I'm inlcuding the traitor legion supplement with IA13 and triators hate.

While Expensive, Deathwatch can get 4 assault cannons and Aux Meltas per squad.

 conker249 wrote:
While Expensive, Deathwatch can get 4 assault cannons and Aux Meltas per squad.

Ja. You can spend 75pts/model on Assault Cannon/AuxMelta Terminators. Who are still single-wound models who can't fill the army's compulsory detachments.

Personally I'd rather have two GK Terminators or two Grave Wardens over 75pt Deathwatch Terminators.

I would say Grey Knights, Dark Angels, and CSM have the best termies. Grey Knights have cheaper termies that can be taken as troops, plus they are Psykers that automatically know Hammerhand (which is great when they don't come with powerfists). Dark Angels have the excellent Deathwing Knights, as well as regular termies that twin-link their shooting on the turn they Deep Strike. Plus, they can synergize well with the Ravenwing for some no-scatter Deep Strikes, and run and shoot on the turn they drop as well. Not too shabby, but still not great considering they are very expensive even for termies. CSM have the advantage of being able to take as few as 3 in a unit, making them a viable suicide unit (3 meltaguns in the rear of most tanks = KABOOM!). They also then force your opponent to deal with them instead of the other stuff that's moving upfield. I've been toying with the idea of using such a unit with my Khorne Daemonkin.

It really is too bad that Terminators of all flavors are not very good, as the models are awesome. Maybe the rumored 8th edition will help these guys out.

Surprised so many people are voting for Space Wolves on this, getting free Storm Shields with Thunder Hammers is nice but Space Wolf Termies are average and being all but ignored in Space Wolf lists due to everything else in the Elite slot being better.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Surprised so many people are voting for Space Wolves on this, getting free Storm Shields with Thunder Hammers is nice but Space Wolf Termies are average and being all but ignored in Space Wolf lists due to everything else in the Elite slot being better.

Doesn't stop them being better than other termies though. The poll wasn't "which terminators are the most useful in their armies" (arguably a more appropriate poll I guess)

DWK's are decent if you can get them into melee with anything that isn't 2+. Barring that, Grey Knight termies due to psychic stuff.

I honestly don't understand anybody saying Dark Angels outside the fact they stereotypically use them in fluff. They're garbage in game. They cost more for no more benefits outside of what qualifies as basic Chapter Tactics, and getting TL for a turn isn't the greatest thing ever when you have their loadout.

Blood angels. Their termies can assault after deepstrike and being sm, they have easy access to non-scatter ds.

I've tried it in like 4 games and they were actually good.

Clearly Strike Force Ultra or a first company detachment are best termies! :p

Cataphractii Captain with Shield Eternal, turn one deep strike rolls, and a few prayers to the emperor, like any Termie army!

(But it's probably GKs for realsies)

 Rippy wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Surprised so many people are voting for Space Wolves on this, getting free Storm Shields with Thunder Hammers is nice but Space Wolf Termies are average and being all but ignored in Space Wolf lists due to everything else in the Elite slot being better.

Doesn't stop them being better than other termies though. The poll wasn't "which terminators are the most useful in their armies" (arguably a more appropriate poll I guess)

I'm standing by my comment. Space Wolf Termies are average.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I honestly don't understand anybody saying Dark Angels outside the fact they stereotypically use them in fluff. They're garbage in game. They cost more for no more benefits outside of what qualifies as basic Chapter Tactics, and getting TL for a turn isn't the greatest thing ever when you have their loadout.

Deathwing Knights, fast teleport homers, everyone auto-arriving on turn two from the formation, the 5pt Apothecary in the command squad, and the ability to mix weapons are a lot better than you're giving them credit for.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I honestly don't understand anybody saying Dark Angels outside the fact they stereotypically use them in fluff. They're garbage in game. They cost more for no more benefits outside of what qualifies as basic Chapter Tactics, and getting TL for a turn isn't the greatest thing ever when you have their loadout.

Deathwing Knights, fast teleport homers, everyone auto-arriving on turn two from the formation, the 5pt Apothecary in the command squad, and the ability to mix weapons are a lot better than you're giving them credit for.

Am I the only one who doesn't like the Deathwing Apothecary?

You should really include the formations and vanilla marines in this poll,

 AnomanderRake wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I honestly don't understand anybody saying Dark Angels outside the fact they stereotypically use them in fluff. They're garbage in game. They cost more for no more benefits outside of what qualifies as basic Chapter Tactics, and getting TL for a turn isn't the greatest thing ever when you have their loadout.

Deathwing Knights, fast teleport homers, everyone auto-arriving on turn two from the formation, the 5pt Apothecary in the command squad, and the ability to mix weapons are a lot better than you're giving them credit for.

Deathwing Knights? You mean the things that NEVER make it to combat?
Auto Deep Strike when their ability after Deep Striking doesn't matter because of terrible weapon loadouts?
Mixing weapons? You mean how you take 1 or 2 TH/SS because you couldn't mean anything else, and ergo take away from an ability you're paying 5 points for?

No they're absolutely garbage. The cheaper starting cost and different loadouts for Grey Knights, CSM, and Space Wolves make them absolutely better.

And yeah you can get an Apothecary. And? Isn't that once per army anyway?