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I just read an article on Bell of Lost Souls that said there were rumours saying 8th Edition would see the Primarchs return. It also mentioned that one of the Traitors would return to join the Imperium and one of the loyalists would fall to chaos. What do you think of this theory,which primarchs shall return and which of the primarchs shall fall/ascend?

Imo, Curze, Alpharius and Fulgrim are the main contenders for coming back to the fold. Alpahrius for obvious reasons, Fulgrim because he might actually be trapped in a painting and Curze because he seemed to regain his senses before Me'shen and his death is never confirmed.

The only one I can see falling is Jaghatai Khan. My theory is that if he chased the Dark Eldar into the warp, I can see him being corrupted by Slaanesh quite easily if they were to capture and torture him. Khorne and Tzeentch could also stake a claim to him.

I believe Khan may turn to chaos, he initially sided with Horus but Alpha legion attacked the White Scars which forced his hand and he turned to the Imperium.

Curze is dead, I doubt they will bring him back, there is enough evidence to suggest he is gone. Alpharius or Omegon, whichever is still alive is a credible candidate. I believe Magnus could be as well if he manages to escape Tzeetch's clutches-although I doubt it with his new model. Fulgrim is confirmed to have secured his body again as his own, he is one of the most sadistic and committed of the traitors, I'm almost certain there is no way he will return. Potentially Horus could return for the loyalists as odd as it sounds. We know he wanted himself cloned even if Abbadon screwed up Biles attempt and just before the Emperor fried him he begged for forgiveness and realised he had been wrong

Can't see it happening myself, it would muddy the Heresy waters too much, and that is a major seller for the company. I could see them letting one of the loyalist primarchs go Renegade, but having one of the traitors come back to the Imperium is a little too much really, and is stretching the narrative a little too much.

Saying that, the alpha legion could pull it off with the whole "we've been working for the Imperium all along thingy"

BaconUprising wrote:
Potentially Horus could return for the loyalists as odd as it sounds. We know he wanted himself cloned even if Abbadon screwed up Biles attempt and just before the Emperor fried him he begged for forgiveness and realised he had been wrong

Horus is not returning. Horus is the most dead being in all of 40k


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 General Kroll wrote:
Can't see it happening myself, it would muddy the Heresy waters too much, and that is a major seller for the company. I could see them letting one of the loyalist primarchs go Renegade, but having one of the traitors come back to the Imperium is a little too much really, and is stretching the narrative a little too much.

Saying that, the alpha legion could pull it off with the whole "we've been working for the Imperium all along thingy"

I can see one going renegade. Most likely the wolves

 TheLumberJack wrote:

BaconUprising wrote:
Potentially Horus could return for the loyalists as odd as it sounds. We know he wanted himself cloned even if Abbadon screwed up Biles attempt and just before the Emperor fried him he begged for forgiveness and realised he had been wrong

Horus is not returning. Horus is the most dead being in all of 40k

Horus already returned. He was killed before he was fully formed

I don't think it was ever confirmed that Fulgrim had taken control of his body? It is possible he was jus lieing to Lucius, if so I can see him coming back. The same goes for Curze, he eventually managed to take over his psyche from the Night Haunter and the video from meshens armour cuts out right before he attacks, meaning curze may have stopped him and escaped.

Cassor the Damned wrote:
I don't think it was ever confirmed that Fulgrim had taken control of his body? It is possible he was jus lieing to Lucius, if so I can see him coming back. The same goes for Curze, he eventually managed to take over his psyche from the Night Haunter and the video from meshens armour cuts out right before he attacks, meaning curze may have stopped him and escaped.

The short story (I forget the name) in The Primarchs almost unquestionably confirms that it is in fact Fulgrim in control of his body. It directly states that the being in his mind is the daemon and that the one who took control has been returned to his prison. It wasn't so much him lying to them as them realising with a certainty that it was their Primarch and not another being who they addressed
GW loves to leave everything ambiguous to allow for players own imagination, only Dorns hands were recovered, Ferrus Manus is hinted to still be alive, Sanguinius could be the sanguinor, Jhangati, Corax, Lion, Russ all disappeared but could still be alive, Guilliaman may be healing in statis. Anything to not progress the story. Curze is no different imo, they found his headless body, the assassin had his head and many of his artefacts. I can't see how he's still alive

Cassor the Damned wrote:
I just read an article on Bell of Lost Souls ....

IMO the Quality of your Source is


And why would they make two of them switch sides?

 General Kroll wrote:
Can't see it happening myself, it would muddy the Heresy waters too much, and that is a major seller for the company. I could see them letting one of the loyalist primarchs go Renegade, but having one of the traitors come back to the Imperium is a little too much really, and is stretching the narrative a little too much.

Saying that, the alpha legion could pull it off with the whole "we've been working for the Imperium all along thingy"

Lion El'johnson history and the Dark Angels one it's always walking in the edge about if they truly are loyalist or traitors. If any primarch is to turn into Chaos he's the more fitting one.

Yeah I wouldn't be surprised to see Lionel go and play with the naughty boys. It's a bit....obvious though isn't it.

 General Kroll wrote:
Yeah I wouldn't be surprised to see Lionel go and play with the naughty boys. It's a bit....obvious though isn't it.

And Horus falling wasn't?

BaconUprising wrote:

 General Kroll wrote:
Yeah I wouldn't be surprised to see Lionel go and play with the naughty boys. It's a bit....obvious though isn't it.

And Horus falling wasn't?

I'm not sure what you're really getting at here. The Horus Heresy is one of the building blocks of the fluff, it's not a plot twist, so no, it's not a surprise. But it's not meant to be.

GW having primarchs switching sides at this point would more than likely be done to "shake things up" and show that they are moving the plot forward, an attempt to surprise the fan base, and throw plot twists out.

The Lion being a traitor would be something that a lot of people saw coming.

 General Kroll wrote:

BaconUprising wrote:

 General Kroll wrote:
Yeah I wouldn't be surprised to see Lionel go and play with the naughty boys. It's a bit....obvious though isn't it.

And Horus falling wasn't?

I'm not sure what you're really getting at here. The Horus Heresy is one of the building blocks of the fluff, it's not a plot twist, so no, it's not a surprise. But it's not meant to be.

GW having primarchs switching sides at this point would more than likely be done to "shake things up" and show that they are moving the plot forward, an attempt to surprise the fan base, and throw plot twists out.

The Lion being a traitor would be something that a lot of people saw coming.

I'm thinking Roboute Gulliman will be the one to turn traitor, the Ultramarines and their successors have the man power to do it, and his idea of order will be the reason why.

 General Kroll wrote:

BaconUprising wrote:

 General Kroll wrote:
Yeah I wouldn't be surprised to see Lionel go and play with the naughty boys. It's a bit....obvious though isn't it.

And Horus falling wasn't?

I'm not sure what you're really getting at here. The Horus Heresy is one of the building blocks of the fluff, it's not a plot twist, so no, it's not a surprise. But it's not meant to be.

GW having primarchs switching sides at this point would more than likely be done to "shake things up" and show that they are moving the plot forward, an attempt to surprise the fan base, and throw plot twists out.

The Lion being a traitor would be something that a lot of people saw coming.

Of course. But near enough every story GW creates, or surprises they toss in are predictable as the sunrise. I'm surprised you're surprised that they would be unsurprising

BaconUprising wrote:

 General Kroll wrote:

BaconUprising wrote:

 General Kroll wrote:
Yeah I wouldn't be surprised to see Lionel go and play with the naughty boys. It's a bit....obvious though isn't it.

And Horus falling wasn't?

I'm not sure what you're really getting at here. The Horus Heresy is one of the building blocks of the fluff, it's not a plot twist, so no, it's not a surprise. But it's not meant to be.

GW having primarchs switching sides at this point would more than likely be done to "shake things up" and show that they are moving the plot forward, an attempt to surprise the fan base, and throw plot twists out.

The Lion being a traitor would be something that a lot of people saw coming.

Of course. But near enough every story GW creates, or surprises they toss in are predictable as the sunrise. I'm surprised you're surprised that they would be unsurprising

Now that's a surprise sunrise that wouldn't surprise me that the surprise sunrise was a surprise sunrise all along.

BaconUprising wrote:

 TheLumberJack wrote:

BaconUprising wrote:
Potentially Horus could return for the loyalists as odd as it sounds. We know he wanted himself cloned even if Abbadon screwed up Biles attempt and just before the Emperor fried him he begged for forgiveness and realised he had been wrong

Horus is not returning. Horus is the most dead being in all of 40k

Horus already returned. He was killed before he was fully formed

That was a clone, and any 'return' at this point would also be a clone. His soul was obliterated by the Emperor, the real Horus no longer exists in any plane of existence.

 Orblivion wrote:

BaconUprising wrote:

 TheLumberJack wrote:

BaconUprising wrote:
Potentially Horus could return for the loyalists as odd as it sounds. We know he wanted himself cloned even if Abbadon screwed up Biles attempt and just before the Emperor fried him he begged for forgiveness and realised he had been wrong

Horus is not returning. Horus is the most dead being in all of 40k

Horus already returned. He was killed before he was fully formed

That was a clone, and any 'return' at this point would also be a clone. His soul was obliterated by the Emperor, the real Horus no longer exists in any plane of existence.

Clones or duplicates are common in the 40k setting, Horus planned his own clone to be created I believe by splitting his own consiciousnes, whose to say it cannot Ben classified as the "real" Horus?

What about Pert? Do you think he could come back?

Bringing Horus back would be the dumbest thing in 40k, and that's saying a lot. Even if they did, he would be the absolute last primarch accepted by the Imperium. He is the Archtraitor, not a single faction across the entire Imperium would do anything less than open fire on him immediately.

 Orblivion wrote:
Bringing Horus back would be the dumbest thing in 40k, and that's saying a lot. Even if they did, he would be the absolute last primarch accepted by the Imperium. He is the Archtraitor, not a single faction across the entire Imperium would do anything less than open fire on him immediately.

You could say the same thing of ANY traitor primarch

Agreed it would completely invalidate the Horus Heresy cos it's literally named after him, and about his treachery

BaconUprising wrote:

 Orblivion wrote:
Bringing Horus back would be the dumbest thing in 40k, and that's saying a lot. Even if they did, he would be the absolute last primarch accepted by the Imperium. He is the Archtraitor, not a single faction across the entire Imperium would do anything less than open fire on him immediately.

You could say the same thing of ANY traitor primarch

Yes, but it goes double for Horus. He is known specifically as the Archtraitor, there are probably murals of him fighting the Emperor somewhere in the Imperium. He would be the personification of evil to any loyalist, there's no way they would even hear him out.

I personally wound enjoy a twist and side swapping of some primarchs.

Now realistically I cant see how any daemon primarch could come back. The chaos gods own their very souls.

Alpharius/Omegon is always a canidate. Are they really dead? Were they really traitors? Who knows. I sure dont. A cloned Horus would be interesting.

As for loyalists turning traitor I could see Khan going bad. He was never on the levels of the others for extreme loyalty like say Russ is. Lion turning to chaos would be possible as well and I would like that twist.

 DaemonColin wrote:
What about Pert? Do you think he could come back?

Not while the sons of Dorn still fight on the Emperors side.

It would be the ultimate troll if Russ came back as a daemon prince of Tzeentch.

I don't think it would be Alpharus, it seems to clichéd.

Vulkans immortal and has already reappeared once in the beast storyline, he could easily make a return.

I like the idea of a few selected returns, would need to be done carefully though. Given what we saw in the beast arises though any loyalist returning would have major ramifications for the council of terra and the imperium as a whole. Could be a major balls up.

Curze as a daemon Primarch of the Emperor would be unbelievably bad-ass.

The only Primarch I don't see as a possible Chaos champion is Vulcan. Russ is close behind him. Dorn 3rd. Khan, Girlyman, and the Lion are equally probably as traitors.

I've been against bringing back the Primarchs...I've been against the Horus Heresy books and game too, but that's all too late.

If they're going to bring them back, I hope Lion doesn't go "chaos". If anything, I'd like to see him take some of the Dark Angels, beat them upside the head for being gakkers, and forming a small empire that stays loyal to the Emperor's true vision of science and progress.

Betraying the Imperium =/= Falling to Chaos.

Guilliman or someone could come back and choose to secede instead, horrified by what the Imperium has become.

I wonder if we will see something like Khan going to Chaos (Doomrider 2.0) while perhaps Cruze returns to the Imperium after his "death" being the death of his Night Haunter persona.

I do hope that Dorn comes back in something resembling Centurion Armor because it would be a beautiful nod to the text to speech series and fits with IF chapter tactics.

My 2 cents:

Most likely to turn traitor: Guilliman (because SURPRISE MUTHAF#+*AS! )

Most likely to turn loyal: Magnus (because "I never wanted this! ")

If the writer's pen was mine: