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Hello everyone, this is my first post.
An introduction to myself, for 2017 I plan on getting into the 40k miniature tabletop game and I would like to know how people would react to the ideas I have in mind for the Chapter I intend on making.
While also retaining constructive feedback on how to go about making the fluff because I wouldn't want to go against the "canon" of 40k but respecting the loose nature of it, I would like to know what books would a good start to the universe.
Now I only know so much about 40k from watching youtube lore videos, I was originally introduced to the universe through Dawn of War II in 2009, and oh boy am I excited for Dawn of War III. I'm 23 and plan on taking my time learning the techniques to model building, I intend to make this army something of my own, not to sell, but to be a source of pride.
So now on to the real topic, what else could I use to help make my own Chapter?
The Chapters name is "Dark Repulsars", they are a successor chapter (if possible) to the Deathwatch (I plan on using the Deathwatch codex to play this army). The Dark Repulsars are a Chapter who specializes in all around warfare, each member is trained to use everything that is available and at disposal for the chapter, either from worlds they have liberated, fellow Chapters of the Adaptus Astartes, materials used off the battlefield, and lastly the Inquisition. Ideally I've based the culture of the Chapter around the Mandalorians from Star Wars, preferably how the Republic Commando novels really fleshed out Mandalorian Culture and thus the same ideas that the Chapter would have their own customs and ideas on how to abide by the Codex Astartes, fighting the enemies of mankind.

The reason is that I wanted a Chapter that represented itself as a mobile fighting force that took pride in themselves as equals to all who serve mankind, putting themselves in the frontlines to save the many, while also having and equal level of devotion to themselves as a brotherhood.
Mandalorians are essentially Spartans in space, only being limited to being human (or humanoid species), whose cultural ties are deep, are raised from a young age to be the best soldiers in the universe, and who are created through birth or adoption in the battlefield. Using technology as they fit, but also commando style tactics, and any style of fighting, clean or dirty to achieve a mission success. These attributes helped me sort of visualize how I wanted to create the Dark Repulsars. The chapter itself, being fleet based, ready to be deployed at all times, has an unknown number of marines slights higher than 1000 but under 1250. this is because they are always recruiting from the battlefields that they fight in, taking in children to raise at a young age, trained by neophytes and such.

I'm thinking of a Color scheme similar to the Kingsglaive in Final Fantasy XV but with an added twist to the models.
I've learned that the technology called Cameleoline is used mainly by scout Space Marines as a means of cloaking. The twist to the Dark Repulsars is that they have somehow through discovery or whatever, been able to advance to a point that it is always active, even during combat. Now it would be overpowered if it were a full cloak, so my idea is that I intend to make clear resin molds of pieces and partially paint them in a way that shows their transparency while also being highly detailed. This is what makes the Dark Repulsars unique unless someone has tried to make this idea before. This is a mobile force that fights with quick tactical strikes, close or long range, always visible but the key factor is that they are a blur and therefor their numbers are unknown on the field.

I understand that Space Marines take pride in their appearance in combat because if you can see something, you should still fear it. I wanted a shock and awe factor that caused disbelief. How many Space Marines were really fighting in all that smoke and flashes of light, 10, 20, 50? A shear blur of Death incarnate.

Any ideas on how I should build this army? I intend on modifying Grey Knight bits, maybe space wolves for the fur and using a multitude of units either plain or from Deathwatch kits (i intend to modify the shoulder pads to make sure they dont show other chapters.

I've bought a Vanguard Veteran Squad *new*, and a decent lot of 13 Space Marines that I plan on stripping and using as mold test subjects and paint subjects.

The Deathwatch isn't strictly speaking a Chapter that has successors; they're sort of the Space Marine Foreign Legion, that takes volunteers from any and all Chapters to come hang out with them and play with their fancy xeno-fighting toys for a while. They don't have their own gene-seed to clone folks off of.

When we talk about an 'X Successor' we're usually talking about which of the original twenty Legions (usually one of the nine known Loyalist Legions, but not always (the Blood Ravens may or may not be descended from loyalist Thousand Sons)) your Chapter started from; at the end of the Horus Heresy each nominally 10,000-Marine-strong Legion was split up into distinct independent Chapters. As far as I know most later Chapters were cloned off the First Founding gene-seed both to keep the whole process as closely controlled by Terra as possible and to minimize the risk of cloning-chain mutations.

If you want to use the Deathwatch Codex to run this army your best bet would be to delve into the detail of a specific Watch-Fortress ('Fort Repulsar'?), most of this translates straight over but you'd still be the Deathwatch. The primary difference lorewise between being your own Watch-Fortress and being an independent Space Marine Chapter is that you'd be getting Marines on loan from normal Chapters instead of training up Scouts.

Every Chapter has their own interpretation of the Imperial Creed and the Codex, from the Space Wolves (who would be happy to dump the Codex down the toilet and never talk about it again) to the Ultramarines (who revere it as the source of all wisdom). I can't speak to the specifics of the Mandalorians (having not read the novels) but the rest of this is sounding uncannily like a Raven Guard successor to me; the 'dark' theme, the commando style, camo-fields, et cetera.

I'd say you could take the Dark Repulsars Chapter, Watch-Fortress Repulsar, or a Chapter with an unusually close relationship with the Deathwatch (using both books, since the Deathwatch book is designed to make single-squad allied formations incredibly easy to include in other armies) and come out with a sensible army fitting almost all of this.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Wulfrix wrote:
...I understand that Space Marines take pride in their appearance in combat because if you can see something, you should still fear it. I wanted a shock and awe factor that caused disbelief. How many Space Marines were really fighting in all that smoke and flashes of light, 10, 20, 50? A shear blur of Death incarnate...

Addendum: One of the most famous exceptions to the 'must be seen!' philosophy is the Raptors, another Raven Guard successor who wear olive drab and don't make a fuss about hiding from enemy fire.

Yep, they cant really be a successor chapter to the Deathwatch. But using the rules for them is perfectly acceptable, just dig into the background.

I had the same thought that it sounded like a Raven Guard Successor chapter.

Also, possibly an Alpha Legion successor or even a pre heresy Alpha Legion Company that was on-board a ship that was lost in the warp and recently reappeared.

An alternative is that this chapter could have been formed by order of the Inquisition at some point in the past. I suspect the Inquisition has the power and influence to arrange for a new chapter to be founded, or though how much direct control over the chapter they would have would be debateable.

As for the painting idea, done right I think it will look awesome.

If you can find a copy online, I would suggest a 2nd edition copy of Codex Space Marines (may have been called Codex Ultramarines) as this will give you a good solid idea of what Space Marines 'should' be. I would also consider a casual look over the 2nd Edition Codex Space Wolves as this is a good example of how wild you can go from the Ultramarine base line.

 Wulfrix wrote:
The Dark Repulsars are a Chapter who specializes in all around warfare, each member is trained to use everything that is available and at disposal for the chapter, either from worlds they have liberated, fellow Chapters of the Adaptus Astartes, materials used off the battlefield, and lastly the Inquisition.

This seems like the opposite of specialization, doing every form of war with whatever tools are available. It sounds like what you're describing is a Codex-compliant chapter like the Ultrasmurfs: adequate at following all the standard tactics, but not specialized in any particular one.

Would it then be possible to take say... a few surviving members of both the Raven Guard and the Salamanders from the Dropsite incident and create a hybrid Successor chapter off those? The Geneseed being pure but of mysterious origin, but played with Deathwatch rules? Originally I liked that the Salamanders were Blacksmiths which paralleled Mandalorians since they pride themselves of making iron only unique to their homeworld that can even withstand Lightsaber attacks. Its probably a big nono if the Inquisition ever found out, but its against the rules to manipulate the geneseed right? I'd imagine visually wise the bastard children of both the Raven Guard and the Salamanders would create visually a very scary looking human.

This seems like the opposite of specialization, doing every form of war with whatever tools are available. It sounds like what you're describing is a Codex-compliant chapter like the Ultrasmurfs: adequate at following all the standard tactics, but not specialized in any particular one.

at this time I believe I want to imply that although they are a jack of all trades type, they are more inquisitive and intuitive then the average Space Marine and therefor there are no bounds in their doctrine.

Tragically both Founding chapters from my knowledge suffered immense losses, which also parallel to the Mandalorians in Star Wars.
Of the three main factions in Star Wars: Jedi, Mandalorians, Sith. Mandalorians at one point controlled an entire empire but were beaten back to their home planet once everyone realized how big of a threat they were.

So realistically I can play these guys with Deathwatch rules. Does the Raven Guard has a codex rule book or is it included in a codices? I plan on getting the Deathwatch book this coming Friday.

I have to say, at a glance it all sounds terribly boring. It sounds like you just want them to be the best at everything, with no drawbacks. That makes for an incredibly boring hero/antagonist design.

 Wulfrix wrote:
Would it then be possible to take say... a few surviving members of both the Raven Guard and the Salamanders from the Dropsite incident and create a hybrid Successor chapter off those?

Honestly, you'd be better off just painting a combined fighting force of Raven Guard and Salamanders working alongside one another during a specific campaign and run that as a Deathwatch army than you are to trying to create some merged successor chapter.

Tragically both Founding chapters from my knowledge suffered immense losses, which also parallel to the Mandalorians in Star Wars.

You're referring to the Isstvan V Massacre. That was 10,000 years ago and has very little bearing on the fighting capability of either the Salamanders or the Raven Guard in M41.

Tragically both Founding chapters from my knowledge suffered immense losses, which also parallel to the Mandalorians in Star Wars.

You're referring to the Isstvan V Massacre. That was 10,000 years ago and has very little bearing on the fighting capability of either the Salamanders or the Raven Guard in M41.

icn1982 Yeah, thats the thing, I have the idea and image of the Chapter I want to make but to you and everyone else, Its the fluff that I have a problem backing up with alongside how the chapter itself is going to play out playstyle wise because of its predisposed origin, which I could just play them as plain Codex Astartes. I might just have them as an unknown origin

Hey man how i feel is they are your little plastic toy soldiers do what makes you happy, as you learn the lore you can figure out what when why and who your guys descended from. i made the mistake of building an army i was pushed towards and i havent used those models in well over a year and probably wont ever move them off the display shelf. so do what you want to do haha

As others have said Deathwatch isn't so much a normal Chapter but an organization that pulls veterans from other chapters to serve in their ranks to learn in the arts of fighting the many different Xenos threats and then eventually return to their original chapter (with valuable knowledge and experience). Using the rules from the Deathwatch codex should be fine for a regular chapter but they wouldn't be a successor chapter of the Deathwatch as they don't operate that way.

Based on the fluff you want behind your chapter it sounds like it would fit being a successor chapter of the Raven Guard. I recommend looking into how the Raven Guard plays on the tabletop and possibly consider using their rule set. Angels of Death supplement for Codex: Space Marine has a lot of rules and formations for Raven Guard. Check out 1d4chan tactics for Space Marines and Deathwatch to read how they operate gameplay wise. In case you didn't know Deathwatch has a lot of unique equipment that "Vanilla" marines don't have access to.

The biggest issue I see is that you are not putting any thought or attention into the flaws and weaknesses of your chapter. As a writing and development tool, your flaws are by far the most important thing for your chapter to need. Now I'm not talking about some "kryptonite" style of weakness that they are weak against meltas or something dumb like that, what I mean is that your chapter is a character, and character flaws are what makes it relatable, interesting and gives you material for story growth.

What makes your chapter have difficulty? What flaws are internalized?

There is nothing shameful or to be scared of in developing flaws. In fact, you should put just as much time, attention and care (even more really) into them. So take a step back and think about what causes your chapter to struggle? What are they NOT perfect at? Why?

Yeah, Deathwatch aren't a real Chapter, per say. They're literally made up of volunteers from other Chapters, and don't make successors.

If you want to make Mandalorians in Space, I'd say have them as Raven Guard successors. The Salamanders don't have a monopoly on smithing - your guys can do that all too, just not to the extent of being better at smithing than the Salamanders, better at stealth than the Raven Guard, better at sieges than the Imperial Fists (because that way lies to Mary Sue-dom).
With choosing a parent Chapter, don't forget that just because a Chapter is descended from another, they don't necessarily follow their combat style. For example, the Ultramarines and Mortifactors are related, but the Mortifactors have a very different philosophy and style to the Ultras. The same with the Black Templars and Imperial Fists - the Templars are more than happy to stab a heretic, whereas the Fist would probably build a fort and shoot the heretic from it. Not all Raven Guard successors are stealthy, and not all White Scars successors ride bikes. Geneseed doesn't determine how you fight necessarily, but will make certain encounters more in your favour.

Some things that are leaping out as coming close to Mary Sue:

"I want to imply that although they are a jack of all trades type, they are more inquisitive and intuitive then the average Space Marine and therefor there are no bounds in their doctrine."
Jack of all trades is done by the Ultramarines. That's not to say you can't be jack of all trades, most Chapters are, but by saying you're MORE than the rest of the Space Marines is 1: Oxymoronic (How can you be more specialised at being a jack of all trades?) and 2. Comes close to making it sound like your Chapter is the best Chapter EVAR!!!11! Not to mention that being liberal in doctrine would draw the attention of unfavourable eyes in the wider Imperium.
You could correct this by saying they prefer not to specialise battle tactics, and leaving out any mention of being more anything than any other Chapter.

"manipulate the geneseed"
Geneseed tinkering is a very big concern, and when you say it's pure geneseed, taken from the two Chapters who have very unstable geneseed (barring the Wolves), that's a little TOO good. There's no real need to mix geneseed - it doesn't really add anything that needs to be added (it's not a massive part of the Chapter's identity, from what it seems), the Salamanders smithing element isn't unique to their geneseed, and the visually disturbing element can be said by a unique quirk caused by your home planet's conditions.

The Chapter numbers being higher than normal - is there a reason for this?

Rules wise - Deathwatch would be fine, of course, but really, if you're looking into something that fits the fluff of being a Raven Guard successor, use their tactics. They get plenty of good stealth and rapid attack forces, and would have far more support and numbers than the Deathwatch, who suffer from a low model count.

Very few chapters can maintain purity within the imperium. As most chapters are probably thousands of years old. Because of this degeneration is very common.

The most 'pure' in stock are :

Dark Angels
Blood Angels (in the eyes of the populace)
Ultramarines

Flawed :
White Scars
Imperial Fists ( Have negatives to their geneseed)
Iron Hands ( have negatives to their gene seed

Extremely Flawed :

Salamanders
Raven Guard
Space Wolves
Blood Angels


The thing to think about making a chapter is that they are not always special super snowflakes but the chapter is up to you to determine its warrior culture or what type of tactics they prefer.

For example : Most of my chapters are battle hardened, usually near or have been completely Destroyed.

The Wanderers : based on the hierarchy of the Bibles Angels, follow a similar structure and follow the core tenants of a few poems that references the Wanderers (An entity or type of person), had an entire tombworld awaken below them, only a quarter of the chapter survived and rebuilt itself from the ground up, now act like the Raptors chapter on steroids, taking personal survival very seriously often deploy sniper rifles unique to them, called Widowmakers, which are high powered bolters which are modified to penetrate terminator armor. They are deployed for assassinations. They are uniquely specialized infiltration to such a degree they will disappear immediately when the enemy leader's chain of command is hampered or destroyed. Essentially the idea is Elite Infiltrators with adaptability. They on the flipside have alot of geneseed problems, they are not as tall as normal space marines or muscle mass of space marines. (Really unlucky though, often


Dusk Guard : (Not related to the death guard), created following a disaster, fought in a campagin known as the Shifter War ( Shape shifter race attacked the Northern Imperium), they were completely wiped out during the war and the Wanderers chapter. They were a eighth founding chapter, created from the blood angels.

Storm Crusaders : Crusading chapter, almost wiped out after a tendril of a hive fleet almost wiped out the chapter, (And also a misfortunate event which had half the chapter's fleet warp into a warp entity called a Void whale, which pitted the tyranids, space marines against essentially a demo filled fortress, needless to say, everyone lost.)


The idea is to make the chapter interesting, but not overpowered, Drama is created by interactions of elements with other elements or characters.

When building any chapter you need to focus on what you want to do with the chapter, what do you want to focus on?

But the thing is that if you want to be taken seriously by anyone that you have to match both the tone and themes of 40k suitably. But you can do whatever you want its your lore your fluff for your army.

(Or you check id4chan of what to do and what not to do) or spend all night reading up on the lore and reading alot about the lore and history of 40k and the space marines.

Welcome to the board, and to the hobby.

High level, I think you're actually on the right track to putting together an interesting chapter idea, and it's not a bad idea to to ask the community for input on the lore side, here's what I see as a few main points to consider.

Codex: Deathwatch - you can absolutely run a chapter using that codex as a base. If it represents how you envision their tactical approach then by all means go for it. However...

Generalist vs Elite - it is not a generalist codex. Its basic unit is the equivalent of a regular codex's first company elite choice for the same points. You will be consistently fielding smaller armies than other contemporary space marine forces, albeit with more deadly options. On average you're also running a risk because the deathwatch marines aren't more defensively tough than regular marines despite you fielding less of them.

Above average in size - How does this gel with considerations outlined above? If the chapter has 1200 marines, why do less marines engage in a battle? It's worth noting that the actual organizational structure of the Codex Astartes allows for more than 1000 marines, due to the librarius, motor pool and command structure not counting toward that total. Despite this, most chapters have less than 1000 marines, on account of the grim calculus of replenishing losses. Unless you intend to build 1200 marines, why say that many exist? Why do they need to exist?

Progenitor Chapter - you don't need to know this, and if you do know you don't need to disclose this. You can absolutely have a Fists successor chapter that likes stealth. You can absolutely have a white scars successor that specializes in tank warfare. While the specialities of those chapters (as outlined as chapter tactics in the SM codex) help colour that chapter, Space Marines are masters of war; they are not so predictable as to be truly constrained by such stereotypes.

Space Mandalorian (who are also from space, I know...) - I think the Mandalorian idea can scale easily into a space marine chapter. (You're certainly not the first person to try.) But a lot of what you're saying about their culture and way of thinking doesn't have to come from the founding of that chapter, it can just as easily be something that came later, something brought on by some cataclysm that forced them to rethink how they conduct themselves. What aspects of the Mandalorian culture do you want to recreate here?

As a random suggestion, with those factors in mind, what if the chapter was depleted? A lower than average number of elite veterans who are living out their last days in service to the Imperium due to something preventing them from recruiting new members?

Wulfrix I sent you a PM.

If you are serious about making a good to decent background for your Chapter, put on your thick skin.