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I would like to propose that Celestine may be the best IC ever.

Celestine and 2 ablative wound bodyguards for 200 Points. 7WS, 7BS, 5W, EW, 2+/4++, Geminae come back 1 per turn, buffs for free, etc.

I can't think of a IC that is so durable and provides so many bonuses for so few points. I feel bad for any other IC out there (especially Chaos).

See this link for details: http://spikeybits.com/2017/01/new-pics-empyric-storm-saintly-blessings-rules.html

I dunno, I kind of like Celestine and Cawl. Their rules are solid, and they provide a good mix of raw statlines and utility. They're Special Characters that actually feel kind of special, and are real force multipliers in top of that.

Now, if other SCs got this type of love, I'd be a happy camper. I'd love for, say, Fabius Bile to be able to get his old 2nd ed rules hack where his Xyclos Needler had alternative ammo types that did different things (poison, exploding corpses, mind control, etc)

I would propose an ork warboss with mega armour and da lucky stikk. 125 points to stick at the front of a squad of boyz with a 2+ rerollable. Any ap2 and you just los onto a boy on a 2+.

What? Durable? She's T3 and gets wounded on 2+ on anything from HB, Scatter Lassers and Grav Guns. She can PERHAPS return once per game, only to eat dirt from the massive ROF weapons that dominate the game.
I will concede on the fact that she's quite durable compared to her cost but I'll still put my money on IH happy teddy bear cuddles when it comes to point for point effiency on durability.

-=Edit=- Don't circumvent the profanity filter. - Lorek

I totally agree with you.

I think these characters are phenomenal. I'd love to see more with this treatment, it's just unfortunate that every other IC released prior to now is lame compared to the new crew. Their rules are kinda of AoS also (heal wounds/turn effectively).

My hope is that these rules don't change in 8th, but many lf the point imbalances and rules will be adjusted in 8th for many ICs.

There's a bit of fun cheese with new Celestine: when you challenge with her, you can safely make her challenge anyone. The challengee will still have to fight through the geminae first (while still rolling against Celestine's WS), while Celestine can directly attack the challengee.

My impression of all three of the new SCs is that they don't do anything.

Cawl is cool and all, and phenomenally tough, but his firepower and CQB is middling and his Canticles are directly dependent on what's in the rest of the army.

Celestine is durable as hell, but her buffs are decidedly meh and her CQB and Shooting are both awful for 200 pts.

Greyfax is pretty alright I guess. Again I get the feeling of "meh."

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
My impression of all three of the new SCs is that they don't do anything.

Cawl is cool and all, and phenomenally tough, but his firepower and CQB is middling and his Canticles are directly dependent on what's in the rest of the army.

Celestine is durable as hell, but her buffs are decidedly meh and her CQB and Shooting are both awful for 200 pts.

Greyfax is pretty alright I guess. Again I get the feeling of "meh."

This mainly because she's not 200pts. She AND the geminae superiors are 200pts. Once you factor them you get a rather point efficient investment.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
My impression of all three of the new SCs is that they don't do anything.

Cawl is cool and all, and phenomenally tough, but his firepower and CQB is middling and his Canticles are directly dependent on what's in the rest of the army.

Celestine is durable as hell, but her buffs are decidedly meh and her CQB and Shooting are both awful for 200 pts.

Greyfax is pretty alright I guess. Again I get the feeling of "meh."

Celestine was already a beast, now she also wrecks vehicles pretty easily. 200 pts well spent.

Eeehhh. I really don't think the Gemini superior add much more than durability... which she already had a lot of.

And she only wrecks vehicles if she gets that far. I think it's telling that her versus Belisarius Cawl goes in Cawl's favor monstrously, and as I mentioned before, Cawl's not even that spectacular except his toughness.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Eeehhh. I really don't think the Gemini superior add much more than durability... which she already had a lot of.

And she only wrecks vehicles if she gets that far. I think it's telling that her versus Belisarius Cawl goes in Cawl's favor monstrously, and as I mentioned before, Cawl's not even that spectacular except his toughness.

Which means she'll have an easier time making it to the meelee. Also, said geminae superiors can contribute to the duel and come back.

"Contribute to the duel" with strength 3 AP3 attacks vs a T6 2+ save with re-rollable FNP...

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
"Contribute to the duel" with strength 3 AP3 attacks vs a T6 2+ save with re-rollable FNP...

Or as 4 ablative wounds and half a dozen (if barely a scratch in the paintjob) attacks.

Once you remember that celestine has 9 wounds and recovers 2 of those a round you see things in a more positive light.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Eeehhh. I really don't think the Gemini superior add much more than durability... which she already had a lot of.

And she only wrecks vehicles if she gets that far. I think it's telling that her versus Belisarius Cawl goes in Cawl's favor monstrously, and as I mentioned before, Cawl's not even that spectacular except his toughness.

If you can't get Celestine to a vehicle, just stick to painting maybe.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Eeehhh. I really don't think the Gemini superior add much more than durability... which she already had a lot of.

And she only wrecks vehicles if she gets that far. I think it's telling that her versus Belisarius Cawl goes in Cawl's favor monstrously, and as I mentioned before, Cawl's not even that spectacular except his toughness.

You don't think an extra 4 T3 3+/4++ wounds add that much durability?

With both Gemini it will take ~16 BS4 Scatter Lasers to kill her in one round of shooting, which cost 432 points. So it takes more than double her points worth of Jetbikes to kill her in a single round. And if they don't kill her in a single round then a Gemini will get resurrected and so the next turn they have to kill that again before they can finish her off.

And she isn't going to be going around on her own. She'll probably have a unit of Seraphim with her giving her even more ablative wounds.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Eeehhh. I really don't think the Gemini superior add much more than durability... which she already had a lot of.

And she only wrecks vehicles if she gets that far. I think it's telling that her versus Belisarius Cawl goes in Cawl's favor monstrously, and as I mentioned before, Cawl's not even that spectacular except his toughness.

You don't think an extra 4 T3 3+/4++ wounds add that much durability?

With both Gemini it will take ~16 BS4 Scatter Lasers to kill her in one round of shooting, which cost 432 points. So it takes more than double her points worth of Jetbikes to kill her in a single round. And if they don't kill her in a single round then a Gemini will get resurrected and so the next turn they have to kill that again before they can finish her off.

And she isn't going to be going around on her own. She'll probably have a unit of Seraphim with her giving her even more ablative wounds.

Or whatever other bodyguards you have for her. You can take her in any Imperial army can't you?

pm713 wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Eeehhh. I really don't think the Gemini superior add much more than durability... which she already had a lot of.

And she only wrecks vehicles if she gets that far. I think it's telling that her versus Belisarius Cawl goes in Cawl's favor monstrously, and as I mentioned before, Cawl's not even that spectacular except his toughness.

You don't think an extra 4 T3 3+/4++ wounds add that much durability?

With both Gemini it will take ~16 BS4 Scatter Lasers to kill her in one round of shooting, which cost 432 points. So it takes more than double her points worth of Jetbikes to kill her in a single round. And if they don't kill her in a single round then a Gemini will get resurrected and so the next turn they have to kill that again before they can finish her off.

And she isn't going to be going around on her own. She'll probably have a unit of Seraphim with her giving her even more ablative wounds.

Or whatever other bodyguards you have for her. You can take her in any Imperial army can't you?

You could, but if all you want is ablative wounds then you want the cheapest jump infantry (or Bikes, stuff which can keep up) you can get. I don't have any imperial codices with me at the moment, are any of the space marine variant jump infantry cheaper than seraphimm (1W T4 in power armour dies the same to S6 as 1W T3 in power armour, after all)?

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Eeehhh. I really don't think the Gemini superior add much more than durability... which she already had a lot of.

And she only wrecks vehicles if she gets that far. I think it's telling that her versus Belisarius Cawl goes in Cawl's favor monstrously, and as I mentioned before, Cawl's not even that spectacular except his toughness.

You don't think an extra 4 T3 3+/4++ wounds add that much durability?

With both Gemini it will take ~16 BS4 Scatter Lasers to kill her in one round of shooting, which cost 432 points. So it takes more than double her points worth of Jetbikes to kill her in a single round. And if they don't kill her in a single round then a Gemini will get resurrected and so the next turn they have to kill that again before they can finish her off.

And she isn't going to be going around on her own. She'll probably have a unit of Seraphim with her giving her even more ablative wounds.

Or whatever other bodyguards you have for her. You can take her in any Imperial army can't you?

You could, but if all you want is ablative wounds then you want the cheapest jump infantry (or Bikes, stuff which can keep up) you can get. I don't have any imperial codices with me at the moment, are any of the space marine variant jump infantry cheaper than seraphimm (1W T4 in power armour dies the same to S6 as 1W T3 in power armour, after all)?

I don't know but I'd probably use Assault Marines over Seraphim because they're much cheaper to get model wise than Seraphim. Plus they aren't metal.

Champions of Fenris now has access to one of the funniest detachable ministars now thanks to Celestine.

Her, 2 Iron Priests w/ Cyberwolves, and a unit of Fenrisian Wolves = comedy. Put the Geminae in front for additional Look Out Sir shenanigans, and you get a unit with majority toughness 5, wounded on 6s by grav, which can split off into three different units.
Add a runepriest.

If she is in a T4 unit she will get T4 due to the majority toughness rule. Won't help against scatters but will help against everything else below st6 (until you get past the bodyguards then her 2+ save will make a difference).
I would still use her as a bullet catcher if taking her at the front of my Death co. Each wound she takes saves a 23pt model (or two 23pt models when getting to her 2+ saves), which with 9 wounds will save 310.5pts (4x23 + 9.5x23) worth of wounds on average and 264.5pts (2x23 + 9.5x23) against scatters (probably more if factoring in powerfists)... and then she will come back 11/12 times. And will also be granting the squad a 4++ against the nastier stuff too against st6+ ap2/1 weapons she will still be saving 264.5pts due to requiring twice as many wounds like she did before (the difference of ratio of models lost between a 2+ and 3+ compared to a 4++ and no save is the same). Against ap3 st5-/6+ weapons she would be saving 724.5/678.5pts respectively (23x4/x2 + 27.5 x 23). So will have made her points back as a bullet catcher (if she 1st time 'dies') before we factor in all her buffs and assault potential.
When it comes to the bodyguards, 8 s3 ap3 attacks on the charge usually hitting on a 3+ and then with rerolls because of the squads chaplain will be a nice addition before you even factor in Celestine's attacks. Whilst her heavy support buff allows you to throw devestators with grav/mms forward in a rhino or pod without losing any effectiveness (basically a skyhammer with no AMs). Her hit and run is massive for the +2 attacks, +1S, +1I and rerolls DC get from charging, and she can give DC counter-attack if it somehow looks like they will be charged.

My maths above is slightly off as I did not account for DCs Fnp (and I cba to do it all again), so the points saved will be slightly lower, but you get the drift.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MagicJuggler wrote:
Champions of Fenris now has access to one of the funniest detachable ministars now thanks to Celestine.

Her, 2 Iron Priests w/ Cyberwolves, and a unit of Fenrisian Wolves = comedy. Put the Geminae in front for additional Look Out Sir shenanigans, and you get a unit with majority toughness 5, wounded on 6s by grav, which can split off into three different units.
Add a runepriest.

Niiice!

 MagicJuggler wrote:
Champions of Fenris now has access to one of the funniest detachable ministars now thanks to Celestine.

Her, 2 Iron Priests w/ Cyberwolves, and a unit of Fenrisian Wolves = comedy. Put the Geminae in front for additional Look Out Sir shenanigans, and you get a unit with majority toughness 5, wounded on 6s by grav, which can split off into three different units.
Add a runepriest.

This guy gets it.

The lasgun test: equal points value of guardsmen (a squad of 40 with no upgrades) in rapid with FRFSRF will kill both bodyguards and take 3 wounds off celestine I mean, you'd obviously not want her within rapid of that many guardsmen. And you still have to deal with he resurrecting. You'd be surprised, the guardsmen actually are a decent way of taking her down, hit her with the guardsmen then dedicate some AP 2 to whittle her down. Compared to some of the other weapons anyways, and that's if you don't up her toughness with majority.

Tau, should I count the cost of markerlights? I'll do with and without BS5. 22 fire warriors will kill bodyguards and 1 to celestine, with markerlights 3 to celestine. Broadsides will suck, 0.5 to celestine, with markerlights 1.2 wounds. 4 suits with 2x plasma will deal crap, not even kill the guards. 1.6 wounds, 3 w/ ML total, so not even kill bodyguards.

8 scatlasers kill guards and 1 wound on celestine.

Crap. Do the bodyguards have EW? Should have looked that up before 10 minutes of math. That'll reasonably up the wounds of broadsides, SLs, plasma, etc. So 3 from broadsides (S7 first to kill guards), 3 from scatterlasers, 1 from markerlight plasma...

Oh man, and grav. how could I forget? 4 grav cannon/amp, with bodyguards, (3+ armor majority), guards die and 2 to celestine. without them celestine (2+ armor) takes another 0.5 wounds is fairly dead (6.5 wounds).

So, overall, reasonably durable. Will obviously rely on the 2 regenerated wounds (bodyguard respawn), again not sure if they have EW. Definitely better to spam, especially grav (which is the best shooting you can get against 2+), although if it's devastators she'll eat through them. So maybe killing her in 2-3 turns with equal points of dedicated shooting, assuming she's in LoS. Will be very dead if you use, say, double her poitns. If she hides, she'll definitely be making it into CC. The real issue, which I'm too lazy to add up, is that all she'll really be is a tarpit against dedicated CC units. Will eat through stuff with just a 3+, but against 2+ she'll just wave her sword around menacingly but just get beat on. Maybe some other time (or pretty please someone else) add up how she handles TH/SS terminators, or wulfen, or a knight that doesn't stomp her, or TWC, or whatever else your heart desires.

 kingbobbito wrote:
The lasgun test: equal points value of guardsmen (a squad of 40 with no upgrades) in rapid with FRFSRF will kill both bodyguards and take 3 wounds off celestine I mean, you'd obviously not want her within rapid of that many guardsmen. And you still have to deal with he resurrecting. You'd be surprised, the guardsmen actually are a decent way of taking her down, hit her with the guardsmen then dedicate some AP 2 to whittle her down. Compared to some of the other weapons anyways, and that's if you don't up her toughness with majority.

How do you figure that would happen, though? Celestine and her bodyguard have Jump Packs. Unless those Guardsmen are teleported in with magic, there's no way that any competent player will get within 12" of a guardsman squad unless that player is charging the guardsman squad. Or maybe the Gaurdsmen have transports that let them roll in fast enough, but then you need to account for the cost of the Transports.

Crap. Do the bodyguards have EW? Should have looked that up before 10 minutes of math. That'll reasonably up the wounds of broadsides, SLs, plasma, etc. So 3 from broadsides (S7 first to kill guards), 3 from scatterlasers, 1 from markerlight plasma...

They do not have EW.

Oh man, and grav. how could I forget? 4 grav cannon/amp, with bodyguards, (3+ armor majority), guards die and 2 to celestine. without them celestine (2+ armor) takes another 0.5 wounds is fairly dead (6.5 wounds).

Well, sure, but that's assuming that they get two uninterrupted turns of firing at Celestine, and that she doesn't regenerate her bodyguard. Neither of those things are going to happen - She is going to regenerate one (Meaning you'll still wound on 3s,) but before you get to fire twice (Assuming you can even fire once,) she's going to charge you and murder you all to death.

So, overall, reasonably durable. Will obviously rely on the 2 regenerated wounds (bodyguard respawn), again not sure if they have EW. Definitely better to spam, especially grav (which is the best shooting you can get against 2+), although if it's devastators she'll eat through them. So maybe killing her in 2-3 turns with equal points of dedicated shooting, assuming she's in LoS. Will be very dead if you use, say, double her poitns. If she hides, she'll definitely be making it into CC. The real issue, which I'm too lazy to add up, is that all she'll really be is a tarpit against dedicated CC units. Will eat through stuff with just a 3+, but against 2+ she'll just wave her sword around menacingly but just get beat on. Maybe some other time (or pretty please someone else) add up how she handles TH/SS terminators, or wulfen, or a knight that doesn't stomp her, or TWC, or whatever else your heart desires.

More durable than you're claiming, since all of your tests assume ideal firing conditions. Celestine and her guard are exceedingly mobile. And even if you do kill her once, she's got a 89% chance of standing back up, regenerating a bodyguard, and still killing you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I did the math against a few other things. TH/SS terminators will get 4 wounds per turn in Close Combat, which amounts to two dead Gemeni, and two wounds on Celestine. Assuming she charges, with the Gemeni, they will get less than half a wound on the Terminators. If we add the damage from her not-Heavy-Flamer, the damage bumps up to slightly more than half a wound. Next turn of combat, they'll kill Celestine, and she'll stand back up, rinse, and repeat. Overall, not favorable.

Against Wulfen she'll do a little better. Assuming two SS/TH, two Axes, and one leader with claws (A balanced but defensive option,) she'll get perhaps three hits with her not-heavy-flamer, amounting two two wounds, .4 of which will be suffered by a Thunder Hammer. Charge, her HoW bounces off of them, then she strikes - 6 attacks, 4 hits, 2.7 wounds, and assuming she issued a challenge, that'll kill the captain. Otherwise, she bounced off a Storm Shield ineffectually.
The Captain will get to hit, even if he died, and will get three hits, three wounds, and cause 1.5 wounds, popping 1.5 gemeni..
The Gemeni will also bounce ineffectually off of Storm Shields.
6 Axe attacks will kill the other gemeni for sure, and inflict a wound on Celestine.
6 Thunder Hammer attacks will put 1.4 more wounds on Celestine.
Next turn, Celestine dies. She'll kill one more Wulfen, maybe, but that doesn't help - She's striking at I1 due to concussive, so killing them gives bonus attacks.


TWC, it's about the same. Assuming a set of TH/SS and a couple guys with Power Mauls (My personal favorite build if I'm lite,) Celestine doesn't have the charge guaranteed, first off. Either way, 6 maul hits, 1 rending wound and 4 regular ones. Both of her Gemeni die.
The TH/SS adds another wound to Celestine. Next turn, 2.5 more wounds on Celestine, but she still causes no damage.


The overall conclusion? She will not beat any dedicated CC enemies if she fights them on their turf. She will survive more than one turn, but she won't cause a significant amount of damage, even if you count up her resurrection and do the math again, her damage is so lackluster that the results will be nigh-identical.

Waaaghpower wrote:

 kingbobbito wrote:
The lasgun test: equal points value of guardsmen (a squad of 40 with no upgrades) in rapid with FRFSRF will kill both bodyguards and take 3 wounds off celestine I mean, you'd obviously not want her within rapid of that many guardsmen. And you still have to deal with he resurrecting. You'd be surprised, the guardsmen actually are a decent way of taking her down, hit her with the guardsmen then dedicate some AP 2 to whittle her down. Compared to some of the other weapons anyways, and that's if you don't up her toughness with majority.

How do you figure that would happen, though? Celestine and her bodyguard have Jump Packs. Unless those Guardsmen are teleported in with magic, there's no way that any competent player will get within 12" of a guardsman squad unless that player is charging the guardsman squad. Or maybe the Gaurdsmen have transports that let them roll in fast enough, but then you need to account for the cost of the Transports.

I did forget to account for only a portion having rapid fire, but it's very likely that celestine ends somewhere within 15" of them though, such as ending a CC stuck with her pants down to their firing, or if she is trying to charge guard that have an aegis and she fails a charge.

Oh man, and grav. how could I forget? 4 grav cannon/amp, with bodyguards, (3+ armor majority), guards die and 2 to celestine. without them celestine (2+ armor) takes another 0.5 wounds is fairly dead (6.5 wounds).

Well, sure, but that's assuming that they get two uninterrupted turns of firing at Celestine, and that she doesn't regenerate her bodyguard. Neither of those things are going to happen - She is going to regenerate one (Meaning you'll still wound on 3s,) but before you get to fire twice (Assuming you can even fire once,) she's going to charge you and murder you all to death.

As with all of these, it doesn't have to be a vacuum. Here I was assuming that you'd take out the reasonably squishy guards with bolters or something cheap and wreck her with the grav in one turn. Depending on what army she's rolling with you can focus fire on a model hurtling towards you instead of firing at stuff further back/out of range. She will most likely murder their faces off if they aren't at max range though, fully agree.

So, overall, reasonably durable. Will obviously rely on the 2 regenerated wounds (bodyguard respawn), again not sure if they have EW. Definitely better to spam, especially grav (which is the best shooting you can get against 2+), although if it's devastators she'll eat through them. So maybe killing her in 2-3 turns with equal points of dedicated shooting, assuming she's in LoS. Will be very dead if you use, say, double her poitns. If she hides, she'll definitely be making it into CC. The real issue, which I'm too lazy to add up, is that all she'll really be is a tarpit against dedicated CC units. Will eat through stuff with just a 3+, but against 2+ she'll just wave her sword around menacingly but just get beat on. Maybe some other time (or pretty please someone else) add up how she handles TH/SS terminators, or wulfen, or a knight that doesn't stomp her, or TWC, or whatever else your heart desires.

More durable than you're claiming, since all of your tests assume ideal firing conditions. Celestine and her guard are exceedingly mobile. And even if you do kill her once, she's got a 89% chance of standing back up, regenerating a bodyguard, and still killing you.

As above, these aren't common conditions unless there's not much terrain or she gets stuck out in the open after she kills a squad. Sorry if I sounded like I was underestimating her, I know full well that with the revive she'll murder at least one more squad before you can gun her down. It's just that very rarely do you only fire one squad at the murderer of worlds, two units shooting at her, such as tacs first (to kill the guards) means a number of things can take her down in a turn or 2. That or you just charge her with melee death squad or squish her a LoW.

I do genuinely question why her statline is so crazy, is this the future of all HQs? I kind of want my DA HQs to not be so.... mediocre. Belial and his terminator suicide squad, Sammael and his never firing plasma cannon, and Azrael who will just get murdered by Celestine since they're both flailing around with AP3 but she's a better fighter in every way.

I doubt Celestine is going to be standard for Imperial HQ's. That would just lead to insanity for other HQ's.

Space marine IH command squad. Even if you don't go full smashfether you attach her and any ap2 weapon (maybe that sweet sword) to the IH command squad and she can give herself furious charge along with the CS and they'll have hatred if you take the castellan which is a lovely detachment.

Also think about this, Celestines wound jump isn't a lookout sir and the Geminii are characters so what you could do is put SmashFether next to the geminii on one flank and celestine on the other and something big and ap2 comes at celestine you could shunt it to the geminii and still have a 50/50 to LOS it to Smashfether.

For locals or more casual meta's she can go into vanguard vets, Sanguinary guard. thunderwolves, Deathcompany, etc, etc and offer huge bonuses.

She's extremely good for her points and her HQ and Elite bonuses are incredible (HS is solid but more for an SoB army than a SM one...although...) But she's not the be all end all of HQs. Except for forgetting to give her AoF, she's pretty well designed.

Celestine is going to be a MEQ and armor harasser.

Nobody is going to get her stuck in with terminators. That's just silly.

If you theoryhammer a bit, celestine can pretty reliably down an imperial knight. If she's lucky than two. And she still has H&R and speed to avoid any 2+.

If you think she's not resilient enough, it takes > 1000 pts of scatterbikers to kill her in one volley. And the longer you try to kill her, the more girls she resurrects.

She's top cheeze.

she's really boot that strong. what people are missing:

gemina must take wounds first.
gemina are not eternal warrior
gemina are not independent characters.
gemina have 3+ save

neither celestine not.grmina has ap2
celestine is str5, gemina str 3.
3 scatbikes will kill gaming in one turn.

they'll clean marines real good, and that's about it.

EDIT: If you can kill 2 marines and 5 terminators you can kill celestine.

 Fruzzle wrote:
she's really boot that strong. what people are missing:

gemina must take wounds first.
gemina are not eternal warrior
gemina are not independent characters.
gemina have 3+ save

neither celestine not.grmina has ap2
celestine is str5, gemina str 3.
3 scatbikes will kill gaming in one turn.

they'll clean marines real good, and that's about it.

EDIT: If you can kill 2 marines and 5 terminators you can kill celestine.

Except that 3 Scatbikes won't actually put as much of a dent in them as you claim - See, you have to kill the gemeni and put wounds on Celestine. Otherwise, they're just going to regenerate. We're not missing anything. It's not just that the units are durable, it's that they regenerate, and are fast enough to chase down enemies or run away as needed.
Let's try an equal points cost of Scatterbikes against Celestine and her Geminae. 9 Scatterbikes gets 36 shots, which is 24 hits. Of those 24 hits, you get 20 wounds. 6 of those wounds is all you need to kill the Geminae, then it's another 14 wounds against Celestine - Just over 2 wounds on her.
But, now it's Celestine's turn, and she gets to regenerate a Geminae.
So, you shoot again. This time, you manage to kill the Geminae and put just under wounds on her. Yay, she's dead!
Except she gets back up, regenerates another Geminae, and continues on her merry way.
You kill the Geminae AGAIN, and then put three more wounds on her. She gets that Geminae back up.
You kill the Geminae for a fourth time, and finally put Celestine down for good.

That's what it takes. Four uninterrupted turns of fire that isn't blocked or weakened by anything, assuming you take no damage in return, with a unit that is generally considered to be OP in its own right and that is ideally suited to killing Celestine.

If Celestine manages to assault one of your units (Difficult, but certainly not unheard of,) then that unit is going to die, your damage output is going to be reduced, and instead of putting 2-3 wounds on Celestine you're going to be putting maybe one on her. If she kills that unit early enough, you aren't even going to be able to kill her.


And this is also assuming that she's standing out in a vacuum, unsupported, and without anyone else in her army. (Or yours, I suppose, but that gets into a big can of worms that doesn't need to be opened right now about army balance and tactics.)