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2017/01/14 16:41:58
Subject: Guns and Military Exhibitions and children.
1. Should childrens (especially those below 10 years of age) be allowed to enter Weapons and Military Exhibitions? or Is it sensible to host such events in a national children's day?
Spoiler:
Trigger Happy: Thai Children Get Hands on Tanks, Jets, Guns for Children’s Day (Photos)
BANGKOK — Guarding his M60A3 tank with pride and a sense of mission is Master Sgt. 1st Class Techasit Yoophagdee.
Techasit, 53, is not at war, but insisted Saturday from beside his tank at the the 2nd Cavalry Division King’s Guard on Phaholyothin Road, where children played on and with heavy weapons, that his annual mission on National Children’s Day is just as important.
“What we’re doing is familiarizing them with soldiers and weaponry. By familiarizing them, they learn to love soldiers and even become soldiers,” he said as children as young as 3 take turns crawling atop beloved tank and smiling for their parents’ photos.
Enthusiasm by the Barrel
Enthusiasm by the Barrel
Arrayed around them a veritable playground for making war: more tanks, artillery, armored vehicles, machine guns, even a Black Hawk helicopter for the children. It’s noisy as many parents take photos of their young children climbing the tanks or holding M16 or Israeli-made TAR-21 Tavor assault rifles.
Techasit, who is based just north of the capital in Saraburi province, said he himself is a product of such conditioning. His late father, also an army officer, took him to see the guns and tanks on Children’s Day after he turned 10.
By the time he turned 17 he knew he wanted to be a soldier. His mission for the day, once a year now, is to leave a lasting positive impression on the hundreds of children visiting the place, and his tank in particular.
Master Sgt. 1st Class Techasit Yoophagdee poses before his M60A3 battle tank Saturday at the 2nd Cavalry Division King’s Guard grounds in Bangkok.
Master Sgt. 1st Class Techasit Yoophagdee poses before his M60A3 battle tank Saturday at the 2nd Cavalry Division King’s Guard grounds in Bangkok.
“We convince them that these are the things used to defend our country, and they must be studious so they can protect our nation.”
Admittedly, the sergeant said most children brought today were simply too young to learn much of anything
“They should be at least older than 7 or 8 to really be able to learn,” he said, pointing out that most of the little ones getting excited by their exposure to weapon systems were 5 or even younger. “Their parents at least take photos and let their children look at it when they grow up, so they will have a good impression. If 100 showed up and 10 became soldiers when they grew up, then that’s worth it.”
The sergeant was right. Two mothers with 5 year olds said it was their decision to take their sons to see tanks instead of toys on Children’s Day. The children didn’t really say anything.
Room to Grow Into
Room to Grow Into
“We will just visit this place for the day,” Pimpa Srathongthong who dressed her 5-year-old son in fatigues. “My son just wanted to climb up tanks.”
When asked whether he liked coming, the child, Nitaphat, smiled but didn’t elaborate.
The whole business of displaying military weapons for children to touch, fondle and fantasize about is controversial, however, as Thailand is now under years-long military rule following the least of its dozen “successful” military coups in eight decades.
Parit Chiwarak, 18, a well-known student activist said exposing children to weapons of war inculcates them to a militarized, autocratic and violent culture.
“So when the military rules the country, we are used to it, actually, since our childhoods,” Parit said.
Pimpa Srathongthong brings her boy, 5, in mini-fatigues to the 2nd Cavalry Division King’s Guard for Children's Day on Saturday in Bangkok.
Pimpa Srathongthong brings her boy, 5, in mini-fatigues to the 2nd Cavalry Division King’s Guard for Children’s Day on Saturday in Bangkok.
Back to Techasit, the master sergeant said that between 8am and noon, only one child asked him some details about his tank. He was about 10.
“He asked me what kind of engine the tank uses. He wore eyeglasses and looked rather nerdy,” he said.
The sergeant looked eager to proselytize to more children, but most were simply too young to understand that it was equipped with automatic target tracking, a laser rangefinder and thermal body detector camera, all upgrades made last year to his U.S.-made battle tank last year by an Israeli firm.
His old tank, Serial No. 31701, was one of the first five to be retrofitted.
How much did those upgrades made under the military regime cost the taxpayer?
“I won’t answer. It’s not my duty to answer. It’s a matter for the big officers,” he said. “I have no duty to answer the question.”
The answer. by an NCO who assigned to the Army PR duty said. 'Yes', if asking the enlightened activist, it will be 'No'
I will answer you a bit later. but I've never been in these exhibitions when I was very very young. My parents tend to keep me away from militarism.
2. In the USA. Does the US Military allowed kids to enter such exhibitions with parents attended?
3. Also in the US of A. In any gunshows or gun fests, are kids allowed to gets a hand on firearms or even enter the events when accompanying their parents?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/14 16:42:53
1. Yes. I feel it is important that children learn what the military is and why it exists. There's a lot of educational value even from just an engineering or historical perspective. Children need to be taught the reality of the world and the nature of the human race. We are a barbaric and violent species sometimes. Hiding them from this in a padded safe space does more harm than good imho.
2. Yes.
3. Depends on the event, but all the ones I've been to they can enter with an adult but cannot handle firearms.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/14 18:21:28
"The Omnissiah is my Moderati"
2017/01/14 18:20:14
Subject: Guns and Military Exhibitions and children.
I was climbing over the turrets in Bovington car park when I was five. When they held the 50th D-Day celebrations in Weymouth I got to climb inside several vehicles, modern and old, probably something I'm not likely to do often. Museums and exhibitions are for learning. Any parent taking their children to museums should be commended, its an opportunity many children are starved of.
2017/01/14 20:04:25
Subject: Re:Guns and Military Exhibitions and children.
Nice to see people thinking this is a positive thing! Kids should be exposed to this stuff, as it is educational. I used to go to a local airshow with my dad, and later my whole family, every year when I was little. The first time I went, I was 6, and the Blue Angels did the finale for the airshow. I thought it was the coolest thing I had ever seen (but damn those jets were loud!).
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2017/01/14 20:34:23
Subject: Re:Guns and Military Exhibitions and children.
ZergSmasher wrote: Nice to see people thinking this is a positive thing! Kids should be exposed to this stuff, as it is educational. I used to go to a local airshow with my dad, and later my whole family, every year when I was little. The first time I went, I was 6, and the Blue Angels did the finale for the airshow. I thought it was the coolest thing I had ever seen (but damn those jets were loud!).
Highlight of my youth was at Mildenhall airshow where I got to get up close to the jets I had posters of on my walls. I chatted to A-10 pilots who knew where I was on their flight path to the practice range! Got to look down the barrel of the Avenger too.
Take your kids to museums. Get them involved, be it a country house, a gallery, a local history of turnip growing (not as exciting as a jet that feths tanks).
2017/01/14 23:03:28
Subject: Guns and Military Exhibitions and children.
Yes. I'm a pacifist, but also have an interest in weapons and war. As a child I went to museums and air shows, I built model planes (unsurprisingly) played war games and shot stuff with my air guns. I still do most of those things. I see no problem with children going to such things, it all depends on how it is presented. A nationalistic, biased, exhibit designed as propaganda for your country and encourage jingoistic attitudes, no. An exhibit showing facts without bias (yes, I know, there will always be bias, but there must be a good attempt at neutrality) is a good thing.
The article in question seems like a slightly worrying exhibit, but that may well be either bias of the reporting in selected quotes or something is confused in the language being used.
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2017/01/14 23:20:39
Subject: Guns and Military Exhibitions and children.
Verviedi wrote: Yes, children should learn to respect guns, and learn actual facts about them, such as how to safely use them.
Indeed. Much of the fear associated with them stems from ignorance and accidents due to unsafe handling. Education is key here, rather than fearmongering.
"The Omnissiah is my Moderati"
2017/01/15 00:14:19
Subject: Re:Guns and Military Exhibitions and children.
The problem with guns is people shooting each other, whether by accident or on purpose. It's completely rational to be fearful of that happening if there are a lot of guns around. However, this is not the topic. The topic is whether children should be taken to military and naval events.
Speaking personally, I really enjoyed as a child my father taking me to events such as the Royal Tournament, the Army Shows, Bovington Tank Museum, Royal Navy ship open days and open days by foreign navy ships on courtesy visits to the UK. (Often USN.) Also air shows of various types.
I failed to become a crazed warmonger. Maybe some other youngsters were adversely affected, but all in all I think it is fairly non-impactful.
Yeah. If you are going to be living in a country full of weapons, it is best to teach kids all about them as soon as possible. Exhibitions can be a great place for that.
Also, even in a country that as is blissfully devoid of weapons as the Netherlands, kids are allowed to attend military exhibitions. Boys just love that stuff. I can't see how watching warships, fighter jets or tanks would possibly be harmful in any way. I don't think it ever did me any harm.
Error 404: Interesting signature not found
2017/01/15 04:28:25
Subject: Guns and Military Exhibitions and children.
I enjoyed a good old air show when I was a kid in the UK. There was an air force (don't know if it was the US base there or a British one don't really remember) where I could go and see modern and historical military aircraft. I got to climb into a B-17! Awesome stuff
Is there any other answer to give for the first part of question 1?
Is it sensible? moderately. It is a Thai event so the norms are different.
My answer to this is..... As long as the Military doesn't 'politically brainwash' any visiting kids. It's okay as long as military-themed toys are legal. (And in Thailand. yes). But if any militarymen assigned to the event keep preaching these kids that the Military deserves to be a caste devoid of councilmen influence (or to justify any 'Military Interventions' in any political crisis). The answer is .. No.
I want a foreign persepective towards this event where the criticisms spoken by the enlightened activists came to exists in a past few years whether is this kinda event is also a military propaganda against those who seek to marginalize their political power and inflences.
Well I can only speak for myself here in the U.K, and see nothing wrong with taking children to events and museums that run things. My four year old has been on many trips to bovington and loves going to Tankfest. Even getting to hold weapons that the army stands have on display.
Living close to a naval airbase and what was westlands, he's used to seeing military vehicles most days and loves to talk about how things work, even pays close attention to all the displays he goes to. Hell later talks for hours about the things he's seen and learnt. But most of all if I thought it was doing him any harm I wouldn't take him.
Ps that pic is too cool Kilkrazy.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/15 06:58:47
2017/01/15 08:57:41
Subject: Guns and Military Exhibitions and children.
I'm completely apathetic to the 2nd amendment, and my only response here is why shouldn't children be allowed? Even if they are handling firearms children would be the least likely to accidentally injure someone because there would be so many people watching and examining every step. Carelessness causes far more accidents than ignorance.
Is there any other answer to give for the first part of question 1?
Is it sensible? moderately. It is a Thai event so the norms are different.
My answer to this is..... As long as the Military doesn't 'politically brainwash' any visiting kids. It's okay as long as military-themed toys are legal. (And in Thailand. yes). But if any militarymen assigned to the event keep preaching these kids that the Military deserves to be a caste devoid of councilmen influence (or to justify any 'Military Interventions' in any political crisis). The answer is .. No.
I want a foreign persepective towards this event where the criticisms spoken by the enlightened activists came to exists in a past few years whether is this kinda event is also a military propaganda against those who seek to marginalize their political power and inflences.
This particular event is propaganda, the military exhibition and show is just extra icing on top of a larger Thai cake.
In general, for cultural education it is a necessity for children( and adults) to be exposed to as much as possible.
2. Yes, there are events like that here. And mueseums focused on military history.
3. Yes, everything has trigger locks and they are extremely regulated. But in fact, I'm going to one next weekend.
It really depends on the State though. This is all from a midwesterners perspective.
This pretty much.
Military history is a valuable thing to know, and makes for excellent exhibitions.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
xKillGorex wrote: Well I can only speak for myself here in the U.K, and see nothing wrong with taking children to events and museums that run things. My four year old has been on many trips to bovington and loves going to Tankfest. Even getting to hold weapons that the army stands have on display.
Living close to a naval airbase and what was westlands, he's used to seeing military vehicles most days and loves to talk about how things work, even pays close attention to all the displays he goes to. Hell later talks for hours about the things he's seen and learnt. But most of all if I thought it was doing him any harm I wouldn't take him.
Ps that pic is too cool Kilkrazy.
Color me green with envy, I've always wanted to go to Bovington.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/15 11:46:37
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2017/01/15 12:21:54
Subject: Re:Guns and Military Exhibitions and children.
Got a chance to play with a vintage Machine Gun (WW1, please don't ask me the make or model, as I simply don't know).
What struck me was how easy it was. Pull the handle to engage, index fingers pull the safety forward, thumbs depress the firing plate. And all those years ago? Dozens of men met their end for no readily apparent reason.
Left a strong anti-war impression on me that lasts to this day. Not anti-military mark you, I get the defence need, but anti-war. It's always the young that do the dying.
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I think one of the things that the brits amongst us need to remember is that much of our military museums, exhibitions and air shows have a historical slant. The purpose of them is less to show off our military might, but to show off our military history. Yes, we can see the modern machines of war at the exhibitions, but it is always with an element of where they came from.
With regards to gun shows, that is something very different (imo), you aren't showing off all these historic weapons with the history of when they were used and in which battles. You are showing off a product for people to buy. I freely admit living in the UK I have never been to a gun show, but having seen a few programmes on tv, it tends to be a case of showing off the power of the guns, not their history. US guys and gals, feel free to correct me on that if I'm way out.
I also think with the UK it is very clear these are military machines and weapons. I think in the US (and many other countries) those lines can get a bit blurred. Firearms are the obvious area where the lines blur - but in the US if you have enough money you can buy yourself reasonably modern military equipment (deactivated) such as fighters.
icn1982 wrote: With regards to gun shows, that is something very different (imo), you aren't showing off all these historic weapons with the history of when they were used and in which battles. You are showing off a product for people to buy. I freely admit living in the UK I have never been to a gun show, but having seen a few programmes on tv, it tends to be a case of showing off the power of the guns, not their history. US guys and gals, feel free to correct me on that if I'm way out.
Gun shows are a place where people buy, sell and trade. Mostly firearms, but also associated accoutrements. Not sure what you mean by "the power of the guns" (as there is no firing of weapons at shows), but you see the typical sales pitches you would see in a store.
However, there is a much more historical presence than you would find in most stores. Lots of people have military surplus to show and/or for sale. From WW1 rifles to Korean War medals, Civil War muskets to WW2 flags, all manner of historical items are floating around and most people are more than happy to go into great detail about their history and operation.
"The Omnissiah is my Moderati"
2017/01/15 15:28:50
Subject: Re:Guns and Military Exhibitions and children.
icn1982 wrote: I think one of the things that the brits amongst us need to remember is that much of our military museums, exhibitions and air shows have a historical slant. The purpose of them is less to show off our military might, but to show off our military history. Yes, we can see the modern machines of war at the exhibitions, but it is always with an element of where they came from.
Oh I don't know there's bigger showings of modern day gear now at shows than there used to be, aimed mostly at showing people what our guys are using these days and Getting support behind them.
2017/01/15 16:08:46
Subject: Guns and Military Exhibitions and children.
Hell, I had my kids climbing all over tanks and cannon at various museums and similar places at very young ages, my sons and daughter.
Heck, my unit used to have 'family days' where we used cammo sticks to paint kids faces and gave them tank and scout hummer rides. They all had a blast.
Here is Daughter stomping on Saddam:
And on a tank:
At one point on the job I have now we had a couple Strykers to play with. I got permission to open up the bay on a Saturday to let my sons climb all over them.
Automatically Appended Next Post: We also used to have a day on the tank ranges where families could come watch their troopers go through a gunnery table and share a meal with them afterwards.
We also sometimes were allowed to have families come watch some of the big combined arms live fire exercises (CALFEX) to see a lot of cool stuff in action. Kids love it, spouses got to see what their troopers do 'at work'.
We always had static displays so the kids could climb vehicles, see how they work, had small arms/machine guns they could handle and learn about.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Daughter 'piloting' a CH-47F:
Automatically Appended Next Post: I've also taken the kids to gun shows.
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2017/01/15 16:31:56
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2017/01/15 16:57:04
Subject: Guns and Military Exhibitions and children.
My unit had family does also. Tanks, helicopters and transports would be displayed. We also displayed all the weapons carried in a line company. Since I was at 29 palms with lots of open desert they were even letting people drive some of the transports.
2017/01/15 19:22:25
Subject: Guns and Military Exhibitions and children.
I don't think there is anything wrong with letting kids attend guns and military exhibitions. I think it is important that we study and examine our histories, and that includes our military histories.
One can probably make an argument about "glorifying military" vs honoring military, and I do think that this could be a discussion worth having but it would also depend on the age of the audience involved. But as a pretty general rule of thumb there really isn't anything wrong with it at all. I feel the same about military events like that as I do about community events that we used to organize when I volunteered for the fire department where we let kids climb over our firetrucks and let them spray water and where kids also got to meet with the police and sheriff departments, watch the medical helicopter land and take off, and watch us cut a car apart with the jaws of life. The military is part of the community, from giant military bases to citizen soldiers working next to you at your job. Getting to know your neighbor, and learning what they do for your community is always a good thing.
I've been to the 45th Infantry museum here in Oklahoma City quite a few times, and it's a great museum. I went to a few of the events that the US military put on for the public while still living in Germany as a child. I've been to a few battlegrounds. I've yet to have a bad experience at any of them.
2017/01/15 21:45:30
Subject: Guns and Military Exhibitions and children.
Most surreal one for me would have been the cu chi tunnels in Vietnam. Very tight and hot crawling down underground but very cool by the same token.
Saying that there were a few sights in the war remnant museum in Ho Chi Minh city that cut close to the bone but I think that place was set up to do just that.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/15 21:46:16
2017/01/16 06:44:30
Subject: Re:Guns and Military Exhibitions and children.
icn1982 wrote: With regards to gun shows, that is something very different (imo), you aren't showing off all these historic weapons with the history of when they were used and in which battles. You are showing off a product for people to buy. I freely admit living in the UK I have never been to a gun show, but having seen a few programmes on tv, it tends to be a case of showing off the power of the guns, not their history. US guys and gals, feel free to correct me on that if I'm way out.
Gun shows are a place where people buy, sell and trade. Mostly firearms, but also associated accoutrements. Not sure what you mean by "the power of the guns" (as there is no firing of weapons at shows), but you see the typical sales pitches you would see in a store.
However, there is a much more historical presence than you would find in most stores. Lots of people have military surplus to show and/or for sale. From WW1 rifles to Korean War medals, Civil War muskets to WW2 flags, all manner of historical items are floating around and most people are more than happy to go into great detail about their history and operation.
In my anecdotal experience there is a big dash of history at gun shows.
I wonder if on TV they would be more likely to show something like SHOT Show? That would have all the new guns and a firing range, but IIRC it is limited to industry and press and is not representative of what we think of as a "gun show" in the U.S.
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2017/01/16 11:29:36
Subject: Guns and Military Exhibitions and children.
Yes, industry events like SHOT and the like are purely promotional events. Maybe that's what icn1982 saw. That's not what we think of as a gun show. A typical gun show is more like a "bring and buy", only with trigger locks and paperwork
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