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Can't have an allied detachment the same faction as your primary.

Then ignore me!

He charged immediately after Drop Podding? That's against the rules.

 IR0N wrote:
Sorry no, I think he dropped and jumped out and shot at me. Then next turn charged me.

That's allowed.

And why not? A Flayer lord would be cool as hell.

 vipoid wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
And why not? A Flayer lord would be cool as hell.

Yeah, it would be fun to have options like that.

That's an issue with Necrons. They're as old or older than the Eldar, as advanced, and yet have MAYBE three options per unit. Usually less.

 vipoid wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
That's an issue with Necrons. They're as old or older than the Eldar, as advanced, and yet have MAYBE three options per unit. Usually less.

To be fair, that was because most of them were meant to be little more than automatons - they didn't have the minds for customisation.

The real issue is that the main area of customisation in our army is supposed to be the HQ section, yet that has been stripped away also, leaving us with basically nothing.

Warriors, sure.

Immortals... I guess.

But Praetorians? Lychguard? Stalkers? Why can't I customize them with more than two choices? (Okay, Stalker does have, what? 3 guns?)

4+ Invuln versus QS as compared to some typical weapons:

Power Fist, -3 AP, d3 Damage
3 hits are 2 wounds against an OLord, is 1 unsaved wound, is d3 damage.
3 hits are 2 wounds against a CCB, is 1.67 unsaved wounds, is 1.38 (times d3) damage.

Lascannon, -3 AP, d6 damage
3 hits are 2 wounds against an OLord, is 1 unsaved wound, is d6 damage.
3 hits are 2 wounds against a CCB, is 1.67 unsaved wounds, is .97 (times d6) damage.

Thunder Hammer
3 hits are 2 wounds against an OLord, is 1 unsaved wound, is 3 damage.
3 hits are 2 wounds against a CCB, is 1.67 unsaved wounds, is 3.36 damage.

Krak Missile
3 hits are 2 wounds against an OLord, is 1 unsaved wound, is d6 damage.
3 hits are 2 wounds against a CCB, is 1.33 unsaved wounds, is .89 (times d6) damage.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
What about plasma though? Players who know what they are doing will not use high damage weapons against QS, and instead use low damage - high rend - high strength weapons, like plasma, autocannons, starcannons, etc.

Plasma, -3 AP, 1 Damage
3 hits are 2 wounds against an OLord, is 1 unsaved wound, is 1 damage.
3 hits are 2 wounds against a CCB, is 1.67 unsaved wounds, is 1.67 damage.

Overcharged Plasma, -3 AP, 2 Damage
3 hits are 2 wounds against an OLord, is 1 unsaved wound, is 2 damage.
3 hits are 2 wounds against a CCB, is 1.67 unsaved wounds, is 2.78 damage.

Lychguard are 2 Attacks base, right? At S7, AP-3, D2?

Whereas Flayed Ones are 4 Attacks base? At S4, AP0, D1, Shred?

If that's right, I can do the math.

Okay, so, 7 Lychguard (with the buff) put out 21 attacks, for 14 hits.

10 Flayed Ones (with buff) put out 50 attacks, for 33.33 hits.

Against Guardsmen (T3, 5+):
Lychguard: 11.67 wounds
Flayed Ones: 19.75 wounds

Against Skitarii (T3, 4+, 6++):
Lychguard: 9.73 wounds
Flayed Ones: 14.81 wounds

Against Sisters (T3, 3+, 6++):
Lychguard: 9.73 wounds
Flayed Ones: 9.88 wounds

Against Boyz (T4, 6+):
Lychguard: 9.33 wounds
Flayed Ones: 20.83

Against Scouts (T4, 4+):
Lychguard: 9.33 wounds
Flayed Ones: 12.50 wounds

Against Marines (T4, 3+):
Lychguard: 9.33 wounds
Flayed Ones: 8.33 wounds

Against Terminators (T4, 2+, 5++, 2 wounds):
Lychguard: 6.22 wounds (for 6.22 dead)
Flayed Ones: 4.17 wounds (for 2.09 dead)

Against a Starweaver (T5, 4++, 6 wounds):
Lychguard: 4.67 wounds (for one dead Starweaver)
Flayed Ones: 9.26 wounds (for one dead Starweaver)

Against a Rhino (T7, 3+, 11 wounds?):
Lychguard: 7 wounds (for one dead Rhino)
Flayed Ones: 6.17 wounds (for a living Rhino)

Against a Russ (T8, 3+, 12 wounds):
Lychgaurd: 4.67 wounds (for 9.33 damage dealt, or a crippled Russ)
Flayed Ones: 3.39 wounds (for a functioning Russ)

Against a Landraider (T8, 2+, 20 wounds?)
Lychguard: 3.89 wounds (for 7.78 damage dealt)
Flayed Ones: 1.70 wounds

I'm pretty sure that two abilities that are EXACTLY the same, including name, do not stack.

We don't know yet.

v0iddrgn wrote:
Can you put a C'tan in a Ghost Ark?

Check your book. The answer to that is really damn easy.

 Odrankt wrote:
If it gets FaA in our favor they will be sorry they called me a cheater and rule bender

I mean, they might be. But probably not. People can easily be unapologetic jerks.

Wraith: T5, 3+ Invuln, 3 wounds a pop, for 38 points.
Scarabs: T3, 6+ armour, 3 wounds a pop, for 13 points.

All calculations are going to be done AFTER hitting-they're both hit the same, so no need to calculate that in.

Lasguns
Wraiths: (1/3)*(1/3)=1/9, or 4.22 points per hit.
Scarabs: (1/2)*(5/6)=5/12, or 5.42 points per hit.

Boltguns
Wraiths: (1/3)*(1/3)=1/9, or 4.22 points per hit.
Scarabs: (2/3)*(5/6)=5/9, or 7.22 points per hit.

Pulse Weapons
Wraiths: (1/2)*(1/3)=1/6, or 6.33 points per hit.
Scarabs: (2/3)*(5/6)=5/9, or 7.22 points per hit.

Heavy Bolter
Wraiths: (1/2)*(1/3)=1/6, or 6.33 points per hit.
Scarabs: 2/3=2/3, or 8.67 points per hit.

Autocannon
Wraiths: (2/3)*(1/3)*2=4/9, or 16.89 points per hit (with potential overkill).
Scarabs: (5/6)*2=5/3, or 21/67 points per hit (with potential overkill).

Right, I'm gonna stop here. It looks like Wraiths are slightly more durable, point for point, against most things.

But, if we compare 6 Wraiths (228 points) to 18 Scarabs (234 points-a 3% difference, about) OFFENSIVELY...

Wraiths have 18 attacks, at S6 AP-1, hitting on 3s.
Scarabs have 72 attacks, at S3 AP0, hitting on 3s, wounding on 5s at the worst.

Hitting is the same, so I'm reducing it down to 12 hits (Wraiths) and 48 hits (Scarabs).

Against GEQs:
Wraiths: 12*(5/6)*(5/6)=8.33 wounds.
Scarabs: 48*(1/2)*(2/3)=16 wounds.

Against MEQs:
Wraiths: 12*(2/3)*(1/2)=4 wounds.
Scarabs: 48*(1/3)*(1/3)=5.33 wounds.

Against TEQs:
Wraiths: 12*(2/3)*(1/3)=2.67 wounds.
Scarabs: 48*(1/3)*(1/6)=2.67 wounds.

Against T5, 3+ models:
Wraiths: 12*(2/3)*(1/2)=4 wounds.
Scarabs: 48*(1/3)*(1/3)=5.33 wounds.

Against T6, 3+ models:
Wraiths: 12*(1/2)*(1/2)=3 wounds.
Scarabs: 48*(1/3)*(1/3)=5.33 wounds.

Against Rhinos (T7, 3+):
Wraiths: 12*(1/3)*(1/2)=2 wounds.
Scarabs: 48*(1/3)*(1/3)=5.33 wounds.

Against Knights (T8, 3+):
Wraiths: 12*(1/3)*(1/2)=2 wounds.
Scarabs: 48*(1/3)*(1/3)=5.33 wounds.

Against Land Raiders (T8, 2+):
Wraiths: 12*(1/3)*(1/3)=1.33 wounds.
Scarabs: 48*(1/3)*(1/6)=2.67 wounds.

So Scarabs are actually a LOT better offensively, against most everything. ESPECIALLY tough things.

 Odrankt wrote:
Hey all,

Thought I would update you in my tourny today.

Ended up winning 2 games by a land slide and losing a game by losing a 3vp objective marker. The list I brought is actually holding up pretty well.

1st game - Ad Mech/ Imperial G - 11-14 L

2nd game - Ultra M/ Custodes - 19 - 11 W

3rd game - Blood A angles - 21 -5 W

Going against the top contender tomorrow. He has 120 Fuqqing Rattlings... How dare fuq am I gonna gonna hold up against that?

Scarabs?

They can do a max of 240 wounds a turn, which is admittedly, a lot, but also has a chance so damn low my calculator just returns "Error".

Realistically, against Scarab swarms, they'll do 44.44 wounds, plus 13.33 mortal wounds, for about 58 wounds, or 19 dead Scarabs, or 247 points.

With a 10" move, you can quickly close the distance and murder their faces off.

Isn't MWBD +1 to hit, and Deathmarks do MW on 6+ to WOUND?

The math shows that, point for point, they've got better offense than Wraiths against most anything, ESPECIALLY high toughness models (even accounting for saves).

 Odrankt wrote:
Maths might show Scarabs are better then Wraiths "point of point" but we are playing a Dice game which means we're nearly always playing a different games due to dice rolls. I think it is better to have a unit for dedicated CC (Praetorians and Wraiths) and units that counter it or deny it (Scarabs) then to have a army made based maths alone. The Scarabs might be our best point for point units but that doesnt mean they are going to pro-form like he maths show. I rather list build on reliability then list build on what should preform better.

And that kinda confuses me-I'd rely on math to see which is more reliable, not gut feelings.

I'm not saying you're wrong (I lack ANY experience with 8th edition 'Crons, so obviously I'm speaking purely from theory) especially since it's so dinger-dang ANNOYING to get Scarabs, but I would think you'd want the cold, hard, objective reliability that comes from math, rather than anecdotal evidence.

Like I said, I don't have experience with 'Crons in 8th, so if the tournament winners and your experience tells you otherwise, then that's fine. I just find math is quite the useful tool.

Wraiths are slightly more durable, point for point.

Scarabs do more damage.

Yeah. Especially since things like Mortal Wounds, Scarabs are far, FAR more durable, by sheer virtue of being cheaper.

Except Wraiths are only SLIGHTLY more durable, pointswise, than Scarabs against most common weapons.

That makes sense.

Roll all relevant dice. Then, your opponent can spend a command point to reroll any one.

BillyN831 wrote:
I have two monoliths but are two legit?

From what I know, even ONE is gimping yourself a little bit.

Two would be disastrous. The more experienced Cron players can try to help make it work, though.

I don't think the Flayed One morale penalties stack with themselves.

It seems like a lot of eggs in one basket. How's your meta look like? Is it highly competitive, or more casual?

 skoffs wrote:
If possible, always try to keep one Tomb Blade in the unit out of line of sight to enemy shooters. Anything you can to ensure you have someone survive until your next turn so you have a chance to revive your extremely expensive bike guys.

Doesn't work. If you can see one guy, you can kill his whole squad.

But the transports are kinda overcosted...