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torblind wrote:
If I understood correctly, they get to shoot the nearest enemy with pistols even if they are in CC. The nearest enemy unit doesn't have to be the one they are in CC with

Except the enemy unit they're in close combat with will always be the nearest enemy unit.

 necr0n wrote:
What do we conclude about embarked HQs with auras? Can I put Orikan in a Ghost Ark (he wasn't going to be shooting anyway) and let everyone in 6" from my Ark benefit from his "Master Technomancer"? If so, I've found a great use for a single GA.

If not, damn GAs are really hard to field nowadays.

No, I'm sure the rules explicitly stated that models abord transports are off the field unless otherwise specified. So no shooting, and no buffs.
GA are now just repair boats. I wouldn't invest heavily in them. I said before that you should only have 1 per 2-4 units of warriors, and I stick with it. Whilst my initial reasoning was false (I thought the repair buff affected all warriors within range), the general point that its not cost effective to have multiple arks stands, as they are mediocre transports, they don't have amazing offensive potential, and they aren't that durable either. Their best role is really as a support unit, to be combined with the Crytek repair buff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

torblind wrote:
If I understood correctly, they get to shoot the nearest enemy with pistols even if they are in CC. The nearest enemy unit doesn't have to be the one they are in CC with

Except it has to be an enemy unit 1" away from the firing unit, which will usually be the ones they are locked in combat with, iirc.

Right now my competitive list is looking like this:

HQ

Nemesor Zahndrekh [180 pts]

Orikan The Diviner [143 pts]

TROOPS

Warriors x20 [240 pts]

Warriors x20 [240 pts]

Immortals x10 (Gauss Blasters) [170 pts]

FAST ATTACK

Tomb Blades x6 (Gauss Blasters, Nebuloscopes, Shieldvanes) [306 pts]

Canoptek Wraiths x5 [190 pts]

HEAVY SUPPORT

Heavy Destroyers x2 [150 pts]

Doomsday Ark [203 pts]

Triarch Stalker (Heat Ray) [171 pts]

TOTAL POINTS: 1993

Ideally we'd put the two units of Warriors and Immortals in front of Orikan and Zahndrekh to get buffed. Wraiths charge to take shots and hopefully take out front line. Tomb Blades for quick objective and strategic strikes. Doomsday Ark and Triarch Stalker in back for heavy support and anti-tank. Heavy Destroyers roaming edges and shooting Heavy Gauss Cannon at full 36" range.

Pistols are more like half a close combat attack as you still shoot them in the shooting phase on your own turn, while close combat attacks happen every fight phase, yours and your opponent's.

 Ghaz wrote:

torblind wrote:
If I understood correctly, they get to shoot the nearest enemy with pistols even if they are in CC. The nearest enemy unit doesn't have to be the one they are in CC with

Except the enemy unit they're in close combat with will always be the nearest enemy unit.

Remember, each model with a pistol shoots at its nearest enemy unit. Even after pile in this may not be the unit its unit is in CC with.

Furthermore, each model makes its pile in 3" towards its nearest enemy model. The furthest away model in a unit in CC may very well have to pile in towards another unit than the one its unit is in CC with, away from its onw units ongoing cc, which it may not be able to do and still stay in coherency, thus it will remain where it is, unable to pile in, but can still shoot at this other unit. It was un-situational enough to happen in the very first batrep at MWG from 8th edition.

The Melee Weapons list includes the 0 point options? For example, can my OL be equipped with Flayer Claws or anything like that for 0 points? The table I'm seeing that's named "Melee Weapons" includes all kinds of whacky choices, so I don't really know.

 necr0n wrote:
The Melee Weapons list includes the 0 point options? For example, can my OL be equipped with Flayer Claws or anything like that for 0 points? The table I'm seeing that's named "Melee Weapons" includes all kinds of whacky choices, so I don't really know.

No. See the page at the start of the Necron Army List for what items are available.

 necr0n wrote:
The Melee Weapons list includes the 0 point options? For example, can my OL be equipped with Flayer Claws or anything like that for 0 points? The table I'm seeing that's named "Melee Weapons" includes all kinds of whacky choices, so I don't really know.

No. There's a list of weapons the overlord can take on the first page, along with the necron army special rules.
Necron HQs can take three weapons - Warsyche, voidblade and hyperphase sword.

 necr0n wrote:
The Melee Weapons list includes the 0 point options? For example, can my OL be equipped with Flayer Claws or anything like that for 0 points? The table I'm seeing that's named "Melee Weapons" includes all kinds of whacky choices, so I don't really know.

To see what wargear an Overlord can take, you need to read what it says under the Overlord entry. Flayer claws most definitely won't be listed there

And why not? A Flayer lord would be cool as hell.

 JNAProductions wrote:
And why not? A Flayer lord would be cool as hell.

Yeah, it would be fun to have options like that.

 vipoid wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
And why not? A Flayer lord would be cool as hell.

Yeah, it would be fun to have options like that.

That's an issue with Necrons. They're as old or older than the Eldar, as advanced, and yet have MAYBE three options per unit. Usually less.

 JNAProductions wrote:
And why not? A Flayer lord would be cool as hell.

Because GW said so.
To be serious, that would be a nice option. Necrons actually lost a lot of options in the index; you can't give crypteks gear anymore, and only destroyer lords can have phylacteries, and there's no veil of darkness or nightmare shrouds, which have been around since 3rd ed . At least all of our HQs get a phase shifter for free.

 JNAProductions wrote:
And why not? A Flayer lord would be cool as hell.

Can't argue with that

 JNAProductions wrote:
That's an issue with Necrons. They're as old or older than the Eldar, as advanced, and yet have MAYBE three options per unit. Usually less.

To be fair, that was because most of them were meant to be little more than automatons - they didn't have the minds for customisation.

The real issue is that the main area of customisation in our army is supposed to be the HQ section, yet that has been stripped away also, leaving us with basically nothing.

So after a lot of searching, doodling, drafting lists and searching combos and following the Tactics Thread closely as there were a lot of good ideas I've come up with the following idea. Turn 1-2 combos like Deciever/Monolith/Lychguard etc are not worth it, because they are not 100% reliable, you might not have a good target to charge and bad dice might leave you stranded in the middle of the opponent army with no damage done. Generally, it's just too many things that can go wrong. Other combos that people mentioned included far too many points spent in support units and HQ/auras. For this list, even though I've used support characters and auras myself, I focused more on raw numbers and dakka. My list is a combination of 3 parts:

The Destroyer Cult: (Orikan, Destroyer Lord and the 2 Destroyer units)

The reason I chose to go with 5man Destroyer units, is so that I can benefit from RP as much as possible and make it hard for anyone to wipe any of those squads completely. For that, I also rely on Orikan's Invu saves and improved RP+ Res Orb. I don't believe there's absolutely any point of going 2-3 destroyer man squads as they will be wiped to any decent enemy and not allow for RP. Especially mixing 1 or 2 HDs in Destroyer squads now is perfect, because you can allocate wounds on normal D's and never have your Heavy in danger. All this works so much better compared to last edition because of being able to shoot anywhere with any model and not forcing all 5 to shoot the same target. There's no real drawback to stacking your destroyers together this edition.

So I've got 8 Gauss cannons and 2 H.Gauss cannons + their rerolls and the D.lord buff rerolls as "Heavy shooting" and rely on their toughness + orikan buffs to help them survive (+ good movement). Plus, Orikan and D.Lord are kinda scary in CC, so they're not entirely doomed if things get physical.

The Silver Tide: (3 blobs of warriors, Szeras and Immortals squad)

A lot of people are going to question why I chose to leave my silver tide without a cryptek with an Invulnerable save. Well, the answer is I don't want to invest in 2 HQ's, as I really want to go for high numbers. For that big numbers, I feel Szeras' buffs + RP benefit is too good to not take and I can't see anything else being more beneficial. I don't think the Invulnerable save will be of much use anyway as it only matters when people shoot warriors with anything better than AP -1, which honestly, probably won't be the case too often and Immortals with AP -2. At first, I really liked the invulnerable on troops, but at second thought, it's not necesairy. The only thing I kinda miss from this is MWBD for the Tesla Immortals, but I'd have to include Anrakyr as a support to the tide and I think Szeras fills that role better overall.

The cheese protection: (3x3 of scarabs)

Scarabs are there to help me bump assault units or stop Turn 1 charges/deepstrikes. My list, being so warrior heavy, is really vulnerable to getting assaulted so I feel this extra protection is really needed. In games where such protection is not needed, they can distract/assault random staff like (hopefully) big vehicles. Honestly, for 117 points total and an extra CP it looks legit.

The list:

 vipoid wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
That's an issue with Necrons. They're as old or older than the Eldar, as advanced, and yet have MAYBE three options per unit. Usually less.

To be fair, that was because most of them were meant to be little more than automatons - they didn't have the minds for customisation.

The real issue is that the main area of customisation in our army is supposed to be the HQ section, yet that has been stripped away also, leaving us with basically nothing.

Warriors, sure.

Immortals... I guess.

But Praetorians? Lychguard? Stalkers? Why can't I customize them with more than two choices? (Okay, Stalker does have, what? 3 guns?)

We are in a pretty rough spot right now guys.

I like Heavy Destroyers a lot, they seem to be the way to put out some serious damage,

Gauss is decent, but most of our vehicles are very mediocre for the points. Not having Quantum Shielding on most vehicles is sad.

Something that really hurt was mortal wounds, not having ways to really shrug them off. QS is pretty random in itself.

I have a question, which I assume the answer is no at the moment.

Do our CCB's get our Overlords 4++ Phase Shifter?

Because without it, they pretty much suck really bad. 3 attacks, hitting on 2s wounding most things on 3s, they might kill 3 models a turn if we're lucky but they just eat it to anything with more damage output and a slight rend.

No, CCBs don't get the phase shifter.

Eyjio wrote:
No, CCBs don't get the phase shifter.

Yeah, which makes sense, but is extremely unfortunte.

Eyjio wrote:
No, CCBs don't get the phase shifter.

Ah that's right, they don't.
Yeah, the CCB is kind of mediocre. No idea why it doesn't have a shifter either. What, did the overlord riding it left it at home?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 vipoid wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
That's an issue with Necrons. They're as old or older than the Eldar, as advanced, and yet have MAYBE three options per unit. Usually less.

To be fair, that was because most of them were meant to be little more than automatons - they didn't have the minds for customisation.

The real issue is that the main area of customisation in our army is supposed to be the HQ section, yet that has been stripped away also, leaving us with basically nothing.

Indeed. Historically, necrons have always been lacking of options in terms of their rank and file compared to most factions, but even in 3rd ed you can kit out your lord however you liked. That was the armies flavor / quirk
8th ed changes that, in that even the HQ choices are sorely lacking in options, even less than in 3rd ed, which permitted the lord (overlords did not exist in 3rd, just lords and destroyer lords) to take a better weapon and have a choice of something like 7 wargear.
In eighth you have 3 weapon options, two of which are the same, and 1 piece of wargear. 2 if it's a destroyer lord.

 necr0n wrote:


The list:

Spoiler:

BATTALION - 1739

Orikan - 143
Destroyer Lord (SoL, R.Orb) - (124+18+35) - 177


9 Immortals (Tesla) - 153
17 Warriors - 204
17 Warriors - 204
17 Warriors - 204

4 Destroyers + 1 HD - (5*43 + 4*20 + 32) - 327
4 Destroyers + 1 HD - (5*43 + 4*20 + 32) - 327


OUTRIDER - 260

Szeras - 143

3 Scarabs - 39
3 Scarabs - 39
3 Scarabs - 39

Total - 1999pts

I like your list for the most part... but I'm not really feeling Orikan traveling around with the Destroyers. He's going to slow them down. I'd just keep the Destroyer Lord with the Destroyers, put Orikan with your Infantry, and then possibly drop Szeras for an Overlord so you can cast MWBD on whatever unit you need. I find Szeras' ability to be too sporadic and I"m not fond of it. Plus after turn 3 it's useless.

 SHADOWSTRIKE1 wrote:

 necr0n wrote:


The list:

Spoiler:

BATTALION - 1739

Orikan - 143
Destroyer Lord (SoL, R.Orb) - (124+18+35) - 177


9 Immortals (Tesla) - 153
17 Warriors - 204
17 Warriors - 204
17 Warriors - 204

4 Destroyers + 1 HD - (5*43 + 4*20 + 32) - 327
4 Destroyers + 1 HD - (5*43 + 4*20 + 32) - 327


OUTRIDER - 260

Szeras - 143

3 Scarabs - 39
3 Scarabs - 39
3 Scarabs - 39

Total - 1999pts

I like your list for the most part... but I'm not really feeling Orikan traveling around with the Destroyers. He's going to slow them down. I'd just keep the Destroyer Lord with the Destroyers, put Orikan with your Infantry, and then possibly drop Szeras for an Overlord so you can cast MWBD on whatever unit you need. I find Szeras' ability to be too sporadic and I"m not fond of it. Plus after turn 3 it's useless.

One thing to consider he's a weaker lascannon shot, but still a shot.

I played a game with the demo against nids, it took 12 wounds of swarmlord over two turns (I killed his tyrant guard with a huge amount of telsa) and his venomthropes pretty much couldnt keep up with him even with swarmlords advance.

I agree, his table is too sporadic but it is definitely better now than before. Also believe it affects immortals which is sweet.

 SHADOWSTRIKE1 wrote:

 necr0n wrote:


The list:

Spoiler:

BATTALION - 1739

Orikan - 143
Destroyer Lord (SoL, R.Orb) - (124+18+35) - 177


9 Immortals (Tesla) - 153
17 Warriors - 204
17 Warriors - 204
17 Warriors - 204

4 Destroyers + 1 HD - (5*43 + 4*20 + 32) - 327
4 Destroyers + 1 HD - (5*43 + 4*20 + 32) - 327


OUTRIDER - 260

Szeras - 143

3 Scarabs - 39
3 Scarabs - 39
3 Scarabs - 39

Total - 1999pts

I like your list for the most part... but I'm not really feeling Orikan traveling around with the Destroyers. He's going to slow them down. I'd just keep the Destroyer Lord with the Destroyers, put Orikan with your Infantry, and then possibly drop Szeras for an Overlord so you can cast MWBD on whatever unit you need. I find Szeras' ability to be too sporadic and I"m not fond of it. Plus after turn 3 it's useless.

Orikan does not have a shooting weapon. Therefore, I should have no problem "Advancing" him each turn to keep up with the Destroyers. ( It's really flexible/easy to just have 1 model within the aura and conga the rest if I really wanna move)

The problem with leaving Orikan away from Destroyers is they are left without an Invulnerable save (and I'm 90% sure any low AP weapons will be targetted on my destroyers) as well as the RP buff. Destroyers are very, very vulnerable and I think the Invu+RP buff are a must (that's why I also went for the orb). They're the biggest threat in my list and I expect they will also be the biggest target.

As for Szeras' abilities, I have 4 units. So 4 turns. But, honestly, if he buffs even three 17man warrior squads and gives out the RP buff and also shoots the weapon, he's really made his points back. I mean compare him to what a cryptek would do in 3 turns. He's going to be buffing 60 models with extra permanent stats like +1 BS or +1 T.

I'll just run with:

The screens:
4x Canoptek Scarabs
3x Canoptek Scarabs

The Silver buffers:
Necron Lord - Warscythe
Cryptek - Staff of Light
11x Necron Warrior
5x Necron Immortal - Tesla Carbine
5x Necron Immortal - Tesla Carbine

The C'tan:
C'tan shard of the Deceiver
C'tan shard of the Nightbringer
Transcendant C'tan
Transcendant C'tan

Plan is simple: Bubble Wrap C'tan, slowly march towards enemy dishing out meteor strikes after meteor strikes. Gaze of Death too. Maybe have one C'tan with Time's arrow to try and snipe enemy characters. When close enough. Charge in with the C'tan, let them blow up.

You'll lose, but at least you'll die laughing as you kill their heroes and safetly reanimate in your nearest Tombworld.

Dang, I was kind of messing around with this but I think it might be kinda fun?

Vanguard Detachment

DLord SoL

Deceiver
Nightbringer

Wraiths x5
Wraiths x5
Wraiths x5
Destroyer x2, Heavy
Destroyer x2, Heavy
Destroyer x2, Heavy

Heavy Destroyer x3

1995/2000

Have to kill 15 Wraiths before you can target the C'tan, and meanwhile the Destroyers will be doing damage in the background. 6 Heavies might be overkill, could trade 3 of them out for Warriors.

Requizen wrote:
Dang, I was kind of messing around with this but I think it might be kinda fun?

Vanguard Detachment

DLord SoL

Deceiver
Nightbringer

Wraiths x5
Wraiths x5
Wraiths x5
Destroyer x2, Heavy
Destroyer x2, Heavy
Destroyer x2, Heavy

Heavy Destroyer x3

1995/2000

Have to kill 15 Wraiths before you can target the C'tan, and meanwhile the Destroyers will be doing damage in the background. 6 Heavies might be overkill, could trade 3 of them out for Warriors.

If you're going for fun list. Sure. But, otherwise, noone would shoot neither your Wraiths or the ctan. You have 4 very vulnerable 3man Destroyer units. Alpha-strike, turn 1-2 they'll be gone for sure. The problem is you have no support for them and nothing else that requires shooting. Also, after they're dead, you're left with 2 Ctan and 15 wraiths and they're not exactly the epitome of deadliness.

I'm having trouble working out how to determine the damage inflicted by destroyers. Do I roll the damage D3 for every unsaved wound? Or do I just roll one die and thats the damage for all of the wounds?
In the rule book it said the damage the weapon inflicts, so I'm assuming that's the latter, but that does seem pretty powerful.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I'm having trouble working out how to determine the damage inflicted by destroyers. Do I roll the damage D3 for every unsaved wound? Or do I just roll one die and thats the damage for all of the wounds?
In the rule book it said the damage the weapon inflicts, so I'm assuming that's the latter, but that does seem pretty powerful.

I've understood it to mean that you roll one damage die, and each wound causes that same damage. Perhaps someone else can chime in though.

 SHADOWSTRIKE1 wrote:
Right now my competitive list is looking like this:

HQ

Nemesor Zahndrekh [180 pts]

Orikan The Diviner [143 pts]

TROOPS

Warriors x20 [240 pts]

Warriors x20 [240 pts]

Immortals x10 (Gauss) [170 pts]

FAST ATTACK

Tomb Blades x6 (Gauss Blasters, Nebuloscopes, Shieldvanes) [306 pts]

Canoptek Wraiths x5 [190 pts]

HEAVY SUPPORT

Heavy Destroyers] [150 pts]

Doomsday Ark [203 pts]

Triarch Stalker (Heat Ray) [171 pts]

TOTAL POINTS: 1993

Ideally we'd put the two units of Warriors and Immortals in front of Orikan and Zahndrekh to get buffed. Wraiths charge to take shots and hopefully take out front line. Tomb Blades for quick objective and strategic strikes. Doomsday Ark and Triarch Stalker in back for heavy support and anti-tank. Heavy Destroyers roaming edges and shooting Heavy Gauss Cannon at full 36" range.

HQ

Nemesor Zahndrekh [180 pts]

Orikan The Diviner [143 pts]

Vargard Obyron [151 pts]

TROOPS

Warriors x20 [240 pts]

Warriors x20 [240 pts]

Immortals x10 (Tesla) [170 pts]

ELITES

Deathmarks x5 [100 pts]

Triarch Stalker (Twin Heavy Gauss Cannon) [181 pts]

TRANSPORT

Ghost Ark [170 pts]

HEAVY SUPPORT

Doomsday Ark [203 pts]

Doomsday Ark [203 pts]

TOTAL POINTS: 1981

Is my preferred spin on a Zandrekh army. I think not taking Vargard Obyron with him is a waste, Ghostwalk Mantle is too good. Not really a fan of splitting Heavy D and Doomsday either, either two Doomsday and Stalker or no QS vehicles at all for me, like this:


HQ

Nemesor Zahndrekh [180 pts]

Orikan The Diviner [143 pts]

Vargard Obyron [151 pts]

Destroyer Lord (Warscythe, Res Orb) [170 pts]

TROOPS

Warriors x20 [240 pts]

Warriors x20 [240 pts]

Immortals x10 (Tesla) [170 pts]

ELITES

Deathmarks x5 [100 pts]

HEAVY SUPPORT

Heavy Destroyers x3 [225 pts]

Heavy Destroyers x3 [225 pts]

Heavy Destroyers x3 [225 pts]

TOTAL POINTS: 1994