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I've noticed a new movement that has picked up over the past couple of years (mainly dealing with games workshop games) where homemade terrain is called "illegal" and that a lot of people are refusing to play against homemade terrain because its not legal to use in games.

Creating homemade terrain has been a staple of wargaming since the 70s. Games Workshop itself sold a book on How To Make Wargaming Terrain (which has two printings, one with a red border and one with no border that is blue). Making terrain used to be as much a part of the hobby as playing the game itself.

Is this something that is becoming more common do you find or is this just a phenomenon that I myself am only starting to see and its not really reflective of the community as a whole?

Ive literally never encountered this concept, ever. Youre more likely to run in to home made terrain at a FLGS than anything else.

Not reflective of the community.
and its been a part of wargamming since 4000 BCE
sounds like brainwashing to me since even 7th ed BRB tells sizes of buildings and hills for small medium and large..and how to represent various bits o terrain.

Yep. News to me.

Provided it's battlefield scraps, and not say, a Bunker you've purchased as a fortification, I think people need to belt up.

Aegis etc - well, perhaps tone it down in club play - but I can understand more organised affairs insisting on approved and not hand made stuff, because specific dimensions etc.

 auticus wrote:
I've noticed a new movement that has picked up over the past couple of years (mainly dealing with games workshop games) where homemade terrain is called "illegal" and that a lot of people are refusing to play against homemade terrain because its not legal to use in games.

Where? What stores? What gaming groups? Where specifically is this happening?

The only issue I could see would be accusations of MFA with terrain you pay points for (like VSGs or landing pads).

Or GW’s shift for pre-packaged stuff you buy from them, which they push a lot harder then they used to. So in a GW official store, or one filled with true believers, I could see an issue.

But those are corner cases. I think the vast majority of the community is on board with scratch built terrain.

Yeah, I have heard of this but never seen anyone choose not to play due to the terrain. Just a rumor. Sometime soon someone will be claiming you can only use GW approved dice.

Yeah, I've never heard this before; I actually have the blue version of the book you speak of, and it's fantastic. While GW doesn't do much along the lines of that stuff anymore to promote their own plastic terrain instead, I don't think they'd ever encourage people to rule out homemade pieces, especially when a lot of the stuff they use in WD Battle Reports is made from scratch.

If the piece has a ruleset to go with it, such as a special building, and you're playing in a tournament, then perhaps it is unlikely that such a piece is allowed into the game. In any other circumstance, I would say that it's bad sportsmanship to not allow a homemade piece to be fielded, at least when it's not in the deliberate advantage of your opponent (i.e. it's in their deployment zone)

 General Annoyance wrote:
Yeah, I've never heard this before; I actually have the blue version of the book you speak of, and it's fantastic. While GW doesn't do much along the lines of that stuff anymore to promote their own plastic terrain instead, I don't think they'd ever encourage people to rule out homemade pieces, especially when a lot of the stuff they use in WD Battle Reports is made from scratch.

Pretty much this.

Though I am promised (via letter published in WD no less!) that WD will be including Terrain Making articles in the near future.

Third party or scratchbuilt terrain, unless it represents something that GW doesn't have a model for (like a bridge, or giant crystals) is banned in my local GW store, unless it is at least 75% GW components. Yes, card terrain made out of GW boxes is also banned. I tried this.
Other than that, never heard of this.

Its a thing I've noted on various facebook groups over the past few months (particularly when sylvaneth came out). There was a big stink on a fb group yesterday that had like 200 responses.

My local community has also had some people complain about custom terrain, saying its somehow illegal or not fair.

All the Games Workshop stores I've been to don't allow it, for the same reason they don't allow 3rd party models.

I've never seen it in a local store, but the only reason I could fathom to justify it would be someone trying to bring in terrain modeled to give them an advantage.

More recently I've seen people arguing that their preference on terrain is the "right" way to play 40k and any others are wrong. If someone like that owned the store, I could see an outcome like this being possible.

Is this terrain like an AoS equivalent of home made bastions or Aegis Defense Lines that you paid points for but is larger than the GW version, or has some other Modeling For Advantage?

I have only seen this mentality in a GW store itself (which, while unfortunate, makes sense). I have seen this concept crop up on the AoS Facebook group (I assume this is what you were referring to, Auticus) and cannot understand it at all. It sounds like GW fanboyism, although I would not doubt GW to try and make this the default mindset, that you must be using GW terrain and GW boards to play GW games. I could see having homebrew rules for terrain get some flak depending on the game and players, but not actual pieces of terrain, doubly so since GW makes woefully few terrain pieces for AOS for instance.

The wood elves can create their own woods as I recall and the rules probably stipulate that you must have the models to represent them to use. Much like summoned Daemons.

I'd say that's what the OP is on about, just in a very confusing manner.

My old GW had a hardcore employee (read "Idiotic fanatic") who used to tell customers their models had to be painted with GW paints to play in-store. God he was a pain in the ass.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 General Annoyance wrote:
Yeah, I've never heard this before; I actually have the blue version of the book you speak of, and it's fantastic. While GW doesn't do much along the lines of that stuff anymore to promote their own plastic terrain instead, I don't think they'd ever encourage people to rule out homemade pieces, especially when a lot of the stuff they use in WD Battle Reports is made from scratch.

Pretty much this.

Though I am promised (via letter published in WD no less!) that WD will be including Terrain Making articles in the near future.

So YOU sent that. It pretty much summed up everything I was going to ask them. So I didn't send a letter.

 kronk wrote:
Is this terrain like an AoS equivalent of home made bastions or Aegis Defense Lines that you paid points for but is larger than the GW version, or has some other Modeling For Advantage?

Its typically anything not a gw kit. Home made forests (there are too many trees in there and now they block line of sight and thats not fair), home made buildings (the windows are boarded up so the building blocks line of sight so thats not fair), home made lakes or swamps (there are no rules for those, and trying to use those as difficult terrain is not fair), home made hills (those block line of sight and are not fair). Pretty much anything like that I have seen a lot of.

The home made forests are the ones that I hear the most about when I read online or at the store.

Never seen or heard of this. I guess it makes sense (somewhat) in GW stores since the managers have an obligation of sorts to sell their kits, though local-ish GW stores to me still have kitbashed terrain (using their kits, generally).

Never heard of this and not surprised it's happening due to the increasing amount of complaining some people have to do each day for some reason.

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
The wood elves can create their own woods as I recall and the rules probably stipulate that you must have the models to represent them to use. Much like summoned Daemons.

I'd say that's what the OP is on about, just in a very confusing manner.

My old GW had a hardcore employee (read "Idiotic fanatic") who used to tell customers their models had to be painted with GW paints to play in-store. God he was a pain in the ass.

How would he even enforce that rule? Couldn't you just say it was blended paint? What's next, needing to bring in a reciept with your models to prove that that they were purchased in that store?

 auticus wrote:

 kronk wrote:
Is this terrain like an AoS equivalent of home made bastions or Aegis Defense Lines that you paid points for but is larger than the GW version, or has some other Modeling For Advantage?

Its typically anything not a gw kit. Home made forests (there are too many trees in there and now they block line of sight and thats not fair), home made buildings (the windows are boarded up so the building blocks line of sight so thats not fair), home made lakes or swamps (there are no rules for those, and trying to use those as difficult terrain is not fair), home made hills (those block line of sight and are not fair). Pretty much anything like that I have seen a lot of.

The home made forests are the ones that I hear the most about when I read online or at the store.

Wow. Where are they running into these "unfair kits"? When they play at other people's homes? When they play at non-GW stores?

Seems silly to me. Rates about a 0.4 on my Give-A-gak meter. Complaining about it rates a 8.4, which puts you in the "Wouldn't even bother getting my minis out to play you" range.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Verviedi wrote:

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
The wood elves can create their own woods as I recall and the rules probably stipulate that you must have the models to represent them to use. Much like summoned Daemons.

I'd say that's what the OP is on about, just in a very confusing manner.

My old GW had a hardcore employee (read "Idiotic fanatic") who used to tell customers their models had to be painted with GW paints to play in-store. God he was a pain in the ass.

How would he even enforce that rule? Couldn't you just say it was blended paint? What's next, needing to bring in a reciept with your models to prove that that they were purchased in that store?

Yeah. Not a store I would frequent. Bleh...

As someone who has made 10~ tables... and has spent nearly $800 on terrain in the past year

This is new news to me. Where are you hearing this from?

Could it be the quality of the work on the homemade terrain?? If it looks like two beer cans glued to a cardboard sheet but counts as a oil refinery..
There lies the problem and I might see the issue they are having... Also as mentioned before, Games Workshop store usually don't allow any
non GW stuff in their stores, no matter how cool it looks.
The other thing that might be the case is when I would run demo tables or games at conventions, My group wanted the best presentation possible
of the game to attract new players.. So you might get a picture of the terrain in question to see what the forum has to say.. but you will always
encounter in you life elite gamers that you will never please them.. because of terrain.. how your army is painted.. even how you built your army list..
they will find a reason to complain.

News to me. Generally the host provides the terrain in my group, or we use the store's. The whole idea of buying terrain with points and bringing it with you still feels alien to me.

(And for the rare times I play at a GW store I just use their terrain - playing on a different table with different terrain is sort of the point.)

 auticus wrote:

 kronk wrote:
Is this terrain like an AoS equivalent of home made bastions or Aegis Defense Lines that you paid points for but is larger than the GW version, or has some other Modeling For Advantage?

Its typically anything not a gw kit. Home made forests (there are too many trees in there and now they block line of sight and thats not fair), home made buildings (the windows are boarded up so the building blocks line of sight so thats not fair), home made lakes or swamps (there are no rules for those, and trying to use those as difficult terrain is not fair), home made hills (those block line of sight and are not fair). Pretty much anything like that I have seen a lot of.

The home made forests are the ones that I hear the most about when I read online or at the store.

I just play that a unit in a forest gets a 5+ and not worry about the individual trees. I think there's some saying about that.

 auticus wrote:

 kronk wrote:
Is this terrain like an AoS equivalent of home made bastions or Aegis Defense Lines that you paid points for but is larger than the GW version, or has some other Modeling For Advantage?

Its typically anything not a gw kit. Home made forests (there are too many trees in there and now they block line of sight and thats not fair), home made buildings (the windows are boarded up so the building blocks line of sight so thats not fair), home made lakes or swamps (there are no rules for those, and trying to use those as difficult terrain is not fair), home made hills (those block line of sight and are not fair). Pretty much anything like that I have seen a lot of.

The home made forests are the ones that I hear the most about when I read online or at the store.

Man what is with the people you play with? They hate anything casual and narrative, had fan-stuff (like your Azyr comp) because it's not official, whine "it's not fair" for everything that isn't GW made stuff. Also who would try to claim you can shoot through a window in a building?

You need some new gaming people, man. You obviously play with man-children.

I think some people are forgetting the point of toy soldiers in order to cause some stir on the internet. If someone said this to me I would first laugh, then when I realized they were serious I would probably find some excuse to stop playing them. That is not the type of person I want to play with.

I believe they have forgotten the Most Important Rule. It has been a long time since I bought a GW rulebook. I assume the Most Important Rule is still in them. Is it?

 Easy E wrote:

I believe they have forgotten the Most Important Rule. It has been a long time since I bought a GW rulebook. I assume the Most Important Rule is still in them. Is it?

To crush your enemies, laugh at their tears, and mock their short comings?

Yes! Page 2!

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Though I am promised (via letter published in WD no less!) that WD will be including Terrain Making articles in the near future.

Kitbashed from existing GW kits no doubt.

Can't wait to hear stories about being refused table space because someone didn't use GW glue or GW clippers.

I think this is one of those rare cases that no one has ever had to deal with except for maybe a small handful of people. Besides, LOS blocking terrain is the best terrain IMO.