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Hi there ! First of all I hope I posted in the right section, and second I'm not trying to start a raging fire of debates, so excuse me if that happens

Here's my short story, long time ago I started playing WFB but as I was really young and always changed my mind I never went really far with my High Elves and Vampire Counts. Now, a short time before AoS launched (or before it was announced I think) I went back in the hobby and picked the Isle of Blood for the High Elves, and later I started my Vampires again too. My wife went for Daemons of Khorne (yeah, women are delicate creatures I know ) and we started the hobby together. Then AoS launched and so I learned that the epic setting of WFB with all its richness was gone for some weird galactic wars involving medieval Space Marines. I was of course disappointed and felt kind of backstabbed by GW for this move, I felt like the few models we bought and painted with love would just be useless. I really love the tactical aspect of 8th Ed. with the rank and file battles, I realise 8th Ed. may not have been the best edition rulewise but I never played a lot anyway, never could notice it really.

And so I saw how AoS played, with its skirmish style games, with models going 40k style everywhere on the board, breaking all the logic and the idea behind a thing as simple as a spearmen formation, where you're supposed to count on your comrades to protect you. It feels anarchic. And then the oversimplification seemed to break the immersion even more, with almost everything having the same fighting capabilities. It feels like there's a huge imbalance, especially at first when there wasn't any point values.

However with time it looks like it has improved. The day where I tried a small game of AoS and found it rather strange have passed and I'm starting to think about giving it another chance. There's several reasons for this. I went back to 40k and I'm having way more fun, as I found an army I really love and the community is really active in my region regarding this. My wife started 40k as well with Necrons. So now we have about 5 armies that need love, and my first love currently is on my Mechanicus. So when I think about the fact that I still need to buy several boxes for each army just to make a legal 8th Ed. list (list that may get stomped really bad) it makes me go depressed. I'd like to be able to play with the few models I have, and not feel like I bought them for nothing. Another reason is that I'd like to participate more in my LGS activities, there's still a lot of 8th Ed. players but by the time I'll have a decent army I'll just see that they'll stomp me because of their experience and more wide choice of lists. It would motivate me if I felt I was painting all these little dudes for a reason. Last reason is the dreadful feeling that, clinging to past rules, the models I like and plan on buying will just be updated to AoS or just plain forgotten. Luckily for me I wasn't a Bretonnian player but still, I don't see any updates on High Elves as of now.

So, you guys have most likely played it for a long time now, what are your stances on this ? Are the rules and balancing any better now ? Will I find it fun ? Should I stick to the past ? Please, help me, convince me AoS is not that terrifying. I hope I didn't sound too desperate but I'm listening to sad piano music at the same time so I might have gotten emotional

Speaking as a fellow 8th edder, it's not even close. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but if you want to enjoy AoS I've had to create a mental barrier between the two games. WHFB ingrained in me that shooting in combat is stupid and immersion breaking, but it's a staple in all shooting based AoS lists and according to the community here it isn't even over powered. Just a little...odd to me.

The balancing is in a similar place to 40K was a few months ago. Battle Tomes can have very fair and fun games against other armies that have battle tomes (Sylvaneth vs Iron Jaws for example) but when playing against legacy lists or unupdated stuff (like High Elves) you'll need to put in more effort than just having similar points to your opponent to enjoy the game. You have to talk about what your bringing, what they're bringing, if you can do a special mission.

Are the rules balanced? Other people say so, but there is a huge discrepancy between my Sylvaneth and my Wood Elves. Are they better? Better than when they came out definately, but there are still some things I disagree with. Will you find it fun? Eeeehhhh, depends on how much effort you want to put in to have fun. AoS pick up games tend to be a little toxic in my experience. Stick to the past? Nah, if you liked 8th you'll probably like Ninth Age, the spiritual successor to 8th, it's better balanced than 8th was while maintaining it's over-complicated charm.

I wasn't a fan of 8th myself. I think part of that was how infrequently any one I knew was playing. So the times I did play I had a lot of trouble keeping up with what was happening. And Orc's never felt like they played right to me.
With AoS I'm finding a few interesting things that I really like.
It's been fairly easy to play. While I compare Orc's, Orks and Ourrks I don't compare WHFB to AoS.
I think you should give it ago, you already have models and the rules are free. So no loss there if you don't like it.

Based on what you said in your post, you may actually want to stay away from AoS. There are too many games out there to 'eat your broccoli' because it's good for you.

If you think the game is anarchic and are looking for block formation there are lots of options including just playing the last edition. As long as you and your opponents agree on a system, there's no need to shoehorn yourself into a system that you have to be 'convinced' to play.

It's a very different game from WHFB of old. Whether you'll like it or not really depends on the type of game you want.

It's a smaller scale, skirmish style game compared to the massive ranked infantry battles of WHFB. While there are no formal formations, how you arrange your models in AoS is still incredibly important for how you space your encounters (there's a lot you can do with weapon ranges, pile in ranges, and unit coherency for combats that makes for a lot to consider in spite of the simplified ruleset. Which is good, because that means tactical depth without bloat), and provides a much more tactically engaging experience than something like 40k, which is mostly just smash your armies together and see who has the most special rules.

While there is some mild homogeniety between forces, it helps to set a good baseline for armies where nothing is completely unusable, and everything is killable. Moreover, it's not nearly as bad as you might think at first glance, with the one or two defining abilities of each unit synergizing very differently with their respective factions, creating a sum of factional identity greater than the individual parts.

As for whether you'll like it... I dunno, you have the models already, might as well play a couple games and see if it jumps out at you.

Indeed, the rules are free and you can use a free online scrollbuilder for a couple of matched games (or use narrative and open play if you're feeling creative) to see how you feel about it.

If it's not for you and you want 8th with AoS models then give the EEFL forum a look as that's what they do besides other great Warhammer stuff.

Good luck finding your game.

I wouldnt bother converting.

Instead keep your 8th edition armies and either use them for WHFB or 9th Age.
If you want to start AoS start with a new faction and round base them etc.
the advantage of doing this is because you only need a handful of models that would previously be core or special and a number of signature models. Find something you wanted but never got around to building an army for and build a small AoS force around that.

This is the only real advantage of AoS, if you really like say the doomwheel, buy one and a handful of assorted skaven and field them as your Horned Rat army. its just an excuse to collect a doomwheel and a lightning cannon and a screaming bell etc without having to buy and model and paint a zillion rats to go with it.

What is there to convince you? You have the minis. The rules are free. You have your wife to play with. So what is stopping you from trying it out?

You already say 40K is better. I find 40K so much worse than Age of Sigmar. So if 40K is better, AoS might not be for you. But then again, free rules, already own minis, it be stupid not to try it out for your self since you don't have to put a penny down to play. No convincing needed. Just try it and see for yourself. After playing then if you see things wrong then ask to see if you can get a differing opinion.

Aos is a VERY different game to the old warhammer and this difference has put a lot of people off. There have been many complaints about the over simplification of the rules. The reality is that there are just different things that are important. The core of AOS is synergies. A lot of units that are weak individually become much better when used in conjunction with a particular hero. Movement is extremely important to maximise the benefit of your buffs while minimising those of your opponents.

Balance is not perfect but it is already better than 40k and the upcoming handbook will improve balance considerably. With hundreds of units that behave differently depending which other units they are comboed with it will never be perfect but that will only become an issue if you decide to start playing competitively.

If I was you I would watch a couple of games on the Internet, especially tournament games and read a couple of the tactics articles on the warhammer community site or the tga forums, then use your existing minis to play a few games. If you decide you don't like it at this point then you really haven't lost much.

Assuming you still have the island of blood minis your financial investment will be zero. You can find all the points for free on the scroll builder website and the warscrolls are on the app or can be downloaded from the GW website.

The biggest impediment for former players is the temptation to compare it to the old game. It is better to approach it as something completely new that just happens to use many of the same minis.

The other positive aspect about AOS is that the game is growing. It is fun to be a part of something that is changing and improving over time.

From what you are telling, I can recommend you to try The Ninth Age. It is a rank and file instead of a skirmish game, which will make it more similar to WHF. The system also has enough similarities that you will pick it up pretty fast as an old WFB player.
It has equivalent armies for all the WHF armies (even chaos dwarves), the balance is pretty good (so no fear of making garbage lists like it so easily happens with GW unbalanced games) and the best part for a new players is that all the material is completely free. There is even a map with players around the world if you are interested in a game.

http://www.the-ninth-age.com/index.php?simple-page/

AoS plays a lot like 40k should, but in a different setting. If you like 40k give it a go.
The view I stand by is that both warhammers are about awesome models and epic battles starring your models.

If you like the rank and flank and tactics of WFB then try Kings of War (especially if you would like simpler rules).
You can find the free basic rules here. As long as the unit footprints are right you can use whatever models you think appropriate, including your High Elves.

If you like some WFB style convolution I hear 9th Age has that, it's not to my taste though.

Thanks for all your answers guys ! Okay, maybe "convince" was too strong of a word I really only wanted your opinions as players. I'll go at the store with my wife tomorrow, we'll ask the manager to tell us more about it, maybe plan a little game someday with what we have of models. It won't hurt.

The hardest part is fighting myself who almost spat on AoS for its new shiny setting and the destruction of the Old World, but I have to be reasonable someday

I'll take a look at 9th Age, but I told you, one of my concerns was to have to build an army with its restrictions etc. With AoS I'll be able to have a game with my IoB elves and my 8 Silverhelms I feel. At least just to try. As long as there's a little thinking involved I think I'll like it, I'll just ignore the setting.

I certainly understand the aversion to AoS's shinier parts of it's setting and artwork but have you seen the Shadows over Hammerhal book artwork and story leaks?

It's very reminiscent of the old setting's aesthetic like Mordheim and feels like a nice blend of the new and old stuff.

Just food for thought.

You can just download the 4 page of rules for free. You already have the minis so you can try them at home. You go to a GW store they might try selling you something that you might not even want.

Just make sure you have no pretense of Fantasy at all and have an open mind. While the game doesn't have many rules, really on 2 pages of rules, the "depth" of the game comes on the warscrolls and unit diversity.

Good luck at the store.

AoS is not Warhammer, The Game of Fantasy Battles. And it's not trying to be.

They both play very differently.

Warhammer is often won or lost at deployment. Your big old squares typically lack the manouverability to redress your line if you made a boo-boo, and a half decent opponent can exploit that.

AoS doesn't have that perk/downside (all opinion on that one!). Instead, you can stuff yourself over horribly in any given turn.

Let's look at the main difference - combat, and leadership.

In Warhammer, there's no sight more glorious than an army wide, carefully co-ordinated charge phase. Pick your order right, and you can roll up your opponents line, and crush him. That's a lot of fun.

AoS? Those mass charges aren't always massively desirable. The difference comes from the 'I pick, you pick' combat resolution. If it's your player turn, you pick a unit in combat and have it do it's stuff. That done? My turn. Except, I don't have to hit back with the unit that just took a pasting, nor attack the unit that was doing the pasting.

I can pick an entirely different combat.

Getting that right really isn't all that easy. If I over commit, it's possible some of my main units will be slapped silly before they get to swing. If I don't commit enough, I risk simply bouncing off.

Then comes Ld. Sadly, 8th Ed all but removed it, thanks to Steadfast, General and BSB. The main unit had to be ground down to dust, or otherwise very carefully dismantled. That lead to Deathstarring, a most dull tactic to my mind.

AoS however, has Battleshock. Here, instead of 'loser takes a break test', all units that took combat casualties take a Battleshock test (even if you wiped out your opponent's unit...). Simply roll a D6, and add the number of Casualties. Compare that to your unit's Bravery. For every point it's over your Bravery, you lose another model.

That opens up attrition in a new way.

Do give it a bash, I think you'll find it's a decent game in it's own right, even if you still end up preferring 8th Ed (which is likewise, a perfectly good game in it's own right)

That is very true. 8th edition was the edition of Death Starring which was a very dull game to a lot of people.

Steadfast

While they may have taken it too far, I believe Steadfast was somewhat a better idea for 8th given that 7th hardly had any big regimental units at all due to the fact that one good Cav Charge could easily wipe things out.

I agree with that. In my area and in my dying tournament days of 7th edition, most of the armies I faced were checker boarded cavalry tables where everyone had a bunch of 5-model cav units all trying to outflank and auto bust their targets.

So basically, what you're saying is that they should have just replaced Steadfast with Battleshock and call it a day?

Would have been pretty neat.

That, or they should've nerfed cav (and monsters, and magic, etc.) a bit. When they drew so much attention away from one of the basic aspect of mass battle gaming to the big, flashy models and big, flashy characters, it's little wonder rank 'n' file suffered. But trying to fix one overwhelming rule by tacking on another overwhelming rule is a bit stupid, to be frank. Take away Hanlon's razor, and steadfast was likely a misguided ploy to get you to buy more.

As opposed to 'low buy-in costs! But you'll still need almost the same number of minis to properly compete...'

Aaranis: I'd post a bit of a response - to convince you otherwise, TBH - but with this topic title in this board, I have a feeling you've already convinced yourself.

 Vermis wrote:
When they drew so much attention away from one of the basic aspect of mass battle gaming to the big, flashy models and big, flashy characters, it's little wonder rank 'n' file suffered. But trying to fix one overwhelming rule by tacking on another overwhelming rule is a bit stupid, to be frank.

That's kind of what GW did though. Magic isn't as insane, but big models are definitely a feature. In AoS the extremely powerful is commonplace, so everyone is (roughly) on the same (extremely bloody) playing field.

I agree that rank and flank needed toning down to work (and balance) well; which Mantic did. Hence Kings of War.

I'm going to the Warhammer store of my town today to get educated about AoS. Honestly at this level I just want to play with my minis, I think I'll accept my fate and convert to AoS haha. A great portion of players here did a similar things apart from some more reluctant players (I can't blame them), so I won't have a difficult time finding a game I feel. I'll wait a little before switching my bases and magnetising them still

WFBs rules was always about the characters. In practice the infantry was a liability. More minis costs more money, took longer to paint, while doing very little.

Now the characters had all sorts of rules, defences and mobility.

The game GW wanted was one with masses of infantry. I remember an old White Dwarf (issue 120 or so, WFB 3rd), where we heard about all the eggs in one basket, when a player had his elite unit with general, BSB and mage flee off the table. Also WD often has lot of focus on large, wonderful armies with plenty of infantry. That's the gateway to the hobby and games.

 Aaranis wrote:
I'm going to the Warhammer store of my town today to get educated about AoS. Honestly at this level I just want to play with my minis, I think I'll accept my fate and convert to AoS haha. A great portion of players here did a similar things apart from some more reluctant players (I can't blame them), so I won't have a difficult time finding a game I feel. I'll wait a little before switching my bases and magnetising them still

You don't even need to switch bases! Not unless your local group is really pushy about it. Basic rules say bases don't matter. Your IoB plus silver helms should give you about 1000 pts of High Elves, Skaven IoB also has about 820 pts. It is quite playable at 1000 pts for matched play, expanding to 2000 pts won't take a lot of investment, either.

 Aaranis wrote:
Honestly at this level I just want to play with my minis, I think I'll accept my fate and convert to AoS haha.

Well as long as you're doing it for all the right reasons, like really, really liking the game.

Is the Warhammer store your only gaming venue? What do those other 'reluctant gamers' do?

 Vermis wrote:

 Aaranis wrote:
Honestly at this level I just want to play with my minis, I think I'll accept my fate and convert to AoS haha.

Well as long as you're doing it for all the right reasons, like really, really liking the game.

Is the Warhammer store your only gaming venue? What do those other 'reluctant gamers' do?

Yes it's the only one, but don't be mistaken, I love it here, it's full of wonderful people and you can get a game really easily ! I say "reluctant" because like me they were disappointed by the killing of the WFB setting and the complexity of it. They also play 40k so I can always have a game anytime, it's just that if I want to play with my WFB minis I'll have to wait until I can build a legal list and all that, meanwhile I could play with them right away here with the AoS system.

I'll play a game tomorrow with the manager so he can show me the ropes of it, I'll read the 4 pages rules right away and he'll show me about the other rules in game. I'll play with 12 Seaguards, 10 Silverhelms, 5 Reavers, 1 Archmage, 1 Prince on Griffon, 10 Swordmasters and 10 Phoenix Guards. I quickly calculated in the shop and must have around 1000-1200 points worth. It's difficult to find the new names of the units now that they have changed, and it seems some are playable but not really ? The ones in the Compendium, didn't really got all of that.

The biggest thing is you have to divorce yourself from the concept of whfb, "complexity" and anything that whfb used to be.

If complexity is a requirement for you, then you won't really like whfb. For that matter you probably wouldn't like Kings of War either since modern game design is about removing complexity.

AOS is its own game, with its own nuances. Its main strength is in its easier rules. Its main weaknesses are that if you play games from an immersion standpoint, the game is very gamey and immersion and physics and "what would happen in real life" take a back seat or not included at all.

AOS has its own tactics and strategies. It is not shallow, but a lot of people think that easy rules means shallow game.

Hey guys, so I played a 1000 pts game today with the manager to show me the ropes. We got a draw !

I have to say I definitely like AoS, but I can see it needs more development though. I'll still wait until they redo the Elves before buying more minis, same thing for the Vampires since there's only the Flesh Eaters court that got sigmarized yet. Units seems decently powerful enough, and I didn't feel like I had units useless at all. I don't know how the game is balanced right now, but these Stormcasts were definitely beatable. My Elves are still rightfully flimsy, except for the Phoenix Guards who needed 4 combat phases and one shooting to get down to the last man, I like them already ! I love how the Reavers were made really useful too.

 Aaranis wrote:
Hey guys, so I played a 1000 pts game today with the manager to show me the ropes. We got a draw !

I have to say I definitely like AoS, but I can see it needs more development though. I'll still wait until they redo the Elves before buying more minis, same thing for the Vampires since there's only the Flesh Eaters court that got sigmarized yet. Units seems decently powerful enough, and I didn't feel like I had units useless at all. I don't know how the game is balanced right now, but these Stormcasts were definitely beatable. My Elves are still rightfully flimsy, except for the Phoenix Guards who needed 4 combat phases and one shooting to get down to the last man, I like them already ! I love how the Reavers were made really useful too.

If all things go accordingly you'll get some kind of elven update this summer, and death may get something at the end of the year or the beginning of the following. I'm glad you enjoyed it, though it may not yet fulfill the standard you desired, just hoping it does and thus you can enjoy things even more.

Glad you had fun. It is a good game. It's a different game. I thought it needed "a bit more" as well but sometimes having a bare bones game can just be as much fun as a game with 10 000 rules.

I didn't think sometimes "less is more" for game rules would work, but it can work. Not saying how all games should be but it's nice to have an option like this for a miniatures game when you don't feel like a convoluted game like 40K or more complex game like Warmahordes.

Nice and simple is a good alternative to have as well.