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Kungfuhustler wrote:@Focusedfire: I can beat tau, handily, if I writw a biased list aggainst tau. anyone can. The necron list you described is def non-standard as well. My issue against tau was that with the 3rd ed IG codex Mechanized armies had no chance.

Srsly though, I have seen you write some of the most absurd crap in support of this "fan dex" that the battle psykers are protesting your internet access! rapid fire markerlights? really?

Really, You can beat Tau. Not what you said here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/238303.page


Now as to the non-standard list comment..........

There seem to be two kinds of people playing 40K these days.(Both IMO and YMMV statements being made here. Generalized statements from personal experiences.)

1)One type is the kind of person who likes to explore the options and run "Non-Standard" lists looking for new tactics and combinations that may have escaped notice. These people are creative tactical thinkers not satisfied with giving up on a unit or tactic just because some one says that it is not optimal. They will find out for themselves and decide from their own experiences. Then they will combine what they have learned with what others have said. A lot of times these to things don't agree and sometimes one of these people finds a new powerful way to play a certain army. These people are usually not the average tourny player. They are creative. They will play other armies just to better understand the tactics of their favorite. The majority of people I play with are this kind of player. I am one of those people.

2)The other type seems to be the number crunching analyst who runs around with cloned spam lists. They are not prone to be overly creative and usually belive that the majority of game tactics lie in how they write their army list. IMO (which come from my personal experiences) I believe that more of the Tourny players fall into this catagory. Also been my personal experience(YMMV), that this type individual is not overly creative and tend to ridicule those that are. That is until some creative individual comes up with a new tactic then they just clone the army and call the guy genius until he proposes the next "Non-Standard" tactic. You are coming across as that type of individual to me.


Now the final line in your post is quite amusing.

It tends to support what I'm saying about the unimaginative ridiculing the creative process because they don't understand. I'll try to explain. The game of 40K is called Sci-fantasy. It could just as easily be called Sci-fi. The point is that nothing has any real basis except for what the back story gives. That back story can be changed and rewritten as needs of the game dictate. People talk about what is cannon in 40K history. I find this amusing because if it was profitable enough GW would rewrite the story turning the Emporer into an Emperess. Nothing is really cannon, just some things are very unlikely to change.

To the point that I am making. The old markers are heavy1 weapons. Because that is how they came out it is viewed that that is how it should be. If they had come out, originally as assault 2 with some good story as to why, then no one would question them being so. If you made that change now people will howl. This is rightly so if the background story remains unchanged. Now the new background justification will be purely fiction, a work of fantasy, but if the fluff sounds plausible enough people will accept the change and new players won't even know the difference.

In the case of the markerlights moving to rapid fire there are two fluff justification that I could use.

1) The simple beams refract in the atmosphere so targets "painted" at a distance do not give as clear or strong of a signal as when closer. As a result the target is not "mapped" as accurately. The additional counters for when in close represent the increased benefits from being close enough to pin point the target without the chance of refracted signal giving a scattered image.

2)The Tau have moved to simple beam targeted Bio/energy imagers that give an instant generalized 3-D computerized map of the Target at extreme ranges. In close these markerlight generated scans become very precise allowing for pinpoint fire of such accuracy that the guided teams are able to shoot cleanly through the thickest cover.


This is all beside the point as it is only an idea that I'm playing around with for an Unofficial Codex/Fandex. This book will not be tourny legal nor is it intended to be. The Fan-dex I'm writing is for putting out ideas of how I think the Tau should look and function. If people like it when I'm done and want to play their Tau built according to this fan-dex in private games, I can only hope that they will enjoy. Emphasis on they, not just the Tau player. Hopefully the opponent will find the Tau as I'm writing them to be a very tough but enjoyable army to play and both win and lose to. I need to get back to work on this fan-dex, I've already spent too much time discussing this with you.

Hope you will find a way to beat the Tau. I'll try not to bore you with"Absurd Crap" by inviting you to use the ignore function. In return I will refrain from advice on how to beat the Tau in your thread.

Next Idea, Nothing formalized just a concept. Drone Tanks, independent drone squadron under the command of the command tank?

The command tank gives bonuses but if taken out the squadron still functions.

Any thoughts?

Are we talking Tank/Hammerhead/Skyray kinda big boom or Tank/piranha small mobile?

I don't like the idea with the large tanks.

A small mobile "Piranha type" tank with some kinda defensive abilities seem to fit my vision of Tau.

The Idea in general seems to fit, but I'm not a fan of a drone squad/tank, gamewise I would say they would have to move like scarabs with turbo boost kinda stuff to keep up with the idea on a fast moving squad/tank controller.

If you where thinking a large tank then I would reverse it and make the drones purely defensive, but I don't like this idea.

Edit: I think the forgeworld model would work great for it.

When it comes to updating Tau, there's basically two choices:

1. Fix all the wargear that doesn't function (ignore target priorty tests, etc.) and just give it a little polish, but not make dramatic changes.

2. Revamp the whole codex top to bottom and try to create an army that fits the fluff.

I hope that GW and any fan-dex goes with 2. But, 1 is the easier route.

In regards to markerlights. Pathfinders are described in the fluff as 'pulling their cadre forward to battle'. So, it seems they're some sort of advanced scout and/or forward observer for the army. But, since they're the cheapest source of markerlights, what do people do? Hide them in the back in cover and/or surrounded by some FWs or Kroot, and let a 6-man FW team hide in their Devilfish to claim an objective. So, to me, that means that Pathfinders don't work according to their fluff, and they should be revamped, and part of that likely includes changing the markerlight. Those are things that I hope get corrected.

Focusedfire is going with 2 he is writing it according to the current fluff and the caste system.

I agree that this will be the coolest choice to see. But I see GW going with 1 :( but if Fire's fandex is as much as I think it will be I will gladly show it to any Tau player that doesn't like the new one.

The reason why Markerlights don't work is because they are too expensive, inflexible, and vulnerable under 5e rules.

Just off the top of my head you could could knock points off of ... most vehicles and those networked markerlight drones.

I said it up above but I think a cool rule would 3 Drones per suit, maybe keep Stealth teams at two or even put them down to one. Or else a number of drones equal to the number of wounds but that is getting complicated/ a different rule.

While we are on the subject of pathfinders a second transport option would be useful. An AV11 type transport. So the Devilfish fills a Gun Boat/ Transport role and the lighter vehicle just has a burst cannon or a couple of drones.

As far as the core rules are concerned there should be one or two basic lists you can build and they should be able to hold against most armies. Say a couple Fire Warrior teams with Kroot, a couple Hammerheads, Pathfinders, etc, etc. Stealth Team with Crisis Suits. Fusion Pirahanas. If they are horribly outgunned/ outbeat then there is something wrong with the army.

@Tacobake- Pathfinders are getting the Tetra but I want to change it into a two wound jetbike. If I end up not making that change there will be a drone jetbike in its place.

The Pathfinders are getting the Skyray as a transport.


Tha current trend in codices is for there to be 3-5 lists that can hold their own. I'm shooting for 3-5 build types with a few fairly functional theme builds thrown in.

Tacobake wrote:
As far as the core rules are concerned there should be one or two basic lists you can build and they should be able to hold against most armies. Say a couple Fire Warrior teams with Kroot, a couple Hammerheads, Pathfinders, etc, etc. Stealth Team with Crisis Suits. Fusion Pirahanas. If they are horribly outgunned/ outbeat then there is something wrong with the army.

This I like. When tau get a new dex, i really want to see a footslogging army, mech, semi-mech all playable again. Farseight's suit hvy army should be viable as well. Nothing needs to be totally metagame shaking, we just need to be good enough to compete with more than a ninja tau build.

Hey Casper, how ya been doin lately.

I've noticed a trend that I like in the more recent codices. Every codice will be somewhat metagame altering because of armywide special rules that help to define the army. I am all for the various armies becoming more distinctive.

These distinctions may change the game to where we see whole new types of armies, you never know.

I'm looking for the Tau to become an elusive, just barely out of reach, like fighting ghosts with your bare hands army. An army that you will actually have to consider when making your all comers build.

The builds I'm looking at are:

Standard- General purpose core Tau army much as it is now but more effective.(Coalition Force, has a little of all of the following styles.)

Stealth- Ghost army that is a strong scouting style of army. Hits fairly hard, almost impossible to see or pin in and catch in one place but if you do is extremely fragile.
Uses the availabilty of stealth in every FOC slot to make a nasty peek-a-boo JSJ army.(Uses Stealthsuits, Stealth vehicles(?), alien auxilla, pathfinders and firewarriors)

MEQ/Tech-Battlesuits and drones deepstriking. This is the tough as nails out in the open lets shoot it out style army that uses a ton of crisis suits and drones.(Drone/Crisis/Tech deepstrike and JSJ army)

Mechanized- A Higher firepower, more manuverable version of what it is now with a few new unit options.(Improved hammerheads, Barracudas, Pirahnas, Jetbikes, and transports)

Foot-sloggers- The alien auxilla army brings a varied array of Tau augmented weapons or skills to the battle field. These Equals in the Tau Empire fight while supported by the best shooting infantry and most durable infantry heavy support available.
(This army uses the Ethereal as guidance, Kroot(including great gnarlock), Vespids, Maybe a new race(?), while supported by a Broadsides, pathfinder, and fire warriors gun-line.)

Please keep in mind that these are not set in stone you have to build just like this lists. These are just my ideas of what certain builds should look like that I use to help guide me as I write this.

I hope that I'm coming across clearly. Sometimes it is easier for me to write the rules than to describe the builds.

hm... a worthy thing to check... let's see if mine can match up...

Stealth: HQ and Elites no problem, obviously. Troops have Kroot, which while not stealth FIELD do have regular stealth and infiltration. Fast Attack has the Remora, and you CAN get some extra sniper drones in heavy. However, I do lack stealth tanks (which would be a bit too much I imagine, but definitely worth a 'special' slot. There IS the mirage apocalypse formation though, which is downright delicious).

JSJ is no problem, as it can be even found in troops, and to a lesser extent sniper drones (these have 3" move and assault, so its a very short relentless JSJ). So for denial, it should do pretty well.

Deepstrikers: As usual its everywhere; although the ethereal and heavy commander suit can't pull it off. Elites as usual no problem, Troops have the drones, fast attack can pull it off with vespid, remora and tetra/piranha teams can outflank, though that's not the same. Still, ninja-tau alive and well. Its easy enough to get as many suits as in the regular 4th edition codex.

Mech: Well, more vehicles. Remora, Tetra, Piranha all have had minor upgrades and/or point drops, Hammerheads cheaper, a bit more customisable, Warfish configurations have better firepower: skyray becoming a devilfish system instead makes a huge leap forward in mech tau's ability on its own. Battle Drones are near-MC jetbikes.

Footslogging: HQ can broadside it,as can its retinue. Elites can hold the needed pathfinders, kroot and fire warriors are of course right there in the troops section, fast attack has vespid but really, that's jump troops. Vespid's small changes ensures they're now worth taking for the most part, though they're still a bit too fragile for their price (they'd start being too good otherwise though most likely).

its still horribly advantageous to take pathfinders: they can more or less stack a set of markerlight counters on a unit, leaving the rest of the army's lights to pinpoint something else. Overall though I think I've gotten pretty close to making just about anything in the FOC worth giving a shot with almost anything else.

You are forgetting that stealthsuits are ideal in 5e to take markers as being jet packers they are relentess.

New rule:
For the Greater Good!: All Tau units (not kroot and vespid) are stubborn(tanks ignore crew shaken results) and may regroup when under 50% .

Bonding Knife: Adds +1 Ld base to whole units

New Character:

Sa'cea Shas'vre (what ever means marksman or similar)

WS:4 BS:7 S:3 T:4(5) I:3 A:3 Ld - Sv 3+

Wargear:
Enhanced Rail Rifle, Tetrium (yes, I made it up 5 seconds ago) Armour, Pulse Pistol

Rules: Survival Instinct, Master Pathfinder, Rouge, Expert Marksman

Enhanced Rail Rifle:
Customized by (character) himself , it uses the following profile:
Str: 7 AP: 2 Range: 36"

Once per game he may choose to fire an incendiary round at a target with following profile:
Str: - AP:1
When fired at a vehicle he counts as shooting a haywire grenade at the target.
At infantry it will wound on a 2+ and always cause instant death regardless of eternal warrior or other rule.

Tetrium Armour:
Made out of an unknown mineral on a suicide mission, it is a light, flexible and strong material. It grants him a 3+ Sv as well as a 5+ invulnerable Sv and +1 toughness (already included above).

Pulse Pistol:
See Tau Armoury

Survival Instinct:
Having seen people die in almost every imaginable way from lasgun to psychic telekinesis, he has gained heightened instincts and as such is fearless, does not take any armour saves for losing combat and will elude any who attempt to chase him down (always beats opponent on initiative roll off, they may still consolidate however). He is also Relentless

Master Pathfinder:
One of the best scouts in the galaxy at large he has the following special rules:
Stealth, Infiltrate, Scout, he is also not impeded by terrain in any way (including shooting, so no cover saves whatsoever [eat that ratlings]). Any unit out flanking or deepstriking within his LOS always come on on a 3+ (Unless automatic) and -1 to all enemy reserves in LOS

Rogue:
He has never really respected authority and has been known to call 'colleagues' to a battle and as such the Tau player may take ONE unit outside the FOC (if firewarriors they do NOT take the place of the compulsory two Troops choices). He may also be taken in a list that includes Commander Farsight.

Expert Marksman:
When shooting at an enemy squad the attacking player may allocate wounds, not the owner

History:
When he was young his parents were killed in the Taros campaign and was left in the lower parts of one of Sa'cea's major cities, the fire cast administration eventually discovered his existence and after trying to bring him to an academy they realized that he was to elusive for a direct approach so sent some pathfinders after him (disguised in plain clothes) after several years they finally apprehended him and made him a pathfinder, when finally time came for him to be promoted to 'vre he refused to pilot a battle or stealth suit, so he was sent on a suicide mission in an imperial city (where his natural tendencies would prove invaluable) to take out a power grid, however it became unstable and blew up, believing him dead they attempted no rescue until several years later when he stole an imperial transport and made it to a Tau border colony.

Context: This is more of an outline for this character, I know he is way overpowered (lol a 500 pt character) that is why there is no pts cost, I just thought a pathfinder character would be a new perspective.

I'd add a rule that forced opposing scouts/infiltrators to deploy no closer that 18" flat out. Next, I'd work in some army special rule that allows the Tau player to choose which army deploys first irregardless of who gets first game turn. Maybe bundle that with an Ethereal since they do call the shots.

The Tau are not a forgiving army if you have to deploy first or face an army of scouts/infiltrators ('Nids) it's just too much of an uphill battle to be called "balanced". With the other armies I've played, Ork, Marines, Tyranids and Dark Eldar, being out deployed was only a big deal if I didn't pay attention to Assault timing. Tau don't Assault (please don't tout Kroot - they're really not that good assaulters) so that "balancing" of tactics isn't there.

@Krellnus: I myself love the idea of a new character but I would have to nit pick yours cause I don't like his story and a couple effects if I may I would like to show you my interpretation of Sa'cea

Shas'vre Monat Vral'tol (Monat:Individual Vral:Undercut Tol:Comand)

Or Vral Tau'aun (Undercut the Ethereals.) as he is known to the Ethereals and his unit.


During the war for T'ros the Tau had the benefit of defending the planet and time to set up fortifications. However the invading imperium had the upper hand once on the ground the Tau didn't have the benefit of the Space Marines strength and heavy armored vehicles neither the speed of the Tallaran guerrilla tactics, the city was to compact for strait fire from the railguns and the guided missile systems to strike the heavy armored yet easy maneuverable land raiders. The Kroot mercenaries helped all they could but even they could not hold long against the invading forces. It wasn't soon after the Tau were losing Tarokeen that the Ethereal caste issued the use of the experimental Stealthsuit XV32 to the Shas'vre Monat this new suit was designed with close quarters combat and heavy armor destruction in mind, a neuro net running up and down the limbs enhances the pilots natural strength and speed without the bulkiness of the larger suits, this allows for the fusion Blaster mounted under the arm to be easily lifted and fired for quick blasts before an assault, their may have been multiple weapons designed for this suit though not introduced.

Monat was not an outspoken follower of Farsight but he did not completely believe the Ethereals and sometimes questioned their intent though he never showed it. After being issued this new suit he was set to the task of taking back Tarokeen. The reports had come in that the city was being taken back by his single unit, as the word that the Tau where driving the Imperium back made it to T'ros's populace a large percentage of them defected and took up arms along side the Tau. After Tarokeen was recaptured Monat was ordered to return the suit. Monat spoke out about this as he believed he could do much more good using the suit and that the Ethereal's were trying to keep power out of the hands of the Tau, this brought again a small schism within the Tau as his words rang true to some of the Tau on T'ros, this lead Monat and a large portion of the Stealthsuits to break away from the Tau and search for power to bring back to there suppressed race.

Schism Commander Vral Tau'aun Cost 160
WS:5 BS:5 S:4 T:4 W:3 I:3 A:2(3) Ld:9 SV:2+

Equipment: XV32 Stealthsuit, XV32 Nuero Sword, XV32 Fusion Blaster, Iridium Armor Plates, Blacksun Filter, XV32 Stimulant Injector.

Unit Type: Infantry.(Note: Not Jump infantry)

Special Rules:
Independant Character:Except when accompanied by his Stealthsuit retinue, Schism Commander Vral Tau'aun is an independent character.

XV32 Stealthsuit: The experimental XV32 Stealthsuit grants the user the Relentless and Fleet of Hoof(lol) special rules, and has built in Iridium Plates and a Blacksun Filter.
XV32 Fusion Blaster: This fusion Blaster has had its firing rate increased so it may be used to lay down fire will rushing toward the enemy though at the cost of some power. A unit with it acts as if they had frag grenades. I also has the following profile
Range "10 Strangth 9 AP2 Assualt 2
XV32 Stimulant Injector: The Injector on the XV32 suit had to be cut down so it doesn't work as fast as the older heavy versions which can inject more into the users system. When Schism Commander Vral Tau'aun has only 2 wounds left he benefits from the Feel no Pain spacial rule.
XV32 Neuro Sword(not in love with the name): This sword uses the experimental Neuronet technology to make its use as fluent as if it was an extension of the wielder. In close combat it acts as two close combat weapons(therefor giving +1 attacks)/OR It counts as a Power weapon.(The OR is not in game but me asking your opinion.)

Kauyon Belief: Even with all his new physical prowess he holds true to the Kauyon way. Schism Commander Vral Tau'aun must be held in reserve, even in games that don't normally allow reserves. He becomes ready on your third turn but you may choose to not deploy him and his unit till your fourth turn. He and any unit he is with my come onto the board from any side and may act as normal upon arrival.

Farsight Retainer: If you take Farsight along with Vral Tau'aun, Vral and his retinue doesn't take up the 1 allowed stealthsuit choice.

Stealthsuit retinue: Schism Commander Vral Tau'aun may be accompanied by (not up to)5 XV22 Stealthsuits each equiped with a fusion blaster for 200 points.

This idea is to be a heavy armor/tank hunter.

@Krellnus: Well now that I put him on paper he is nothing like what you made ^_^;; Yours is a Tau Vindicare , Mine is a whole new heavy armor/tank hunter unit .

@Krellnus- Nice uber-charater. I'm going to nitpick though.

The problem from my personal view point is to many special rules and too much non-standard stuff for a Tau Leader.

The next is he himself is too special. He is a great concept for a story but bringing him on the table would unmake the tau in my eyes.


In my fan-dex the Special Characters and regular Commanders aren't going to be very special. From my point of view a Tau fire Caste commander should lead by example. This means using the same weapons that the regular units have access to. They will have abilities that lend towards defining different army builds and equipment that supports these abilities.

Special Issue Equipment now means one unit may take said weapon or wargear instead of one leader model. This makes more sense fluff-wise for how field testing would occur.

Any non standard equipment that a special character or a commander would get that is different from his squad would be given from the stand point of mission orientaion(Communications equip to lead battle) or Fluff(Something pick-up during Travels). Note that these special items while beneficial are also limiting due to the restrictions to other gear and is either "A" weapon or "A" piece of waergear or armour..

This is because to me the Tau are about elevating the ideal rather than the individual.

@Mr.R4nd0m- The unit you have designed while interesting doesn't quite come across as being a great blend of tech unless you are planning on dropping the stealth spotting distance to 2D6x2. Then they seem about right.

I thought about dropping the spotting distance but ended up leaving that part alone and instead reworked the cover and blast/barrage benefits by allowing you to make your opponet reroll scatter upon direct hits and an extra point of natural coversave always.

Not sure about giving Tau mini-termies.

See ya soon

@Mr.R4nd0m: (imitates borat) Is very nice, I like it.

@Focused: I concur your point (I enjoy nitpicking myself), but it was only an idea (lol tau vindicare), I just like the thought of a pathfinder shas'vre character (remind anybody of tellion). Honestly I expected a more pedantic response. (Nag, Nag, to Uber, Mega Nag). Edit: can you please e-mail me a copy of your fan-dex (so curious).

focusedfire wrote:In my fan-dex the Special Characters and regular Commanders aren't going to be very special. From my point of view a Tau fire Caste commander should lead by example. This means using the same weapons that the regular units have access to. They will have abilities that lend towards defining different army builds and equipment that supports these abilities.

I'm unlikely to have more than one or two; it took me this long to even want to touch the idea of special characters, but I'm actually taking this to its limit: Special characters do NOT have 'special issue' gear in my 'dex; such veterans have standard, reliable weapons, likely the same set they've used and mastered for years.

Honestly though I've always found the not-Aun-shi specials pretty lame, but that this was greatly compensated for by our regular battlesuit commanders being so much more 'special' than a lot of other armies feel (save chaos obviously).

Special Issue Equipment now means one unit may take said weapon or wargear instead of one leader model. This makes more sense fluff-wise for how field testing would occur.

Here I'm actually going the other way: Reliable, proven, easy to maintain/replace weapons and wargear are actually valued fluffwise more than the 'prototypes': one's equipment should never put one at risk, soldiers aren't expendable. Higher ups are asked to handle it because someone has to, if it breaks down they can still affect the battle in other ways, and the tactica, minor bugs and words of wisdom regarding the 'upcoming new system' have to get taken care of somehow.

Special Issue equipment is a dubious honor, where the lack of ammo or inherent risks and perils are taken by those who've already lived a good long life, and have the experience needed to minimise the damage or casualties should it turn out that new shield design flickers off if it ever gets wet in a sandstorm. Its still an honor, even the empire likes its heroes after all, and "the Fio in R&D are hoping you'll have some good words about that new burst design; it just got past the 'sometimes explodes' stage!" is a whole lot more humble than "here be thine medals and planet, governor".

Multiple copies are possible (up to 2 of one single system between 1750 and 3000 points, or 2 of two or 3 of one at or beyond that much), and those, if taken, must be on the same unit, but overall there's not much change in my case. Hell one of the systems is in fact a CHEAPER shield generator (in a 'you get what you pay for' way). Its special issue and only 10 points, but its nowhere near as powerful as a shield will usually be.

Not sure about giving Tau mini-termies.

That alone should pretty much raise the giant red flag...

focusedfire wrote:
In my fan-dex the Special Characters and regular Commanders aren't going to be very special. From my point of view a Tau fire Caste commander should lead by example. This means using the same weapons that the regular units have access to. They will have abilities that lend towards defining different army builds and equipment that supports these abilities.

I like this idea. It gives Tau characters a niche to fill that other armies don't emphasize. I do believe that the idea of said leaders bearing slightly better weaponry is within the Tau idea, however, as long as the weapon is recognizably similar to what is typically used.

As to the special characters discussion, that is one of my strong suits. (at least, flavor/crunch-wise, balance is a little tricky.) However, as I don't play Tau, (or play anyone who plays Tau) I'm a little lost for ideas.
Could you tell me if this "character" fits Tau fluff and so forth?


Shas’o Sa’cea Kais Mont’ka and Shas'o Sa'cea Kais Kauyon
Born some decades ago on the Fire World Sa'cea, these twins were born on the longest day of the season, and it was suspected that they would become great warriors. Occasionally, such beliefs are true. Both brothers showed great strategic and tactical skill, and decided to follow the separate strategies of Mont'ka and Kauyon, to better complement the other on the battlefield. The brother's close ties and skill resulted in them always receiving promotion together, until they were both Commanders of Tau forces. The two exhibit the recorded near-telepathy of twins, and work as one to win a battle. Their only known weakness is a potential over-reliance on the other, as they almost never listen to advice from other Commanders or even Ethereals if it runs counter to their brother's.
The brother's focus on their respective paths has led Mont'ka to wear the standard Crisis Suit, while Kauyon is one of the few Tau Commanders who wears the XV88 battlesuit. The brothers are known for serving as almost avatars of their respective strategies, Mont'ka's hot-blood always searching for a weakness, while Kauyon tempers his brother's plans with patience and trickery.

These two Tau commanders must be taken together, filling both HQ slots. You may use them in a Tau army numbering 2000 points or more.
Points: 300
WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
Mont’ka 4 5 4 4 4 3 4 10 3+
Kauyon 4 5 4 4 4 3 4 10 3+

Unit Type: Jump Infantry(Mont’ka), and Infantry (Kauyon)

Equipment:
Mont’ka’s XV8 Crisis suit is equipped with a Twin-linked Plasma Rifle, and a Fusion blaster. In addition, he has a Multi-tracker, Stimulant Injector, and Phoenici Detonator.

Kauyon wears a modified XV88 Broadside suit, replacing the smart missile system for a Twin-linked Missile Pod. He also has a marker drone, hard-wired drone controller, and positional relay

Special Rules:

Independent Character: Unless with their bodyguard, both brothers are independent characters, following the rules in the Independent Character section of the Warhammer 40k rulebook.

Bodyguard: Mont'ka may take a bodyguard as described in the Tau Empires codex under the Tau Commander rules. Kauyon may take up to 2 XV88 battlesuits as his bodyguard. Any bodyguard he takes must be Shas'vre.

Battlesuits: Mont’ka’s battle suit grants him the Acute Senses and Deep Strike special rules. Kauyon’s grants Acute Senses.

Strike Here, Brother: Once per game, Kauyon may nominate an enemy unit in range, and fire his Railgun. On a hit, the unit is not harmed. However, the unit counts as a teleport homer for Mont’ka and any unit he’s attached to. If Mont’ka is no longer in reserves, this ability has no effect.

Die Like a Star: Mont’ka’s detonator is adapted from the standard Failsafe detonator by tapping into his life signs, and uses his death as an activating agent. The blast is more powerful, as the entire suit overloads in the last moments. Should Mont’ka be slain, place a large blast template where he fell, and resolve a strength 8, AP 3 hit against all under the template.

Vendetta: If one of the brothers is slain, the other must make a Morale test. On a failure, they fall back and cannot regroup. On a success, they gain Hatred(the enemy). From this point on, they gain Furious Charge, and will hit in close combat on a 3+ always.

(As a sidenote, my apologies for not commenting sooner, but as I mentioned, I don't know much about Tau, and so most of your discussions have been over my head in terms of whether they're fair or overpowered or not.)

tau don't need to be fixed. I have never lost as them. Although my competition wasn't grade A exactly...

@ AllWillFall2Me

No offense to the other writers, but the concept that you put out there was one of the more balanced, flavorful, and Tau-ish I've seen in this thread so far. I am a fan of your idea, and would like to hear more from you as far as special characters and the fan-dex goes.

Two thumbs way up!

@AllWillFall2Me-Your failsafe detonator has the exact stats as the failsafe in my new fandex. The only difference is that models in base to base with the detonating suit get no coversave but the rest do receive a coversave.


I really like your fluff and idea on the twins. I think they would make good replacements for when GW finally retires shadowsun and Farsight. I don't think that they could be used in my fandex "as is", though. I'll try to explain:

I'm working from a more inclusive Tau design regarding Alien allies. When you run the aliens, though, you will have to take an Ethereal as one of the HQ's(Unless they get moved to an advisor position).

From the PoV that I'm currently working from the twins are a little too Tau-centric. Now,IMO(as I percieve the Tau progressing), I could see the Twins emerging in the codex after the next one. Right now the Tau really need some Alien HQ choices to live up to their fluff of everyone is equal. After this is established then there would be room in the following codex.

P.S. I'd drop the taking up both HQ slots and have them take only one but there headstrong nature has mandated that there will always be an Ethereal present to balance them. If the ethereal dies then their symbiosis goes away as each brother pushes for his preffered style of warfare. Just kinda like the idea of a little sibling rivalry amoungst two hot headed Fire Caste twins. Just a thought.


(Special character fluff alert)
Now, I haven't really gotten into the fluff on My specials because I fear doing so will take more time away from devolping this fan-dex in what is currently an already busier than normal schedule. I will give this one leak.


For a full season did he walk amoungst them unknown. Watching, Listening, and Learning. Others that had come before him had met with swift deaths for their uncompromising demands. Demands to stand down and to submit once more to the will of the greater good. They had been unwise, there hasty actions even giving weight to this rebels accusations of the arrogance of the Aun.

But not this Aun. He was wise. He studied these rebels, their leader, and their overall conditions. The last was what concerned him the most. These people suffered terribly from the lack of balance that is essential to the existance of the Tau race. All Castes were still present but were not being lead to work in cooperation. The rebels had no understanding of the cycles of war and peace. The waged only war, rewarded only the warriors, and neglected the rest of the populace to the point of near collapse. Things were so bad that only the Military might of their leader and the basic instinct for survival kept them going......but it couldn't last much longer. Something had to be done about how these people were being led.

After much thought and meditation, he knew what he had to do. Having waited for the right moment and opportunity, he knew it was now time to act. The Rebel leader was to speak publicly this day. The Aun had made every preperation and taken every precaution to insure that he would be successful in his mission, knowing full well that in doing so he would never return to his home. With grim determination he set out for the circular ampitheater to do what no other Aun had ever had to do. Following his carefully planned route step for step the thought that this would be his final mission for Aun'Va echoed along with each step toward the place for this rebel to announce his latest victory. Tightly griping his Honour blade that was wrapped and hidden in plain sight across his shoulders.

So focused upon his mission that the Etheral was surprised at how quickly and uneventfully he arrived at the spot. The spot where he would change these peoples lives, the spot that placed him within blades reach of the rebel leader.

Now that he was at the spot, a calm over took him as he waited. The crowd gathered.
...and he waited.
The leaders bodyguards took up positions.
....and he waited.
The planetary govenor began speaking.
....and he waited
Finally, The govenor finished his speech and began to introduce the general of the rebel forces. It was a quick introduction with a very precise military honour procession entrance by the general.
....Still he waited.

Then, came the moment. The point where in every speech where the general would rail against the arrogance of the Etherals.

With a swiftness that could never be followed by any Tau eye the Ethereal sprang into action. With one beautifully smooth and liquid movement the Honourblade was uncovered and the Ethereal was on the stage with his blade whistling towards the generals throat. There was no time to react. The bodyguards, just beginning their expressions of shock and anger, could do nothing. The general, though, looked on calmly as if the blade was nothing more than a childs toy. He then began to step to the side with an unatural speed as the calm look began to turn into a smile.

This look immediately changed when he saw his attackers face and realized the move that was to come next. The Ethereal accelerated his blade downward quickly then swung it wide parrallel to the ground and swept the generals legs out from under him. The general hit the ground at the same moment that his old friends blade touched his throat.

Halt cried the Ethereal to the bodygaurds as the were just beginning to bring up their weapons. Holding his blade to the generals throat he then ordered the bodyguards to step away. The bodyguards were reluctant but complied. Now did the Aun turn to the general and order him to his feet.

There they stood. For everyone to see. The moment had arrived. The Aun took his blade and set the tip against the generals chest and cut deep. Then to everyones amazement he took the other end and did the same to his own chest. As the two old friends looked at one another their gazes were of an unusual contrast, with the generals was completely puzzeled and the Auna absolutely unfathomable.

Then very slowly did the Ethereal remove the blades from the wounds and ceremoniously reversed the ends of the blade and repeated the same cuts. The crowd gasped to see such a perversion of the Talissera. But before the hiss of anger could really start the onlookers were to be quickly amazed again as the etheral removed the blade tips and knelt before the general offering up the blade.

It was in this one unexpected act that Aun'shi and Oshova became bonded. It was also this moment that Aun'shi did what he felt was for the greater good by forswearing any allegiance to the Tau Empire and pledging his service to O'shova in order to help return balance to the suffering rebels.


Thats right, all of that wording to tell you that Aun'shi is back and now with O'shova. Now you know why I don't reveal too much of my fluff. Tell me what you think.


Edit for 1500th post celebration

@Krellnus-I agree about the pathfinder or foot-slogger shas'vre. I'm working on something along those lines for a possible rail rifle equipped retinue.



@Everyone-sorry for back to back posts.

@AllWillFall2Me: That is totally awesome.

@Focused Fire: Oh my God! (and I'm atheist) that is freaking awesome!, Other than that I am completely speechless (taking from family guy) Farsight: No, No, No, Stop it!, Stop it!. Aun'shi: Ok

@ Che-Vito: Thanks for that, I posted them with the belief that it'd get torn apart by you 'real' Tau guys.
As I said, I don't get to play Tau, so I don't know too much, but I'd be willing to look at anyone's fan-dex, and I could playtest it against my roommates and get their feedback. I'm always willing to try something new.

@focusedfire: First off, :slowclap: for that bit of fluff there. From the little I've read of the tau codices, Aun'shi definitely deserves a spot, and that was awesome fluff.
I'm glad you have a similar failsafe, as it was one of the few things my roommate disagreed with.
As to the Alien allies idea, I totally agree. I wrote those characters almost a year ago, when I was first getting into 40k. I didn't know much Tau fluff, so I stuck with what I knew.
With regards to the single HQ slot, do you think that's not overpowering? That was my main reason for the rule, to prevent getting two characters in one slot. But I suppose it's a little like Creed and Kell. If you think it's fine with just the one, then I'd be willing to do it. I'll take a look into the 'squabbling brothers' idea.

As I mentioned to Che, I'm willing to look at any fan-dexes the writers want to send me. Also, if there's any special character ideas you'd like me to work on, I'll give them a shot. I'll try and put together a Kroot character later, to try and get a feel for them.

@focusedfire well damn, am I gonna have to give up here? I originally tried to keep from adding any fluff as much as possible, but that's probably gotten it nice and ignorable by now... I'm certainly confident about the rule/unit changes I have, though.

Most people do seem to love their special characters; I myself kinda edge the other way, being more attached to carefully crafted/designed standard commanders and vehicles...

@Krellnus & AllWillFall2Me- Thank you both for the compliments. To tell the truth, I was a bit ashamed to post that tidbit as it was pretty much just the first draft where I put idea to paper. I still have a fair bit of editing for sentence structure, paragraph composition, and general tweeking for a smooth/fluid reading experience. There are repetitve phrases that will be exchanged for fluff accurate terminology during this editing process(Didn't have a Tau book around when I jotted this down). I do intend to keep the feel of the reader not knowing exactly who is doing what to whom until the characters meet, though.

Again, Thank you for your kind words.


As for the Fan-dex my schedule this week has forced a temporary pause for the next day or two then I'll be back to work on it. Please to note that I write on legal pads first then transcribe to the computer. I'm just now getting to the point that the legal notepad portion is almost finished. Once I do finish this portion however, the transcription process is usually very quick. When I get done I will get copies to all who have expressed an interest.

@Nova- Not trying to force the issue. Was responding as to why I don't give more fluff. I think that I have some neat backstory ideas that help to define the Tau in my Fan-dex but was attempting to show why I wasn't giving more fluff detail.

While there will be several new upgrade characters and command types there will only be one or two new Specials. One of them being Aun'shi an already existing character from the Tau back story. The other would be my heavy battlesuit leader if I decide to include him.

I have decided to not use Angkor Prok but rather his decendants as an upgrade option to the Master Shaper HQ option. It will be called the Kindred of Prok upgrade.

Now where I am not a fan of the Uber-character I do like having Special generals that are better at leading certain types of forces. I think of it like this. "Who would you rather be the battlefield leader for your Armoured Cav.? Patton or Bradley?" Same question, but this time they are the battlefield leader for your infantry forces. I want better tacticians rather than uber-warrior armies of one. I'll leave that to the SMs

The primary reason why I did the redo on the Aun'shi and O'Shova fluff is because the Farsight enclave is going to represent one of those different styles of builds. As I explained a page back or so. Fluff helps to provide the reason for rules, weapon, and equipement stats changing. Due to the amount of restructuring I am attempting it seemed necessary to give justifications on why things had changed so much. Tell a Tau player that Farsight now has Aunshi as an independent advisor, that one or both now have eternal warrior, and the unit restrictions are changing. They are going to gripe unless you provide the justification.

I also have to take the special characters into account when writing my rules, lest they unbalance the structure. With this in mind fan-dex is still being written from the standpoint that the normal commanders should suffice for a variety of competitive general builds but if you want to specialize a bit more then you will have the option to use the special characters to aid in the non-standard builds.(This last is sort of how I view it but feel that some clarifying thing is eluding me at the moment.)

@Fire: You missed your calling as a Black Library writer and I think this follows the characters their attitudes exactly. Can't wait for the codex.

Edit:spell check made Library into Librarain e.e (fixed)

@Focused You aren't related to Dan Abnett are you? I are being serious lol

With Rail Rifles maybe take 6" off the range and then make them assault or rapid (this comin from a player who wants mech but can't afford :( )

I'm leaving the Rail Rifle profile alone. The Ethereal is getting six guys armed with them as a possible retinue. The now defunct sniper drone spotter/controllers are now in this retinue with the new job of providing markerlights, unit shielding(Ranged only), and command & control benefits.(Still working on the last two for the unit spotters.

I'm probably going to tinker with my shield rules a bit. The shield drones will not give a invulnerable in HtH but produces area effect bubbles of ranged protection. Crisis suit sheild generators will provide HtH invulnerables for the equipped model. This will be in addition to the ranged shielding area effect bubbles I've already written previously.



I'd like some feedback on an idea that has been rollin around in my noggin.

Kroot Shaman-An army with a kroot master shaper may take 1 kroot shaman per kindred squad. The Shaman is a kroot that has been directed by the master shaper to consume things with the most psychic ability or potential in addition to what the rest of the kindred eat. This has produced kroot psykers.

I have not statted this as of yet because I'm really unsure about the Tau ever getting battlefield psykers. I can say that I was thinking along the lines of warlocks as to their in-game abilities.


Funny-GW almost painted themselves into a corner with the kroot genetic back story. There would have been no need for bringing in any new races into the Tau empire if the kroot had not been so tightly limited in their back story. It would have been to easy to say,"The Tau need Astropaths, have the kroot eat a few.""The Tau need super tough combat monster, have them eat a few orks or tyranids."
This is why I will probably keep the kroot some what limited as to the effect of their evolutionary adaptations.

Let me know what you think

Kroot differentiation would definitely bring some flavor back to them, beyond the Kroot Dog and Kroot Gorilla.