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 Testify wrote:

 Manchu wrote:

 Testify wrote:
It was an observation on the human condition. I've only ever had sex with girls I was in a relationship with, or knew very very well. But I know girls that has happened to, and as horrible as it sounds, it's really not the end of the world. Life goes on, and unless she has a boyfriend there's not much to be done about it.

As with AustonT, I'll ask you: what does "life going on" have to do with whether something is right or not?

Wait, we're discussing right and wrongs? Oh dear.

I got that impression. I mean, somebody did say this:

You can have your morality, I can have mine.

I just can't recall who though, can you?

 Testify wrote:
Wait, we're discussing right and wrongs? Oh dear

Uh yeah. I notice "oh dear" is something of a stock phrase next to a Union Jack but it's no substitute for an actual response.

Well, this thread has been fething quality so far.... Its bounced about more than a naked hurdlers ball-bag, I hope that the narcissistic bird with the smashing tits is typing her name in on google and happens to browse it.

I do like her tits. Smashing, as you say.

STOP OBJECTIFYING HER YOU MYSOGENSITS! LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE!

Wait, who were we talking about? What?

If there's anything we can learn from all of this, it's that if you're going to ask a girl to spank your ass and what her cup size is, get her drunk first.

Am I the only one proposing lock time for... this?

 Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:
If there's anything we can learn from all of this, it's that if you're going to ask a girl to spank your ass and what her cup size is, get her drunk first.

Am I the only one proposing lock time for... this?

Lock time for this was about 20 pages ago probably.

 mattyrm wrote:
Well, this thread has been fething quality so far....

I can honestly say, I had no idea that so many Dakkanauts could get on board with women being sexually harassed -- and deserving it no less -- before this thread. So it has been an eye opener. Like I posted earlier, I understand now why my wife insists on waiting in the car if I stop by the comic book shop or games store.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 daedalus wrote:
Lock time for this was about 20 pages ago probably.

Yes, we could have locked it as "a hopeless case" as soon as you -- on page one -- posted:

 daedalus wrote:
Step 1: Dress up to attract attention around unattractive people who characteristically have problems with social interaction, ESPECIALLY with women.

Step 2: Act surprised and outraged. Alert the media, because step 1 was still not enough attention.

Step 3: I blame the victim.

It could have been locked even earlier -- sadly you were not the first to make such comments. But like I mentioned to Matty, it has been interesting to see just how deep this rabbit hole goes.

 Testify wrote:

 Manchu wrote:

 Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:
...so no one should ever have sex with someone who is very inebriated?

Let's rephrase: if you have the opportunity to have sex with someone who is totally inebriated be aware that if you do it what you're doing might be considered rape by a court.

Define totally inebriated.

.

Do you really want a jury of twelve opeople who are not your peers to decide that for you, when your life hangs in the balance?

 Manchu wrote:

 mattyrm wrote:
Well, this thread has been fething quality so far....

I can honestly say, I had no idea that so many Dakkanauts could get on board with women being sexually harassed -- and deserving it no less -- before this thread. So it has been an eye opener. Like I posted earlier, I understand now why my wife insists on waiting in the car if I stop by the comic book shop or games store.

But like I mentioned to Matty, it has been interesting to see just how deep this rabbit hole goes.

So innocent. Heck if you thought this was a fun ride, next time try asking why some "game store" types why they don't have a girlfriend. You'll get a whole 'nother round of sad, creepy and out of touch.

There are reasons I only game with my private club.

 Testify wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
You only need worry about having sex with an intoxicated person if the morning after they accuse you of rape.

At that point, even if they had consented the night before, you are in trouble.

It's a judgement call if you ever find yourself in that situation.

We both know it's virtually impossible to prove rape in that situation. 99 times out of 100 the girl will say nothing and simply get on with her life. The 1% of the time she does, there's no way it'd make it to court.

You think that do you? Also do you have a few thousand (what do the British call pounds) er pounds laying around for a legal defense? Because baby you're gonna need it.

 Frazzled wrote:

 Testify wrote:

 Manchu wrote:

 Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:
...so no one should ever have sex with someone who is very inebriated?

Let's rephrase: if you have the opportunity to have sex with someone who is totally inebriated be aware that if you do it what you're doing might be considered rape by a court.

Define totally inebriated.

.

Do you really want a jury of twelve opeople who are not your peers to decide that for you, when your life hangs in the balance?

I doubt there's a jury that would send someone down for rape when both people are very drunk. You seriously think a democratic country would send someone to jail when the only witness was someone who was very, very drunk? Even if it was actual rape that wouldn't be nearly enough. There'd need to be actual witnesses.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Chongara wrote:

 Manchu wrote:

 mattyrm wrote:
Well, this thread has been fething quality so far....

I can honestly say, I had no idea that so many Dakkanauts could get on board with women being sexually harassed -- and deserving it no less -- before this thread. So it has been an eye opener. Like I posted earlier, I understand now why my wife insists on waiting in the car if I stop by the comic book shop or games store.

But like I mentioned to Matty, it has been interesting to see just how deep this rabbit hole goes.

So innocent. Heck if you thought this was a fun ride, next time try asking why some "game store" types why they don't have a girlfriend. You'll get a whole 'nother round of sad, creepy and out of touch.

Literally everyone in my gaming group has a girlfriend. I resent that you stereotype nerds in this way, in fact I think they are much less aggressive than "normal" men.

Some of the people I game with have multiple girlfriends.

 Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:
Some of the people I game with have multiple girlfriends.

Sound like my sort of person.

Unless you're from Salt Lake City.

You're missing the point. The point is not "I won't get caught." The point is "don't rape people." Don't rape them, don't sexually harass them, don't be a jerkwad generally.

 Manchu wrote:

 mattyrm wrote:
Well, this thread has been fething quality so far....

I can honestly say, I had no idea that so many Dakkanauts could get on board with women being sexually harassed -- and deserving it no less -- before this thread. So it has been an eye opener. Like I posted earlier, I understand now why my wife insists on waiting in the car if I stop by the comic book shop or games store.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 daedalus wrote:
Lock time for this was about 20 pages ago probably.

Yes, we could have locked it as "a hopeless case" as soon as you -- on page one -- posted:

 daedalus wrote:
Step 1: Dress up to attract attention around unattractive people who characteristically have problems with social interaction, ESPECIALLY with women.

Step 2: Act surprised and outraged. Alert the media, because step 1 was still not enough attention.

Step 3: I blame the victim.

It could have been locked even earlier -- sadly you were not the first to make such comments. But like I mentioned to Matty, it has been interesting to see just how deep this rabbit hole goes.

Man, I don't see it that way at all, my point is that you and many others are just taking the whole thing way too seriously.

And its really unfair to say that about not taking your missus to the comic book or games store, I take my missus there and she gets no hassle, she gets plenty in the pub.

Basically, attractive people get lewd comments directed at them, thats the end of it. It happens millions of times every day, and it isnt a big issue, the people that do it are crass, but the people that have it thrown at them should have thicker skins if they get super offended by it. If we were all so easy to upset, then the world would be flooded in tears, kids get raped, babies die, hobos masturbate themselves to death.. a child starves to death every second right? Such is life when the population is in the billions, should we all spend all day every day crying about all the misery and injustice in the world?! Of course not!

Honestly, I can't believe how badly you and others have taken it.. All I will say is that

1. You have been totally unfair to the gaming/nerd community, who are probably less pervy than say.. regular bar patrons, builders, military people. You seem to be painting us all as big fat neck beards with no social skills.

2. Most people (Even Auston) in my book weren't saying "you should sexually harass people" or "Its acceptable to sexually harass people" they were just saying "its not that big a deal"

And it really isn't.

Its common as muck, and 99% of people don't go ape gak about it, ergo, the 1% are overreacting, its not the 99% are being silly is it?

 Testify wrote:
I resent that you stereotype nerds in this way, in fact I think they are much less aggressive than "normal" men.

Until the internet comes into play ...

Or, for some douchebags, a comic book convention, a cameraman, and a group of geeky followers.

I'm seeing some connections between the two, actually.

 Manchu wrote:
Yes, we could have locked it as "a hopeless case" as soon as you

You mean that part where I accuse one party of looking for attention and the other party for being social fething misfits, and being only surprised by the fact that it doesn't happen more, again, and in plain English, WITHOUT CONDONING IT, and then get to listen to you rage on me (and others) about how shocking and unbelievable this is, and how we're not only bad people for not being filled with self-righteous moral outrage, but likely participate in that behaviour ourselves?

I bet my missus has had lewd comments thrown at her a few hundred times in her life, shes nearly 27.

I reckon none of them were from wargamers.

And for what it's worth, I'm not sure how life is in your cloistered ivory tower, but I see and hear raunchier things when I'm at the bar on a Saturday night. It's not nerds man, it's people. Get some scope.

*Ahem*

Misogyny.

Misogynist.

... That is all....

 Testify wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
You only need worry about having sex with an intoxicated person if the morning after they accuse you of rape.

At that point, even if they had consented the night before, you are in trouble.

It's a judgement call if you ever find yourself in that situation.

We both know it's virtually impossible to prove rape in that situation. 99 times out of 100 the girl will say nothing and simply get on with her life. The 1% of the time she does, there's no way it'd make it to court.

Then you will have nothing to worry about, and I wish you well in your adventures.

mattyrm wrote: I bet my missus has had lewd comments thrown at her a few hundred times in her life, shes nearly 27.

I reckon none of them were from wargamers.

Other than the ones from you, obviously

Kilkrazy wrote:
Then you will have nothing to worry about, and I wish you well in your adventures.

As I said above, i've only ever had sex with girls I was in a relationship with or very close to.

This thread has made me sad

 mattyrm wrote:
you and many others are just taking the whole thing way too seriously

This thread would have been done in a page if not for people insisting that not only is this instance of sexual harassment not very serious but also she had it coming. The idea that anybody deserves to be sexually harassed, no matter how you dress it up, is pretty fething serious.

 mattyrm wrote:
And its really unfair to say that about not taking your missus to the comic book or games store, I take my missus there and she gets no hassle, she gets plenty in the pub.

Just a sec, my friend. I'm not talking about where I take my wife. I'm talking about where my wife doesn't like to go after going there a few times. I didn't read this story and tell my wife she's not allowed down the comic or game store. My wife started to refuse to go because and said the people there we often creepy and awkward and I thought she was being a bit too sensitive until I saw these attitude come flat out ITT thanks to the anonymity of the internet.

 mattyrm wrote:
You have been totally unfair to the gaming/nerd community, who are probably less pervy than say.. regular bar patrons, builders, military people. You seem to be painting us all as big fat neck beards with no social skills.

Not only have I already addressed this, both throughout the thread and even in this very post, but Caruso herself also addressed it -- she clearly stated that most fellas at cons don't behave this way. But what I've seen here suggests that there are a lot of severely bad attitudes out there, not getting explicitly expressed in person, and to which I'm not especially sensitive as a bloke.

 mattyrm wrote:
2. Most people (Even Auston) in my book weren't saying "you should sexually harass people" or "Its acceptable to sexually harass people" they were just saying "its not that big a deal"

AustonT explicitly posted that this girl invited the sexual harassment she experienced by dressing as Black Cat. Good luck defending that.

The guys harassing the chick was uncalled for. It's not okay. She seems to be getting along just fine, but it doesn't mean it shouldn't have happened and I don't think anyone disagrees. If she wants to make a blog post about it nothing is stopping her and she's not a "bad person" for it. Women (and men) can dress how they want and no one should give them undue crap for it and if someone does, feth them. They deserve to be called out. Calling someone out doesn't make you weak or a bad person. That's the part I don't get. If it's "newsworthy" or not is the sole concern of the newspapers themselves.

 daedalus wrote:
You mean that part where ...

No I mean the part where you interpreted the case of Caruso being sexually harassed as the case of Caruso intentionally entrapping less sophisticated people and, being unsatisfied with their attention, deceiving the media so she could get more attention. You remember, this part:

 daedalus wrote:
Step 1: Dress up to attract attention around unattractive people who characteristically have problems with social interaction, ESPECIALLY with women.

Step 2: Act surprised and outraged. Alert the media, because step 1 was still not enough attention.

Step 3: I blame the victim.

You even nicely summarized your position there in point 3.

 Testify wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 Testify wrote:

 Manchu wrote:

 Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:
...so no one should ever have sex with someone who is very inebriated?

Let's rephrase: if you have the opportunity to have sex with someone who is totally inebriated be aware that if you do it what you're doing might be considered rape by a court.

Define totally inebriated.

.

Do you really want a jury of twelve opeople who are not your peers to decide that for you, when your life hangs in the balance?

I doubt there's a jury that would send someone down for rape when both people are very drunk. You seriously think a democratic country would send someone to jail when the only witness was someone who was very, very drunk? Even if it was actual rape that wouldn't be nearly enough. There'd need to be actual witnesses.

I submit your honor he doesn't know the US court system. Its not his fault. He's British. They have something called "loser" pays.

OK witnesses see you two together. They see she is drunk. She says she was drunk. Are you saying she wasn't drunk?
If she's "drunk" you lost my boy.

 daedalus wrote:
And for what it's worth, I'm not sure how life is in your cloistered ivory tower, but I see and hear raunchier things when I'm at the bar on a Saturday night. It's not nerds man, it's people. Get some scope.

Nerd creep might not be quite as a loud or overt as it is in a typical "meat market"-club type environmental, but it's certainly is staggeringly and alienating to people. Ultimately the numbers you see around you speak for yourselves. All these nerdy hobbies are overwhelmingly male dominated and it has nothing to do with women not enjoying them. The environment is generally hostile to women, the ones that stick around generally have either a high tolerance or are just a bit of a different personality who isn't bothered by certain things.

Really this issue a bit complex, and I don't have the energy address it fully right now.

 Manchu wrote:

 daedalus wrote:
You mean that part where ...

No I mean the part where you interpreted the case of Caruso being sexually harassed as the case of Caruso intentionally entrapping less sophisticated people and, being unsatisfied with their attention, deceived the media so she could get more attention.

Can you highlight the part where I condoned or endorsed their (the nerds) behavior?