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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Portland

 Red Harvest wrote:
Something something Duke Nukem Forever...

Just a batrep today. Meh.

Well, we have a nice book and LE mini coming. We have a lot of angry Yu Jing players and a company that had no fethin' plan for calming them. Not good marketing at all, given that the anger distracted from the new JSA stuff. Never draw attention away from new products.

Adepticon in 2 weeks. A long time to let players fume.


Do we have a lot of angry Yujing players? I've only seen a few complaining. Most seem content to wait and see what happens, or simply aren't bothered by this. I know as a Yujing player I'm not really bothered, although I certainly am curious. Maybe because I know we already went through something similar with the Exrah and it ended up working out fine for Combined Army. I think CB did have a plan for calming Yujing players, and it was telling them that more Yujing stuff will be out later this year. Its also widely speculated that a new sectorial is on the way.

   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut





Melbourne, Australia

 jake wrote:

Do we have a lot of angry Yujing players? I've only seen a few complaining.


The trheads on the official forums have enough anger for the whole community. Seriously, you think CB just called their mum fat.

The galaxy is littered with the single-planet graveyards of civilisations which made the economically sensible decision not to explore space. 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Portland

I guess I shouldn't be surprised.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm actually pretty eager to see what changes come for Yujing. It hurt a lot when CA lost Exrah, but very quickly we got Umbra legates, Rodaks, Unidrons, Fractaa and Maakrep, followed by a new sectorial about a year later. Arguably CA was in a worse place than Yujing is now (since CA was always fairly behind the other original 6 factions in releases), but I wouldn't be surprised to see something similar for Yujing over the next year.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/09 03:00:43


 
   
Made in us
Combat Jumping Ragik






Beyond the Beltway

Multiple rage threads on the official forum. I suspect a few non Yu Jing players who have concerns that their faction is next are chiming in. Since I have 300 points of Yu Jing (courtesy of Red Veil + Beyond RV) I guess I am a Yu Jing player, or will be, if I ever play more than the Red Veil Scenarios with them.

I'm disappointed CB did not plan this better, but not really surprised. As I've said, simply dangling the IA in front of everyone would have been such a good move. I expect it to be a very good sectorial, when it arrives. CB has yet to say much about forthcoming Yu Jing releases, at least that I have seen. Possibly at Adepticon.


 
   
Made in us
Yu Jing Martial Arts Ninja




NJ

Anybody see the BoW battle report?
What a slaughter.
Should have played a practice game first to get out all the bad rolls. Carlos wiped the floor with the other guy.

Is that a natural 21?
Nomads & Yu Jing 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





As much as I love the hobby, nothing saddens me as much as watching people react as irrationally as possible to changes.
   
Made in us
Combat Jumping Ragik






Beyond the Beltway

It's a reaction to having something arbitrarily taken away, not to changes per se. It's an entirely foreseeable reaction.


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Red Harvest wrote:
It's a reaction to having something arbitrarily taken away, not to changes per se. It's an entirely foreseeable reaction.


Still, the angst reaches some pretty bizarre levels. Honestly, this one isn't too bad. There's a LGS owner threatening to stop carrying PP products if they change immunities elsewhere that is a more prominent reaction weighing on my thoughts.
   
Made in gb
Multispectral Hsien





Gosport, UK

Plus, it’s only really a handful of people on the forums that are that annoyed by this, they’re just very vocal about it.

I think it’s Rumble on Route 66 this weekend, I think they’ve done seminars there before, so we might get some info this weekend.
   
Made in us
Consigned to the Grim Darkness






Svalarheima, MA

 Micky wrote:
 Alpharius wrote:


I would've thought that the Svalarheima stuff would be more popular that this - I mean, Jotums, amirite?!? - and would then mean we'd see them sooner rather than later!




I wonder... do you think those closed battle lists in Treason are part of a public beta, and/or are there to gauge interest? They know from their ITS / Army data what people are taking to events. If those Blizzard squads arent even being used at all they may decide to hold back due to lack of interest.


Good question - but I have no idea!

Also, anyone have a link the the old "Treason" closed battle lists so I can...refresh my memory?

Nil nos tremefacit.
 
   
Made in gb
Deva Functionary





Hampshire

 Alpharius wrote:
 Micky wrote:
 Alpharius wrote:


I would've thought that the Svalarheima stuff would be more popular that this - I mean, Jotums, amirite?!? - and would then mean we'd see them sooner rather than later!




I wonder... do you think those closed battle lists in Treason are part of a public beta, and/or are there to gauge interest? They know from their ITS / Army data what people are taking to events. If those Blizzard squads arent even being used at all they may decide to hold back due to lack of interest.


Good question - but I have no idea!

Also, anyone have a link the the old "Treason" closed battle lists so I can...refresh my memory?


Err, they're still current and available to download:
ITS Season 9: Treason v1.2
   
Made in ca
Hauptmann





 ImAGeek wrote:
Plus, it’s only really a handful of people on the forums that are that annoyed by this, they’re just very vocal about it.


Considering the small size of the active posting base over at the official forums the number of folks rankled by the changes actually make up a decent cross-section of the regular posting community. There are also scant few defending it as a good idea and even several of the folks who play Yu Jing that aren't expressing their displeasure are basically doing so on the back of a hope that the next release for the game is the Invincible Army (which certain comments on the BoW videos by Bostria have dampened a bit). Considering the normal tone of the official boards, that isn't exactly a warm reception.

Things sound little better on the Spanish side as well where apparently the disgruntled Yu Jing folks are attempting to organize a strike for the next global campaign (not that Yu Jing was going to do well after losing a sectorial anyways).

In all honesty, the number of outlets to discuss Infinity online are pretty limited. Dakka has a good range of opinions, but the official section is kind of dead and the only active place to post about it is this thread (which is naturally for news and rumours, even when it does get off track). Places like Reddit and Facebook tend to have unusually draconian moderators and so are even more of an echo-chamber than the official forums. That basically leaves 4chan general threads for earnest discussion about the game where you tend to be free of a lot of the warcor spin you get in other locations (and for the record, discussion about the split ate up three/four general threads this week, and reception was certainly not very positive).

Overall, while it wasn't an unmitigated disaster, CB definitely bungled their messaging on this one and soured a lot of folks on something that should have hyped the community up. Most of the folks that are upset aren't even necessarily upset about the split itself (though many are, because losing 15 profiles is never a great feeling), but rather CB's lack of response to the fairly obvious reaction it drew from many players. Their lack of communication, beyond telling Yu Jing players what they're losing and acknowledging that releasing the Shikami just before yoinking it away from Yu Jing, has been pretty bad.

A lot of the negative reactions were being held back to see what they did this week, and they basically just sort of ignored it. Most people were hoping for some glimmer. Some modified AVA's in vanilla to fill things out, a hint that the Invincible Army would be dropping soon or even next, or even just some new preview profiles to fill some gaps while we wait on a new sectorial release. Instead CB gave the usual eye-rolling "drinking their tears" comments, hinted that IA may not be coming this year at all (and instead said the already bloated ISS were getting more things) and generally declined to do anything other than attempt to hype the new release. As PR work goes, it was pretty tone deaf and it was obvious they were not prepared for the logical reactions to their actions.

CB's problems of poor communication and a lack of forward planning basically biting them in the again. After nearly a decade and a half in the business and this not being their first "we've decided to invalidate your models!" rodeo they still seem to be making the same blunders.

I think it’s Rumble on Route 66 this weekend, I think they’ve done seminars there before, so we might get some info this weekend.


We can certainly hope at least, but after how they've handled things like this in the past I'm just going to stay jaded and cynical until they prove otherwise. Works well for the rest of life, should do me just fine here.


EDIT TO ADD


Message from Aldo on the official boards.

Article next week on what is going to happen to Yu Jing. Sauce: Koni on the Spanish side of the wall. Or Forum. I'm not really sure. I haven't slept. Can't do writing. String. Words. Together.


Hopefully it isn't more bad news, and I'm glad they will be specifically addressing the issue, even if this is a blog post I would have preferred in line with the announcement. That it comes after the media buzz has me thinking it is probably more bad news but... well, see comment above.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/09 18:42:35


 
   
Made in gr
Thermo-Optical Spekter





Greece

I would argue it is neither here or there, 4chan can be an equal echo chamber since everybody not wanting to hear opinion A goes there to hear opinion B.

My personal opinion is it is a mixed reception the extremely vocal ends are minorities the vast in between are undecided and everybody has an (different) opinion on how it should have been handled, it is definitely the first time CB tried it and while much of the reasoning behind it will be more obvious after the book is released, it is a learning experience for all involved and much feedback is collected from the event.
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Right behind you.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
I would argue it is neither here or there, 4chan can be an equal echo chamber since everybody not wanting to hear opinion A goes there to hear opinion B.

My personal opinion is it is a mixed reception the extremely vocal ends are minorities the vast in between are undecided and everybody has an (different) opinion on how it should have been handled, it is definitely the first time CB tried it and while much of the reasoning behind it will be more obvious after the book is released, it is a learning experience for all involved and much feedback is collected from the event.

It's not the first time CB has "tried it". They have no defense that is worth hearing with regards to this since you would think that the Exrah deletion, the MRRF+SEF shelving, and fricking Ko Dali would have been experiences they would have taken to heart. Hell, the removal of profiles(see: HMG profiles being removed from many drop troopers) and that reaction should have been a good expectation to gauge.

I've said multiple times before that they have a public image problem and things like this are a big part of it. Saying things like "drinking their tears" isn't a Good Thing, 'teasing' that there will be "something that will be hated", etc isn't a Good Thing. The smart thing to have done this time around, rather than talking about how "You need to read the fluff!" to explain their reasoning here? They should have also teased what will be happening later this year for the Imperial Service.

But hey, you know this. You also know that the official forums are an echo chamber that you allow to be very hostile towards opinions that are not part of the groupthink.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Ronin_eX wrote:

EDIT TO ADD


Message from Aldo on the official boards.

Article next week on what is going to happen to Yu Jing. Sauce: Koni on the Spanish side of the wall. Or Forum. I'm not really sure. I haven't slept. Can't do writing. String. Words. Together.


Hopefully it isn't more bad news, and I'm glad they will be specifically addressing the issue, even if this is a blog post I would have preferred in line with the announcement. That it comes after the media buzz has me thinking it is probably more bad news but... well, see comment above.


You can basically rest assured that they didn't expect to need to put up an article. This has happened before, it will happen again.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/09 19:32:27


 
   
Made in us
Combat Jumping Ragik






Beyond the Beltway

Cb needs someone who knows the basics of marketing, and whom the Powers that Be will heed.

A new Aristeia! set announced too. And much of its thunder lost in the din of the YJ fiasco. Or is it a debacle.



 
   
Made in gr
Thermo-Optical Spekter





Greece

@Kanluwen
Not at all, none of your examples hold any ground Exrahs simply did not sell at all, their removal mean nothing really, FRM and Shasvastii is a postponing to hopefully bring at a later date something the community will find cool and exciting, Ko Dali was a character that was overpowered and needed to be removed or drastically changed so drastically (well it was her one skill anyway) that removing her would be the same as changing her, at least they gave her an interesting story in her removal, removing HMGs duh, after the changes in N3 who would want to have troopers designed t be close to the enemy with a weapon that penalises you for been close to the enemy...

Uprising is moving the story forward, much will make more sense after you read the book and it is a first time it was attempted, it is a learning experience for all of us.
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Right behind you.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
@Kanluwen
Not at all, none of your examples hold any ground Exrahs simply did not sell at all, their removal mean nothing really, FRM and Shasvastii is a postponing to hopefully bring at a later date something the community will find cool and exciting, Ko Dali was a character that was overpowered and needed to be removed or drastically changed so drastically (well it was her one skill anyway) that removing her would be the same as changing her, at least they gave her an interesting story in her removal, removing HMGs duh, after the changes in N3 who would want to have troopers designed t be close to the enemy with a weapon that penalises you for been close to the enemy...

You're literally ignoring that I didn't say anything about those specific events but rather the reaction to them. There's a reason why the term "the fanatic peat" exists.

And no, "removing HMGs from airborne troopers" wasn't an across the board thing. Hellcats still have them; Hellcats even got an upgraded profile with them also having an E/Marat.
Paracommandos still feature them as well. I'm sure there's more lurking around but still, fact is that there are still places where that profile exists.

Uprising is moving the story forward, much will make more sense after you read the book and it is a first time it was attempted, it is a learning experience for all of us.

It's not "a first time it was attempted", it's the first time that Corvus Belli attempted it. Other companies have done similar before--Corvus Belli loves to take potshots at GW, yet they seemingly failed to take notice of the pushback that players saw with the Tempestus book?

Simple fact: It's not something where people should be saying "It'll make more sense after you read the book!". People who feel like their army was just invalidated, rightly or wrongly, won't be interested in buying the book. They won't care about the fluff. They're pissed off.
What would have been the smart thing to do was to build this not just as a "Japanese Secessonist Army"(which is lazy on their part; they likely wanted to make it so that JSA remained tied to the Japanese faction) and giving the Japanese State Army and Secessonist Army both a place to exist. One stays loyal to YJ, one goes rogue. Replace the "rogue" elements with Loyalist variants using similar gear but different colors and voila, two armies out of one range.

That's basically all Uprising seems to have done anyways. There's very little "new" from the way it looks. Brawlers, a few characters(the Moon Knight homage), and the Troops+Remotes Link Team ideas that I pitched for Bolts and NCA(and was told by many that "it's OP, it won't happen...yet apparently it's okay for Druze? ) and new ways to "Buy our stuff!" from CB.
   
Made in ca
Hauptmann





 Kanluwen wrote:
It's not "a first time it was attempted", it's the first time that Corvus Belli attempted it. Other companies have done similar before--Corvus Belli loves to take potshots at GW, yet they seemingly failed to take notice of the pushback that players saw with the Tempestus book?

Simple fact: It's not something where people should be saying "It'll make more sense after you read the book!". People who feel like their army was just invalidated, rightly or wrongly, won't be interested in buying the book. They won't care about the fluff. They're pissed off.
What would have been the smart thing to do was to build this not just as a "Japanese Secessonist Army"(which is lazy on their part; they likely wanted to make it so that JSA remained tied to the Japanese faction) and giving the Japanese State Army and Secessonist Army both a place to exist. One stays loyal to YJ, one goes rogue. Replace the "rogue" elements with Loyalist variants using similar gear but different colors and voila, two armies out of one range.

That's basically all Uprising seems to have done anyways. There's very little "new" from the way it looks. Brawlers, a few characters(the Moon Knight homage), and the Troops+Remotes Link Team ideas that I pitched for Bolts and NCA(and was told by many that "it's OP, it won't happen...yet apparently it's okay for Druze? ) and new ways to "Buy our stuff!" from CB.


Bolded for emphasis.

This change has removed over $100 of minis from my Yu Jing force (and no, "you can proxy" them isn't a great compromise because with a huge mini collection as well as mostly playing in a casual home environment I have plenty of models to proxy with already and never needed CB's "okay" to do so in the first place). I've been waiting on Keisotsu resculpts for years. Had they performed a more logical split with the old JSA remaining on as the loyalist force then I likely would have grabbed JSA minis simply to replace some of the aging bits of my collection that saw heavy use (especially bloody Keisotsu).

As it is, the book contains nothing I need. No new profiles for armies I play, no new armies I want to play (even Ikari Company would require more purchases than I want to put in to several different factions to make worthwhile). Regardless of how justified it is in the background, if the book doesn't appeal to me in the first place, it isn't getting bought. I'm not handing CB more money after they basically just invalidated over $100 worth of stuff I had previously bought from them (unless I buy more stuff from them of course).

They've taken me from a position of wanting to give them money to a position of holding back my ongoing gaming bucks. For the first time since the game dropped I am not grabbing their latest book and have very little interest in a large model release that would have otherwise contained a great many new minis that I would have grabbed for my vanilla Yu Jing force.

I'm not livid, I'm not frothing mad, just disappointed and vaguely confused at how they thought this whole thing was a good idea. Perhaps next week's article will help, maybe it wont, I'll wait and see. But if their plan to get people buying in to new armies is to pull the rug out from under players, laugh, and then ask for more money then I really have to question the kind of business acumen they've accrued over the past 13 years. Hopefully their feedback tells them that doing this again will be bad and it will save other factions from having to suffer a similar fate.

 
   
Made in au
Norn Queen






 Kanluwen wrote:
Uprising is moving the story forward, much will make more sense after you read the book and it is a first time it was attempted, it is a learning experience for all of us.

It's not "a first time it was attempted", it's the first time that Corvus Belli attempted it. Other companies have done similar before--Corvus Belli loves to take potshots at GW, yet they seemingly failed to take notice of the pushback that players saw with the Tempestus book?


I read this while not logged in, so quoting because this is really very true.

For example, Wyrd build their whole Malifaux setting on an evolving story, including those with player input. Outside of the ongoing story they dictate, they do worldwide campaigns whose outcomes actually affect the story and recently a campaign where the communities victories 'built' a set of new characters that we actually got rules and models for. At the most recent gencon, they asked the community to vote on a showdown between two popular masters, and the outcome was one of the most popular masters in the game died. Flat out died. A secondary charatcer, who also had in game rules and a model, also died. The fluff itself, masters allegiances to factions are severely shifting, with outright betrayals to their own factions. Some are even on Earth now doing something else.

But in game, nothing has changed. Because removing peoples access to models they've bought and paid for is never a good thing to do. Fluff is great when it adds depth, but never use it to take away what people have paid money for.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/03/09 21:57:49


 
   
Made in nl
Consigned to the Grim Darkness






Svalarheima, MA

Same thing in DARK AGE (a game where the tagline is "Everything dies!") - where even if characters die, they're still completely usable in games for the factions that they were a part of.

Even if only in 'historical' sense!

But yeah, all the minis are still usable.

No Exrah there...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/09 22:03:54


Nil nos tremefacit.
 
   
Made in gr
Thermo-Optical Spekter





Greece

 Kanluwen wrote:

You're literally ignoring that I didn't say anything about those specific events but rather the reaction to them. There's a reason why the term "the fanatic peat" exists.

And no, "removing HMGs from airborne troopers" wasn't an across the board thing. Hellcats still have them; Hellcats even got an upgraded profile with them also having an E/Marat.
Paracommandos still feature them as well. I'm sure there's more lurking around but still, fact is that there are still places where that profile exists.


Oh please stop, you referenced on the events directly and equated them all been the same, as I pointed out to you the events have no connection and the reaction is not similar or relevant, you cannot equate the removal of 4 models who never sold, nobody bought them and were a money sink to the company to a move that advances the storyline and affects a big part of the player base.

HMG do exist in some troop profiles almost nobody takes them though, I am guessing because Spitfire is an easier and more flexible solution than using an AD or infiltrating trooper to lurk just outside your deployment zone to take advantage of the HMG sweet range.

 Kanluwen wrote:

It's not "a first time it was attempted", it's the first time that Corvus Belli attempted it. Other companies have done similar before--Corvus Belli loves to take potshots at GW, yet they seemingly failed to take notice of the pushback that players saw with the Tempestus book?

Simple fact: It's not something where people should be saying "It'll make more sense after you read the book!". People who feel like their army was just invalidated, rightly or wrongly, won't be interested in buying the book. They won't care about the fluff. They're pissed off.
What would have been the smart thing to do was to build this not just as a "Japanese Secessonist Army"(which is lazy on their part; they likely wanted to make it so that JSA remained tied to the Japanese faction) and giving the Japanese State Army and Secessonist Army both a place to exist. One stays loyal to YJ, one goes rogue. Replace the "rogue" elements with Loyalist variants using similar gear but different colors and voila, two armies out of one range.

That's basically all Uprising seems to have done anyways. There's very little "new" from the way it looks. Brawlers, a few characters(the Moon Knight homage), and the Troops+Remotes Link Team ideas that I pitched for Bolts and NCA(and was told by many that "it's OP, it won't happen...yet apparently it's okay for Druze? ) and new ways to "Buy our stuff!" from CB.


I think even the slowest of us would understand that I was referring to CB directly I do not think I need to spell it out letter by letter that I am referring to CB doing it for the first time in a thread specifically for CB and discussing a decision CB made, I do not remember were CB took jabs at GW maybe you have a quote handy? sure everybody can look at what others but no company is the same what GW does does not mean it will be the same to what CB does, different beasts, I am afraid I cannot discuss it more before the book hits the readers but trust me it will make more sense then. You do understand that by the fluff once Japan split there would be no way loyal Japanese troops would remain under Yu Jing, not because these Japanese would not be loyal, but because Yu Jing would not entrust them with a knife, let alone a functioning military formation.

Troops+ remotes is an interesting fireteam combination too bad it is a 1.5 SWC the HRL brawler is a far better choice than the remote in almost all situations, now if it was a pathfinder or a fugazi? (or a sierra) that would indeed be broken


Automatically Appended Next Post:
-Loki- wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
Uprising is moving the story forward, much will make more sense after you read the book and it is a first time it was attempted, it is a learning experience for all of us.

It's not "a first time it was attempted", it's the first time that Corvus Belli attempted it. Other companies have done similar before--Corvus Belli loves to take potshots at GW, yet they seemingly failed to take notice of the pushback that players saw with the Tempestus book?


I read this while not logged in, so quoting because this is really very true.

For example, Wyrd build their whole Malifaux setting on an evolving story, including those with player input. Outside of the ongoing story they dictate, they do worldwide campaigns whose outcomes actually affect the story and recently a campaign where the communities victories 'built' a set of new characters that we actually got rules and models for. At the most recent gencon, they asked the community to vote on a showdown between two popular masters, and the outcome was one of the most popular masters in the game died. Flat out died. A secondary charatcer, who also had in game rules and a model, also died. The fluff itself, masters allegiances to factions are severely shifting, with outright betrayals to their own factions. Some are even on Earth now doing something else.

But in game, nothing has changed. Because removing peoples access to models they've bought and paid for is never a good thing to do. Fluff is great when it adds depth, but never use it to take away what people have paid money for.


Alpharius wrote:Same thing in DARK AGE (a game where the tagline is "Everything dies!") - where even if characters die, they're still completely usable in games for the factions that they were a part of.

Even if only in 'historical' sense!

But yeah, all the minis are still usable.

No Exrah there...


Isn't this really a cowards stance? "Oh yes, we totally changed the fluff and took bold decisions to involve the players and we put out a really popular option at stake" but not really it does not matter because nothing really changed.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/09 22:08:54


 
   
Made in au
Norn Queen






 PsychoticStorm wrote:
Isn't this really a cowards stance? "Oh yes, we totally changed the fluff and took bold decisions to involve the players and we put out a really popular option at stake" but not really it does not matter because nothing really changed.


No, it's a 'we respect that fact that you've paid money for our products, so while we're creating a story that changes, we will still let you use what you bought in the way you intended to use it' stance.

There comes a point where fluff and game rules need to diverge, because they're doing different things.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/09 22:13:07


 
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Right behind you.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:

You're literally ignoring that I didn't say anything about those specific events but rather the reaction to them. There's a reason why the term "the fanatic peat" exists.

And no, "removing HMGs from airborne troopers" wasn't an across the board thing. Hellcats still have them; Hellcats even got an upgraded profile with them also having an E/Marat.
Paracommandos still feature them as well. I'm sure there's more lurking around but still, fact is that there are still places where that profile exists.


Oh please stop, you referenced on the events directly and equated them all been the same, as I pointed out to you the events have no connection and the reaction is not similar or relevant, you cannot equate the removal of 4 models who never sold, nobody bought them and were a money sink to the company to a move that advances the storyline and affects a big part of the player base.

Kanluwen wrote:It's not the first time CB has "tried it". They have no defense that is worth hearing with regards to this since you would think that the Exrah deletion, the MRRF+SEF shelving, and fricking Ko Dali would have been experiences they would have taken to heart. Hell, the removal of profiles(see: HMG profiles being removed from many drop troopers) and that reaction should have been a good expectation to gauge.

Want to try again? No comment on the details surrounding the event, I simply pointed out that they have experience with removing items and the fan reaction related to it.

HMG do exist in some troop profiles almost nobody takes them though, I am guessing because Spitfire is an easier and more flexible solution than using an AD or infiltrating trooper to lurk just outside your deployment zone to take advantage of the HMG sweet range.

Or because the models are either outdated or in a less than stellar Sectorial right now(Para-Commandos) or hard to come by.
I mean, you know that the Hellcat with HMG was discontinued right? It came packed with the Hacker originally who now comes packed with the Boarding Shotgun model.
The Spitfire Hellcat, however, is in Beyond Icestorm.

 Kanluwen wrote:

It's not "a first time it was attempted", it's the first time that Corvus Belli attempted it. Other companies have done similar before--Corvus Belli loves to take potshots at GW, yet they seemingly failed to take notice of the pushback that players saw with the Tempestus book?

Simple fact: It's not something where people should be saying "It'll make more sense after you read the book!". People who feel like their army was just invalidated, rightly or wrongly, won't be interested in buying the book. They won't care about the fluff. They're pissed off.
What would have been the smart thing to do was to build this not just as a "Japanese Secessonist Army"(which is lazy on their part; they likely wanted to make it so that JSA remained tied to the Japanese faction) and giving the Japanese State Army and Secessonist Army both a place to exist. One stays loyal to YJ, one goes rogue. Replace the "rogue" elements with Loyalist variants using similar gear but different colors and voila, two armies out of one range.

That's basically all Uprising seems to have done anyways. There's very little "new" from the way it looks. Brawlers, a few characters(the Moon Knight homage), and the Troops+Remotes Link Team ideas that I pitched for Bolts and NCA(and was told by many that "it's OP, it won't happen...yet apparently it's okay for Druze? ) and new ways to "Buy our stuff!" from CB.


I think even the slowest of us would understand that I was referring to CB directly I do not think I need to spell it out letter by letter that I am referring to CB doing it for the first time in a thread specifically for CB and discussing a decision CB made, I do not remember were CB took jabs at GW maybe you have a quote handy? sure everybody can look at what others but no company is the same what GW does does not mean it will be the same to what CB does, different beasts, I am afraid I cannot discuss it more before the book hits the readers but trust me it will make more sense then. You do understand that by the fluff once Japan split there would be no way loyal Japanese troops would remain under Yu Jing, not because these Japanese would not be loyal, but because Yu Jing would not entrust them with a knife, let alone a functioning military formation.

"Trust me, the book explains it!". Great. When will the lore be available for free to read? Because that's what will be important to people.


Troops+ remotes is an interesting fireteam combination too bad it is a 1.5 SWC the HRL brawler is a far better choice than the remote in almost all situations, now if it was a pathfinder or a fugazi? (or a sierra) that would indeed be broken

It doesn't matter if it's "broken" or not. Simple fact is that, as I've said before, CB has no interest in doing the work when it comes to backdating stuff. I suggested that as a way of adding utility and some flavor to Neoterra and its Bolts--yet it gets stolen for a stupid book full of "NonAligned Armies".


Isn't this really a cowards stance? "Oh yes, we totally changed the fluff and took bold decisions to involve the players and we put out a really popular option at stake" but not really it does not matter because nothing really changed.

"A coward's stance"? Really? Like courage comes into play at all with this decision; simple fact is it's a way to make more money.

I don't fault them for wanting to make money, I will fault them(and you) for such a ridiculous defense of it.
   
Made in gr
Thermo-Optical Spekter





Greece

I do not see it as respecting anybody, saying that you give agency to the players and then do nothing to impact the meta despite the players decision is about that is extremely disrespectful and an attempt to have the pie and eat it.

You cannot create a global event were you announce a world shattering event will happen, involve the community and after its conclusion go on as if nothing changed.

Sure your decision impacted the game here the most popular master died now go on and have fun playing with him as if nothing happened.

That is damned disrespectful to the community.
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Right behind you.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
I do not see it as respecting anybody, saying that you give agency to the players and then do nothing to impact the meta despite the players decision is about that is extremely disrespectful and an attempt to have the pie and eat it.

Sorry, when did we play an event that led to the Japanese rising up against the Yu Jing Empire?


You cannot create a global event were you announce a world shattering event will happen, involve the community and after its conclusion go on as if nothing changed.

Sure your decision impacted the game here the most popular master died now go on and have fun playing with him as if nothing happened.

That is damned disrespectful to the community.

Er, no. "Disrespectful to the community" is doing things like claiming that they package things like they do "to make costs bearable for the players". It's doing things like telling people they're "drinking their tears" or teasing upcoming things as "whinefests".

I can think of way more things that are "disrespectful to the community" than allowing for legacy options to exist.
   
Made in ca
Hauptmann





Alright, so planned obsolescence at the whim of the game developer for potentially hundred of dollars of miniatures is "brave and respectful".

Respecting people's collections and not removing their ability to use miniatures they bought as the things they bought them for is "cowardly and disrespectful".



That is some mighty fine spin you're attempting to put on this, but I think it is pretty easy to see which one of these is good for the consumer and which one screws them over.

For my money, I'd prefer not to encourage companies to inject planned obsolescence in to my war gaming, thanks.

 
   
Made in au
Norn Queen






To stop being so doom and gloom, I can’t wait to get the Brawlers. The Druze sectorial is basically a selection of stuff I loved from QK plus a new cool looking LI and also Hunzakuts because sure why not.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/09 23:48:34


 
   
Made in gr
Thermo-Optical Spekter





Greece

Plays really well too you really need to make most use of the Brawlers though.
   
Made in us
Combat Jumping Ragik






Beyond the Beltway

 Ronin_eX wrote:
...This change has removed over $100 of minis from my Yu Jing force (and no, "you can proxy" them isn't a great compromise because with a huge mini collection as well as mostly playing in a casual home environment I have plenty of models to proxy with already and never needed CB's "okay" to do so in the first place)....
This Yu Jing player, also a WarCor -- I believe he ran the Infinity events at the NOVA Open tournament this past year-- is selling his JSA stuff https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/752148.page I wonder how many others will be selling their JSA or their Yu Jing? That is not an insignificant amount of minis for sale either.

Okay, if we are going positive... I did pre-order the book. I'm sure to like it. I know that LE Brawler looks a fine mini. Expanding to the Druze Bayram is really easy for a QK player. Especially one who has the Pan-O remotes. ( from my ASA)

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/03/10 00:08:50



 
   
Made in au
Norn Queen






Do we know if the Druze list on Army is complete? Seems pretty limited compared to the other three.
   
 
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