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 Apple Peel wrote:

Ice_can wrote:
Oh the idea that someone is going to use a 10 point drone to improve the survivability of a 7 point firewarrior?
We have a new level of strawman logic there.

Kanluwen I have to as are you just violently opposed to fairly costed guardsmen or are you actually believing the insanity your posting?

More just calling everything a strawman. We are bringing up potential modifiers that people are not accounting for. Only bring up the drones. Good grief. What about the sept that adds range. I do so recall someone bringing up Vostroyans. Why can't we bring up all the potential modifiers on each side and stop pretending that every fight happens in the most optimal conditions?
An infantry squad might move up into a Fire Warrior squad's range and not move move move, as they are doing something else. They get shot for a turn. That is going to impact a scenario incredibly.

Firewarriors are a great troop choice, I don't deny that.
I actually play the army though and Kanluwen clearly hasn't even read their codex to understand that drones are not some magical answer, they are seperate units not charictors so die like flies.
Also a pulse accelerator drone has to be bought with a pathfinder unit.
Pathfinders are too expensive and die turn 1 every game, hence your adding a tax to a tax unit, that can be easily killed. Hence why they arn't usually taken.

Also in my maths I gave you the numbers for firewarriors buffed by a cadre fireblade and they were still beaten by lasguns with FRFSRF.

Also firewarriors
Can't move upto 24 inches in a turn
Can't benifit from a cadre outside half range.
Can't shoot after falling back
Can't double fight in the fightphase

The one thing they should be able to do is outshoot guardsmen and they can't do that, because of your undercosted units.

You infantry squad by virtue of being with 30 inches to get shot by the firewarriors are within 6 inches of moving within 24 inches.

The mental gymnastics your using to defend 4ppm is astonishing.

Ice_can wrote:

 Apple Peel wrote:

Ice_can wrote:
Oh the idea that someone is going to use a 10 point drone to improve the survivability of a 7 point firewarrior?
We have a new level of strawman logic there.

Kanluwen I have to as are you just violently opposed to fairly costed guardsmen or are you actually believing the insanity your posting?

More just calling everything a strawman. We are bringing up potential modifiers that people are not accounting for. Only bring up the drones. Good grief. What about the sept that adds range. I do so recall someone bringing up Vostroyans. Why can't we bring up all the potential modifiers on each side and stop pretending that every fight happens in the most optimal conditions?
An infantry squad might move up into a Fire Warrior squad's range and not move move move, as they are doing something else. They get shot for a turn. That is going to impact a scenario incredibly.

Firewarriors are a great troop choice, I don't deny that.
I actually play the army though and Kanluwen clearly hasn't even read their codex to understand that drones are not some magical answer, they are seperate units not charictors so die like flies.
Also a pulse accelerator drone has to be bought with a pathfinder unit.
Pathfinders are too expensive and die turn 1 every game, hence your adding a tax to a tax unit, that can be easily killed. Hence why they arn't usually taken.

Also in my maths I gave you the numbers for firewarriors buffed by a cadre fireblade and they were still beaten by lasguns with FRFSRF.

Also firewarriors
Can't move upto 24 inches in a turn
Can't benifit from a cadre outside half range.
Can't shoot after falling back
Can't double fight in the fightphase

The one thing they should be able to do is outshoot guardsmen and they can't do that, because of your undercosted units.

You infantry squad by virtue of being with 30 inches to get shot by the firewarriors are within 6 inches of moving within 24 inches.

The mental gymnastics your using to defend 4ppm is astonishing.

Ah, you didn’t read very well. They are within the fire warriors’ range because they moved there, for whatever reason, giving the fire warriors an unfettered round of shooting.
I’m not defending 4ppm, I’m defending the idea that units should not be compared based on the most optimal conditions.
You are angry about Fire Warriors not being able to fight twice after consuming an order resource? As if fire warriors want to be fighting. If these guardsmen get into charge range, can’t those fire warriors benefit from For the Greater Good?
As well as they have photon grenades?
There is so much more that needs to be taken into account than getting units into their most optimal ranges, and not doing this makes a flawed deduction.

Ice_can wrote:

Firewarriors are a great troop choice, I don't deny that.
I actually play the army though and Kanluwen clearly hasn't even read their codex to understand that drones are not some magical answer, they are seperate units not charictors so die like flies.

They're "separate units" that dependent upon the type of Drone grant either:
a) An aura of a 6+ Invulnerable Save for the Strike Team or a 5+ Invulnerable Save for the Breacher Teams.(Guardian Drones)
b) A 4+ Invulnerable Save that, when they suffer a Wound then get to roll an additional dice to potentially ignore the Wound.(Shield Drones)

There's also Gun Drones which aren't the cheapest but do bring the whole Savior Protocols thing into play.

It's cute that you assume I haven't read their codex though(let alone that I don't actually play them)!

Also a pulse accelerator drone has to be bought with a pathfinder unit.

I literally stated that. You missed it while trying to justify your interpretation of my statement as "DRONES FIX EVERYTHING"(which wasn't the point: I noticed you ignored the whole bit about Bor'kan and Ethereals. Coolcoolcool!)

Pathfinders are too expensive and die turn 1 every game, hence your adding a tax to a tax unit, that can be easily killed. Hence why they arn't usually taken.

Er no. Pathfinders "aren't usually taken" because Markerlight Drones are cheaper and can bolstered in a cheaper fashion by the Drone Controller wargear.
Pathfinders also, for whatever silly reason, are far outshone by the Firesight Marksman who is a BS3+ Markerlight who gets to be a 2+ save when in Cover thanks to his Stealth Field--and can grant a bit of additional BS to a unit of Sniper Drones that are Rapid Fire 48".

I'd also like to point out that Pathfinders do bring a bit of utility vs the (apparently terrifying) Catachan "charges" thanks to also being able to bring a Grav-Inhibitor Drone that you can park out of LOS which removes D3" of Charge Movement if they try to start a charge within 12" of the Drone(no LOS required!).

Also in my maths I gave you the numbers for firewarriors buffed by a cadre fireblade and they were still beaten by lasguns with FRFSRF.

That's nice. You also immediately then tried to downplay it as the Guardsmen are somehow able to constantly fly across the board and ignore being shot at outside of their effective range.

Also firewarriors
Can't move upto 24 inches in a turn

"Up to". That's the important part to note. Your amazing, flying Guardsmen require the rolls for your initial Advance and then the follow-up Move, Move, Move attempt.

Can't benifit from a cadre outside half range.

Shame you can't modify what "half range" is, eh?

Oh right...you can! Pulse Accelerator Drones are a thing. Just because Pathfinders aren't amazing does not mean that options do not exist.

Can't shoot after falling back

Darkstrider says "Sup".

I mean, you do know that he's a fairly cheap BS2+ HQ that grants the ability for T'au Sept Infantry units within 6" of him to fire normally even if they Fell Back right?
And as a bonus, he gets to pick an enemy unit visible to him and a grant +1 to Wound rolls for a friendly T'au Sept Infantry unit within 6" of him.

Can't double fight in the fightphase

Neither can Guard.
Fix Bayonets is you make a CC attack during the Shooting Phase while you're already within 1" of an enemy unit, meaning you did not Fall Back with that unit.

The one thing they should be able to do is outshoot guardsmen and they can't do that, because of your undercosted units.

What's the qualifier for "outshooting"? Number of shots being landed? Number of shots thrown downrange?
Because it's worth repeating:
10 shots at 30" is only doable by Vostroyans. That's a whole 10 shots that the Guard aren't landing, period, unless they take a weapon team or special weapon with range.

You infantry squad by virtue of being with 30 inches to get shot by the firewarriors are within 6 inches of moving within 24 inches.

Yeah, cool? We get it--you can move 6 inches and be in (unmodified, basic) Lasgun range where you can be pretend Rapid Firing...but also making it so that any potential HWT within is now at a -1 to hit.

Maybe you'd be better served by starting to add a Smart Missile System Turret to your FW squads to add a bit more shootery to the squad.

The mental gymnastics your using to defend 4ppm is astonishing.

And the mental gymnastics used to constantly downplay what Tau can potentially do to extend the range gap is quite impressive as well.

So, since we're all doing gymnastics instead of talking about 40k, I think this thread is done.

Moving on.