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Made in hr
Been Around the Block




It seems that Orks fire their weapons on full auto at every occasion they get. How are they able to manufacture so much ammunition, considering their equipment is all custom made and they seemingly have no standardization.

Are there any descriptions of how Ork workshops and manufacturing in general looks like? Do they have factories with assembly lines or do Orks just manufacture bullets/shells with whatever tools/materials they have at hand?
   
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Agile Revenant Titan






While a lot of people would point to the Ork Gestalt field here I've always thought that was a massive pile of baloney (it affecting physical things like magicing ammunition into existence is based on an in-universe musing of a Tech Magos in Xenology, who also makes a number of other wild suppositions).

I'm not sure on Ork manufacturing. I'd lean towards the latter idea of every Ork being capable of manufacturing munitions from whatever they have at hand. That fits with the idea that they're hard-wired with a certain knowledge about the world, and also fits the idea that they're sort of a self-contained decentralised galactic scale war weapon.

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Keeper of the Holy Orb of Antioch





avoiding the lorax on Crion

Orks are able to cobble together industry, machines, from almost anything. Making ammo from scrap, whatever explosives, and such. Well possible your regular boy can make ammo.

Ammunition manufacturing will be a big ork industry given thr amount they expend.

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Orks are know to *enslave* other races to do their bidding.

Understand Enslaving as threating them as workforce on their society where brute force is all, so most of those races (gretchins included) are often forced to keep building weapons and ammo so the main Ork Waagh can keep figthing.

That's where the ork slavers get in, they have some decent understanding other weaker races can be coerced to *work* as long they are somewhat feed and not beaten often.
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut






There is no mention of ork boyz making ammo nor of ork gestalt making ammo as far as I know.
There are however two kinds of ork workshops mentioned in the fluff.

- The fun and weird mek shops, using grots and snotling pets who seem to love their job and are controlled by Runtherds.
- Slave factories using enslaved races including humans.

The slaver part is rarely used in modern GW's promotion material or in the modern codexes but its very much alive in the novels, and it is stuff of nightmares.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/03/12 17:20:37


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They can also loot it from basically anyone.

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The Ork Waaagh! effect can not just create bullets if a gun doesn't have any. What it CAN do is make it so almost any bullet within reason that's loaded into the gun will fire properly, regardless of its gauge. Thus they can loot the vast majority of solid slug ammo, as well as manufacture ammo at breakneck speed with little to no regard for QC, and have little worry that the bullets won't fire when used.
   
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IIRC the bit about orks psychically creating ammo was in the 3rd edition codex, but I don't have it in front of me so I wouldn't bet the farm on it. It didn't say that all ork ammo was psychically generated, but rather IIRC that in the midst of battle if the ork gestalt psychic field was strong enough there had been instances of orks continuing to fire weapons not realizing they were empty. (If I'm remembering that bit correctly I wouldn't say that the ork was psychically creating physical ammunition, but rather that he believed he was shooting and blasts of psychic energy were emanating from the end of his weapon.)

I don't know how much credit I would put into a single source, and I might be remembering the whole thing wrong.


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https://jonathanturley.org/2011/01/10/gao-u-s-has-fired-250000-rounds-for-every-insurgent-killed/

GAO: U.S. Has Fired 250,000 Rounds For Every Insurgent Killed

US forces have fired so many bullets in Iraq and Afghanistan – an estimated 250,000 for every insurgent killed – that American ammunition-makers cannot keep up with demand.

The General Accounting Office (GAO) reports that our forces are now using 1.8 billion rounds of small-arms ammunition a year — a level of use that has more than doubled in five years. The report states:

“The Department of Defense’s increased requirements for small- and medium-calibre ammunitions have largely been driven by increased weapons training requirements, dictated by the army’s transformation to a more self-sustaining and lethal force – which was accelerated after the attacks of 11 September, 2001 – and by the deployment of forces to conduct recent US military actions in Afghanistan and Iraq.”

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grots and human slaves, lots and lots and lots of them

 
   
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They use a lot of grot and slave labour.
Think one of the Cain novels, theres a huge populous of humie slaves. I think thats why there such terrible shots.
Humie in factory, "they dont even realize that these are just tubes full of gun powder.
   
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Broly wrote:
It seems that Orks fire their weapons on full auto at every occasion they get. How are they able to manufacture so much ammunition, considering their equipment is all custom made and they seemingly have no standardization.

Are there any descriptions of how Ork workshops and manufacturing in general looks like? Do they have factories with assembly lines or do Orks just manufacture bullets/shells with whatever tools/materials they have at hand?


In the Grim Darkness that is 40K only the Orks have a proper logistics tail.

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Everything "works" for Orks because they believe it. If they slap a mag into their gun and expect to never have to reload...the gun will just work that way. If they believe shoving a fork into a gun barrel will have the same effect as a bullet...it will. If they believe stolen ammunition will work in the gun they shove it into...you get the idea. They will it, their "tech" does it.

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They don't bother counting, they believe there is more ammo in the clip and through the miracle of blind faith the gun keeps firing.

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Remember that we humans once developed a blunderbuss that could be loaded with powder and then have pretty much anything shoved into the barrel (Damaged bullets, stones, gravel, whatever) to fire.

So just take that sort of concept and extrapolate it out to shell casings and I reckon that's how Orks manage their ammo, it's so crude it can be mass produced by grots or slaves with little effort.

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Maybe they use a different method of propulsion from our smokeless powder. Perhaps a shoota has some sort of power source, which ejects the slug at high speed, meaning the slug can be just that, an easy to make round weight.


How do space marines make all their ammo? We do know what a bolter round is, its a micro rocket with stabilizers and an explosive tip. It would cost hundreds of thousands of dollars per bullet.

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 Exergy wrote:



How do space marines make all their ammo? We do know what a bolter round is, its a micro rocket with stabilizers and an explosive tip. It would cost hundreds of thousands of dollars per bullet.


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Halandri

Broly wrote:
It seems that Orks fire their weapons on full auto at every occasion they get. How are they able to manufacture so much ammunition, considering their equipment is all custom made and they seemingly have no standardization.

Are there any descriptions of how Ork workshops and manufacturing in general looks like? Do they have factories with assembly lines or do Orks just manufacture bullets/shells with whatever tools/materials they have at hand?
Orks enslave whatever doesn't fight. They have captured manufactorums pumping out ammunitions, tanks and other war supplies under the whip of the runterds.

Also, Orks are green. They probably leave battlefields cleaner than they found them after the scavenging is done!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/14 08:44:58


 
   
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South Africa

Im sure they just get Gretchin to make their ammo. or the git hit with a choppa in the mouth hole

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You have to remember that the term "bullets" is kind of malleable to a race that has guns that literally fire scrap metal. To "us" a bullet is a refined piece of modern engineering. It requires chemistry, machining, careful production, etc. To an Ork, anything that can go fast enough, "boom" loud enough, or just generally create chaos and damage is a "bullet" ...

So on top of what everyone else mentioned, they also have a little more flexibility in their choice of projectiles.

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One of the ork tribes on Armageddon - The Black Slayers I think - were notable because they simply killed everyone. Taking slaves is standard ork procedure.

 
   
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 TedNugent wrote:
https://jonathanturley.org/2011/01/10/gao-u-s-has-fired-250000-rounds-for-every-insurgent-killed/

GAO: U.S. Has Fired 250,000 Rounds For Every Insurgent Killed

US forces have fired so many bullets in Iraq and Afghanistan – an estimated 250,000 for every insurgent killed – that American ammunition-makers cannot keep up with demand.

The General Accounting Office (GAO) reports that our forces are now using 1.8 billion rounds of small-arms ammunition a year — a level of use that has more than doubled in five years. The report states:

“The Department of Defense’s increased requirements for small- and medium-calibre ammunitions have largely been driven by increased weapons training requirements, dictated by the army’s transformation to a more self-sustaining and lethal force – which was accelerated after the attacks of 11 September, 2001 – and by the deployment of forces to conduct recent US military actions in Afghanistan and Iraq.”


Another part to that is it's a bit like a unit's budget. A unit has to spend their allotted amount of money or they will be allocated less money during the next fiscal cycle. The less munitions used or reported as used the less they can order.

I doubt Orks do it that way. I'm sure they just have slaves make it and loot everything. The IoM has guns and ammo basically at every stop. If the Orks do well, the get a chunk of resupply. Sluggga boys use a bit less ammunition and I would imagine are more numerous. Which just means a more cost effective way to score the goods for Da WAAAGH.

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Regular Dakkanaut




In my mind, the 'where do bullets come from' for Orks follows the progression of:

1: Gretchin make them. They may need to be shown how by a Mek or overseen by a Runtherd, but doing that kind of essential menial labor is what Grots are for.

2: Once Grots have made enough bullets, you can use those bullets to kill other Orks so you can take their bullets. Alternately, the fight you start might be fun enough that other Orks want to join you, and they'll bring more bullets with them. Worst case scenario, you can always loot bullets from the battlefield you created.

3: Once you get big enough, you can start acquiring bullets from non-Orks - via mercenary bartering, piracy, extortion or wholesale enslavement.

As for how Orks deal with the inevitable unreliability of their ammo due to sketchy sources -

A: Ork physiology is hardy enough that misfires and other dangerous failures are annoyances rather than deadly

B: Ork psychology is such that ineffective ammo is acceptable as long as it's entertaining. Additionally, running out of ammo is merely an excuse to start bashing heads.

Ork culture has a self-assembling logistics train with psychology and biology built in to support it. All of that should be taken into account before any sort of 'gestalt psychic field' is used as an explanation for where bullets come from. Ork belief as a reality-altering force should only be applied to the biggest Waaagh!s, and even then should only function as a 'probability lubricant' - making the natural chaos of Orks function in their favor instead of tearing them apart.
   
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theocracity wrote:
Ork belief as a reality-altering force should only be applied to the biggest Waaagh!s, and even then should only function as a 'probability lubricant' -


'Probability lubricant' is probably the single best descriptor for the Ork's gestalt psychic field I've ever heard. Brilliant

As far as I'm concerned, it won't magic bullets out of thin air, but it will grease the wheels of probability. Say you're firing a gun with a dodgy cartridge. There's a possibility that that cartridge will get jammed, causing a misfire. If an Ork is firing it, that possibility is less than it would be if a non-Ork was firing it thanks to the gestalt field (if there are enough Orks around to generate one).

I like that because it doesn't reduce the Ork's innate mechanical genius to 'they just want it to happen so it happens because magic', which is so much less interesting than 'these creatures have an innate understanding of technology hard-coded into them, so they can instinctively construct technologies that equal or in some cases surpass those of their competitors'.

Much cooler

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/14 14:01:21


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Also my Rogue Trader-esque spaceport factions http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/709686.page

Oh, and I've come up with a semi-expanded Shadow War idea and need some feedback! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/726439.page

Lastly I contribute to a blog too! http://objectivesecured.blogspot.co.uk/ Check it out! It's not just me  
   
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 Ynneadwraith wrote:
theocracity wrote:
Ork belief as a reality-altering force should only be applied to the biggest Waaagh!s, and even then should only function as a 'probability lubricant' -


'Probability lubricant' is probably the single best descriptor for the Ork's gestalt psychic field I've ever heard. Brilliant


Haha, thanks! It's not a concept that I'm a big fan of - especially in the way it gets exaggerated - but if it has to exist, I prefer to tie it into one of my favorite characteristics of Orks - their ability to get away with improbably risky behavior.

As far as I'm concerned, it won't magic bullets out of thin air, but it will grease the wheels of probability. Say you're firing a gun with a dodgy cartridge. There's a possibility that that cartridge will get jammed, causing a misfire. If an Ork is firing it, that possibility is less than it would be if a non-Ork was firing it thanks to the gestalt field (if there are enough Orks around to generate one).


That's definitely the limit of how that mechanic works in my mind. I prefer to think that the misfires still happen, but the differences in Ork biology and psychology means they aren't injured by catastrophic failures, are more capable of creating hazardously jury-rigged solutions to mitigate them, and aren't bothered by them when it happens regardless (because it made noise, gives an excuse to get stuck in, or they just grab another gun). That helps explain why Ork technology works in their hands even if there aren't a lot of Orks around (a rare situation, I know).

I like that because it doesn't reduce the Ork's innate mechanical genius to 'they just want it to happen so it happens because magic', which is so much less interesting than 'these creatures have an innate understanding of technology hard-coded into them, so they can instinctively construct technologies that equal or in some cases surpass those of their competitors'.

Much cooler


Same!
   
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 Ynneadwraith wrote:
theocracity wrote:
Ork belief as a reality-altering force should only be applied to the biggest Waaagh!s, and even then should only function as a 'probability lubricant' -


'Probability lubricant' is probably the single best descriptor for the Ork's gestalt psychic field I've ever heard. Brilliant

As far as I'm concerned, it won't magic bullets out of thin air, but it will grease the wheels of probability. Say you're firing a gun with a dodgy cartridge. There's a possibility that that cartridge will get jammed, causing a misfire. If an Ork is firing it, that possibility is less than it would be if a non-Ork was firing it thanks to the gestalt field (if there are enough Orks around to generate one).

I like that because it doesn't reduce the Ork's innate mechanical genius to 'they just want it to happen so it happens because magic', which is so much less interesting than 'these creatures have an innate understanding of technology hard-coded into them, so they can instinctively construct technologies that equal or in some cases surpass those of their competitors'.

Much cooler

Exactly. Another example is that if a human jammed a bolter shell into an oversized stubbed and pulled the trigger, either nothing would happen or the gun would explode. If an ork loads a bolter shell into a shoota and presses the trigger the bolter shot will probably fire because to the orks, that's what happens when you put a bullet in a gun and pull the trigger, despite the weapon being ramshackle and the ammunition being mismatched.

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There was a bit in I believe the 4th edition codex (it might have been a different codex)about a particularly deadly shooting ork, imperium kills him and they open the "gun" and it is just a pretty box with some stuff in it and should not possibly work.

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 G00fySmiley wrote:
There was a bit in I believe the 4th edition codex (it might have been a different codex)about a particularly deadly shooting ork, imperium kills him and they open the "gun" and it is just a pretty box with some stuff in it and should not possibly work.


I usually put that down to the fact that the Imperium barely understand how their technology works, let alone the technology of another race.

Fits my world view better

Check out may pan-Eldar projects http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/702683.page

Also my Rogue Trader-esque spaceport factions http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/709686.page

Oh, and I've come up with a semi-expanded Shadow War idea and need some feedback! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/726439.page

Lastly I contribute to a blog too! http://objectivesecured.blogspot.co.uk/ Check it out! It's not just me  
   
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Crescent City Fl..

 Ynneadwraith wrote:
 G00fySmiley wrote:
There was a bit in I believe the 4th edition codex (it might have been a different codex)about a particularly deadly shooting ork, imperium kills him and they open the "gun" and it is just a pretty box with some stuff in it and should not possibly work.


I usually put that down to the fact that the Imperium barely understand how their technology works, let alone the technology of another race.

Fits my world view better


Absolutely agree with you.

Sigh, Yet another doomed attempt by man to bridge the gap between the material and spiritual worlds 
   
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Midwest USA

 Exergy wrote:
Maybe they use a different method of propulsion from our smokeless powder. Perhaps a shoota has some sort of power source, which ejects the slug at high speed, meaning the slug can be just that, an easy to make round weight.
I am reminded of the Portal 2 videos, where Cave Johnson is narrating an advertisement for the Aperture Science turrets. Something about them actually being spring loaded and launching the entire bullet, rather than firing the bullet in a traditional sense, some line about so much percentage more bullet per bullet fired?
   
 
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