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i was watching somebody playing with imperial gaurd and he had some tank thing that fired either a shell or template or flame which make models automatically fall back??  do you know what i am talking about??  where in the codex would i verify this??

 

is such a thing possible??  i meen would you automatically fall back??  what if your feerless?? that meens you never fall back. if you could let me know where i can verify this,, ie codex page etc.

Griffon with infernus shells (Or whatever it's called). It's from one of the Imperial Armor books.

i looked that up, thanks it make troops automatically fall back but i take it that does not affect feerless troops as they never fall back/

The only clear cut case I can think of where a fearless unit must fallback is a special power of the C'tan Deceiver. I could be wrong on that though.

- BT

I don't have the book, but IIRC, Fearless troops are also supposed to fallback, the reason given that being fearless does not help you avoid being set on fire.

yeah but where does it say that feerless troops fall bak?? if it does not spesificly say it apples to feerless troops than surely they dont as being feerles meens you dont fall back irrespective of what they are being shot at or flamed or ordananced by. unless a power like the ctan for example says it affect feerless troops than i would assume we go by the rule book that feerless troops dont fall back

also bloody t the decievers power dread only works on units with a leadership, it does not affect feerless models.

ok official then.
the RULEBOOK says "Feerless troops NEVER have to fall back and are assumed to automatickly pass any morale test they are requirted to take.

I don't have the book, but IIRC, Fearless troops are also supposed to fallback, the reason given that being fearless does not help you avoid being set on fire

A fluff argument!? Ahh! The power of Christ compels you!

Posted By Bookwrack on 06/03/2006 3:12 AM
 I don't have the book, but IIRC, Fearless troops are also supposed to fallback, the reason given that being fearless does not help you avoid being set on fire.

interesting But . . . .  . .um where exactly does it give that reason??  nobody said it makes you avoid being set on fire its just that they dont fall back even if on fire cos they be feerless.  thats the whhole point of feerless troops no matter what happens to them they never fall back.

It's a fluff argument, Beef. It doesn't mean anything.

ok so the IG guy was chatting Sh?t then, wait till i see him trying to blag another hapless victim.

Before you jump the guy and kick his arse in a back alley, first check the IA book for the actual rule.
Seeing as how no one has posted the actual IA rule yet, it is entirely possible that the IA rule specifically overrides fearless and makes them fall back anyway.

Don't jump to conclusions, it'll only land you in trouble.

no i cheched the IA rule it just says it make models automatically fall back, that was the guys argument, but the main rule book says feerless troops dont fall back as they Never fall back.

The argument, beef, would be that the fallback move required by the Infernus shells is NOT a morale-based move.

Fortunately, IA is all opponent's-consent stuff.

Fearless models NEVER fall back. Never.

If they fail a leadership test that would normally make a model fall back, a Fearless model will not.

Posted By bigchris1313 on 06/03/2006 6:43 PM

I don't have the book, but IIRC, Fearless troops are also supposed to fallback, the reason given that being fearless does not help you avoid being set on fire

A fluff argument!? Ahh! The power of Christ compels you!

Actually, it wasn't a fluff arguement.  I'm working off of the one time I glanced at a Red Shirt's copy a long while back, but I thought I remembered mention being made that even Fearless units will fall back, because of all the fire and stuff.  So it was rule, and fluff.

Gabe,

Fearless models NEVER fall back. Never.

If they fail a leadership test that would normally make a model fall back, a Fearless model will not.
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Unless the Deciever makes them fall back your perhaps ment to say?

Actually, it wasn't a fluff arguement. I'm working off of the one time I glanced at a Red Shirt's copy a long while back, but I thought I remembered mention being made that even Fearless units will fall back, because of all the fire and stuff. So it was rule, and fluff.

Oh my. Sorry about that, old sport. I thought you were just pulling that "because they're on fire bit" out of your ass.

My apologies.

Posted By BloodyT on 06/02/2006 11:03 PM
The only clear cut case I can think of where a fearless unit must fallback is a special power of the C'tan Deceiver. I could be wrong on that though.

- BT

In the Necron FAQ it was stated that fearless models are no longer effected by this power

From IA update 2005 which is the most recent unless the griffon is also in IA 4

"An infernus shell has the same effect as a high explosive shell, except any infantry unit that is hit must make an immediate Fall Back move to avoid the fire now burning."

So fearless troops would be fine as they never fall back. Also, bikes/calvary/jump infantry are not effected by the fall back move as it says "infantry unit".

"Fortunately, IA is all opponent's-consent stuff."

*Slaps Janthkin*

No it's not!

IA stuff is not opponent's consent. It is completely legal and does not require permission unless the rules specifically mention that they are optional (which none in IA1, 2 or 3 do as far as I can recall). How many times must we go over this...

BYE

ok so its not consent but feerless troops never fall back to it does not affect them, thanks for reminding me that cavalry, bikes etc dont fall back, i forgot that.

"Fortunately, IA is all opponent's-consent stuff."

*Slaps Janthkin*

No it's not!

IA stuff is not opponent's consent. It is completely legal and does not require permission unless the rules specifically mention that they are optional (which none in IA1, 2 or 3 do as far as I can recall). How many times must we go over this...

Apparently, at least once more - I haven't seen this argument previously.

On what grounds do we assume that the IA stuff is anything approximating "legal"? Do they say they are in the books someplace?

Most tournaments I've seen lately don't allow IA. Others (Adpeticon) do.

And in any case, the Infernus shells rank right up there with Siren. I still feel bad that we included them at Adepticon for the Team Tournament - on turn 1, they can utterly destroy an opponent, and without actually needing to cause a wound.

Janthkin,

They are rules for the game of Warhammer 40,000, put out by the company that makes the game. Unless the books say the rules are optional, then they aren't.

More importantly, the preface for the earlier IA books makes it pretty clear that they are only considered optional as any of the rules in 40k. Meaning, you can always choose to use any rules you want if you and your opponent agree, but the IA books are rules for 40k just like anything else.

Of course tournaments always have the choice to allow or disallow any rules they want. This fact doesn't change the status of IA rules, except perhaps in the popular consciousness; many people seem to make the simple assumption that because 'X' tournament doesn't allow IA rules, they must be "optional" in some way.

No they're optional. I dont see chapter approved written on any of them.......nor are they part of the core item like a codex.

 

Not that I wouldnt play against them, but still I dont see them as "mandatory" gaming item.   

No they're optional. I dont see chapter approved written on any of them.......nor are they part of the core item like a codex.

But why do you call a codex a "core" item? You are making distinctions that don't exist. Codexes are a gaming supplement for Warhammer 40,000 just like the Imperial Armor books.

So why would they not be "official"? The books themselves say they are just as official as any other 40k rule so I don't see any valid reason not to consider them such.

No they're optional.

No they're not. The books themselves even state quite clearly that they are official rules.

BYE

But why do you call a codex a "core" item? You are making distinctions that don't exist. Codexes are a gaming supplement for Warhammer 40,000 just like the Imperial Armor books.

So why would they not be "official"? The books themselves say they are just as official as any other 40k rule so I don't see any valid reason not to consider them such.

No they're not. The books themselves even state quite clearly that they are official rules

IF I go to GW's own online store, are they there? No. If I go to GW's own brick and mortor, are any ofteh products there?

No.

Books can state all they want, but fact is, they arent part of the core products. Their great items, but there's nothing there to say I have to play against any of those items. I dont see motris dread in a space marine book, northe bigger creatures in the tyranid book either.



*shrug* Not that I've disallowed anything ever, actually the only thing I'd say no to is the super monstrous creatures, superheavy tanks and flyers......

 No. If I go to GW's own brick and mortor, are any ofteh products there?

No.

Just for the record, last time I was down at the Glenn Burnie Battle Bunker, they had the IA books

Just for the record, last time I was down at the Glenn Burnie Battle Bunker, they had the IA books

Never seen them at any of the GW stores around me.....*shrug*