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With GW hinting at a release of a generals handbook for 8th edition, there may be a nice little bonus to having all the armies in one book. (Besides the hopeful balancing of the game) and its that we might be seeing significantly less "that guy" moments. I hear a lot of problems about people who bring unpainted mini's and no codex spouting questionable rules. Do you think this will adress the problem? Atleast untill they bring out codexes with formations and extra units.

Also, how many of us with the material avaliable will commit to mind other armies rules? I'll certainly try my best to get my head around other armies.

You know, I've never come across your "That Guy".
The guys who bring in the oddball are homebrewers are so proud of them they've made their own codex to boot and they're usually in better condition than mine...

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
You know, I've never come across your "That Guy".
The guys who bring in the oddball are homebrewers are so proud of them they've made their own codex to boot and they're usually in better condition than mine...

Yeah the homebrewers werent much of a problem, although I wasn't too pleased to hear "just you wait to see my warlord in CC" if I ever accepted a game with them. Though more often than not homebrewers make something along the lines of a kroot codex, with some fluffy warlord traits and formations to boot. Fluffy and harmless.

Why would a new edition change people's attitudes?

 JNAProductions wrote:
Why would a new edition change people's attitudes?

Not a change in attitudes, but the fact that everyone has everyones codex would most people be less inclined to I guess "exaggerate" the rules?

To me, "That Guy" has always been the type who found some horribly convoluted and broken rule combo in the game and brags about how powerful his army is because of this, then throw a tamper tantrum when someone actually beats him. Those kinds of people will exist because they're just a fixture of gaming in general (the absolute logical conclusion of someone taking the mentality that "winning is the objective of any game" to it's extreme).

However, those people that tend to lie about their own rules will also still exist, as very rare is someone who use an ambiguous wording in the codex/rulebook to gain an advantage. While it could theoretically allow you to look up his rules easier when there's only really a handful of Handbooks instead of three dozen codexes, they can still play an army that's not of the same "Grand Alliance" as you and just flub his way through it. It's gonna get harder for them, but not that much.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Why would a new edition change people's attitudes?

This it doesn't.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
To me, "That Guy" has always been the type who found some horribly convoluted and broken rule combo in the game and brags about how powerful his army is because of this, then throw a tamper tantrum when someone actually beats him. Those kinds of people will exist because they're just a fixture of gaming in general (the absolute logical conclusion of someone taking the mentality that "winning is the objective of any game" to it's extreme).

Nope they will just sell their unpainted army for a premium second hands price in order to buy and never paint the new cheese. If edition changes killed off those guys then we should have non of those guys who where in the game for longer than a few years this is clearly not the case.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Phil will probably get to implement his ideas in the 8th eldar codexes. Just imagine how nasty they could be when everyone only moves 4 or 8 in a turn, except you guess it eldar who will still be moving at their regular speed :_P

So who knows they might not even have to sell off their army

 oldzoggy wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
Why would a new edition change people's attitudes?

This it doesn't.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
To me, "That Guy" has always been the type who found some horribly convoluted and broken rule combo in the game and brags about how powerful his army is because of this, then throw a tamper tantrum when someone actually beats him. Those kinds of people will exist because they're just a fixture of gaming in general (the absolute logical conclusion of someone taking the mentality that "winning is the objective of any game" to it's extreme).

Nope they will just sell their unpainted army for a premium second hands price in order to buy and never paint the new cheese. If edition changes killed off those guys then we should have non of those guys who where in the game for longer than a few years this is clearly not the case.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Phil will probably get to implement his ideas in the 8th eldar codexes. Just imagine how nasty they could be when everyone only moves 4 or 8 in a turn, except you guess it eldar who will still be moving at their regular speed :_P

So who knows they might not even have to sell off their army

Yeah but they nerfed the whole "run and shoot" aspect, as well as D and scatter lasers seemingly biting the dust. Movement is just indicative of eldar being agile, dark eldar and tyranids have the same movement and they arent considered loved in 7th ed. Things are looking more balanced.

Reavas wrote:

 oldzoggy wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
Why would a new edition change people's attitudes?

This it doesn't.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
To me, "That Guy" has always been the type who found some horribly convoluted and broken rule combo in the game and brags about how powerful his army is because of this, then throw a tamper tantrum when someone actually beats him. Those kinds of people will exist because they're just a fixture of gaming in general (the absolute logical conclusion of someone taking the mentality that "winning is the objective of any game" to it's extreme).

Nope they will just sell their unpainted army for a premium second hands price in order to buy and never paint the new cheese. If edition changes killed off those guys then we should have non of those guys who where in the game for longer than a few years this is clearly not the case.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Phil will probably get to implement his ideas in the 8th eldar codexes. Just imagine how nasty they could be when everyone only moves 4 or 8 in a turn, except you guess it eldar who will still be moving at their regular speed :_P

So who knows they might not even have to sell off their army

Yeah but they nerfed the whole "run and shoot" aspect, as well as D and scatter lasers seemingly biting the dust. Movement is just indicative of eldar being agile, dark eldar and tyranids have the same movement and they arent considered loved in 7th ed. Things are looking more balanced.

The "leaked" rules for StrD and scatter lasers is just the rules for Shadow War: Armageddon, we don't know if those are the rules for 8ed.

 CrownAxe wrote:

Reavas wrote:

 oldzoggy wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
Why would a new edition change people's attitudes?

This it doesn't.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
To me, "That Guy" has always been the type who found some horribly convoluted and broken rule combo in the game and brags about how powerful his army is because of this, then throw a tamper tantrum when someone actually beats him. Those kinds of people will exist because they're just a fixture of gaming in general (the absolute logical conclusion of someone taking the mentality that "winning is the objective of any game" to it's extreme).

Nope they will just sell their unpainted army for a premium second hands price in order to buy and never paint the new cheese. If edition changes killed off those guys then we should have non of those guys who where in the game for longer than a few years this is clearly not the case.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Phil will probably get to implement his ideas in the 8th eldar codexes. Just imagine how nasty they could be when everyone only moves 4 or 8 in a turn, except you guess it eldar who will still be moving at their regular speed :_P

So who knows they might not even have to sell off their army

Yeah but they nerfed the whole "run and shoot" aspect, as well as D and scatter lasers seemingly biting the dust. Movement is just indicative of eldar being agile, dark eldar and tyranids have the same movement and they arent considered loved in 7th ed. Things are looking more balanced.

The "leaked" rules for StrD and scatter lasers is just the rules for Shadow War: Armageddon, we don't know if those are the rules for 8ed.

We also don't know that eldar are moving 5 or 6 yet, however would it surprise you if they did? And would it surprise you if D and scatter lasers were nerfed? No, it wouldnt. They look like solid weapons and not incredibly overpowered. And we still don't know the price of said weapons anyway, they could be relativly cheaper in 8th. But it wouldnt surprise me if they got rid of the clunky D system in favour of just D6 wounds/HP. GW seems to know what they are doing atm.

have you seen the craftworld and harlequin eldar shadowspire rules, phil's idea of a fun kill team ( in the regular kill team rules ) or even the ynari rules I would hardly call any of those balanced
It isn't str d thats the issue with them its their off the scale movement shnanigans combined with their general high dmg output and their surprising durability.

 oldzoggy wrote:
have you seen the craftworld and harlequin eldar shadowspire rules, phil's idea of a fun kill team ( in the regular kill team rules ) or even the ynari rules I would hardly call any of those balanced
It isn't str d thats the issue with them its their off the scale movement shnanigans combined with their general high dmg output and their surprising durability.

If we take into account the new rules splinter pistols, they give scatter lasers a run for their money, scatter lacks armour mod while splinter wounds on 4's and -2 mod while being considerably cheaper. With more cheap and avaliable weapons getting armour mods and scatter possibly getting less shots I can see a massive shift in some of the meta

Depends if run/shoot phase stays a thing.
If the movement stat comes out and run becomes a thing of the past then yes I'd be suprised by the Eldar keeping a regular Infantry move stat.
If it hangs about then no.
Eldar movement range isn't their strength, their strength is the versitility of their move range. Move 6" then psychic phase then you have the option of moving closer before shooting or shooting then diving into cover. That gives you a lot of options.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Depends if run/shoot phase stays a thing.
If the movement stat comes out and run becomes a thing of the past then yes I'd be suprised by the Eldar keeping a regular Infantry move stat.
If it hangs about then no.
Eldar movement range isn't their strength, their strength is the versitility of their move range. Move 6" then psychic phase then you have the option of moving closer before shooting or shooting then diving into cover. That gives you a lot of options.

This is why I hope they keep the SWA version, you still have that versatility but it is not game breaking.

For those who havn't read.

Battle Focus: If a fighter with this rule
does not move in the movement
phase, they may choose to make
a normal move immediately after
firing in the shooting phase. This
may not be a run or charge move.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Reavas wrote:


This is why I hope they keep the SWA version, you still have that versatility but it is not game breaking.

For those who havn't read.

Battle Focus: If a fighter with this rule
does not move in the movement
phase, they may choose to make
a normal move immediately after
firing in the shooting phase. This
may not be a run or charge move.

Jup but instead they get the ability to shoot around corners with heavy weapons, weapon platforms can't be shot at have to be placed 2" near the one firing it and you draw line of sight from the platform.
The ability to move after firing a heavy weapon. Battle focus does not prevent this.
I 5 -> only failing falling tests on a 6 and making jumping across gaps a piece of cake
M5 -> moving 10 when the rest of the game moves 8
Swooping hawk wings on a special op -> Jump pack move in a game where it is quite rare.

I would say that this are enough movement shenanigans to compensate it.


we are getting off topic silly me for mentioning eldar, power hungy players do not need eldar to build their army.
They do just need the next new thing that is dubiously placed on the power curve and a new spray can of white or black paint.

 oldzoggy wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Reavas wrote:


This is why I hope they keep the SWA version, you still have that versatility but it is not game breaking.

For those who havn't read.

Battle Focus: If a fighter with this rule
does not move in the movement
phase, they may choose to make
a normal move immediately after
firing in the shooting phase. This
may not be a run or charge move.

Jup but instead they get the ability to shoot around corners with heavy weapons, weapon platforms can't be shot at have to be placed 2" near the one firing it and you draw line of sight from the platform.
The ability to move after firing a heavy weapon. Battle focus does not prevent this.
I 5 -> only failing falling tests on a 6 and making jumping across gaps a piece of cake
M5 -> moving 10 when the rest of the game moves 8
Swooping hawk wings on a special op -> Jump pack move in a game where it is quite rare.

I would say that this are enough movement shenanigans to compensate it.


we are getting off topic silly me for mentioning eldar, power hungy players do not need eldar to build their army.
They do just need the next new thing that is dubiously placed on the power curve and a new spray can of white or black paint.

Yeah but hopefully there wont be as big of a bell curve with power now that they are releasing all the army rules in one generals handbook. Power creep is non-existant when you bring out everything at the same time. So will we see "that guy"? Probably, I imagine there will be spammable units that really hurt. But I doubt we will see anything as bad as scatterbike spam with obsec. And if sigmar is where they are drawing inspiration GMC's are going to be more managable.

Im just happy I get a book with all the info I need on my opponents army. Meaning I no longer have to ask for their codex if they seem unsure about a rule. Thats mainly what the post is about, the fact that we may see less of "that guy" not only bringing spammable units but there will be much fewer rules disputes and awkward tantrums if you question his knowledge of the rules.

Unless I'm seriously missing something with the GH for AoS, it doesn't contain the rules for different armies... It contains the points cost for all available things currently and the traits & artifacts for each of the four grand alliances... But no rules for the armies...

The Grand Alliance books have all of the rules for all of the units in them, but then I don't think 40k is going to have Grand Alliances in them so you'll need more than just the GH for the units rules... Unless I'm mistaken

If 8th ed has a generals handbook and it contains all the rule, I'm picturing something akin to this:


Although I would be sad even if it was equivalent to the 5th or 6th ed rule books in size.

If someone wants to rely solely on Battlescribe for all there rules and get things wrong (usually to their advantage) then they will continue to do so until confronted about it, regardless of edition.

 kirotheavenger wrote:
If 8th ed has a generals handbook and it contains all the rule, I'm picturing something akin to this:


Although I would be sad even if it was equivalent to the 5th or 6th ed rule books in size.

The sad part is if you stacked all the codexes, supplements, dataslates, expansions, and rulebook together, you'd actually get a pile about that high. I wish I was joking about this.

Honestly with 8th and a 40k GHB it will bring a lot of balance to the game.

- Formations getting points will be huge, because currently every chud has a riptide wing and thinks they are a tactical genius.

- Requisition points solves summoning and numerous other issues

- The rule of one would shut down the psychic stupidity the game currently is in

- Random turn seems rough at first but it makes you think more about your moves and makes you more careful, in AoS you'll see a player that is on the ropes able to come back because of it.

- A living rulebook. 40k getting an app with all the units will be a god send, and GW can update rules and points every 6-12 months

- Matched play will bring restrictions to the force org, having to take a leader and 3 troops will throw a wrench in a lot of builds currently

- Unit types going away means every unit can be its own unique thing and adds a whole new depth to the game

- rumoured 8 page rule book means its easier to for new people. Which is amazing.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

 kirotheavenger wrote:
If 8th ed has a generals handbook and it contains all the rule, I'm picturing something akin to this:


Although I would be sad even if it was equivalent to the 5th or 6th ed rule books in size.

The sad part is if you stacked all the codexes, supplements, dataslates, expansions, and rulebook together, you'd actually get a pile about that high. I wish I was joking about this.

Well, I know what I'm doing next time my LGS is empty.

 Verviedi wrote:

Well, I know what I'm doing next time my LGS is empty.

Do it and post the picture. It might overtake the original meme!

KalexKurosaki wrote:
Unless I'm seriously missing something with the GH for AoS, it doesn't contain the rules for different armies... It contains the points cost for all available things currently and the traits & artifacts for each of the four grand alliances... But no rules for the armies...

The Grand Alliance books have all of the rules for all of the units in them, but then I don't think 40k is going to have Grand Alliances in them so you'll need more than just the GH for the units rules... Unless I'm mistaken

People tend to forget that afther the reset AoS did have regular releases with separate books and power creep.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

 Verviedi wrote:

Well, I know what I'm doing next time my LGS is empty.

Do it and post the picture. It might overtake the original meme!

Sure, I'll work it out with the local manager next time I'm in. Will be a while, though.

Reavas wrote:
I hear a lot of problems about people who bring unpainted mini's and no codex spouting questionable rules.

A new edition won't cause someone that doesn't enjoy painting to suddenly paint his stuff, nor will it stop a TFG from rules lawyering the most pathetically pedantic points.

In short "That guy" is an donkey-cave, an edition change has yet to stop them and never will. He will always find a way to be one.

"That Guy"is the one without actual copies of the codices or datasheets, that doesn't share info about unit special abilities until after you've made your moves, does not accept FAQ answers, only remembers the unit rules that benefit him and not any negative effects, and is also completely indifferent to the opponents lack of a fun game.

Its in every game no matter what. Like in Star Wars Armada when you find yourself up against the guy who has designed his fleet to attempt to ram your ships to death. Games just let those people be a bully with no real repercussions so they can revel in their own sense of greatness. Which usually the real world would like to dispute.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
"That Guy"is the one without actual copies of the codices or datasheets, that doesn't share info about unit special abilities until after you've made your moves, does not accept FAQ answers, only remembers the unit rules that benefit him and not any negative effects, and is also completely indifferent to the opponents lack of a fun game.

You know Bob!?