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 AegisGrimm wrote:
Its in every game no matter what. Like in Star Wars Armada when you find yourself up against the guy who has designed his fleet to attempt to ram your ships to death. Games just let those people be a bully with no real repercussions so they can revel in their own sense of greatness. Which usually the real world would like to dispute.

aka every ITC event ever.

 Verviedi wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

 kirotheavenger wrote:
If 8th ed has a generals handbook and it contains all the rule, I'm picturing something akin to this:


Although I would be sad even if it was equivalent to the 5th or 6th ed rule books in size.

The sad part is if you stacked all the codexes, supplements, dataslates, expansions, and rulebook together, you'd actually get a pile about that high. I wish I was joking about this.

Well, I know what I'm doing next time my LGS is empty.

Don't be cheating - you can probably do it honestly.
No doubles and take a photo showing all the spines.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

 Verviedi wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

 kirotheavenger wrote:
If 8th ed has a generals handbook and it contains all the rule, I'm picturing something akin to this:


Although I would be sad even if it was equivalent to the 5th or 6th ed rule books in size.

The sad part is if you stacked all the codexes, supplements, dataslates, expansions, and rulebook together, you'd actually get a pile about that high. I wish I was joking about this.

Well, I know what I'm doing next time my LGS is empty.

Don't be cheating - you can probably do it honestly.
No doubles and take a photo showing all the spines.

And don't forget to print out the digital rules

Reavas wrote:



Yeah but they nerfed the whole "run and shoot" aspect, as well as D and scatter lasers seemingly biting the dust.

Really? What are you referring to?

Every time I bring up 8th edition on here people tell me I'm crazy for even thinking it's actually coming so... what's changed?

v0iddrgn wrote:
Every time I bring up 8th edition on here people tell me I'm crazy for even thinking it's actually coming so... what's changed?

GW actively said they were working on it

v0iddrgn wrote:
Every time I bring up 8th edition on here people tell me I'm crazy for even thinking it's actually coming so... what's changed?

I have not seen that at all. GW said that we'd be using all new rules before the next AdeptiCon (March 2018). I was in the room at AdeptiCon 2017 when this was announced by GW.

Many rumor mongers, some of the most reliable ones, are saying it will be this summer. I fully believe that by the end of July, we'll have 8th edition books in our hands.

I'll refer you to this thread I started a while back so you know what I mean.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/718259.page

in AOS we actually have a guy at my GW who is like this. At least two games he's brought more points than his opponent (people discovered it later when they had already lost the game), and one game he was spectating and told the Ironjawz player some rule about them moving forward if they wipe out a unit, without being able to cite anything. He believed the guy and later found out that there is no such rule.

I think with rules/scrolls freely available, this kind of behaviour should be curbed because anything can be verified, and the rule should always be "Show me the scroll/on the app/etc" instead of taking what someone says at face value.

If GW claims to be working on it we've probably got time.

Wayniac wrote:


I think with rules/scrolls freely available, this kind of behaviour should be curbed because anything can be verified, and the rule should always be "Show me the scroll/on the app/etc" instead of taking what someone says at face value.

I think scrolls make it harder, or at least no difference.
In 40k as is ''show me that in the book'' works fine, if you trust your opponent not to bring the book that's fine, and that's on you. I'd stop trusting a player once they even started to give a whiff of making stuff up.
If all the rules are on digital scrolls, not everyone has a tablet or wants to bring it in, and not everyone has ready access to a printer (and besides if it's print outs that's a lot easier for TFG to make his own stuff). Whereas actual codexs are pretty much forge proof (although if someone's forging rules they've got a big problem).

The scrolls work fine on a smartphone, and I'd wager most people have that. I keep the AOS app going with all the scrolls downloaded just in case I need to quickly bring something up to show my opponent. If someone wants to go through the effort to forge a warscroll, then idk what to say.

Wayniac wrote:
The scrolls work fine on a smartphone, and I'd wager most people have that. I keep the AOS app going with all the scrolls downloaded just in case I need to quickly bring something up to show my opponent. If someone wants to go through the effort to forge a warscroll, then idk what to say.

Oh I thought they were tablet only.
Well I'm personally one of those freaks that doesn't have a smart phone. Well not a smart enough phone anyway.

v0iddrgn wrote:
I'll refer you to this thread I started a while back so you know what I mean.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/718259.page

That was right before Adepticon 2017, where GW announced some of the new changes coming.

I have far too much experience with "that player", to the point that I own all the 40K codexes and I browse and have a somewhat good understanding of all the AoS factions (digital app FTW). I've done a similar thing for Warmachine/Hordes, and I find myself doing the same thing in other games as well.

Everyone forgets a rule. Everyone makes mistakes. But a guy that shows up to the table with an unpainted army, no codex/army book, and using some print out from <insert name of whatever web app here> that has all his rules on it... I just don't want to play a guy like that. I don't want to have to get out my calculator and codex for my opponent's army and make sure it's the right amount of points. "It's only a few points Over!" , well, conversely, you could always play a few points under too. The points limits are a limit, not a suggestion. It can spin off from there. I don't want to have to be skeptical of every special rule my opponent comes up with, or the "creative interpretation" they have of the rules. And I don't want to hear about how rule X from the FAQ and this rule from this codex and this special characters ability and the formation rule from that codex allows the army to reroll all misses and FnP 3+ and a 4+ invulnerable.

Formations have ruined 40K. Detachments are not a good way to balance out an army. There are far too many positive special rules, and not enough negative ones. No army should get over +10% of free points in transports for simply taking the units they would normally take (looking at you, Gladious Strike Force).

There are these guys even in AoS. As simple as the rules are, they pour over the rules and warscrolls, looking for those margins to exploit, and when they find them, they spam them and congratulate themselves for their own tactical acumen and think they are a great player for it. They are the first to decry any nerf to their "tricks" and the first to discover the Rube Goldberg rules that allows them what is obviously an unintentional consequence of the rules. I have no pity, no remorse, and not at all afraid to tell them straight up they are being for playing like that. We play games to have fun- both players. It's not all just about you. There are social consequences for every game, and I'm a firm believer in that I'll play That Guy once, tell him exactly what I think about his army, and then never play him again unless he changes his ways.

Sounds harsh, but I just don't want to deal with that kind of BS. My time is valuable, and I play table top games to blow off steam and have fun. Not have my teeth kicked in by some Neckbeard or Grognard who has nothing better to do then exploit rules and think they are the best player in the world for it.

 Tamwulf wrote:


I have far too much experience with "that player", to the point that I own all the 40K codexes and I browse and have a somewhat good understanding of all the AoS factions (digital app FTW). I've done a similar thing for Warmachine/Hordes, and I find myself doing the same thing in other games as well.

Everyone forgets a rule. Everyone makes mistakes. But a guy that shows up to the table with an unpainted army, no codex/army book, and using some print out from <insert name of whatever web app here> that has all his rules on it... I just don't want to play a guy like that. I don't want to have to get out my calculator and codex for my opponent's army and make sure it's the right amount of points. "It's only a few points Over!" , well, conversely, you could always play a few points under too. The points limits are a limit, not a suggestion. It can spin off from there. I don't want to have to be skeptical of every special rule my opponent comes up with, or the "creative interpretation" they have of the rules. And I don't want to hear about how rule X from the FAQ and this rule from this codex and this special characters ability and the formation rule from that codex allows the army to reroll all misses and FnP 3+ and a 4+ invulnerable.

Formations have ruined 40K. Detachments are not a good way to balance out an army. There are far too many positive special rules, and not enough negative ones. No army should get over +10% of free points in transports for simply taking the units they would normally take (looking at you, Gladious Strike Force).

There are these guys even in AoS. As simple as the rules are, they pour over the rules and warscrolls, looking for those margins to exploit, and when they find them, they spam them and congratulate themselves for their own tactical acumen and think they are a great player for it. They are the first to decry any nerf to their "tricks" and the first to discover the Rube Goldberg rules that allows them what is obviously an unintentional consequence of the rules. I have no pity, no remorse, and not at all afraid to tell them straight up they are being for playing like that. We play games to have fun- both players. It's not all just about you. There are social consequences for every game, and I'm a firm believer in that I'll play That Guy once, tell him exactly what I think about his army, and then never play him again unless he changes his ways.

Sounds harsh, but I just don't want to deal with that kind of BS. My time is valuable, and I play table top games to blow off steam and have fun. Not have my teeth kicked in by some Neckbeard or Grognard who has nothing better to do then exploit rules and think they are the best player in the world for it.

You'd love MtG, breaking the game is half the game.
Same kind of applies to anything that has rules.
Any competition that has rules has people who bend those rules.
Basketball has five fouls and people who are more than happy to use four of them.
Soccer/football has wusses who take a dive to get a penalty and people who give up their pride "for the sake of the team" to take a dive for a penalty...how they're not also wusses is anyone's guess.

Sportsmanship is kind of hard to enforce because it's such a blurry line.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
You'd love MtG, breaking the game is half the game.

I was always a really casual MtG player. I still remember the first time I played against a more serious player who wanted to test out his dredge deck. He wasn't being TFG though, he was upfront about what was going to happen so it was still fun in a "what the hell is even happening" sort of way.

I can see the fun and appeal in searching for exploits in the rules that allow for crazy combos. I think that is a better fit for a game like MtG than a game like 40k, but if people want to try to break 40k that's fine as long as they are upfront about what they're doing and don't ambush people.

I'm hoping that if GW adopts the warscrolls + GHB model for 40k they'll be able to squish those things as they come up. Then when someone comes up with an unkillable deathstar you can be impressed at their cleverness but not have to worry about it being legal for the next three years, and people will have to put more thought into whether or not they want to spend the money on some fluff-killing combo if it is just going to be invalidated by a warscroll update in a month or two.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

 Tamwulf wrote:


I have far too much experience with "that player", to the point that I own all the 40K codexes and I browse and have a somewhat good understanding of all the AoS factions (digital app FTW). I've done a similar thing for Warmachine/Hordes, and I find myself doing the same thing in other games as well.

Everyone forgets a rule. Everyone makes mistakes. But a guy that shows up to the table with an unpainted army, no codex/army book, and using some print out from <insert name of whatever web app here> that has all his rules on it... I just don't want to play a guy like that. I don't want to have to get out my calculator and codex for my opponent's army and make sure it's the right amount of points. "It's only a few points Over!" , well, conversely, you could always play a few points under too. The points limits are a limit, not a suggestion. It can spin off from there. I don't want to have to be skeptical of every special rule my opponent comes up with, or the "creative interpretation" they have of the rules. And I don't want to hear about how rule X from the FAQ and this rule from this codex and this special characters ability and the formation rule from that codex allows the army to reroll all misses and FnP 3+ and a 4+ invulnerable.

Formations have ruined 40K. Detachments are not a good way to balance out an army. There are far too many positive special rules, and not enough negative ones. No army should get over +10% of free points in transports for simply taking the units they would normally take (looking at you, Gladious Strike Force).

There are these guys even in AoS. As simple as the rules are, they pour over the rules and warscrolls, looking for those margins to exploit, and when they find them, they spam them and congratulate themselves for their own tactical acumen and think they are a great player for it. They are the first to decry any nerf to their "tricks" and the first to discover the Rube Goldberg rules that allows them what is obviously an unintentional consequence of the rules. I have no pity, no remorse, and not at all afraid to tell them straight up they are being for playing like that. We play games to have fun- both players. It's not all just about you. There are social consequences for every game, and I'm a firm believer in that I'll play That Guy once, tell him exactly what I think about his army, and then never play him again unless he changes his ways.

Sounds harsh, but I just don't want to deal with that kind of BS. My time is valuable, and I play table top games to blow off steam and have fun. Not have my teeth kicked in by some Neckbeard or Grognard who has nothing better to do then exploit rules and think they are the best player in the world for it.

You'd love MtG, breaking the game is half the game.
Same kind of applies to anything that has rules.
Any competition that has rules has people who bend those rules.
Basketball has five fouls and people who are more than happy to use four of them.
Soccer/football has wusses who take a dive to get a penalty and people who give up their pride "for the sake of the team" to take a dive for a penalty...how they're not also wusses is anyone's guess.

Sportsmanship is kind of hard to enforce because it's such a blurry line.

Applying MtG logic though, most tournaments would only allow the three most recent Codexes.

That might actually solve a lot of the problems in competitive games.

Aren't the three most recent codicies/codexes all IoM?

 Asmodai wrote:
...Applying MtG logic though, most tournaments would only allow the three most recent Codexes.

That might actually solve a lot of the problems in competitive games.

The problem with MTG-logic is that the effort involved in rotating cards in and out of your deck is dramatically lower than the effort involved in buying and painting up a bunch of new units.

The idea of content-restricted formats and a banlist is a good one, but rotating by release date doesn't really translate.

I was actually using MtG as an emphisis rather than trying to apply Magic as a solution.
If a game has rules people will try to use those rules to get an advantage, that's part of the game - in Magic the Gathering that is the game.

I would rather play that guy with a fully painted army who relies on battle scribe than that guy who brings 3 books ebay painted 3rd party mini proxies that don't have arms or aren't close to scale just to try his new power list. There will always be power gamers. it sounds a lot like 8th edition's power gamers will be horde assault heavy which gets assaulting armies to buy more minis and defenders to buy more minis. It only makes sense. The truth of it is each codex doesn't contain all the rules for your army and niether does the brb. In order to truly "streamline"this gw needs to knock battlescribe out by releasing digital codexs that contain all rules for every model in that army, a list building feature and a digital rulebook that shows tutorials on how things are intended. This would allow faq to be updated in throughout the years and all of this could be under the cloak of an app to suit newer and younger players. Integrating digitally could even evolve into a function as a kind of social media like dakkadakka.


Long story short the future of that guy is.............................................................................................................................................................................................. a forum troll

nateprati wrote:
I would rather play that guy with a fully painted army who relies on battle scribe than that guy who brings 3 books ebay painted 3rd party mini proxies that don't have arms or aren't close to scale just to try his new power list. There will always be power gamers. it sounds a lot like 8th edition's power gamers will be horde assault heavy which gets assaulting armies to buy more minis and defenders to buy more minis. It only makes sense. The truth of it is each codex doesn't contain all the rules for your army and niether does the brb. In order to truly "streamline"this gw needs to knock battlescribe out by releasing digital codexs that contain all rules for every model in that army, a list building feature and a digital rulebook that shows tutorials on how things are intended. This would allow faq to be updated in throughout the years and all of this could be under the cloak of an app to suit newer and younger players. Integrating digitally could even evolve into a function as a kind of social media like dakkadakka.


Long story short the future of that guy is.............................................................................................................................................................................................. a forum troll

You could try to sell that idea to them, you'd have a better chance if you could make the app to show.

Man Wolf I really hope someone does.

I promised.



Every different rulebook in the store - 23 inches. Every rulebook (not pictured) - about 4 feet.

TheIronCrow wrote:- Requisition points solves summoning and numerous other issues

Would somebody explain this point? I don't understand this.

- Unit types going away means every unit can be its own unique thing and adds a whole new depth to the game

What do you mean by this?

At least some unit types will still be in the game. For example, in the release about the shooting phase, GW told us very clearly that there will be a class of models called "infantry."

 Verviedi wrote:
I promised.



Every different rulebook in the store - 23 inches. Every rulebook (not pictured) - about 4 feet.

Respect.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
You'd love MtG, breaking the game is half the game.

Except when it completely breaks the game, as evidenced by the recent "emergency ban" of Felidar Guardian...

 Verviedi wrote:
I promised.



Every different rulebook in the store - 23 inches. Every rulebook (not pictured) - about 4 feet.

I am bad with measurements that don't have an immediate visual scale reference.

was that up to your knee?

Roughly. It's almost 1/3 of my height. The full stack is allegedly at roughly chest level. I had to squat to hold the measuring tape.
All of those books are also oriented sideways, resting on their sides on the bottom shelf of a table.