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While I'm all for WYSIWYG as much as possible...you can save a lot of money using a regular land raider phobos plastic kit...I'm just wondering how people feel about this.

I'm putting in an order for several Forge World units (Spartan, Typhon, Two Deredeo's with weapons, etc.). I know the profile for both is slightly different, but things add up.

I just want to see what people think, I get immersion as a factor, but at some point I think giving people a pass is fine.

The phobos is a legal choice for a land raider in a legion list so isn't a suitable proxy for a proteus.
Unless you heavily modified it to not have a front ramp.

Captyn_Bob wrote:
The phobos is a legal choice for a land raider in a legion list so isn't a suitable proxy for a proteus.
Unless you heavily modified it to not have a front ramp.

Got it...Proteus is in my future then, back to the drawing board.

Personally, I run triple lascannon proteus raiders for my Dark Angels. I just plopped a Razorback TL lascannon turret onto a phobos and called it a day, reminding opponents and remembering that the front hatch doesn't work.

Nobody at my FLGS has had a problem with it.

 obsidiankatana wrote:
Personally, I run triple lascannon proteus raiders for my Dark Angels. I just plopped a Razorback TL lascannon turret onto a phobos and called it a day, reminding opponents and remembering that the front hatch doesn't work.

Nobody at my FLGS has had a problem with it.

''


That's what I wanted to do...and maybe magnetize a dozer blade from a rhino to the front.

I get that the profiles are a bit different, but nothing drastic, plus this way it's easier to pay for different options and swap out turrets to keep things WYSIWYG.

This is a slippery slope once you start down it. It's one thing to modify or even build from scratch a model that doesn't exist. It's a totally different thing when the model does exist. In this case, the actual model looks significantly different from what is being described here.

I've never been a big fan of "Oh, that's not a Predator. I'm proxiying it as a Sicaran Battle Tank" or "That's not a Space Marine with a Bolter. That's actually my Primarch."

Then again, I play with a guy that plays fully painted and WYSIWYG, but his interpretation of the rules can be summed up as "loose".

I hate playing against a rules Nazi, and I hate playing against the die hard WYSIWYG player. All I'd say is make sure the model looks as different as you can, and not just a Mars Pattern Predator turret blue-tacked to the top of a MK IIB Land Raider.

I'd be fine with a suitable modification, if you want to use them as both, I'd make a different pair of front plates.

Showing a little effort to make it clear is most of what I want out of a conversion, not everyone's got the time or skill to do something epic.

I'd just change the front of he hull so the ramp isnt there, which should be easy enough. Then if you arent gonna use one of the hull mounted guns, alter the fighting compartment some. You could change the tracks if you want also to make them look more Proteus like. With all the different patterns and sub-patterns of vehicles and armor in the game there's no reason a converted Phobos cant be the *Insert Name Here* Pattern Land Raider, based on a mix of Proteus and Phobos design documents. Or its a retrofit using captured or recovered vehicles.

While proxys are something im very much down with i think if the model is an actual model for something different within the same system and you intend to use it continuously instead of replacing it with either the official model or a converted version at your earliest conveniance that isnt a good idea.

I think that's a question best asked of the people that you play with. If they are hardcore WYSIWYG and want all the shoulder markings to be appropriate for their respective squad, you're probably going to need a proteus. If they are more laid back, you might be okay with minor modifications.

I find that most people are okay with a proxy as long as it's not confusing. If you have only one land raider and tell me that it's a proteus (and don't try to exit out of the front), I can remember that. If you have 3 land raiders that look the same, but one of them is supposed to be a proteus, that's a bit harder to remember.

I don't think its reasonable to demand someone pay 100 quid for the resin kit just because you don't like them proxying in a plastic one.

Not everyone earns the same or has the same commitments.

OP use what you want as long as its clear in your list what version it is there's no issue.

The main issue is, that variant already exists and has rules.
So using it for a different pattern would irritate some people.

It's like saying that 5 man support squad hasn't got flamers, they are all meltas instead.



The idea of a proxy is to count something as something else.
Which is fine, but causes problems when using something that already has rules as something different.

hobojebus wrote:
I don't think its reasonable to demand someone pay 100 quid for the resin kit just because you don't like them proxying in a plastic one

It's entirely reasonable to expect people playing this game based on collecting miniatures to use the models they want to use the rules for.

No-one is demanding anything. If you can't afford a model, don't use it or convert something suitably cool looking as a proxy.

The proteus isn't even particularly good, the phobos is better.

I would be fine with it, so long as the base model was converted so it was clear that it wasn't a standard Phobos. Otherwise, I agree with the general sentiment that proxies are to be avoided if possible.

 Saber wrote:
I would be fine with it, so long as the base model was converted so it was clear that it wasn't a standard Phobos. Otherwise, I agree with the general sentiment that proxies are to be avoided if possible.

If it was the only Landraider on the table, then I would not have a problem with it.

That's certainly better than the BS "these space marines on boars are jet bikes" I played at the Horus Heresy Kill Team event at Adepticon. Also, the guy was an ass.

 kronk wrote:
That's certainly better than the BS "these space marines on boars are jet bikes" I played at the Horus Heresy Kill Team event at Adepticon. Also, the guy was an ass.

Yikes.

Lol. I mean... Bikes I can see.... But jetbikes.. Lol .

Buut one man's cool converted proxy is another man's mess. Very subjective

 kronk wrote:


If it was the only Landraider on the table, then I would not have a problem with it.

That's certainly better than the BS "these space marines on boars are jet bikes" I played at the Horus Heresy Kill Team event at Adepticon. Also, the guy was an ass.

The last tournament I went to my opponent had a jumble of unpainted and partially assembled treemen (or whatever wood elfs are called in Age of Sigmar), some of whom had various 40k weapons glued to them. One group was riptides (of course), the other group was one kind of Eldar (of course), and the third group was another kind of Eldar (naturally). I almost elected to not play the game but instead I tried to be polite and suffered through two hours of the guy rules lawyering the (admittedly awful) terrain rules for 40K and beating me en route to winning the tournament. Bad proxies almost always indicate a bad player, one way or the other.

Don't have bad proxies. Have nice models. Love your models. Love the game. Love your opponent.

I do it the other way round.
My WE need a assault vehicle. But the Phobos look way too much "40k-ish". So I asked my group if they would have a problem if I would use the FW Proteus and we just pretend it has an assault ramp.
They all liked the idea.

In my 40k group there are a couple of "I want to play, but I don't care for the models"-guy. But the 30k group is exclusively made up of "I want a army that looks great"-people.

Isn't there a considerable difference in the size and shape of a Proteus and Phobos?
I swear the Proteus was taller and more squat?

I personaly don't have problems with that. If someone proxies a model or 2 i'm fine with it. And i've played against blood angels no so long ago, who used a plastic gw land raider. Just like using a regular droppod as a dreadnought droppod - absolutly no problem here, imho.

To me, whether proxies are acceptable or not is all about degrees.

A Phobos, properly modified, isn't even remotely in the same category as "this random bolter dude is my Primarch" or "this random bolter dude is a jetbike", or "This Predator is a Sicarin". Those things don't at all look the same.

I don't think it's close to being in the same category as "these flamers are plasmaguns" either.

Let's be real here. Land Raider Phobos have two sponson Lascannons and an assault ramp. Proteus doesn't have an assault ramp and can have a 3rd Lascannon. For my stuff, I used plasticard to cover up up the assault ramp and put a 3rd lascannon on there. That's not a Phobos anymore, that's a Proteus. If someone has an issue with it, I'll play someone else. For the record, I've never had anyone have an issue with it.

My mate I play the most often has no issue with my switching between using my plastic(ish) land raider as a phobos and a proteus. I just have a plastic land raider, with the bit of kit required for the sponsons of the Proteus, and then swap the heavy bolters on top for lascannons where required. Works well.
But then again, I let him proxy 2 drop pods out of paper last night while his are in the mail, so I guess we are less up tight than some players?

I have played against, and with, drinks can drop pods.

In my old local gaming club wed always be trying out new lists and ideas, so rather than buy 6 drop pods to then realise we didnt enjoy the list, we proxied drinks cans.

A phobos as a proteus I feel would be fine, just let your opponent know. And if you like using it, buy ine

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Isn't there a considerable difference in the size and shape of a Proteus and Phobos?
I swear the Proteus was taller and more squat?

Kinda depends which model you use - there are, of course, two 'legal' models for a Proteus - the FW one or the one from 1989!! The size difference between a current plastic Phobos and the FW Proteus is nothing compared to the difference between that and the 80s model.

I agree with the majority here - if the plastic Land Raider is converted to obviously be a Proteus, I'd be fine with it. Bonus points for building two magnetised 'front hulls' so you can use it as both!!

I've always been of the opinion that I play with what I have.

So, rather than writing an army list with a Proteus in it, and scrabbling around for something to represent the Proteus, I'll just write an army list with a Phobos-pattern Land Raider in it.