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So is everyone disliking the plasma culverin's on kataphrons? I have had GREAT results with it versus vehicles in particular. I have a dominus nearby (I don't have Cawl yet...) for reroll 1's and overcharge every turn. I have killed a full health chimera in a turn with 3 kataphrons. The random shot number is a pain, for sure, but I struggle to stick wounds on ANYTHING with my grav cannons. Maybe it's because more vehicles are coming out and the s5 grav just won't wound as much? I am much more pro-plasma this edition, that s8 from overcharging is great. I also stuck like 11 wounds on a lord of skulls in 1 round of shooting between 5 kataphrons my last game out. I did finally end up losing some kataphrons to the plasma overheat, but that's because my dominus got punked by a knight, so I didn't have rerolls. If you have the reroll 1's I think you can make plasma work for sure.

I haven't had much luck with the transonic arquebus, though I love the idea and want to make it work. I wish I had more plasma calivers for my vanguard I have built (I started with 2 start collecting boxes so I only got 2 of each special). I'll have to get either another start collecting box (another dunecrawler too ) or just get some more vanguard/ranger models in their own kit so I can keep up the msu + loads of special weapons. Are cc weapons on the sergeants completely not worth it? I tried a power sword and couldn't stick wounds with s3 but the arc maul making you s5 helped a bunch!

Thanks for listening.

So I am new-ish into mechanicum in 8th and wanted to feedback on my list here. I know everyone is kinda down on kataphrons, but I have 6 and no kastellans or ballistarii so I am making due. I have had great luck in my games with the plasma variety as well (4 games against guard, tau, orks and dark angels).

Battalion -
dominus - volkite, phosphor serpentia
dominus - eradication, phosphor serpentia
Cawl
3 kataphrons - plasma/phosphor blasters
3 kataphrons - plasma/phosphor blasters
5 rangers - 2 arquebus, omnispex
10 vanguard - 3 plasma calivers, enhanced data tether / alpha with arc maul
dunecrawler - neutron laser, extra heavy stubber, BSDT
dunecrawler - icarus array, BSDT
Knight warden w/gauntlet, stormspear rocket pod

So after reading the tactica, I think splitting the 10 vanguard into 2x5 with 2 plasmas each sounds like a better idea, I am just having issues with 5 vanguard getting blown off the table by wyverns 10 would at least get me into a position to shoot some stuff, but I digress.

Without access to kastellans or ballistarii (I will hopefully be getting some kastellans soon, but I am not a huge fan of ballistarii models if I'm honest) how would you guys tweak this list. I have access to all 4 assassins (which I have run all of and am thinking the eversor and vindy came out on top in 8th) and a space marine collection to fill out holes where needed. My list isn't very fast or mobile and I was thinking of either some infiltrators or rustalkers to take the pressure off the big guns in the back. Also, I haven't finished putting my knight together and plan on magnetizing to have all options available - so that's a thing too. I just love the idea of a big stompy robot with a giant gattling cannon and crunchy fist

Thanks for the ideas fellas.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Suzuteo wrote:
This is a really good primer for new players:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/08/24/tactical-toolbox-going-secondgw-homepage-post-4/

As AdMech, always assume you are going second. If they have Deep Strike, always disperse your deployment to block it. And always hide your Crawlers; remember, they don't get a penalty for moving, so they don't need to start 6" from Cawl; they just need to be able to walk there.

My last game against a guard army that was artillery heavy had me really down after the first turn. My knight went from 24 wounds to 8, my rangers got wiped in morale, both units of vanguard were down 2-3 dudes before I got to fire a shot. I had a lackluster first turn but my opponent's poor second turn opened the door. My second turn saw my knight kill a Valkyrie and two leman russ's by himself (the russ's were damaged, but still ), I destroyed his last leman russ, his other valkyrie and got into combat with both squads that were inside the flyers.

After 5 turns I managed a win when I thought I was for sure going to lose to all those big guns. The army was much more resilient than I gave it credit for. I only had both my dominus', 2-3 kataphrons and both assassins left, but that's all I needed to hold 3 objectives to his 1. Super fun game snatching victory from the jaws of defeat lol

Played a 2000 point game on saturday versus a khorne list as follows:
kharn
3x8 berserkers - power fist champ, 2x plasma pistols, all chain axes
10 cultists - shotgun champ, heavy stubber
decimator - butcher cannon
blood slaughterer
renegade knight lancer
3x rhino (zerkers and kharn here)

So I went 2nd, which wasn't too big of a deal, as he didn't have much shooting. What did make a difference is my complete inability to blow up kharn's rhino T1. I shot my nuetron, 3 plasma kataphrons, avenger gattling cannon and icarus autocannon at it and it still had 2w left I was a tad peeved at my lack of ability to kill stuff this game. If I could have knocked out his rhino T1, I could have focused on killing the other rhinos the next turn. I caught a squad of zerkers in the open on T2 and obliterated them, but the others got to stay inside their boxes until they jumped out and charged. We all know how that went... zerkers fighting twice is NUTS. Made a mistake with cawl and got him charged by some zerkers and they didn't even need their second fight phase to kill him. I had my knight on 1w and a TPD on 4w at the end when we called it. It was a kill point game.

I think kastellans would have done WONDERS in this game. all those s6 shots would have openned up the boxes for sure, and helped kill the stuff inside once it got out. I probably won't run the warden again, as the AGC didn't really do much for me. Next game I'm going to try the thermal cannon and an errant with the gauntlet and stormspear pod.

I am starting to think that I need to get over my dislike of balistarii and dragoons. I don't have much mobility and my little infantry gets killed too fast.

Any suggestions going forward, let me know

Sorry I had posted the list up on this page:
dominus - volkite, phosphor serpentia
dominus - eradication, phosphor serpentia
Cawl
3 kataphrons - plasma/phosphor blasters
3 kataphrons - plasma/phosphor blasters
5 rangers - 2 arquebus, omnispex
10 vanguard - 3 plasma calivers, enhanced data tether / alpha with arc maul
dunecrawler - neutron laser, extra heavy stubber, BSDT
dunecrawler - icarus array, BSDT
Knight warden w/gauntlet, stormspear rocket pod

This is pretty much my whole collection (I discussed expansion earlier in the thread) and how I don't have kastellans right now, or dragoons (balistarii). I love the dominus unit as they are a great all-around buffer to the army, and I had just put Cawl together (whom I might drop next game) so I wanted to run him.

I ran the warden with gauntlet and autocannon, but next game I'm going to go with the melta cannon and see how that does.

 Castellan Alaric wrote:
Played a 2000 point game on saturday versus a khorne list as follows:
kharn
3x8 berserkers - power fist champ, 2x plasma pistols, all chain axes
10 cultists - shotgun champ, heavy stubber
decimator - butcher cannon
blood slaughterer
renegade knight lancer
3x rhino (zerkers and kharn here)

So I went 2nd, which wasn't too big of a deal, as he didn't have much shooting. What did make a difference is my complete inability to blow up kharn's rhino T1. I shot my nuetron, 3 plasma kataphrons, avenger gattling cannon and icarus autocannon at it and it still had 2w left I was a tad peeved at my lack of ability to kill stuff this game. If I could have knocked out his rhino T1, I could have focused on killing the other rhinos the next turn. I caught a squad of zerkers in the open on T2 and obliterated them, but the others got to stay inside their boxes until they jumped out and charged. We all know how that went... zerkers fighting twice is NUTS. Made a mistake with cawl and got him charged by some zerkers and they didn't even need their second fight phase to kill him. I had my knight on 1w and a TPD on 4w at the end when we called it. It was a kill point game.

I think kastellans would have done WONDERS in this game. all those s6 shots would have openned up the boxes for sure, and helped kill the stuff inside once it got out. I probably won't run the warden again, as the AGC didn't really do much for me. Next game I'm going to try the thermal cannon and an errant with the gauntlet and stormspear pod.

I am starting to think that I need to get over my dislike of balistarii and dragoons. I don't have much mobility and my little infantry gets killed too fast.

Any suggestions going forward, let me know

The nice thing about Dragoons is that they can tie up a few Rhinos without killing them. This forces them to fall back or disembark their infantry before they can get into CC with your artillery.

And yeah, Berserkers pretty much kill everything in CC. I would be perfectly okay sacrificing Cawl and Dominus to keep them off my Kastelans and Crawlers though. =\

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Alaric, you might as well wait a bit before investing more into AdMech. Who knows what the Codex will shake up.

Ya I'm not buying anything right now, I'm just thinking through was good forward progress will be. I don't see kastellans going down in utility, do you? Maybe a points fluctuation but they'll still be solid. It would be nice to have a sort of skitarii alpha HQ that'd be cheaper than a dominus that maybe just granted rerolls to skitarii units, but I think that's wishlisting too much lol

cheers

Jaynen wrote:

Jackal444 wrote:
I've learned to ask if anything or anyone in their army can deep strike at under 9" like the Callidus just to make sure for my bubbles

Can you deep strike into someones deployment zone after the first turn if there is more than a 9" hole?

For sure - if they give you the opening, you can exploit it. Make sure to have your units equally spaced out to cover those 9" bubbles and block deep strikers behind your lines.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:


And that is the beauty of opinions. We all have them and they can be different.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Verviedi wrote:


Huh. Not sure I like those all that much. I use the Wargame Exclusive alternate heads myself.

Those heads are pretty nifty. Dig it.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Castellan Alaric wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Verviedi wrote:


Huh. Not sure I like those all that much. I use the Wargame Exclusive alternate heads myself.

Those heads are pretty nifty. Dig it.

Here they are painted up for my Metalica army, just for reference.

Those models look great man! What'd you convert the dominus out of? Lovely white you achieved.


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Suzuteo wrote:

I think the big problem right now is that the armies to beat all use dominant strategies, and we're a very reactive army. AdMech and Knights actually have very good win rates. But win rates don't determine tournaments; win streaks do. There is a very good chance we will run into an army that will blow us out with fast, aggressive CC. For example, there's not much we can do to stop Green Tide from rolling over us. (Smart Ork players play dumb; advance 1500 points of Boyz at us without any concern for casualties. It's why I really don't think more than 4 Kastelans is a good idea. It's never a matter of whether or not you will get into CC for some armies, but when.)

I can attest to a Khorne themed chaos army getting into my lines and ruining my day. My shooting didn't take the rhinos full of berzerkers out early enough and when the hit, it was all over. I needed balistarii over kataphrons to core the tanks more reliably with lascannons versus plasma. Now the plasma took out the guys once they were out, but I only managed to stop 1/3 units from getting into combat and it was over...Then his lancer came in to back him up and well we know how that went lol

I've been stoked for the reveals on the community page.

I also saw on my facebook feed a conversation with the Warhammer FB team that tech-priest engineseers are an HQ choice now for a cheaper HQ option. It was a picture of a picture, so take that with some , but that would be something that would help us going forward not having to spend bunches of points on dominii.

I have liked all the reveals so far and am looking forward to the others. The Mars ability to have 2 canticles at once is super strong. Add Cawl and it's nutso. That special weapon for Metallica is pretty nifty hitting at s12 -3ap and 3d, though the one attack kind of limits it.

With the opportunity to deep strike, I think kataphrons will make a slight comeback. Not overall in big tourney lists but overall in peoples armies I think they will do better being able to start off the board and get a round of shooting in before taking damage. Pair that with the stratagem to help keep them from dying on a roll of a 1 to plasma, it makes that pretty nasty to vehicles.

I have had luck with kataphrons doing damage to vehicles overcharging but taking casualties to 's early on had cost me a game for sure. Having Cawl or a TPD nearby for rerolls could help big time.

I was pretty against balistarii and dragoons before because I don't like their models but I think having the lascannons is clutch against armor. I only have 1 neutronager so I think 2 balistarii with lascannons can lay down some pain while still being mobile enough to redeploy in my zone if needed.

I see myself running 2 different forge worlds in my army, utilizing mars for sure with cawl and most like lucius to get the kataphrons up close. Opinions on grav versus plasma? (I know they're too many points right now, but bear with me)

So I know some of the units aren't the best choices but I don't actually own all of the models I am going to use, so I'm going to make due with what I have for tomorrow. Some thoughts on my list would be appreciated. My whole collection consists of:
2 TPD
Cawl
15 vanguard w/2 plasma and 2 arc rifles (I use all as plasma)
5 rangers with 2 arquebii
6 kataphrons I built as destroyers
2 onagers (1 icarus and 1 neutron)
Knight (fully magnetized)
all 4 assassins

Heres my thoughts on a list (I'll be using 2 contemptor dreads, I feel they are close on size, for the kastellans and a random space marine as the datasmith)

2k battalion admech (Cawl warlord)

TPD - eradication, phosphor
TPD - volkite, phosphor
Cawl
5 rangers - 2x arquebii, omnispex
5 vanguard - 2 plasma, EDT
5 vanguard - 2 plasma, EDT
Datasmith
2 kastellans - 3x phosphor blasters each
neutronager - extra heavy stubber, BSDT
onager - icarus array, BSDT
Knight Errant - gauntlet, autocannon (ran out of points for the stormspear pod :/ )
Eversor
Vindicaire

So I have some sniping with the rangers and vindicaire, CC threat from the eversor to kind of be a tiny distraction carnifex lol. The kastellans shoot all the stuff while the vanguard try to provide some semblance of 'bubble wrap'. I only have 5 more rangers and they don't have any specials, should I try to get 5 more bodies in there for more buffer? It's not super good at all, but it's super fun to play and I am stoked to keep playing with the army, looking forwards to the codex. If y'all can think of anything to change in the models I have, I'm all ears

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Alaric, you lose your Canticles if you are not all-Admech.

Good call, maybe run then in a vanguard, since I have 3 HQs? It would net me 1 CP as well.

Spera wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Castellan Alaric wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Alaric, you lose your Canticles if you are not all-Admech.

Good call, maybe run then in a vanguard, since I have 3 HQs? It would net me 1 CP as well.

Scrap one of those TDPs and opt for Greyfax to head up the detachment. Probably more useful.

I'd rather take Hector Rex, 20pts more but can deny 3 times and +1 for that, can deep strike and has 3+inv.

Unfortunately I only have space marines to draw from other than the models I posted up that was my whole collection.

Spera wrote:

 Castellan Alaric wrote:

Spera wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Castellan Alaric wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Alaric, you lose your Canticles if you are not all-Admech.

Good call, maybe run then in a vanguard, since I have 3 HQs? It would net me 1 CP as well.

Scrap one of those TDPs and opt for Greyfax to head up the detachment. Probably more useful.

I'd rather take Hector Rex, 20pts more but can deny 3 times and +1 for that, can deep strike and has 3+inv.

Unfortunately I only have space marines to draw from other than the models I posted up that was my whole collection.

Maybe you have terminator with powersword and storm shield? Since you said you are proxing other models, i don't see problem.

I do have a squad of cataphractii terminators for my raven guard, with a captain in cataphractii armor, but at that point I'm sinking some serious points into that vanguard. Maybe use just the captain, then the assassins and datasmith?

I largely agree with your analysis of vangaurd @em_en_oh_pee, but if I was to try and use them as bubble wrap for the artillery, maybe say 2-3 units of 10 with 2 specials, could that be viable? Is it a decent point investment (128pts per index) for bubble wrap? I think then it would help keep deep strikers back away from the important stuff and give you s tiny bit of deterrent with the plasmas, or arc rifles if you so chose. More importantly for me, and I take it most of us are on the same page, is that it'd keep us with an all admech force and not be looking to bring in help from the guard index that is sure to take a hit in the areas it is so good in right now, specifically it's artillery and cheap spamable troops.

I am interested in some dragoons, but I think my most important next purchase will be a set of kastellans and then I will hopefully go for 2 balistarii boxes, and I'm conflicted on whether to go CC or shooting with them. I love the idea of mobile lascannons, but I feel like onagers are better at that, and they'll get sniped out because people don't like playing against lascannons right now (for good reason). So I could see either 2 autocannon balistarii to help with anti-infantry/hordes or some dragoons to help with a deep strike/cc buffer.

Appreciate the help boss.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Large squads of Skitarii usually wind up hurting due to their low leadership. That liability is why you see so little actually invested in them. If they were Fearless, I would run them in squads of 10 with Special Weapons, for sure. Especially Stygies, for that sweet -1 to-hit. But at the moment, they are just too easily undone by their own leadership to make it worthwhile, imo. That is why Dragoons were tested and proved to be simply overall better at screening against deep strikes. And you are right, Onagers do long-range antitank better, so I would say go for Dragoons over Ballistarii - especially under Stygies and now with the -1 AP on the Lance, they can do some damage. I think the Autocannons are pretty mediocre and we have plenty of anti-horde with Kastellans.

What about the addition of an enhanced data tether for a reroll? I know them starting at a 6 and only going up to a 7 with the alpha is a little low, but that was why I was running 5 man units of vanguard with a EDT. I found they got blown off the board by a stiff breeze (cough wyvern cough) so I was hoping a 10-man unit would hold up a bit better, though if they start taking 3 casualties a turn and I need to roll under a 4, it'll be a tad dicey, even with a reroll.

Dig the dragoons, I was really down on the models (and if I'm being perfectly honest I really am not a HUGE fan) but with what they can do, I can make it work lol

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
I'm a min-max player anti-spam, anti-soup player :p


Automatically Appended Next Post:

gendoikari87 wrote:
We have knights...

Imperium has knights. I still deny knights getting any AdMech rules. They're irrelevant as I'll never use them until someone proves me that 1 knight is a good decision in a tournament

A knight will draw loads of anti-armor fire away from your other armor (dunecrawlers) so I don't think it's easy to dismiss it so flatly. The can also put out big hurt in shooting and CC (something admech don't have a lot of). I love the model and will always include it. I don't run the crusader as I think it's TOO many points (~550+) but I think it's better than an auto-leave out.

Ideasweasel wrote:

What knight would you run instead? Also 550 points? Have the points values changed since index or do you mean with a couple of shiny extras?

Like @em_en_oh_pee said, the crusader is like 580ish all decked out with the battle cannon and gatling + the stormspear pod. It is super good, to be sure, but I loved the 6 damage fist option If there is the possibility for knights to get rerolls, expect them to be back with a vengeance.

Right now my list has an errant with a gauntlet and an icarus autocannon due to no points left over for the stormspear pod. He is fully magnetized though so I can go gallant if I wanted or crusader as well. All based on the role I want him to play. In the process of painting him right now, and good gracious is there lots to prime black, even with my airbrush