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Hey, folks.

Just trying to gauge public opinion here.

I'm interested in Primaris, but am also interested in using them to represent a "truescale" army.

Would you, on the table, accept things like Primaris Hellblasters as "counts as" "truescale" Sternguard with Combi-Plasma, for example?

Rule of cool and all that. Make it consistent and clear and I'm sure you won't have any problems. I'm also sure the more WYSIWYG you make the weaponry, the more likely it'll be accepted.

Eh, why not. If modelled well and you don't try to mix in actual Primaris. It is really one of those "rule of cool" things. If you make it look good then people are far less likely to care.

It would be a bit sad not to see the old armour marks, as the new one looks very primaris. Is there an easy way to make it look like the older armour? I haven't got my hands on the models yet.


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I do think that straight count-as would not be very nice to see though. You would need to convert them with the actual weapons and stuff.

I would accept a Primaris using a Bolt Rifle as a Truescale Marine with a bolt gun.

But a Hellblaster would probably count more as a plasmagun-wielding truescale marine rather than a Sternguard with a Combi-Plasma. The thing doesn't look like a combi-weapon is more of the issue there.

Valid enough. I think one could convert them into Combi-Plasma if needed, buying the appropriate bits. Thanks for the feedback, guys.

The whole concept of truescale marines is outright slowed.

Marines ARE truescale, humans (and tau infantry) are not. it because easily visible once you compare them to their respective vehicles.


If you want to properly scale your game, keep the marines exactly as they are, and shrink your humans (and tua infantry), otherwise as you pump up the marine size, you also need to pump up all vehicles, orks, eldar, necron, tyranids, battlesuits, etc in order to match.

Rule of cool, absolutely - but I think you'll have a lot of converting to make the Primaris into similar marine units (I think they're going to intentionally keep them differentiated in structure/wargear/etc.).

But in short, absolutely. I even consider buying a single squad of Primaris to serve as bodyguards for a spice merchant.

I said yes that is fine, as long as you don't have any Primaris used as Primaris as well


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 BoomWolf wrote:
The whole concept of truescale marines is outright slowed.

Marines ARE truescale, humans (and tau infantry) are not. it because easily visible once you compare them to their respective vehicles.


If you want to properly scale your game, keep the marines exactly as they are, and shrink your humans (and tua infantry), otherwise as you pump up the marine size, you also need to pump up all vehicles, orks, eldar, necron, tyranids, battlesuits, etc in order to match.

Truescale marines means that all of their limbs are in proportion as well as being the size they "should" be.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Marines ARE truescale, humans (and tau infantry) are not. it because easily visible once you compare them to their respective vehicles.

Well the choices are to either increase the size of your own models, or reduce the size of your opponents models. I know which one is the less expensive option...

Yeah, that not only makes sense, but I felt like its what GW was going for. That is, they wanted giant "movie marines" that fit the fluff of space marines being super durable and super tall, but didn't want to invalidate the entire existing range to do it. This helps explain why GW's depiction of the Primaris is that they're exactly like other members of the chapter, share a culture, are trusted, etc, when the fluff describes them as unknown outsiders dropped into an elite and proud brotherhood.

Conversely, if someone wanted to use normal marines as Primaris marines, to represent a more cinematic extra-durable marine force with longer range bolters, two wounds, etc, that wouldn't bother me either.

I'm not particularly a fan of this, just for being bitten by people using the 'this thing in my army is actually something else.' (Notably the scout sentinels with multi-lasers that turned out to 'actually be' armored sentinels... after I charged them, and suddenly couldn't wound them. And had plasma cannons).

If it's proxied by something outside the range there is much less confusion.

And since it magnifies all the other scale issues with the game, I can't really see any benefit to it.

Voss wrote:
I'm not particularly a fan of this, just for being bitten by people using the 'this thing in my army is actually something else.' (Notably the scout sentinels with multi-lasers that turned out to 'actually be' armored sentinels... after I charged them, and suddenly couldn't wound them. And had plasma cannons).

If it's proxied by something outside the range there is much less confusion.

And since it magnifies all the other scale issues with the game, I can't really see any benefit to it.

That is really down to your opponent. A good, fun to play against opponent makes proxies easy to follow and will support your decision making by reminding when you may have forgotten. When I have proxied, I always keep it really simple. Like "all of the flamers are plasma", never mix it up so half are one thing and half another. A bad player can make proxies a pain, a good one makes it not an issue.

 BoomWolf wrote:
The whole concept of truescale marines is outright slowed.

Marines ARE truescale, humans (and tau infantry) are not. it because easily visible once you compare them to their respective vehicles.


If you want to properly scale your game, keep the marines exactly as they are, and shrink your humans (and tua infantry), otherwise as you pump up the marine size, you also need to pump up all vehicles, orks, eldar, necron, tyranids, battlesuits, etc in order to match.

Yeah just like the old rogue trader marines, no?

And Imperial Guard models should have a height of 22mm and Tau of 18mm? I have always see this argumentation agains't truescale, but is just absurd. Skitarii and Genestealer Cultists are well proportioned humans for a 28mm scale, stop putting Cadians in the table. And compared with Skitarii and Genestealer Cultists the old Space Marines are DWARFS. STUNTS. ARMOURED SQUATS! And not only are they much smaller that they should, they are totally DIS-proportioned and they squat like slavs.
Really, I love old marines, but to diminiss the "true-scale movement" with this argument is just BS.

The old Space Marines haven't been never been a correct representation of their fluff. And the problem isn't with other humans models, is with the marines themselves!

I had thoughts to do this but I have enough oldmarines that when I get primaris I'll probably just use them as such.

Primaris may work well in SWA or other skirmish games as hulking power armored brutes compared to Gw/infinity/most other 28mm dudes though

Maybe I can find some 25mm/truescale ww2 Germans or something to use as mordians or similar with auto guns, they'd let the oldmarines feel a bit taller

As long as the weapons aren't at all confusing, yeah, that's fine.

Turning mine into personal fluff - Space Wolf characters.

Meh, just inform your opponents and be consistent.

I plan to use primaris, with primaris rules, but convert them to chaos and say they are just CSM.

It's the best way I see of going about it.

 Ashiraya wrote:
I plan to use primaris, with primaris rules, but convert them to chaos and say they are just CSM.

It's the best way I see of going about it.

Hey I had similar thoughts! I'm going to use those primaris marines with jet engines on their back to repsesent my necron tomb blades, just put a necron head on them. Then I'm going to use the rules for eldar jetbikes to better prepresent them. Just have to ally in some orks to represent necron warriors and use primaris marines on foot with necron heads for models.

An alternative way to put my plans would be 'I will run primaris, kitbashed with some chaos bits'.

What is so absurd about that?

That guy is a troll, just ignore him. You idea is pretty cool Ashiyara.

As above, rules of cool, clarity and consistency.

I have a pretty distinct feeling that Primaris Marines are meant to supplant marinelets and bring SM more into parity with what they always should have been in relationship to fluff, scale and mechanics. So I would personally just go with the direction GW is taking them. However, as long as everyone has the right *looking* weapon I don't see any problems with using them as marinelets if you really want to, as long as you don't use ANY Primaris rules in your list at all.

I'm usually fine with proxies, and in this case essentially alternate models as long as it's consistent. As several others have mentioned, as long as you don't include regular and primaris marines in the same force I can't imagine someone taking issue with it.

I'd be okay with it, though if you wanted to make them look more like truescale Marines and less like Primaris there are a few details you could fiddle with. Shave the excess rim off the kneepads, swap out the backpacks for more traditional Marine backpacks, that kind of thing.

 Ashiraya wrote:
I plan to use primaris, with primaris rules, but convert them to chaos and say they are just CSM..

Huh?

You're going to convert primaris to look chaos-y...
but still run them as primaris?
and run them as oversized CSM proxies?
and run them as primaris within a CSM army and house rule?

 spiralingcadaver wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
I plan to use primaris, with primaris rules, but convert them to chaos and say they are just CSM..

Huh?

You're going to convert primaris to look chaos-y...
but still run them as primaris?
and run them as oversized CSM proxies?
and run them as primaris within a CSM army and house rule?

Run a primaris army with chaosy conversions and call them chaos. Seems fine to me. As long as you don't try to ally daemons in there or something, you could just call them a newly traitor primaris force.

 spiralingcadaver wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
I plan to use primaris, with primaris rules, but convert them to chaos and say they are just CSM..

Huh?

You're going to convert primaris to look chaos-y...
but still run them as primaris?
and run them as oversized CSM proxies?
and run them as primaris within a CSM army and house rule?

I will convert Primaris to look chaos-y, but still run them as Primaris for all rules purposes, which of course includes allies.

That should work just fine in tournaments (I seriously doubt helmet/pauldron/paintjob swaps is going to cause any complaints there).

From a fluff standpoint, in my eyes they will just be CSM with more accurate models (I think the Primaris, due to their more reasonable proportions and scale, make for better marine models than the marines themselves do). Of course, if that is an issue with anyone I face, I can indeed just handwave them as newly turned renegade Primaris, since lore is not something I am interested in getting into arguments about.

IRL, anyway.

Honestly, proxying Primaris as non-Primaris is something I can see causing problems. They are larger than normal Marines which interferes with LoS and they will be very easily confused with actual non-proxies. I'd still play against it but playing a Primaris army that counts as a Primaris army, simply with a few conversion jobs, is something that should be a lot less problematic.

In this forum I have seen a Tyranid army that was basically Ork models that had looted a Tyranid army... this kind of armies are pretty cool.

Sounds good to me! I know folks who have been modeling truescale marines for years so in my mind it's no different as long as you stay consistent with the wargear and rules.