Switch Theme:

Renegades and Heretics in 8th edition  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





So what is everyone's thoughts on the new Renegades and Heretics? I've gotten a few thoughts at first glance:

Cons:
1: We seem to be just Guard without orders, but with a covenant for all infantry. Not sure how I feel about that.
2: I'm a little bummed out that they lost the ability to really specialize the army depending on who was leading it.
3: Seems like we lost one of the things about R+H that I really liked: You start worse than guard, but can upgrade yourself to simi-guard level. This meant you could leave hellhounds at BS2, and have a cheaper tank, and things like that.

Pros:
1: We seem to be a lot stronger on the psychic front. With squads looking like they can do D6 smites easily.
2: Covenants are now free!* We can only have one army wide, but free is still good.
3: Ability to ally in Chaos forces instead of just more Imperium. (More of a fluffy pro, but still a pro in my book)

So, all that said, what do you guys think of the new Renegades and how to use them on the battlefield?


*Covenant comes as a bundle package with Renegade Commander warlord. Side effects include, death, dismemberment, your soul being sucked out of your body or results may vary.

The Eye of Night- Psst! Oi, git! Wanna buy sum waagh?
Sgt. Vanden- Oh sweet lord I just googled it...
Bobthehero-*laughs in hotshot volley rifle*  
   
Made in us
Frightening Flamer of Tzeentch




Renegades are a way for a more general Chaos army to get cheap HQ's and lascannons. Malefic Lords are crazy good but I don't think there's enough value in the R&H list to make an army that's mostly Renegades.
   
Made in it
Maddening Mutant Boss of Chaos






How are the infantry squads shaping up? Is there an easy way to get them easy morale protection? Those sigils were great last edition.

Fully Painted Armies: 1600pts Orks 1000pts Space Marines 1200pts Tau 2500pts Blood Angels 3500pts Imperial Guard/Renegades and 1700pts Daemons

And here are my blood angels tanks. They have big white eagles on them. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/424022.page  
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




I think enforcers will be needed to keep infantry blocks together (assuming they get the character keyword they obviously should have)
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





 DoomMouse wrote:
How are the infantry squads shaping up? Is there an easy way to get them easy morale protection? Those sigils were great last edition.


Captyn_Bob is right, I think Enforcers are key to keeping all your guys from running away. The sigils, while still nice, aren't in any way as good as they were last edition. But that kind of makes sense, considering there is only one morale test per turn, and being able to ignore that one test/turn would be all kinds of broken.

Now, the more I think of it, the one thing we do have over guard is the ability to put a lot of boots on the ground with a lot of special/heavy weapons in relatively few drops. Guard players have to make it one drop for every 10 guys. Of course, they could just spam conscripts, but they don't have access to special/heavy weapons. We can fill ours up with cheap weapons to just throw even more dice at the enemy. Grenade launchers (frag), and heavy bolters come to mind. If we gave the army covenant of tzeench, they overwatch just as well as they shoot, and that would be a LOT of overwatch.

On the subject of covenants:

Khorne and Slanesh: They seem to be all about close combat. Khorne is all about that extra strength when you charge, and slanesh seems to be all about getting into the charge in the first place (maybe made with footslogging in mind?)

Nurgle: A 6++ when shot at by S4 or worse? I don't know... Most things that are S4 or worse don't really have any AP anyways. So that seems to be a bit of a wash.

Tzeench: Overwatch on 5s seems great if you're going full on infantry gunline. Especially now that we can overwatch as much as we want until we are locked in combat.

What does everyone else think about the covenants?

The Eye of Night- Psst! Oi, git! Wanna buy sum waagh?
Sgt. Vanden- Oh sweet lord I just googled it...
Bobthehero-*laughs in hotshot volley rifle*  
   
Made in at
Maddening Mutant Boss of Chaos






Ah, so are infantry squads still 20 man strong? That'd be a reasonable advantage seeing as guard list their blob squads

The ability to hide 2 HWTs in a horde unit would be handy

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/28 16:26:05


Fully Painted Armies: 1600pts Orks 1000pts Space Marines 1200pts Tau 2500pts Blood Angels 3500pts Imperial Guard/Renegades and 1700pts Daemons

And here are my blood angels tanks. They have big white eagles on them. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/424022.page  
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Wow I didn't realize you could do that heavy weapon spam in the 20 man infantry squads, that fixes a lot of issues I was having with my World Eaters. My main issue was getting my enemy to over extend before slamming down my Assault Claw full of zerkers into their flank. With safe heavy weapons I can plink away at them for several turns and whittle down their defenses before the deep strikers strike. Not only that, but a few Malefic Lords behind the front lines but close enough to heroic intervention could make an amazing anti-assault force. All this and a bag of chips for 1/4 of your 2K points, sign me the feth up!

OR HELL take 20 dudes with 2 lascannons and 2-4 flamers at the front of the unit, anti-armor and anti-infantry. Your opponent will be forced to clear the unit.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/28 16:40:56


 
   
Made in us
Committed Chaos Cult Marine





Eye of Terror

 Palleus wrote:
Now, the more I think of it, the one thing we do have over guard is the ability to put a lot of boots on the ground with a lot of special/heavy weapons in relatively few drops. Guard players have to make it one drop for every 10 guys. Of course, they could just spam conscripts, but they don't have access to special/heavy weapons. We can fill ours up with cheap weapons to just throw even more dice at the enemy. Grenade launchers (frag), and heavy bolters come to mind. If we gave the army covenant of tzeench, they overwatch just as well as they shoot, and that would be a LOT of overwatch.

This is the first positive thing I heard said about Renegades and Heretics. The Tzeentch covenant makes them the ultimate anti-assault army.

   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Remember they are hitting on 5s tho. Will have to run the numbers but command squads and disciples might be more efficient.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Captyn_Bob wrote:
Remember they are hitting on 5s tho. Will have to run the numbers but command squads and disciples might be more efficient.


More efficient? Probably. But the Militia blobs will be able to protect their special/heavy weapons from death a lot more often. Wither that comes from enemy fire, or an enforcer "encouraging" the squad via bullets in the head. Losing d3 guys out of an originally 5-10 man squad risks killing the important guys a lot more than losing d3 guys out of an originally 20 man squad.

Now if we want to talk about efficiency as far as special weapons go, I think our solution is Marauders: These guys can take 2 special weapons in a squad of 5 guys (3 if you count a Chief's plasma pistol as a special weapon), they hit on 3+s, you can fit two squads in a transport (meaning 4-6 special weapons per transport), and they can get 4+ saves and krack grenades, or -1 to hitting them and +2 to cover for FREE as a bonus. These guys seem to be well worth their cheap points cost.

The Eye of Night- Psst! Oi, git! Wanna buy sum waagh?
Sgt. Vanden- Oh sweet lord I just googled it...
Bobthehero-*laughs in hotshot volley rifle*  
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





There is no militia training?

In the Grimdark future of DerpHammer40k, there are only dank memes! 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 CadianGateTroll wrote:
There is no militia training?

Nope.
On the plus side, all the tanks are borrowed from guard, so have a 4+ to hit anyway.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





How much does RH suck to IG?

In the Grimdark future of DerpHammer40k, there are only dank memes! 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





 CadianGateTroll wrote:
How much does RH suck to IG?
A lot. The only great thing about the list is using it to pad out your CSM list.
   
Made in gb
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine



UK

 andysonic1 wrote:
 CadianGateTroll wrote:
How much does RH suck to IG?
A lot. The only great thing about the list is using it to pad out your CSM list.


Pretty much. You can fit a brigade in for 566pts (3x Commanders, 3x Enforcers, 6x Militia squads, 3x mortar HWT, 3x Spawn).

 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




So we've had the FAQ.. everything is now working more or less as intended .. any more thoughts on R&H?

They didn't fix covenant of Nurgle, which is frustrating, but everything else looks OK. Things are characters which should be characters.

Some new units available (medusa, earthshaker, macharius) are these any good?

Considering using a valkyrie to assault with Ogryns. Is this viable?
   
Made in us
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine



UK

Captyn_Bob wrote:
So we've had the FAQ.. everything is now working more or less as intended .. any more thoughts on R&H?

They didn't fix covenant of Nurgle, which is frustrating, but everything else looks OK. Things are characters which should be characters.

Some new units available (medusa, earthshaker, macharius) are these any good?

Considering using a valkyrie to assault with Ogryns. Is this viable?


The Macharius give us superheavy options that are a lot cheaper than a baneblade. Personally I have a vanilla Macharius and a vanquisher, but am considering a vulcan as well.

 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




 andysonic1 wrote:
A lot. The only great thing about the list is using it to pad out your CSM list.


I'm thinking of adding a couple of units of marauders just so my Chaos army can have access to snipers.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




So three units of Ogryns means a renegade commander, loaded into three valkyries, comes to about 1000 pts.

They have the movement for a first turn charge at 29" movement. And will only need a 3 on the roll. They can charge to the other side of board if they risk taking casualties.

4 attacks each on the charge, plus more with a small risk from stimms.
Strength 6, (7on the charge with khorne) 2 dam, hitting on 3s.
Ogryn power drills are amazing as well.

Liking this. Valks done up like firefly reivers

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/18 10:28:34


 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





Toronto

Units have to disembark before the transport moves, so no first turn charge out of valkaries. You have to fly them upfield on turn 1, and then get out and charge on turn 2.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/18 16:05:54


   
Made in gb
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine



UK

 McGibs wrote:
Units have to disembark before the transport moves, so no first turn charge out of valkaries. You have to fly them upfield on turn 1, and then get out and charge on turn 2.


Grav chute insertion says otherwise.

 
   
Made in gb
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator






Are marauders prefered over disciples just for access to snipers? I'd have thought going for the 3+ heavy weapons would have been more appealing?

I'm thinking of mixing 2 or 3 ten man Disciple groups with some khorne Berserkers. Are 6 points for 10 geq bodies worth it? Maybe I should change that to 2 or 3 units of ten cultists and use the points for more heavy vehicles..

- 1250 points
Empire of the Blazing Sun (Combined Theaters)- 1950 points
FUBAR Starship Troopers- Would you like to know more?
GENERATION 9: The first time you see this, copy and paste it into your sig and add 1 to the number after generation. Consider it a social experiment.  
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





 doc1234 wrote:
Are marauders prefered over disciples just for access to snipers? I'd have thought going for the 3+ heavy weapons would have been more appealing?

I'm thinking of mixing 2 or 3 ten man Disciple groups with some khorne Berserkers. Are 6 points for 10 geq bodies worth it? Maybe I should change that to 2 or 3 units of ten cultists and use the points for more heavy vehicles..
What do you want them to do? You have Berzerkers that's fine, those are great for anti infantry and anti single large models, but the only thing that compliments them is anti-armor. You aren't taking cultists for anti-armor, and Disciple's aren't really going to be doing much anti-armor. If you just want a shield you should take Mutant Rabble, if you want heavy weapons take Havocs, if you want armored heavy weapons take tanks. I don't really see a use for Disciples at the moment.

Marauder's are an amazing sniper unit with the Stalkers special rules, but they're also just an amazing backfield secure unit due to the rule as well. It will be difficult to completely shoot them out of cover without using more guns than your opponent wants to use, and the Marauders can charge out of the cover to some effect. I'm thinking if someone drops in behind you to take an objective they are sitting on then you survive the gunfire and then special weapon or shotgun them to death. Against as assault squad dropping in you may surprise your opponent with out resilient they are. They are not like Disciples who will most likely be in larger units and scraping with the enemy.
   
Made in au
Frothing Warhound of Chaos





A bit disappointed in lack of 5+ armour or militia training on troops options. I enjoyed my army as renegade guard, not untrained rabble, and it seems that option has been taken away (troops-wise anyway, which I place a lot of import on).
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Yeah the marauders have some advantages over disciples. the cover bonus is great an they also are less vulnerable to morale.
Yes they can all vanish in one bad roll, but that's what rerolls are for.
   
Made in gb
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator






More than anything its that pre-8th I bought up a IG starter, and a box or two of other bits to do as a painting project for traitor guard (had a soft spot for them for ever but not something i'd gotten round to).

My group and I are super casual, using power levels with more of a a self imposed I guess? restriction in trying to make our various lists for things themed or fluffy. R&H is leaving me a bit lost in terms of gettting it looking nice but avoiding a list that'll get destroyed every time, while still using the models i'v got.

What about something like this?

Spoiler:

-Malefic Lord (modelled as a possessed, no dirty psykers here by khorne )

-Four units of x5 Marauders
--Stalker, Lasguns, and maybe some kind of mix of one with dual snipers, one with plasma, a group with meltas and...maybe a fourth plasma group?

-Renegade Ogryns
--2xOgryn Brutes, 1x Brute Boss

-Scout Sentinalsx3
--All three with lascannons

-Basilisk

-Russ Battle tank

-Chaos Juggerlord (or possibly a termilord? Or some kind of lord anyway.)

-Zerkersx10

-Chaos Landraider for the zerkers

-Maulerfiend


Would put me around 94pl. Possibly use the 6 points spare on more marauders maybe or something similar? With the Chaos Lord as Warlord (doing a commander for the covenant is probably better, but honestly what kind of chaos lord would follow a squishy humans orders?) It's a shame the commander and enforcers seem so useless outside of their two niche jobs.

- 1250 points
Empire of the Blazing Sun (Combined Theaters)- 1950 points
FUBAR Starship Troopers- Would you like to know more?
GENERATION 9: The first time you see this, copy and paste it into your sig and add 1 to the number after generation. Consider it a social experiment.  
   
Made in nl
Been Around the Block




Question:

Vox-caster let you pick 2D6 take the highest when determining a unit's leadership for Uncertain Worth.

However, Fanatic let's you do the same.


Do these two rules somehow stack?
   
Made in gb
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine



UK

Doctoralex wrote:
Question:

Vox-caster let you pick 2D6 take the highest when determining a unit's leadership for Uncertain Worth.

However, Fanatic let's you do the same.


Do these two rules somehow stack?


I would expect a unit with Fanatic and a Vox Caster picks the highest of 3 dice, as fanatic gives you an "additional D6".

 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Connecticut

I recently discovered this army after knowing of them throughout all of 8th, and have fallen in love with the notion of 6~ or so 30Man blobs of cultists with enforcers, backed by many, many Malefic lords.

Anyone having any success with this army so far? Any tips? This thread is quite bare, but I genuinely think there's some real potential within renegades.

Thousands upon Thousands of Tzeentch points.
I dabble in Raptors.
 
   
Made in us
Sinister Chaos Marine





I'm currently enrolled in an Escalation League with a Renegade & Heretic army. Entry is at 250pts, so I have a Renegade Commander (Tzeentch Covenant), a 15 Militia squad, and 2 Earthshakers. For this level of gaming, I don't see too many things that can't be handled. I'll be grabbing many Renegade Heavy Weapon Teams with Mortars next month when we push to 500. I think they are crazy good at 8pts per base. Should shore up my anti-infantry with the Earthshaker's handling Vehicles/Monsters/Elite infantry. Goal is to grab more infantry with Enforcers to keep bubble-wrapping my artillery as the league goes on.
   
 
Forum Index » 40K Tactics
Go to: