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It isn't a terrible option: 8pts to ignore the damage of a wound, your battlesuit could be on 5 wounds and take a wound from a 6 damage weapon then you just ignore all the wounds. It's situational but when it does kick in it's pretty good.
Ghorros wrote: The moral of the story: Don't park your Imperial Knight in a field of Gretchin carrying power tools.
Marmatag wrote: All the while, my opponent is furious, throwing his codex on the floor, trying to slash his wrists with safety scissors.
This does suck for the Tau player since it's now mortal wounds, but it was double dipping on saves before (though when I glanced at the rule, I assumed the wounds were dealt with no save to start). If you ever get a drone with more than one wound though, it can tank more than one shot even if the opponent is shooting a Lascannon because you only ever take 1 mortal wound.
As a Thousand Sons player, smiting the unbelievers and watching every drone die does make me happy, though shooting all the drones/marker lights off the board first turn should have been done first by any army.
I would suppose that shield drones would be good for guarding a character, since you could park them in front of the character and your opponent would have to attack them since they're a unit close to your hero. This would be good for an Ethereal, maybe, or an infantry hero even. You'd also be able to avoid snipers with Savior Protocol, as a bonus.
If your intention with drones is to use them as additional wounds for a Commander or something, you're better served with Gun Drones to begin with.
So they are the same as other units that can be passed wounds - whats the problem?
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
Azoqu wrote: This does suck for the Tau player since it's now mortal wounds, but it was double dipping on saves before (though when I glanced at the rule, I assumed the wounds were dealt with no save to start). If you ever get a drone with more than one wound though, it can tank more than one shot even if the opponent is shooting a Lascannon because you only ever take 1 mortal wound.
As a Thousand Sons player, smiting the unbelievers and watching every drone die does make me happy, though shooting all the drones/marker lights off the board first turn should have been done first by any army.
When I first read the saviour protocols I thought it was before the save attempt on the original target (So you'd only roll the drone's save)
I think only guardian and shield drones should have the rule though. (As the other drones should be shooting rather than acting as a shield
Mr Morden wrote: So they are the same as other units that can be passed wounds - whats the problem?
Most bodyguard type units get the chance to intercept a wound only after the unit they're guarding suffers damage, meaning after it takes a save. Drones intercept wounds after the unit they're guarding is successfully wounded, which is the term the rules use for the attacker passing their Strength vs Toughness check. So now you don't get any sort of save if you want to intercept a wound. They at least protect suits from multi-damage weapons somewhat well still, since you only lose 1 drone to intercept a lascannon shot, but shield drones are basically pointless.
So let me see if I understand the way the shield drones work now.
I shoot at a Crisis suit. Hit it. Wound it. He fails the save. A shield drone then eats the wound, right?
Or is it I hit it. Wound it, then the shield drone dies? Is a successful wound after I roll, or after he fails his save?
Edit: Reading the order in the rulebook.
3. Allocate Wounds: If an attack successfully wounds the target, the player commanding the target unit allocates the wound to any model in the unit...
so a wound is successful, before the armor save.
The FAQ seems clear to me that the new way these Drones work is you have to decide if your going to risk the armor save on your model, or just lose a drone.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/07/02 20:18:31
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
Galas wrote: Is not a nerf. Every other protective hability works this way like Honor Guard or Tyranid Hive Guard. Is just consistency.
While it may have been a move towards consistency (I'll need to check the other Xenos bodyguard abilities again to see if it actually does happen at wound allocation or after saves, as has been implied above), it was also most definitely a nerf (a reduction in the usefulness/efficiency/effectiveness with no mitigation for that reduction).
Calling it anything else would be inappropriate, IMO, unless you have a definition of nerf that differs significantly from mine.
This brings balance back, it was crazy before with tau denying ALL heavy shots with drone shieldspam giving a 3++ save to all suits within 3" until it failed its save. The player in my club kept winning all games with his drones since launch.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/02 21:33:12
Galas wrote: Is not a nerf. Every other protective hability works this way like Honor Guard or Tyranid Hive Guard. Is just consistency.
While it may have been a move towards consistency (I'll need to check the other Xenos bodyguard abilities again to see if it actually does happen at wound allocation or after saves, as has been implied above), it was also most definitely a nerf (a reduction in the usefulness/efficiency/effectiveness with no mitigation for that reduction).
Calling it anything else would be inappropriate, IMO, unless you have a definition of nerf that differs significantly from mine.
I suppose you can see it as a nerf. I see it as a bug being fixed that Drones exploited to have an advantage.
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
Galas wrote: Is not a nerf. Every other protective hability works this way like Honor Guard or Tyranid Hive Guard. Is just consistency.
While it may have been a move towards consistency (I'll need to check the other Xenos bodyguard abilities again to see if it actually does happen at wound allocation or after saves, as has been implied above), it was also most definitely a nerf (a reduction in the usefulness/efficiency/effectiveness with no mitigation for that reduction).
Calling it anything else would be inappropriate, IMO, unless you have a definition of nerf that differs significantly from mine.
I suppose you can see it as a nerf. I see it as a bug being fixed that Drones exploited to have an advantage.
But what was buggy about it?
You allocated wounds before saves, so no matter one, there was only one to-wound roll (against the battlesuit) and one potential save roll (against either the drone OR the battlesuit/infantry, but never both).
It effectively gave Drones that intercepted wounds the toughness of the unit they're protecting, but that actually used to be a feature of the Tau codex - bug seems a strong word to use for such an effect.
Brutallica wrote: This brings balance back, it was crazy before with tau denying ALL heavy shots with drone shieldspam giving a 3++ save to all suits within 3" until it failed its save. The player in my club kept winning all games with his drones since launch.
Standard Shield Drones only have a 4++. If he was rolling 3++ on all his drones he was cheating.
It is strange that GW are changing this. Shield drones have always provided ablative wounds that survived 50% of the incoming fire. It appears that the shield drones are now functionally redundant, as gun drones have the same abilty and carry two pulse carbines.
Only Shadowsun has access to the 3++ drone.
Most of my drones get cleared away by bolter or lasgun fire in the first turn or two, leaving heavy weapons open to kill the suits.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/02 21:59:18
Galas wrote: Is not a nerf. Every other protective hability works this way like Honor Guard or Tyranid Hive Guard. Is just consistency.
While it may have been a move towards consistency (I'll need to check the other Xenos bodyguard abilities again to see if it actually does happen at wound allocation or after saves, as has been implied above), it was also most definitely a nerf (a reduction in the usefulness/efficiency/effectiveness with no mitigation for that reduction).
Calling it anything else would be inappropriate, IMO, unless you have a definition of nerf that differs significantly from mine.
I suppose you can see it as a nerf. I see it as a bug being fixed that Drones exploited to have an advantage.
But what was buggy about it?
You allocated wounds before saves, so no matter one, there was only one to-wound roll (against the battlesuit) and one potential save roll (against either the drone OR the battlesuit/infantry, but never both).
It effectively gave Drones that intercepted wounds the toughness of the unit they're protecting, but that actually used to be a feature of the Tau codex - bug seems a strong word to use for such an effect.
Every other "protecting" effect that I have seen has been something like "In a roll of 4+ the wound to the protected unit is saved but this unit takes a mortal wound".
Saves or no saves are irrelevant because Drones take just direct mortal wounds like everyone else.
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
Galas wrote: Is not a nerf. Every other protective hability works this way like Honor Guard or Tyranid Hive Guard. Is just consistency.
While it may have been a move towards consistency (I'll need to check the other Xenos bodyguard abilities again to see if it actually does happen at wound allocation or after saves, as has been implied above), it was also most definitely a nerf (a reduction in the usefulness/efficiency/effectiveness with no mitigation for that reduction).
Calling it anything else would be inappropriate, IMO, unless you have a definition of nerf that differs significantly from mine.
I suppose you can see it as a nerf. I see it as a bug being fixed that Drones exploited to have an advantage.
But what was buggy about it?
You allocated wounds before saves, so no matter one, there was only one to-wound roll (against the battlesuit) and one potential save roll (against either the drone OR the battlesuit/infantry, but never both).
It effectively gave Drones that intercepted wounds the toughness of the unit they're protecting, but that actually used to be a feature of the Tau codex - bug seems a strong word to use for such an effect.
Every other "protecting" effect that I have seen has been something like "In a roll of 4+ the wound to the protected unit is saved but this unit takes a mortal wound".
Saves or no saves are irrelevant because Drones take just direct mortal wounds like everyone else.
Well, let's actually take a look at other bodyguard-esque effects (the ones giving out mortal wounds to the bodyguard, like our drones are now) and see if they allow the original model to take a save or not - that's relevant because one provides the potential for mitigation of the incoming fire (through normal saves, invulnerable saves, etc.) and the other does not. That's a relevant when comparing different bodyguard mechanics for consistency, I think we can all agree?
Crisis Bodyguards: "Roll a D6 each time a friendly <Sept> Character loses a wound..." Looks like the character has to lose the wound first, which means they must have had a chance to make applicable saves (and failed those saves).
Well, that doesn't support your theory at all that Drones are merely becoming on par with other bodyguards at all!
Maybe we'll find it in another race's codex.
Tyrant Guard:
"Roll a dice each time a friendly <Hive Fleet> Hive Tyrant loses a wound..." Uh oh, same thing here. Tyrant had a chance to mitigate damage through saves, in a way that Tau with drones do not.
I know, let's consult the Genestealer Cult, they've got bodyguard qualities.
"Each time a Genestealer Cults Character loses a wound..." Same thing here.
But when in doubt, look for special snowflake rules in the Astartes section of the rules, amirite?
Space Marine Honor Guard:
"Roll a d6 each time a friendly <Chapter> Character loses a wound..." Oh dear, oh dear.
Honestly, I haven't found an instance of the bodyguard rule, except the T'au Drone after this errata, that doesn't provide the initial target at least the chance to make (and fail) saves.
And that's a nerf, beyond what's appropriate to bring Drones back into consistency with other bodyguards, because the mechanics go BEYOND other bodyguard mechanics in mitigating the potential incoming damage.
Whether its balanced post nerf is an entirely separate discussion, but trying to suggest it isn't a nerf because it brings the targetted unit into greater consistency with other bodyguards (and in terms of relative chance at mitigation, it doesn't, as I've explained) is just sophistry.
Edit: Call it balanced, call it unbalanced, call it totally-not-nerfed-because-I-don't-like-that-phrase-for-some-reason, but whatever else you do, take a look at how Savior Protocols works now, and understand it has two qualities, one unique and one semi-unique, that set it apart from every other bodyguard mechanic I've seen in the game.
The semi-unique quality is only unique for being more "accurate" (not X+ roll to see if the wound is transferred or not), which is already accounted for in differences between other bodyguard units (from 2+ to 4+ to probably other rolls, I'd bet, if I had half an hour to look through the books).
The truly unique quality is that the target doesn't get a chance to save before wounds are passed along.
In comparison to the old rules, where the only truly unique quality was who rolled saves (rather than whether saves were rolled or not), you're gonna have an uphill battle convincing me that the old rules deviated more from consistency than the new rules.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/02 22:57:28
Haechi wrote: This nerf honestly feels like a mistake. Like.. we'll have it fixed in a FAQ for the FAQ.
How so? They still have a purpose, its just not a win button anymore.
Gun Drones still have a purpose, and are probably still among the MVPs of the Tau Index.
Shield Drones have no discernible purpose now that isn't easily avoided through an opponent not playing like an imbecile.
Shield Drones need changes after this FAQ if they are to be worth their points, because as is, the Gun drone can do everything important a Shield Drone can do, but can ALSO put out firepower that puts Firewarriors to shame.
I'm not going to say the sky is falling regarding our drones (i wasn't planning on throwing non-rending attacks onto the drones unless they were protecting Ethereals or similar vulnerable Characters anyway, given the battlesuits tend to be far more durable against that sort of firepower and can soak up wounds without losing as much firepower), because I don't think it is.
But to say that Shield Drones are in a good place, or even a reasonable place, or in any place other than Practically Useless in Every Way place, is to not understand what the nerf did to Savior Protocols.
Haechi wrote: This nerf honestly feels like a mistake. Like.. we'll have it fixed in a FAQ for the FAQ.
How so? They still have a purpose, its just not a win button anymore.
Gun Drones still have a purpose, and are probably still among the MVPs of the Tau Index.
Shield Drones have no discernible purpose now that isn't easily avoided through an opponent not playing like an imbecile.
Shield Drones need changes after this FAQ if they are to be worth their points, because as is, the Gun drone can do everything important a Shield Drone can do, but can ALSO put out firepower that puts Firewarriors to shame.
I'm not going to say the sky is falling regarding our drones (i wasn't planning on throwing non-rending attacks onto the drones unless they were protecting Ethereals or similar vulnerable Characters anyway, given the battlesuits tend to be far more durable against that sort of firepower and can soak up wounds without losing as much firepower), because I don't think it is.
But to say that Shield Drones are in a good place, or even a reasonable place, or in any place other than Practically Useless in Every Way place, is to not understand what the nerf did to Savior Protocols.
My riptide just got nailed by 5 melta guns. Oh look, there is 4 shield drones right here. Now I only got hit by 1 melta gun.
Haechi wrote: This nerf honestly feels like a mistake. Like.. we'll have it fixed in a FAQ for the FAQ.
How so? They still have a purpose, its just not a win button anymore.
Gun Drones still have a purpose, and are probably still among the MVPs of the Tau Index.
Shield Drones have no discernible purpose now that isn't easily avoided through an opponent not playing like an imbecile.
Shield Drones need changes after this FAQ if they are to be worth their points, because as is, the Gun drone can do everything important a Shield Drone can do, but can ALSO put out firepower that puts Firewarriors to shame.
I'm not going to say the sky is falling regarding our drones (i wasn't planning on throwing non-rending attacks onto the drones unless they were protecting Ethereals or similar vulnerable Characters anyway, given the battlesuits tend to be far more durable against that sort of firepower and can soak up wounds without losing as much firepower), because I don't think it is.
But to say that Shield Drones are in a good place, or even a reasonable place, or in any place other than Practically Useless in Every Way place, is to not understand what the nerf did to Savior Protocols.
I wish my lords could have drones buzzing around doing 3++ and 4++ saves, its still a good uitility for commanders that are out in the field. I dont see how granting a stormshield 3++ to all suits within 3" (with wounds that never carry over) for 11 points becomes remotely fair.
Seeing a tau army (shadowsun static gunline) just save everything from the first turn of a IG tank army loosing a couple of drones, and then pop units left and right in return. That is just crazy.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/02 23:33:55
My riptide just got nailed by 5 melta guns. Oh look, there is 4 shield drones right here. Now I only got hit by 1 melta gun.
Still seems to me like they have a use.
He didn't say drones are useless, but that shield drones are useless. They don't give anything extra compared to gun drones for the same price. Or in other Word: Why should I ever take a shield drone instead of a gun drone? If you can't come up with an reason, that's the reason why shield drones are useless and either need a buff in rules or a point reduction.
Haechi wrote: This nerf honestly feels like a mistake. Like.. we'll have it fixed in a FAQ for the FAQ.
How so? They still have a purpose, its just not a win button anymore.
Gun Drones still have a purpose, and are probably still among the MVPs of the Tau Index.
Shield Drones have no discernible purpose now that isn't easily avoided through an opponent not playing like an imbecile.
Shield Drones need changes after this FAQ if they are to be worth their points, because as is, the Gun drone can do everything important a Shield Drone can do, but can ALSO put out firepower that puts Firewarriors to shame.
I'm not going to say the sky is falling regarding our drones (i wasn't planning on throwing non-rending attacks onto the drones unless they were protecting Ethereals or similar vulnerable Characters anyway, given the battlesuits tend to be far more durable against that sort of firepower and can soak up wounds without losing as much firepower), because I don't think it is.
But to say that Shield Drones are in a good place, or even a reasonable place, or in any place other than Practically Useless in Every Way place, is to not understand what the nerf did to Savior Protocols.
My riptide just got nailed by 5 melta guns. Oh look, there is 4 shield drones right here. Now I only got hit by 1 melta gun.
Still seems to me like they have a use.
Replace those Shield Drones with Gun Drones. What did you lose? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Those Gun Drones worked no differently as ablative wounds. What did you gain? MORE DAKKA THAN A GODDAMN FIRE WARRIOR. 2 Pulse Carbines, even fired at the Drone's BS, is still a massive output of firepower.
When one thing has absolutely NO benefit over another option, and the other option has significant benefits over the first option, would you say that the two options are balanced?
Haechi wrote: This nerf honestly feels like a mistake. Like.. we'll have it fixed in a FAQ for the FAQ.
How so? They still have a purpose, its just not a win button anymore.
Gun Drones still have a purpose, and are probably still among the MVPs of the Tau Index.
Shield Drones have no discernible purpose now that isn't easily avoided through an opponent not playing like an imbecile.
Shield Drones need changes after this FAQ if they are to be worth their points, because as is, the Gun drone can do everything important a Shield Drone can do, but can ALSO put out firepower that puts Firewarriors to shame.
I'm not going to say the sky is falling regarding our drones (i wasn't planning on throwing non-rending attacks onto the drones unless they were protecting Ethereals or similar vulnerable Characters anyway, given the battlesuits tend to be far more durable against that sort of firepower and can soak up wounds without losing as much firepower), because I don't think it is.
But to say that Shield Drones are in a good place, or even a reasonable place, or in any place other than Practically Useless in Every Way place, is to not understand what the nerf did to Savior Protocols.
I wish my lords could have drones buzzing around doing 3++ and 4++ saves, its still a good uitility for commanders that are out in the field. I dont see how granting a stormshield 3++ to all suits within 3" (with wounds that never carry over) for 11 points becomes remotely fair.
Seeing a tau army (shadowsun static gunline) just save everything from the first turn of a IG tank army loosing a couple of drones, and then pop units left and right in return. That is just crazy.
Those Drones can (and for god's sake, SHOULD) be targetted as the independent units that they are. In the game of 8eWH40k, where T4/3+ is ubiquitous for cheap, infantry and their anti-infantry weapons are spammable and encouraged to be spammed... how could you find it so inescapably impossible to destroy a 2 or 3 model unit that is T4/3++? Get six S4 hits on it, and you'll kill a shield drone. Get another 6, kill the other. Suddenly there's no 3++ save that every unit everywhere is using without getting destroyed (there being an absolute maximum of 2 in existence in any given army).
The 4++ drones are even easier to get rid of than the extremely rare 3++ shield drones, with only 4 S4 hits needed per kill (the same number it takes to kill Gun Drones, by and by, which you should also be killing before aiming large weapons that can get intercepted at targets within 3" of drone units... y'know, basic tactics when dealing with bodyguards - kill the bodyguard with weapons that are efficient to kill the bodyguard, then kill the target with weapons IT is vulnerable to after the bodyguards are dead.
Look, I'm not adverse to rebalancing Savior Protocols (EDIT: To make it even more clear, I'm fine with the change to Mortal Wounds, though I wish they'd be after a failed save like every other bodyguard unit in the game that I'm aware of), but Shield Drones need something that make them more than paperweights that you wish you could be proxying as Gun Drones, and waxing poetic (without a lot of the most important context) does not negate the fact that Shield Drones need something to make them worthwhile to bring.
We don't want more "No reason to take Burst Cannons on Hammerheads" situations, because each choice should be a meaningful choice balanced for its point cost, not made basically meaningless because a few players didn't realize that you don't shoot rending weapons at targets until their shield drone escorts are killed (and those escorts are quite vulnerable to small arms fire, not even able to get Cover unless obscured).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/03 00:01:45
What non-Tau players are missing is that there is now no reason to take shield over gun drones. Most Tau players were loading up on gun drones, this will just make that a no-brainer.
Haechi wrote: This nerf honestly feels like a mistake. Like.. we'll have it fixed in a FAQ for the FAQ.
How so? They still have a purpose, its just not a win button anymore.
Gun Drones still have a purpose, and are probably still among the MVPs of the Tau Index.
Shield Drones have no discernible purpose now that isn't easily avoided through an opponent not playing like an imbecile.
Shield Drones need changes after this FAQ if they are to be worth their points, because as is, the Gun drone can do everything important a Shield Drone can do, but can ALSO put out firepower that puts Firewarriors to shame.
I'm not going to say the sky is falling regarding our drones (i wasn't planning on throwing non-rending attacks onto the drones unless they were protecting Ethereals or similar vulnerable Characters anyway, given the battlesuits tend to be far more durable against that sort of firepower and can soak up wounds without losing as much firepower), because I don't think it is.
But to say that Shield Drones are in a good place, or even a reasonable place, or in any place other than Practically Useless in Every Way place, is to not understand what the nerf did to Savior Protocols.
My riptide just got nailed by 5 melta guns. Oh look, there is 4 shield drones right here. Now I only got hit by 1 melta gun.
Still seems to me like they have a use.
Replace those Shield Drones with Gun Drones. What did you lose? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Those Gun Drones worked no differently as ablative wounds. What did you gain? MORE DAKKA THAN A GODDAMN FIRE WARRIOR. 2 Pulse Carbines, even fired at the Drone's BS, is still a massive output of firepower.
When one thing has absolutely NO benefit over another option, and the other option has significant benefits over the first option, would you say that the two options are balanced?
Haechi wrote: This nerf honestly feels like a mistake. Like.. we'll have it fixed in a FAQ for the FAQ.
How so? They still have a purpose, its just not a win button anymore.
Gun Drones still have a purpose, and are probably still among the MVPs of the Tau Index.
Shield Drones have no discernible purpose now that isn't easily avoided through an opponent not playing like an imbecile.
Shield Drones need changes after this FAQ if they are to be worth their points, because as is, the Gun drone can do everything important a Shield Drone can do, but can ALSO put out firepower that puts Firewarriors to shame.
I'm not going to say the sky is falling regarding our drones (i wasn't planning on throwing non-rending attacks onto the drones unless they were protecting Ethereals or similar vulnerable Characters anyway, given the battlesuits tend to be far more durable against that sort of firepower and can soak up wounds without losing as much firepower), because I don't think it is.
But to say that Shield Drones are in a good place, or even a reasonable place, or in any place other than Practically Useless in Every Way place, is to not understand what the nerf did to Savior Protocols.
I wish my lords could have drones buzzing around doing 3++ and 4++ saves, its still a good uitility for commanders that are out in the field. I dont see how granting a stormshield 3++ to all suits within 3" (with wounds that never carry over) for 11 points becomes remotely fair.
Seeing a tau army (shadowsun static gunline) just save everything from the first turn of a IG tank army loosing a couple of drones, and then pop units left and right in return. That is just crazy.
Those Drones can (and for god's sake, SHOULD) be targetted as the independent units that they are. In the game of 8eWH40k, where T4/3+ is ubiquitous for cheap, infantry and their anti-infantry weapons are spammable and encouraged to be spammed... how could you find it so inescapably impossible to destroy a 2 or 3 model unit that is T4/3++? Get six S4 hits on it, and you'll kill a shield drone. Get another 6, kill the other. Suddenly there's no 3++ save that every unit everywhere is using without getting destroyed (there being an absolute maximum of 2 in existence in any given army).
The 4++ drones are even easier to get rid of than the extremely rare 3++ shield drones, with only 4 S4 hits needed per kill (the same number it takes to kill Gun Drones, by and by, which you should also be killing before aiming large weapons that can get intercepted at targets within 3" of drone units... y'know, basic tactics when dealing with bodyguards - kill the bodyguard with weapons that are efficient to kill the bodyguard, then kill the target with weapons IT is vulnerable to after the bodyguards are dead.
Look, I'm not adverse to rebalancing Savior Protocols (EDIT: To make it even more clear, I'm fine with the change to Mortal Wounds, though I wish they'd be after a failed save like every other bodyguard unit in the game that I'm aware of), but Shield Drones need something that make them more than paperweights that you wish you could be proxying as Gun Drones, and waxing poetic (without a lot of the most important context) does not negate the fact that Shield Drones need something to make them worthwhile to bring.
We don't want more "No reason to take Burst Cannons on Hammerheads" situations, because each choice should be a meaningful choice balanced for its point cost, not made basically meaningless because a few players didn't realize that you don't shoot rending weapons at targets until their shield drone escorts are killed (and those escorts are quite vulnerable to small arms fire, not even able to get Cover unless obscured).
I get what you are saying with the right tool for the right job and eliminate the drones first.
1. You have to get in range with the small arms fire, can be extremely hard with waves of cheap kroot screening the army and the important targets being backline.
2. You have to make sure there is enough small arms to hit and wound sucessfully, and hope the drones dosent roll 3's for days, that is not impossible, and a little help from a command roll can potentially secure another streak
3. The drones can be tugged away behind a wall out of LOS
They were not easely countered.
They still have their use for protecting commanders after this FAQ
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/03 00:11:52
I'm not surprised Xenos get nerfed - Never forget that you're not a Space Marine, and in the eyes of GW, this means you get nothing.
Now Shield Drones are the only units that actively deny armor saves being attempted before re-allocating the wound; which doesn't make sense - and if this IS intentional, it should be reflected across all other faction's bodyguards.
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