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So a little while ago GW said there would not be codexes in 8th edition

Now we have indexes which are simple, relatively cheap and combine multiple armies in one book (a bit like the old 3rd ed rulebook)

So why are GW releasing codexes? I cant think of anything these codexes will add other than potentially bringing back the old gak from 7th ed- fractured rulesets and faction specific formations.

Or will they just be fluff and pretty pictures

GW will make money with them?
What more reason do they need?

Mordian2016 wrote:
So a little while ago GW said there would not be codexes in 8th edition

Did they? I don't recall reading that - Where was it said?

They never said Codexes weren't returning, just that'd be a little while till they would start coming. As far as I know, no, formations aren't coming back, the new books will have different ways of building your armies, like in the current rulebook/indexes. It'll have some other stuff return to that's missing... Chapter Tactics, Legion Tactics, etc., most likely.

No, they didn't say there would be no more codexes, that's total nonsense.

Codexes are required because the indexes are just a stop gap between having 7th and 8th.

Codexes will include
- New stratagems
- Relics
- Unique psychic powers
- New formations/detachments that reflect the fluff of the force
- Tons of fluff
- Painting guides.

If you want to see what the new SM codex will look like, go and look at the new AOS Stormcast Eternals Battletome

What's weird is that the primaris character rules refer to codex: space marine, while the WD hints at index: astartes.
Do you think index:astartes will be a book that contain multiple codex? It seems a bit strange, especially since Index: imperium 1 is basically index: astartes

The Index Astartes always has been a different book and not a codex and it's an old thing that used to be in the White Dwarfs of old to. (It usually was all about info on certain spacemarine chapters.)

 The Grumpy Eldar wrote:
The Index Astartes always has been a different book and not a codex and it's an old thing that used to be in the White Dwarfs of old to. (It usually was all about info on certain spacemarine chapters.)

Now that you mention it, I remember reading that in WD a long time ago (it's been a while since I've read a WD).
You're most certainly right, index astartes must be completely unrelated to the rules.

Ah ok my mistake, perhaps it was part of the rumour mill.

So it seems to me codexes are bringing back all the gak from 7th. What a shame


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Silentz wrote:
No, they didn't say there would be no more codexes, that's total nonsense.

Codexes are required because the indexes are just a stop gap between having 7th and 8th.

Codexes will include
- New stratagems
- Relics
- Unique psychic powers
- New formations/detachments that reflect the fluff of the force
- Tons of fluff
- Painting guides.

If you want to see what the new SM codex will look like, go and look at the new AOS Stormcast Eternals Battletome

I really hope this is not the case

They've actually said there'll be no Formations at all and it was mentioned there'd be no new Detachments. Of course they might change their mind... but for now they aren't going to be a thing.

New Stratagems are going to be in them.
Unique psychic powers are already a thing, and there's no reason to not reprint them in the codexes (or expand them to being 6 powers long like in AoS).
Given AoS has its own version of Relics, I'd imagine 40k will continue to have them.
The recent AoS tomes have had fluff and even painting guides (in the case of the Sky Dwarves).
The rulebook also hints there'll be unqiue Warlord Traits.

Psychic bloat was one of the worst and most time consuming elements to 7th. I really hope they keep it simple.

Mordian2016 wrote:
Psychic bloat was one of the worst and most time consuming elements to 7th. I really hope they keep it simple.

True, but given the Matched Play "rule of one power per battle round per army" there probably needs to be a bit more variety for psychic heavy armies.

Mordian2016 wrote:
Psychic bloat was one of the worst and most time consuming elements to 7th. I really hope they keep it simple.

Given that 7ths Warp Charge Dice system is thankfully dead and buried I don't think thats going to be a problem, even a Tzeenth army would be able to get through it's powers much quicker now.

If "Formations" do return in any form, I'm just hoping it's not in the rather open-ended way that some of them were.

For example, small bonuses for taking fluffy force organizations, such as a proper Space Marine strike force, with strict unit requirements. Something like NEEDING two ten-man devastators two ten-man tacticals, two ten-man assault squads and a specfic captain to get a "Company bonus." Equivalents could be found in other factions.

Best case scenario, no new Detatchments or special 'formations' to avoid starting the nonsense from 7th. Keep it down to Chapter/Regiment/Warband/Dynasty rules.

I really hope that Codices don't change anything at all from the Indexes (aside from maybe points adjustments)
I really like having all the rules for my armies in 1-2 books only for only $25 each. Even better that all my enemies rules are in 4-5 books only.

There are enough detachment choices, no need for more
There are enough Psychic powers. Expanding each existing table to 6 powers would be fine, but hardly necessary. Building an army to be Psychic heavy shouldn't be a thing (and this is coming from an Eldar/Daemon player)
The only thing Codices should be adding are Relics, army specific Strategems (like max of 2-3 only) and "Chapter Tactics/Legion rules"
Given that all armies now have <keyword> faction names, it would be really easy to add a simple rule for taking a specific Chapter/Legion. And not just for Marines, but <Craftworlds>, <Hive Fleets>, <T'au Sept>, <Ork Clans>, etc

Again though, a SIMPLE rule. If GW goes overboard on this point, 8E may turn into just as complicated a mess as 7E.

-

 Imateria wrote:

Mordian2016 wrote:
Psychic bloat was one of the worst and most time consuming elements to 7th. I really hope they keep it simple.

Given that 7ths Warp Charge Dice system is thankfully dead and buried I don't think thats going to be a problem, even a Tzeenth army would be able to get through it's powers much quicker now.

Takes me less time to smite 15 times than someone to shoot all their guns.

Mordian2016 wrote:
So a little while ago GW said there would not be codexes in 8th edition

Sauce? Also, GW have lied to us many times before.

Now we have indexes which are simple, relatively cheap and combine multiple armies in one book (a bit like the old 3rd ed rulebook)
So why are GW releasing codexes? I cant think of anything these codexes will add other than potentially bringing back the old gak from 7th ed- fractured rulesets and faction specific formations.
Or will they just be fluff and pretty pictures

I would prefer it if GW took the time to update the armies at the same time via Index, and then release fluff-dexes.

Despite the greater expense this would likely be to me, I'd damn well pay for it.

But GW is shortsighted and impulsive. I cannot see a reason they wouldn't bend to shareholder pressure and make short-term money grabs like all of last ed.

 Galef wrote:
I really hope that Codices don't change anything at all from the Indexes (aside from maybe points adjustments)
I really like having all the rules for my armies in 1-2 books only for only $25 each. Even better that all my enemies rules are in 4-5 books only.

There are enough detachment choices, no need for more
There are enough Psychic powers. Expanding each existing table to 6 powers would be fine, but hardly necessary. Building an army to be Psychic heavy shouldn't be a thing (and this is coming from an Eldar/Daemon player)
The only thing Codices should be adding are Relics, army specific Strategems (like max of 2-3 only) and "Chapter Tactics/Legion rules"
Given that all armies now have <keyword> faction names, it would be really easy to add a simple rule for taking a specific Chapter/Legion. And not just for Marines, but <Craftworlds>, <Hive Fleets>, <T'au Sept>, <Ork Clans>, etc

Again though, a SIMPLE rule. If GW goes overboard on this point, 8E may turn into just as complicated a mess as 7E.

-

I can tell you never played 3rd ed when it came out. This is literally the same situation we are in now, except GW are cheeky enough to charge for the rules they included free at the back of the BRB in 3rd. I mean, yeah we get actual special rules this time around instead of just statlines, but still.

The indexes are a slapdash "Please don't quit because we are too lazy to actually release all the rules at once" solution, nothing more.

I am not looking forward to the codex releases, at all. One of the best things they did for 8th was simplify the faction rules and put them all out at the same time, in books that are actually affordable and contain rules for a ton of models. Since I'm 100% sure they will do it anyway, I am hoping they at least decouple point costs from the codex releases.

After playing GW games since the 90s, I can't think of a time aside from a few years in WFB after 6th dropped that they handled armbook releases well. It's always such a mess, and the system means once it drops, you're stuck for years and years (sometimes forever) with a book that could be 100% better with just a few little tweaks.

The key question is: when the first Codex comes out, will it massively overpower the beneficiary? That will set the precedent for future codexes to break / not break game balance...

dosiere wrote:
I am not looking forward to the codex releases, at all. One of the best things they did for 8th was simplify the faction rules and put them all out at the same time, in books that are actually affordable and contain rules for a ton of models. Since I'm 100% sure they will do it anyway, I am hoping they at least decouple point costs from the codex releases.

After playing GW games since the 90s, I can't think of a time aside from a few years in WFB after 6th dropped that they handled armbook releases well. It's always such a mess, and the system means once it drops, you're stuck for years and years (sometimes forever) with a book that could be 100% better with just a few little tweaks.

GW apparently promised faster errata/points balancing changes this time around. Let's see if they keep their word.

Codex was never leaving. That was another bit of garbage rumor mongering.

What I do expect is that codex will be much more powerful than index list. And that means those factions that never receive a codex are going to quickly get pwned.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/05/your-codex-is-coming-july-5gw-homepage-post-1/

Quite excited to see that others than Chaos Marines and Loyalist Marines are getting they version of chapter tactics/sub faction rules.

I would actually be fine with it if 40k used formations the same way Age of Sigmar does.

As an example: a Sylvaneth Household battalion consists of one treelord, one unit of tree revenants, and one branchwych. You pay the points costs of those units per normal, and you get a little bonus in that enemies in combat with them can't retreat. You pay an additional 20 points on top of the costs of the units in order to take them in this formation.

A Gnarlroot Wargrove battalion is a formation of formations, at its core is one household battalion (except with a treelord ancient instead of regular treelord), it costs 80 points on top of the costs of the units and the household battalion and confers a little casting buff and a regeneration spell.

So all-in-all I've spent 100 points on a nice buff to certain spellcasters and a useful but situational spell, and the opportunity to take an additional relic (which confers a less extravagant bonus than the 7th Ed 40k relics)

beast_gts wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/05/your-codex-is-coming-july-5gw-homepage-post-1/

What format will the new codexes be in?
These codexes will be available in a hardback format to match your new Warhammer 40,000 book.

So no epub for codexes?

Why cant they just update the index online pdf?

It would be pretty dang foolish of them not to do some sort of digital release

 CadianGateTroll wrote:
Why cant they just update the index online pdf?

Because:
1) They don't sell PDFs, they sell epubs.
2) The indexes don't have fluff or other extra bits.
3) They want to not repeat as much as possible the total clusterfeth of 7th where you needed 73 books and a literal library of index cards to get though a Psychic phase.
4) Selling books is profitable and they need to nickle and dime us as much as they can because more people are realising that buying 50p worth of plastic for £50 is a rip off.

 CadianGateTroll wrote:
Why cant they just update the index online pdf?

Possibly because they've realised that even if they release a cheaper electronic version of an already cheap book, people will still pirate it.