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Made in us
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This conversion is meant to remove the IGOUGO system from the 40K game and to better facilitate player interaction by blending into 8th Edition 40K the Action/Reaction system of Beyond the Gates of Antares.

All points, unit and weapon values are from 8th Edition 40k rules.

For any rules not found in this conversion, refer to the 8th Edition 40K rules.

The Basic version removes the battlefield command friction simulated by Beyond the Gates of Antares.
Orders and Reactions don’t require Leadership tests and the Morale rules from 8th Edition 40K replace Break tests.
It uses the D6 instead of the Advanced version’s D12 so the system has been been simplified and the Pins mechanic is removed.

Units will do, what you want them to do, when you want them to do it.

(Basic) Gates of 40K ...Latest version: 13.08.17
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6WslP6gUlpEeFBQVm44ajNaSWs

(Advanced) Gates of 40K...Latest version: 10.10.17
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6WslP6gUlpERXFTM3F3QV8tVkE

This message was edited 10 times. Last update was at 2017/10/11 01:04:07


 
   
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Oozing Plague Marine Terminator




In My Lab

This makes modifiers half as useful. Also, if you're gonna go to d12, might as well actually rewrite some stats-Avatars of Khaine, for instance, should probably still hit on a 2+.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
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 JNAProductions wrote:
This makes modifiers half as useful. Also, if you're gonna go to d12, might as well actually rewrite some stats-Avatars of Khaine, for instance, should probably still hit on a 2+.


The modifiers in Antares, especially cover and terrain, are much more detailed than 8th's. A Marine hitting on 6+ could be facing anywhere from a -1 to -3 to the hit roll depending on the target's cover plus further penalties if firing through intervening obstacles such as light woods or other units. The number of pins on units can effect the dice rolls, as well. The d12 gives more granularity.

Though we haven't tried Eldar with these rules, an Avatar of Khaine hits on a 4+ using the d12. Plenty skilled, still.

   
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In My Lab

So he hits on a 4-12? And misses on a 1-3? You just made him less accurate.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in kr
Veteran Inquisitorial Tyranid Xenokiller






your mind

 JNAProductions wrote:
So he hits on a 4-12? And misses on a 1-3? You just made him less accurate.


I wonder how this compares to other units after they are transcribed?

Frankly, I wonder why GW just doesn't offer at least two sets of rules, basic and advanced.
Basic if 40k lite, AoS-ified 'easy to learn, hard to master' - a boardgame, really -
and advanced rules with more granularity - a battlefield simulation/rpg.

Seems that they may take a hard fork going forward.
And, split off from 40k origins permanently.
At that point, I expect there will be a secondary market open up for the 40k equivalent of the 9th Age.
And, at that point, I would expect systems like the 9th Age to feel a bit of a boost.
Once GW alienates enough established people with brains and mature incomes,
outside of the streaming computer game segment,
well... They are just the model company that airs battle reports with weird boardgame rules at the end of the day.


   
Made in gb
Lieutenant Colonel




@Mithras001.
So you took rules written specifically for modern war games , and modern based units,(That have been about for years.)
And used them with the modern warfare based units found in 40k.

(And found out what GW plc failed to see for the last 20 years.
Rules based on Napoleonic massed rank warfare (WHFB ) are an unsuitable base for a a company to battalion level 40k war game. )

What sort of game scale can you get to with these rules before the detail bogs the game down?

(In my limited experience I found BTGOA and Konflict 47 more suited to large skrmish games, than the massive battle games 7th ed 40k tried to push.)

   
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Potent Possessed Daemonvessel





A straight doubling of stats makes everything less accurate, but at the same time makes their saves worse.

A straight doubling makes things 8.3% worse across the board.

If you wanted to say more accurate you could just map to equivalent probabilities so (essentially P(N+) * 12)

2+ = 3+
3+ = 5+
4+ = 7+
5+ = 9+
6+ = 11+

I understand not wanting to re-write the whole game, but on some level you are missing out on some of the benefit from the D12.
   
Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User




While true that simply doubling the stats makes everything 8% worse we feel it's a decent trade off for the simplicity of it. Really, when rolling scores of d12s it's not felt at all.

@Lanrak
We've played games upwards of 1500 points with differing force compositions and saw no noticeable drag. While the action/reaction system keeps both players engaged at all times, the game's detail at no point reaches the level of 2nd edition.
   
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Horrific Hive Tyrant






I never played btgoa. I just did some digging on it. Few questions.

What are you using in place of agility for these agility tests?

How are you determining which units can be issued multiple orders?

How are you handling movement? They have predetermined move values in btgoa. But 40k has the often higher m values. Are hormagaunts moving 8" standard 16" fast 4 slow?

How do you intend to handle synapse with pins?


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/22 08:40:20


   
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 Lance845 wrote:
I never played btgoa. I just did some digging on it. Few questions.

What are you using in place of agility for these agility tests?

How are you determining which units can be issued multiple orders?

How are you handling movement? They have predetermined move values in btgoa. But 40k has the often higher m values. Are hormagaunts moving 8" standard 16" fast 4 slow?

How do you intend to handle synapse with pins?




1) We don't use the Agility tests.

2) Another of the the bits we don't use.

3) The movement rules we went with was just the Advance order (base Movement stat from 8th) and the Run order (twice movement). Incidentally, that means no random charge distances.

4) Synapse allows the auto pass of morale tests so pins would have no effect on those tests. Any pins would, of course, come into play when attempting to activate the unit.

When doing the conversion, we stuck with the rules that most closely matched the base 40K system. We didn't want to rewrite whole swaths to try to cram it into BtGoA or vice versa.
   
Made in us
Horrific Hive Tyrant






2 more questions. How do reserves work for the purpose of issuing orders?

How do transports work for embarking/disembarking orders?

So just to make sure I understand what is needed to play this version.

-2 sets of command dice with 1 for every unit.
-2+d6 for manifesting/denying psychic powers and rolling variable damages/random pin removal.
-1d10 for leadership tests.
-bucketloads of d12s for shooting attacking and what not.
-some amount of pin markers. I am assuming you would need maybe 15-20 per army for 1500-2k games? Just a guess?

   
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 Lance845 wrote:
2 more questions. How do reserves work for the purpose of issuing orders?

How do transports work for embarking/disembarking orders?

So just to make sure I understand what is needed to play this version.

-2 sets of command dice with 1 for every unit.
-2+d6 for manifesting/denying psychic powers and rolling variable damages/random pin removal.
-1d10 for leadership tests.
-bucketloads of d12s for shooting attacking and what not.
-some amount of pin markers. I am assuming you would need maybe 15-20 per army for 1500-2k games? Just a guess?


We don’t use the official order dice because the orders have been modified to take into account Psykers which are not included in the Antares rules. Grab a bunch of identical beads, tokens or something in two different colours instead. Each unit, character, vehicle, etc gets a token to toss into the bag.

Here’s the Orders we use:

• Fire – Shoot without moving (+1 to hit)
• Psykers – Use psychic power without moving (+1 to Psychic test)
• Advance – Move and shoot or use psychic power, in any order. -1 to shooting unless Assault weapon, -2 for Heavy weapons, Vehicles ignore this
• Run – Move twice Movement stat without shooting/psychic power, this is also the charge action
• Ambush – Wait to spring a Reaction on an enemy unit
• Rally – Lose D6 pin markers
• Down – Make yourself more difficult to hit

Reserves have their token in the draw bag along with units on the table. When a drawn token is yours, you can choose to use it to bring a reserved unit onto the table and immediately act with it, choosing the order you want to give it. Because coming from reserves counts as having moved, enemy units can use a Reaction against the unit just as if it had been there all along.

Transports are a bit different. They use an order token to activate normally. Their passengers’ order tokens are not included in the draw bag until the transport disembarks them. Passengers can also trigger a Reaction from the enemy with the act of disembarking.
For ex: Activate Trukk, disembark Ork squad, finish move by charging into target to soak overwatch (in BtGoA an enemy unit can attempt either a Stand and Shoot reaction or try for an Escape reaction). Now, the token for the ork squad is put into the bag ready for the next draw.

What you’ll need:

A bunch of identical tokens of some type in two colours
A d12 for manifesting/denying psychic powers (we like the flat chances of a d12 versus the bell curve of 2d6. You can use what you like here.)
A d10 for leadership tests
A d6 or two.
Bucket loads of d12s. Ebay is where we got ours. Something like $3-5 for 10 of them, currency depending.
Pin markers and tokens can be bought cheaply and in bulk at craft stores.

I’m in the process of creating a pdf with these rules to share. I don’t think I’ll have lawyers on my ass if they’re freely given but we’ll see.

   
Made in us
Horrific Hive Tyrant






Suggestions for problems I see.

First: a order that allows for psykers to only manifest powers is bad. Psykers in 40k are not costed and the powers are not set up to only allow the choice of powers or moving/shooting/assault. It drastically alters units like the swarmlord who needs to be able to use its powers move and assault to be worth its cost. Or pink horrors. Who can manifest smite on 1d6 and shoot, but now would have no reason to ever stand still and attempt to cast when they could more reliably shoot with every model.

Instead. Manifesting psychic powers should be part of any of the first 3 normal orders (fire, advance, run) but must be completed before firing any weapons. Now psykers can function normally but not all orders allow for psychic powers.

Second transports and disembarking. A order issued to a transport with a unit embarked upon it can either be issued to the transport or the occupying unit. If issued to the unit the unit disembarks, the opponent can react, then the order is followed. A new token is added to the bag for the transport to be activated later. A unit embarked upon a transport that has been issued a order may not be issued orders.

This makes transports function like they do now. You disembark before they move. The unit that d isembarks doesn't loose its ability to shoot before charging because the vehicle charged first.

3rd, 1d12 to manifest powers ups the chance for perils by a large margin while drastically altering the probabilities of success on powers. With 2d6 the most common result would be a 7. Which makes 8-9 required spells statistically more likely now and 5-6 powers less likely. The same problem carries over to leadership. Nids 6 ld gaunts, gants, and such are very purposefully just below the line. While marines 7 (8 with a Sgt) is very I tentional base on that 2d6 roll. On a single d10 the probabilities equalize across the spectrum but also drastically change the chances of the extreme results (2,3,11,12) and the center (7). I would say this is a very bad thing.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I would not want d12s in the standard size for this. I like the smaller d6s. If I were to play this I would need bulk smaller d12s. 30 termagants with devoured are shooting 90 times. That's an absurd roll with full sized d12s.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/07/23 08:29:17


   
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Thanks for the suggestions, Lance845. We’ll take them into consideration. We haven't found any major issues with psykers so far but then again we haven't delved too deeply into psyker-heavy or dependent armies, yet.

Like I mentioned, we prefer the flat probabilities rather than bell curves. Works for us.

As for the dice, I sure as hell wouldn’t want to roll 90 d12s. I wouldn’t want to roll 90 d6s, either. That’s why a couple of us use dice apps for that.
   
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Horrific Hive Tyrant






As another example of a player unit hit hard by your current rules. Zoanthropes. They have no guns. Are not built for melee. They are mobile synapse and psychic buff/attackers.

If they have to choose between moving and manifesting powers then they are worthless. They will get left behind any time they try to bring any buffs/debuffs/offence to the table and their synapse will fall apart.


New question. Are you using range bands with to hit modifiers or just the flat ranges of standard 8th?

   
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 Lance845 wrote:
As another example of a player unit hit hard by your current rules. Zoanthropes. They have no guns. Are not built for melee. They are mobile synapse and psychic buff/attackers.

If they have to choose between moving and manifesting powers then they are worthless. They will get left behind any time they try to bring any buffs/debuffs/offence to the table and their synapse will fall apart.


New question. Are you using range bands with to hit modifiers or just the flat ranges of standard 8th?


You don't have to choose between moving and manifesting powers. The Advance order allows a unit to move and shoot/use psychic power so Zoanthropes are fine there. We added the specific Psykers order to give the +1 bonus if they chose to remain still for their action.

We tried the range bands early on but left them out to have one less thing to worry about.
   
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Horrific Hive Tyrant






Post those rules when you can. Im interested in a read through.

   
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Fresh-Faced New User




This conversion's main aim is to remove the outdated IGOUGO system from Warhammer 8th Edition 40K. In its place is inserted the Action/Reaction system shared by Beyond the Gates of Antares, Bolt Action and Konflikt ’47.

All points, special rules, unit and weapon values are from the 8th Edition 40k rules but almost everything else has been converted over.

For any rules not found in this document, refer to the 8th Edition 40K rules.

This conversion is not meant to be a six-turn, competitive-tight ruleset. My group and I are not tournament players. Our games are almost always narrative and scenario-based using missions, deployments, etc from a dozen other games as the situation suits us.

We’ve played 20+ games now with these rules as they’ve progressed. The rules have been tested with Orks, Marines, Guard and Tau in games upwards of 1500 points, usually on an 8x5 table for more maneuver room.

My conversion notes were a jumbled mess but I think I’ve included all the rules we use in this cleaned up pdf. Have a look. Let me know what you think.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6WslP6gUlpEM0xZQWdBYWtMRGM

Shared freely, no copyright infringement is intended. My thanks to Rick Priestly and to GW for the solid foundation.


   
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Horrific Hive Tyrant






On Your str vs T table the equivalent attributes should be 7+. 1-6 would be the first half of the die (equivalent to 1-3) with 7-12 being the second half (equivalent to 4-6) 7+ is exactly like 4+.

   
Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User




 Lance845 wrote:
On Your str vs T table the equivalent attributes should be 7+. 1-6 would be the first half of the die (equivalent to 1-3) with 7-12 being the second half (equivalent to 4-6) 7+ is exactly like 4+.


Excellent, thanks.
   
Made in us
Horrific Hive Tyrant






Okay. Here is some more feedback based on the rules doc you posted.

- I understand that you were just doubling the statistics for simplicity. It doesn't really work. In particular it hurts lower attributes a lot. Orks for example who currently hit on a 5+ would end up hitting on a 10+ when they should be hitting on a 9+. Since even a single pin at that point has a pretty drastic effect on them they really need that 9+. Or how a 6+ save goes from a 1 in 6 chance to succeed to a 1 in 12. Horrible.

Here are the appropriate attribute adjustments.

2+ = 3+
3+ = 5+
4+ = 7+
5+ = 9+
6+ = 11+

Any +or -1 bonus from special rules or psychic powers are now a +/- 2 unless it's for ld or manifesting psychic power. Then it remains the same.

- The Konflict 47 rule allowing a single character to activate 2 additional units is good. I like it. It shouldn't be an order though. It can be a simple expansion of Heroic Intervention or a new rule called Leading From The Front.

- I still think the player should not have to choose between psychic powers or shooting. Many units are built for doing both. The thousand sons unit they previewed leading up to release had 4-9 rubric marines accompanied by a sorcerer. Your current rules either has the sorcerer cast a power and 9 rubric marines stand around staring at their feet or the marines shooting their guns while the sorcerer does the same. You can keep the basic orders with all the same penalties as before. Fire grants a +1 to shoot and psychic manifest. Advance is a strait shot with a -2 to heavy weapons. And Run is only shooting assault and psychic but with a -2 to shoot and a -1 to manifest.

- The Pass order is pointless. If you are going to do nothing but still be able to do reactions then you would just Ambush and do nothing and still get to do reactions.

- You seem to have reduced all the cohesion and transport ranges by 1". Is this part of the copy paste from BTGOA or did you have a reason to do this?

- The cover granting to hit modifiers looks neat on the surface but hurts Orks again really badly. A single pin + heavy cover means orks basically loose the ability to hit with ranged weapons.

- Might want to consider swapping out the large to wound chart for the more simple system 8th ed has now.

If T is twice S 11+
If T is higher than S 9+
If T is equal to S 7+
If T is lower than S 5+
If T is half S 3+

It's quick. It's simple. It doesn't require cross referencing attribute on a chart.

- Tyranid Synapse: Units within synapse range should use the LD value of the nearest synapse creature for all rules purposes. That would make it so they use, in general, LD 10 to follow orders and to prevent units of swarms of things from breaking from too many pins. Otherwise Hormagaunts with a single pin would need to pass a LD test with a effective LD value of 5 to do ANYTHING and would only require 6 pins before they just broke and died off while within synapse. Just saying. Without this Nids are crippled by the pin mechanics.

- Pins from shooting. Is the unit supposed to take a pin from hits or from wounds?

   
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- I understand that you were just doubling the statistics for simplicity. It doesn't really work. In particular it hurts lower attributes a lot. Orks for example who currently hit on a 5+ would end up hitting on a 10+ when they should be hitting on a 9+. Since even a single pin at that point has a pretty drastic effect on them they really need that 9+. Or how a 6+ save goes from a 1 in 6 chance to succeed to a 1 in 12. Horrible.

Here are the appropriate attribute adjustments.

2+ = 3+
3+ = 5+
4+ = 7+
5+ = 9+
6+ = 11+

Any +or -1 bonus from special rules or psychic powers are now a +/- 2 unless it's for ld or manifesting psychic power. Then it remains the same.


This has been suggested before and it’s likely we’ll be going with it.

- The Konflict 47 rule allowing a single character to activate 2 additional units is good. I like it. It shouldn't be an order though. It can be a simple expansion of Heroic Intervention or a new rule called Leading From The Front.


This might change to an HQ being able to activate 3 additional units. I play orks and having a warboss activate 2 mobs of boyz plus a waaagh! banner is nice.
The Follow Me! order was really just a formality, I think, since selecting it allows a normal activation order. I wanted to originally call it “Come on you sons of bitches! Do you want to live forever?” But yeah, it could just as easily be dropped and done the way you suggest as a standard rule for HQ units.


- I still think the player should not have to choose between psychic powers or shooting. Many units are built for doing both. The thousand sons unit they previewed leading up to release had 4-9 rubric marines accompanied by a sorcerer. Your current rules either has the sorcerer cast a power and 9 rubric marines stand around staring at their feet or the marines shooting their guns while the sorcerer does the same. You can keep the basic orders with all the same penalties as before. Fire grants a +1 to shoot and psychic manifest. Advance is a strait shot with a -2 to heavy weapons. And Run is only shooting assault and psychic but with a -2 to shoot and a -1 to manifest.


Great feedback. This is one of the units that inevitably slipped by and I’m positive there are more. In the case of the rubric marine squad I would say that activating it would allow all its members to do their thing. This rule will likely be changing as the choice for psychic or shooting is not there in 8th so we’ll do it the same way.

- The Pass order is pointless. If you are going to do nothing but still be able to do reactions then you would just Ambush and do nothing and still get to do reactions.


Good point.

- You seem to have reduced all the cohesion and transport ranges by 1". Is this part of the copy paste from BTGOA or did you have a reason to do this?


This part was my doing. The 3” rule bothered me so I pushed for a nice even 2” and the 1” cohesion as in BtGoA. Can just as easily be kept as written in 8th 40K.

- The cover granting to hit modifiers looks neat on the surface but hurts Orks again really badly. A single pin + heavy cover means orks basically loose the ability to hit with ranged weapons.


Orks are my main army so, yeah, I feel the cover modifiers when unleashing the dakka. The rule of 12s always hitting helps when it’s time to pull out the dice app and roll 60+ times for my shootaz. In 8th 40K, an ork shooting at an obscured Rhino behind a smokescreen can’t hit at all as there is no ‘6 always hits’ rule except in overwatch. Infantry dug into good cover are traditionally difficult to shoot out so you have to get in there with bayonet and/or choppa.

- Might want to consider swapping out the large to wound chart for the more simple system 8th ed has now.

If T is twice S 11+
If T is higher than S 9+
If T is equal to S 7+
If T is lower than S 5+
If T is half S 3+

It's quick. It's simple. It doesn't require cross referencing attribute on a chart.


The vote for the wound chart in our group went 3 to 4. Again, it’s one of those things that can easily be reverted to the way it’s done in 8th 40K. I like cross-referencing charts.

- Tyranid Synapse: Units within synapse range should use the LD value of the nearest synapse creature for all rules purposes. That would make it so they use, in general, LD 10 to follow orders and to prevent units of swarms of things from breaking from too many pins. Otherwise Hormagaunts with a single pin would need to pass a LD test with a effective LD value of 5 to do ANYTHING and would only require 6 pins before they just broke and died off while within synapse. Just saying. Without this Nids are crippled by the pin mechanics.


I can’t say I’m well versed in the Tyranid rules at the moment. I’ve only recently begun looking into them for this conversion as it’ll likely be a new army for me to collect soon.
Hormagaunts don’t have the Synapse special rule but I like the idea of swarms of these bugs. I’m thinking of giving something similar to Mob Rule where their Leadership value will be equal to the number of models currently in the unit. Also, don’t forget the Insane Bravery stratagem to auto pass a Leadership roll.


- Pins from shooting. Is the unit supposed to take a pin from hits or from wounds?


A target receives one pin when it gets hit, regardless of whether a wound was caused or how many hits or casualties it took. I must admit, though, that this rule is in discussion as the argument is that seeing a buddy get wasted in your unit should cause the pin not simply taking fire.

Thanks for the excellent feedback, Lance845.
   
Made in us
Horrific Hive Tyrant






Mithras001 wrote:

- Tyranid Synapse: Units within synapse range should use the LD value of the nearest synapse creature for all rules purposes. That would make it so they use, in general, LD 10 to follow orders and to prevent units of swarms of things from breaking from too many pins. Otherwise Hormagaunts with a single pin would need to pass a LD test with a effective LD value of 5 to do ANYTHING and would only require 6 pins before they just broke and died off while within synapse. Just saying. Without this Nids are crippled by the pin mechanics.


I can’t say I’m well versed in the Tyranid rules at the moment. I’ve only recently begun looking into them for this conversion as it’ll likely be a new army for me to collect soon.
Hormagaunts don’t have the Synapse special rule but I like the idea of swarms of these bugs. I’m thinking of giving something similar to Mob Rule where their Leadership value will be equal to the number of models currently in the unit. Also, don’t forget the Insane Bravery stratagem to auto pass a Leadership roll.


You misunderstood. Synapse gives the synapse creatures an aura. Other, non synapse units within that aura gain the benefits. Most non synapse nid units have a crap leadership. 6 for a lot of them, especially the more horde-y ones. Note that this puts them just below the statistical most common result (7) of a 2d6 ld test.

So if you shoot at and put a single pin on a group of 30 hormagaunts they have to pass a ld 5 test in order to do something besides "Down!". Nids would fall apart under this rule set. They don't need to mimic orks though, because 30 hormagaunts outside of synapse SHOULD be suffering from a weak LD. That is what synapse is for.

So instead synapse should allow units to use the LD value of the nearest synapse creature. Making it so the synapse creature is the one driving them on and pushing past any pins that are in place. A LD 10 Hive tyrant doesn't care if the Hormagaunts have 3 pins. And Hormagaunts under the control of a Hive Tyrant don't have a will of their own to give a gak either. They could just automatically pass the ld tests for orders also, with pins only effecting your ability to hit.


- Pins from shooting. Is the unit supposed to take a pin from hits or from wounds?


A target receives one pin when it gets hit, regardless of whether a wound was caused or how many hits or casualties it took. I must admit, though, that this rule is in discussion as the argument is that seeing a buddy get wasted in your unit should cause the pin not simply taking fire.


I am think any successful to wound roll. So like... if you don't hit say... the swarmlord. He doesn't care. But if you manage to land a blow, and land it well and hard enough that it could cause damage, even if he saves at that point, it's starting to pin him down. And the more times that happens the worse it gets. Just to hit is nothing cause they could just be plinking off and around the sheer toughness of the target. I could see everything in 40k just marching through that. But blows that are only stopped because of the armor, shields, abilities, of the unit. That is when they start going... this gak is getting real.

   
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So instead synapse should allow units to use the LD value of the nearest synapse creature. Making it so the synapse creature is the one driving them on and pushing past any pins that are in place. A LD 10 Hive tyrant doesn't care if the Hormagaunts have 3 pins. And Hormagaunts under the control of a Hive Tyrant don't have a will of their own to give a gak either. They could just automatically pass the ld tests for orders also, with pins only effecting your ability to hit.

This is good. It'll be going into a new section for army specific special rules.

I am think any successful to wound roll. So like... if you don't hit say... the swarmlord. He doesn't care. But if you manage to land a blow, and land it well and hard enough that it could cause damage, even if he saves at that point, it's starting to pin him down. And the more times that happens the worse it gets. Just to hit is nothing cause they could just be plinking off and around the sheer toughness of the target. I could see everything in 40k just marching through that. But blows that are only stopped because of the armor, shields, abilities, of the unit. That is when they start going... this gak is getting real.

I agree. This is better than the way BtGoA does it.
   
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Over the weekend I demoed this rules conversion to an Eldar player outside my group. This latest version incorporates valuable feedback from that game, found here and from within internal testing to further streamline the conversion and not try so hard to fit a square peg into a round hole.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6WslP6gUlpER0lMcDNfYnhlWW8

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/08/01 03:45:56


 
   
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Horrific Hive Tyrant






Im still reading it over. Il post more feedback later. You should put the link to the latest version in the first post.

   
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Horrific Hive Tyrant






Ok.

-The charge and advance order should be combined or the charge order should be given a move M +2d6.

Simply charging 2d6 drastically reduces the effective charge range of assault units (especially because the dedicated melee units tend to have a pretty good M attribute).

Is there a reason you changed it to this instead of the double M?

-HQ Units and Orders: First I think this should be characters not simply HQ units. The point of doing this with 8th is to keep units and their area buffs together. Elite characters need that just as much as HQ.

Second, I think +3 is too much. It's heading towards creating death star activations. I would make it 1 + 1 protector unit. So like... a Hive Tyrant can activate a unit of Tyrant Guard and 1 anything else at the same time. Or a Necron Cryptek with a unit of warriors and lychguard. Or a Tau Cadre Fireblade, Firewarriors and Drones.

Maybe it should be 2 rules. 1: When you activate a character you can activate 1 other non character unit within 3" at the same time. 2: If a unit gets activated within 3" of a protector unit then you may activate the protector unit with it.

At most that would allow tau to activate a character, a non character, and 2 units of drones (that probably came with them to begin with) and would be very fluffy.


Might have more later.

   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




The charge and advance order should be combined or the charge order should be given a move M +2d6.

Simply charging 2d6 drastically reduces the effective charge range of assault units (especially because the dedicated melee units tend to have a pretty good M attribute).

Is there a reason you changed it to this instead of the double M?


Double M worked great on our 8x5 table but with the greater speeds involved of many units on smaller tables it may be too much.

Excellent. M+2d6 is exactly how it should be for the Charge order as in 8th one can both move and charge in the the same turn.. We went with the specific Advance order because so many units have rules for “adding 6 instead of rolling d6 for advancement” etc.

Also, the player I demoed for had a very good point: the rules were all well and good for our small group but if there was any hope of expanding to other players it would be best to make it as familiar as possible. Hence why the 3 move orders are like those in 8th and tests went back to 2d6. A couple of the more restricting unit rules were removed, as well.


-HQ Units and Orders: First I think this should be characters not simply HQ units. The point of doing this with 8th is to keep units and their area buffs together. Elite characters need that just as much as HQ.


I agree here.

Second, I think +3 is too much. It's heading towards creating death star activations. I would make it 1 + 1 protector unit. So like... a Hive Tyrant can activate a unit of Tyrant Guard and 1 anything else at the same time. Or a Necron Cryptek with a unit of warriors and lychguard. Or a Tau Cadre Fireblade, Firewarriors and Drones.


Yeah, +3 units may be too much. Like I mentioned earlier, I had visions of my warboss, two boyz mob and a waaagh! Banner getting stuck in. +2 units may be better.

I hear your point about death stars but enemy units being able to react against these multiple unit activations goes a long way where as before you had to sit there and eat it.

Thanks for the feedback.


   
Made in se
Fresh-Faced New User



Norrköping, Sweden

Hello! Just found this tvread by pure chance and i must say I'm very impressed by your work!

This looks like an excellent mashup of rulesets that I'm very keen on trying out!

I have no constrctive critisism or suggestions to give yet, but just wanted to say "keep up the great work"!
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




mordoten wrote:
Hello! Just found this tvread by pure chance and i must say I'm very impressed by your work!

This looks like an excellent mashup of rulesets that I'm very keen on trying out!

I have no constrctive critisism or suggestions to give yet, but just wanted to say "keep up the great work"!


Thanks. Please do leave constructive criticism or suggestions if you happen to give the rules a try.

OP updated with latest version.
   
 
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