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7th edition Deff Koptas cost 30pts, for that price you got a T5 4+ Save with 2 wound model w/Jink that could carry a TL Rokkit around.

8th Edition, the Kopta armed with Rokkits went from 30pts to 83pts. TL changed to 2 shots which is marginally better for orkz because of BS2, you gained +1 strength, and 2 more wounds. So technically, and I emphasize technically it is twice as hard to kill. Realistically though, 4 wounds on a 4+ save model in an edition where your basic heavy weapon like a Missile Launcher has a 50% chance to 1 shot it....and your model lost jink....yeah its actually significantly less durable.

Now one more plus side to the Kopta is that it can now take a Bomb for free which inflicts Mortal wounds on a 5+. You always hit 5 targets so you have a decent chance to inflict 2 mortal wounds on a unit (1 dice for every model up to 5)

So 30pts - 83pts, very little difference in shooting, significantly less durable (multi wound weapons and loss of Jink) but it does get a nifty bomb it can use once a game.

I'd consider koptas good if they were 40 pts. Passable if they were 45-50.

I would love to hear from people who think it is appropriately priced

They need to do a few things

1 - Give the Bomb a 10 point cost, reduce the base cost by 10
2 - Reduce the price of the Rocket to 22 points
3 - Reduce the price of Mega Blasta to 7 points
4 - Reduce the price of the Twin Big Shoota to 12 points
5 - Reduce the price of the base chassis by 7 points.

This will make the basic cost be 38 points, with a minimal gun making it 45 points.
With the Rocket loadout being 60 points
Any loadout may spend 10 points for the once per game bomb.

 Talamare wrote:
They need to do a few things

1 - Give the Bomb a 10 point cost, reduce the base cost by 10
2 - Reduce the price of the Rocket to 22 points
3 - Reduce the price of Mega Blasta to 7 points
4 - Reduce the price of the Twin Big Shoota to 12 points
5 - Reduce the price of the base chassis by 7 points.

This will make the basic cost be 38 points, with a minimal gun making it 45 points.
With the Rocket loadout being 60 points
Any loadout may spend 10 points for the once per game bomb.

I Think the bomb needs a price, but anymore then 3-5pts and it won't be taken. Keep in mind its a 1/3rd chance to hurt something.

The Twin Rokkitz cost 28pts, so this is a step in the right direction, I would probably drop it to about 10-12pts personally.

I Don't think anyone takes the Blasta because it hurtz its owner as often as its enemy.

Big Shootas are 6pts each and 14 for linked, personally I think the Big shoota is worth about 3pts at most. but again a good step forward.

overall, I like your suggestions, I am confused by your comment about reducing the base cost by 10 and by 7, could you clarify?

I think they could use a slight points decrease, but I also think you're selling the improvements slightly short.

Rokkits are now a flat 3 damage from 1 damage AP3, where they could not explode vehicles. Spinnin' Blades also give it 2D3 attacks in melee, which is pretty solid for a single model.

In the games I've tried them out, they've fared pretty well in their role of distraction/skirmishing annoyance. As an example of one game's performance:

Turn 1 took 3 wounds off a rhino
Turn 2 dropped a bigbomm killing 2 SM Scouts, then charged and dealt 1 wound to Sergeant Telion in melee, preventing him from shooting for a turn
Turn 3 jumped over and killed the techmarine gunner of a thunderfire cannon, effectively killing the cannon as well, then got taken down by sniper rifle fire.

Overall though I think they need a price reduction because they're too efficient to kill if your opponent knows to just put a lascannon or two into them. This game, my opponent kept trying to shoot them with anti infantry stuff and it just didn't work.

Base points cost reduction. Twin rokkit point reduction. Add cost to the bombs. Net point reduction overall.

The base cost is a little high, but I can live with it if the bomm is free. The guns are overcosted, especially rokkits.

They overvalued Ork shooting in general, and twin-linked in particular (And no, Orks are not an assault only army)

Almost EVERYTHING in orks is overpriced for their weak rules.

 Brutallica wrote:
Almost EVERYTHING in orks is overpriced for their weak rules.

Delete Imperium from the game, and Orkz become pretty good

 Talamare wrote:

 Brutallica wrote:
Almost EVERYTHING in orks is overpriced for their weak rules.

Delete Imperium from the game, and Orkz become pretty good

Then there will be Tau, remove them, then tyranids... etc etc
Kind of pointless

Pretty much, especially as we are seeing -1 to hit cropping up more and more. My meta is all Power Level games and I struggle to see two Deffkoptas as worth as much as a full unit of Havocs with four Missile Launchers, Icon, and a combi-weapon.

 Talamare wrote:

 Brutallica wrote:
Almost EVERYTHING in orks is overpriced for their weak rules.

Delete Imperium from the game, and Orkz become pretty good

Besides the biggest most populous faction in the game that makes up the majority of codex's, orkz are in a good spot. Except for Tau who are the Ork Hard counter, and Nidz who are both faster and harder hitting in CC, and Eldar and CSM....

Orkz as I predicted are bottom tier again and I personally believe the biggest reason is Orkz are heavily over priced like the Deff Kopta. Beyond that Orkz are in place where thinks that are relatively cheap already (Boyz, Grotz...thats about it) aren't strong enough. 6+ saves are either ignored or ineffective for damage reduction, similar units are either cheaper or have better stats or both. (IG Having conscripts and Guardsmen for next to nothing comes to mind) Worse, Orkz are still primarily written as a CC army but we are the slowest faction in the game, tied with Necrons who at least have good ranged weapons. Orkz somehow are slower then Guardsmen in the movement phase....let that sink in.

Is the 8th edition price of a Deff Kopta to High.

Should be "Is the 8th Edition Price of a Deff Kopta too High?"

Isn't the Ork Deff Kopta a Flyer? If it is, then yeah, it's worth those 83 points.

If it's not a Flyer... /shrug there is a lot of models/units that have messed up rules and costs right now thanks to GW throwing out the Indexes as fast as possible so people could play 8th edition.

What is a Deff Kopta's Power Level? How you tried using the Power Level instead of points?

 Tamwulf wrote:

Is the 8th edition price of a Deff Kopta to High.

Should be "Is the 8th Edition Price of a Deff Kopta too High?"

Isn't the Ork Deff Kopta a Flyer? If it is, then yeah, it's worth those 83 points.

If it's not a Flyer... /shrug there is a lot of models/units that have messed up rules and costs right now thanks to GW throwing out the Indexes as fast as possible so people could play 8th edition.

What is a Deff Kopta's Power Level? How you tried using the Power Level instead of points?

The Ork Deff Kopta used to be a Jetbike, it is not a flyer. And nobody in my gaming community uses Power levels because it is so unbalanced and nonsensical. (PL 5)

Deff Kopta has FLY, so it can zoom over units and hazards, and charge with its Killsaw & rotors then next turn disengage and dakka away - but anti-air type weapons will hit hard.

But it's not Supersonic, so it has no minimum move or or maneuvering restrictions - but ground units can charge it, and it inflicts no penalties to incoming fire.

It also has VEHICLE, so no weird shenanigans of hitching a ride in a Trukk. or via Da Jump. Sadly, a Mek can't repair it - but it can laugh at poison type weapons, whilst fearing haywire sort of things.

It's battlefield role is Fast Attack, not Flyer, so it can stop you getting tabled, can help fill out an Outriders detachment, and doesn't take part in dogfights.