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How do?

First up, this isn't about their place in the background. I like their background.

Nor is it about the model design. I think they look great.

But....game wise. For me, they just don't quite fit. When I first saw the rumour pics (disbeliever in that early day, so the later ones) I was enthused. I loved the idea of upgraded Marines, and was intrigued to see and learn more.

Hell, I was even keen to do an all Primaris Chapter. The money aspect doesn't bother me any more than it ever has (which is not at all. YMMV, and fair enough). But then I saw their rules.

Now I don't consider them weak or overcosted. Simply put, I only rarely get to play so I don't consider myself qualified to debate the minutiae, and I've never been one for number crunching.

They just don't seem to work that well as a pure force. I feel like I'd be strapped for firepower. Yes, I could cough up the points for Plasma up the wazoo. And I do like Plasma. But given their points cost, not only would that make an already small force even smaller by necessity, but the volume of shots each Plasma weapon gets all but guarantees casualties when I ramp up the power. And that's casualties I just can't see a pure Primaris army being able to sustain. And that's unusual for me, as I'm normally pretty cavalier, preferring to focus on the objectives and hang the casualties.

But here....I just can't make it work in my head, so I'm unlikely to field them as an army.

So yeah, mostly just an offloading of my thoughts post. But if you've got anything to chip in with on the matter, I'd love to hear it. Perhaps I'm missing something - as I said, I'm pretty inexperienced in 8th Ed, so that's entirely possible

Yeah, they definitely don't work as a pure force. I have a strong feeling though that we're going to see a "Codex: Primaris Marines" at some point, and you'll likely get a whole heap of bonuses from going pure-Primaris. GW has stated that this would be the intention of 40k; that you can have a "soup" army, but you won't get the bonuses from zooming in, and "the further you zoom in, the greater those bonuses become".

Right now, Primaris Marines are primarily aiding others. The main ones I've seen to be worth it are the plasma-totting dudes, the jump pack dudes, and the Lieutenant for re-rolls. That's quite a lot of them, but the basic Intercessor Squad is pretty weak-sauce without special gear.

With apologies for swapping games, and indeed eras, it's like when I tried to put together a Saurus heavy Lizardman list.

Sadly, it just didn't work. Saurus were pretty rock, but needed Skinks to bother flanks. A decent number to bother flanks effectively.

Ah well. Mayhap in the future.

They also help with buffing up part of Deathwatch. As a pure army it could work... Theoretically, but the issue is they've got holes in those area's that somewhat need filling.

They do fulfil a commercial role though. As a marine force without too many options they are ideal for people new to the game. There is nothing worse than a new marine player realising he has built the wrong heavy weapon options for the local opponents.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
With apologies for swapping games, and indeed eras, it's like when I tried to put together a Saurus heavy Lizardman list.

Sadly, it just didn't work. Saurus were pretty rock, but needed Skinks to bother flanks. A decent number to bother flanks effectively.

Ah well. Mayhap in the future.

Good. That's how games should work. Not just "spam this one unit" but actually having some tactical decisions

I think, that when they get better units, like CC based assault marines for example, they will be a more rounded force.

They are definetly not lacking as a shooting force, a bunch of hellblasters and an ancient, a redemptor dread, repulsor, aggressors etc, lots and lots of shooting.

 Purifier wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
With apologies for swapping games, and indeed eras, it's like when I tried to put together a Saurus heavy Lizardman list.

Sadly, it just didn't work. Saurus were pretty rock, but needed Skinks to bother flanks. A decent number to bother flanks effectively.

Ah well. Mayhap in the future.

Good. That's how games should work. Not just "spam this one unit" but actually having some tactical decisions

Risk of a tangent this early....the trouble I found is that by the time you had a workable number of Skinks, you couldn't then afford a workable number of Saurus.

I fully anticipate further space marine codex releases having Primaris releases accompany them, so I would anticipate some sort of close combat variant intercessors alongside SW or BA, and the CC variant of Primaris terminators alongside DA. I'll be disappointed otherwise because Primaris range seems only half done at this stage.

There hasn't been many Primaries releases yet. They might struggle making a well rounded force, but I'm sure in time they will cover all the bases.

Hey, I have a 1500pt primaris army, and I can say this for them:

Captain is pretty solid, especially if you can get the plasma/powerfist version.

Hellblasters overcharging with him, an ancient with the emperor's banner and, optionally, an apothecary, can put out serious pain on any target. But this set up in a spearhead detachment is already around 750pts. Ouch.

I quite like intercessors - their grenade launcher is a nice added shot, their powersword searg is pretty handy, they shoot well, they fight well, they die well.

Reavers are meh, and Inceptors are still damn expensive; this is where Primaris only starts to go off the tracks: deepstrike options are anaemic, and I'm considering a small Grey Knight force to plug this gap, while keeping it elite and shiny.

Redemptors are ... quite good? Until you see contemptors & leviathans. 3+ save with no invuln makes them degrade all too quickly. They excel in CC though, wrecking tanks and elites.

So overall, I agree, Primaris are very limited. But hey. it's early days. I see them as a future-proof army - GW will keep coming back to them, incrementally building their list of units. Until then, enjoy their badass aesthetic.

They are a lot better than regular space marines.

Repulsor > Landraider and it fills the same role
Intersessors and Reivers > tactical marines (tactical marines really don't have a roll)
Hellblasters > basically every astartes unit that isn't a storm raven or a razorback.
Agressors are just more offensive terminators - though they aren't much better (basically all units in the game like this are suffering)
All their characters are basically +1 wound for not a lot of points.

but it's true - they are a little underwhelming. They don't have a lot of choices but most of their choices are good. They are way better off than grey-knights IMO.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

grouchoben wrote:
Hey, I have a 1500pt primaris army, and I can say this for them:

Captain is pretty solid, especially if you can get the plasma/powerfist version.

Hellblasters overcharging with him, an ancient with the emperor's banner and, optionally, an apothecary, can put out serious pain on any target. But this set up in a spearhead detachment is already around 750pts. Ouch.

I quite like intercessors - their grenade launcher is a nice added shot, their powersword searg is pretty handy, they shoot well, they fight well, they die well.

Reavers are meh, and Inceptors are still damn expensive; this is where Primaris only starts to go off the tracks: deepstrike options are anaemic, and I'm considering a small Grey Knight force to plug this gap, while keeping it elite and shiny.

Redemptors are ... quite good? Until you see contemptors & leviathans. 3+ save with no invuln makes them degrade all too quickly. They excel in CC though, wrecking tanks and elites.

So overall, I agree, Primaris are very limited. But hey. it's early days. I see them as a future-proof army - GW will keep coming back to them, incrementally building their list of units. Until then, enjoy their badass aesthetic.

Forge world Relics making good codex options look bad - this is nothing new.

Intercessors are the toughest troop choice for Space Marines, but their lack of options is an issue. They wind up being good bullies, being better against much weaker models, like Guard equivalents, and their two wounds makes them better at taking return fire from non-special-equipped units. I think most people use them in a defensive role, as sitting in cover they require a decent amount of effort to shift. Offensively, they're not that great. Tacticals armed appropriately can be better against any target other than GEQ types.

Hellblasters I just don't get. They're sexy, but they the fact that every model has to have a Plasma-something makes them a big fat expensive target. IMO Devastators are more useful.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Repulsor > Landraider and it fills the same role.

If the role is to transport anything other than Primaris models, then no, it's not. It's neat that it flies, and it's neat that it can get like a billion shots if you want. 2+ on the Land Raider is pretty nice though.

One of the main problems now is that the designers grossly underestimated hordes My guess was that they thought this edition people would gravitate towards the 2+ wound models more and hoping that morale would have taken care of the horde troops. Going by the looks of it, the departments weren't communicating very well, with the ones designing the hordes realized that they would basically flee at the drop of a hat and gave them all sorts of shenanigans to mitigate morale, while the department with all the big stuff weren't informed of this and just kept designing against other big stuff, assuming that a stiff breeze would get rid of hordes.

In my limited experience, they do not work as a pure force, but I can say that they add a lot of versatility to the Space Marine Codex as a whole. My Vanguard Vets chewed through an opposing assault squad, but got tarpitted by a 5-man squad of Intercessors for 3 turns.

The Redemptor is a great way to get a lot of dakka on the table in a very durable unit that can't be ignored, same with the Repulsor, but having limited transport and weapon options make a Primaris-only force quite slow and cumbersome. Adding in assault squads, sniper scouts, and other vehicles shore up the Primaris weaknesses.

Yeah, I'm certainly not convinced the game is working as intended, but I'm still having fun so I'm not too worried.

Re: Land Raider vs Repulsor, I much prefer LR. Land raider looks badass, the repulsor looks goofy. Maybe it's nostalgia induced, but the Repulsor looks too much like "everything and the kitchen sink", and the lack of transport synergy between Primaris and Mini Marines is infuriating to the point where it seems like they're two armies, but couldn't get Primaris rounded out fast enough so had to squish them into the vanilla marines book. 16 marines in a Crusader, 0 Primaris? 10 Primaris in a Repulsor, 0 tac marines? Dumb.

 Insectum7 wrote:
Hellblasters I just don't get. They're sexy, but they the fact that every model has to have a Plasma-something makes them a big fat expensive target. IMO Devastators are more useful.

I love my SW Hellblasters. They tend not to get picked on too badly because anything that looks at them gets vapourised by super-heated plasma.

Joking aside, I find they work really well with Devastators, not instead of them. Devastators excel at taking up commanding firing positions and using their long range. Hellblasters have the advantage of better mobilty and higher RoF (at <15" range) which means they are good for hunting down targets trying to hide out of LoS. When overcharging, they are powerful enough to take down anything up to about Dreadnought sized in a single volley.

 Karhedron wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
Hellblasters I just don't get. They're sexy, but they the fact that every model has to have a Plasma-something makes them a big fat expensive target. IMO Devastators are more useful.

I love my SW Hellblasters. They tend not to get picked on too badly because anything that looks at them gets vapourised by super-heated plasma.

Joking aside, I find they work really well with Devastators, not instead of them. Devastators excel at taking up commanding firing positions and using their long range. Hellblasters have the advantage of better mobilty and higher RoF (at <15" range) which means they are good for hunting down targets trying to hide out of LoS. When overcharging, they are powerful enough to take down anything up to about Dreadnought sized in a single volley.

Hmm, I can see the appeal, but how do you get them anywhere without getting killed?

What do everyone think of the apothecary and chaplain? They're expensive individual models, are they regulars on your lists?

Xenomancers wrote:They are a lot better than regular space marines.

Repulsor > Landraider and it fills the same role
Intersessors and Reivers > tactical marines (tactical marines really don't have a roll)
Hellblasters > basically every astartes unit that isn't a storm raven or a razorback.
Agressors are just more offensive terminators - though they aren't much better (basically all units in the game like this are suffering)
All their characters are basically +1 wound for not a lot of points.

but it's true - they are a little underwhelming. They don't have a lot of choices but most of their choices are good. They are way better off than grey-knights IMO.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

grouchoben wrote:
Hey, I have a 1500pt primaris army, and I can say this for them:

Captain is pretty solid, especially if you can get the plasma/powerfist version.

Hellblasters overcharging with him, an ancient with the emperor's banner and, optionally, an apothecary, can put out serious pain on any target. But this set up in a spearhead detachment is already around 750pts. Ouch.

I quite like intercessors - their grenade launcher is a nice added shot, their powersword searg is pretty handy, they shoot well, they fight well, they die well.

Reavers are meh, and Inceptors are still damn expensive; this is where Primaris only starts to go off the tracks: deepstrike options are anaemic, and I'm considering a small Grey Knight force to plug this gap, while keeping it elite and shiny.

Redemptors are ... quite good? Until you see contemptors & leviathans. 3+ save with no invuln makes them degrade all too quickly. They excel in CC though, wrecking tanks and elites.

So overall, I agree, Primaris are very limited. But hey. it's early days. I see them as a future-proof army - GW will keep coming back to them, incrementally building their list of units. Until then, enjoy their badass aesthetic.

Forge world Relics making good codex options look bad - this is nothing new.

Agree on most points


Though Reavers do have a good place, they're points effective at fighting GEQ units

As for Hellblasters, Plasma Cannon Devastators are actually better, at both, killing and surviving, though Hellblasters are damn cool looking so I got emm anyways

argonak wrote:What do everyone think of the apothecary and chaplain? They're expensive individual models, are they regulars on your lists?

Hell no for efficiency, Hell yes for cool factor, Apothecary might be worth it if you get the Index Astartes from FW, then you can use the model to represent the special character that revives on 3+, otherwise it's only point effective to get an apothecary if you have a tanky character focused army

 Dovis wrote:

Hell no for efficiency, Hell yes for cool factor, Apothecary might be worth it if you get the Index Astartes from FW, then you can use the model to represent the special character that revives on 3+, otherwise it's only point effective to get an apothecary if you have a tanky character focused army

I think the ability to heal and revive expensive units like Hellblasters is worth it. With cheaper units is it is of course better to just use the points to get more guys to begin with.

 Crimson wrote:

 Dovis wrote:

Hell no for efficiency, Hell yes for cool factor, Apothecary might be worth it if you get the Index Astartes from FW, then you can use the model to represent the special character that revives on 3+, otherwise it's only point effective to get an apothecary if you have a tanky character focused army

I think the ability to heal and revive expensive units like Hellblasters is worth it. With cheaper units is it is of course better to just use the points to get more guys to begin with.

Primaris Apothecary - 68 points, you can get a full Tactical Marine squad, or 2 additional Hellblasters


So, that highly depends on a few factors

1) Length of game, if you revive at statistical 50% probability, you need 4 turns to get the 2 Hellblasters, thought that's worse than having 2 extra to begin with, since there is a possibility that you'd get to shoot with them.

2) How you manage you slots, because a troop choice might add to getting those sweet extra command points, not to mention the extra unit furthers your chances of getting the bonus of roll for first turn


There is plenty ways to spend 68 points and it's one of the worst to get a Primaris Apothecary

 Dovis wrote:


There is plenty ways to spend 68 points and it's one of the worst to get a Primaris Apothecary

Primaris apotechary is overpriced, no arguments here. Still, if you have a plasma star of bunch of hellblasters and a buff captain, possibly some other characters too, including an apotechary might not be a bad idea. Being able to bring back plasma guys and heal the characters seems decent. There is a lot of power tied to the buff characters, and making sure they stay alive is nothing to scoff at. Many people seem to include the ancient in such a combo, but I'd rather have an apotechary. But yeah, the standard version heals just as well and is quite a bit cheaper, it also is weird that the Primaris apotechary doesn't get the extra attack like the other Primaris models tend to get (but the Primaris pistols are really cool!)

Primaris marks the end of the dark age and the beginning of the renaissance.
I guess that this will open a new area of 40k with more technologically advanced units and armies.

I definitely feel like right now, they're better for aesthetic than gaming. Which is a shame, because I love them in comparison to older marines!

I don't even like the scale. Count yourself lucky you like the lore and models.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Primaris marks the end of the dark age and the beginning of the renaissance.
I guess that this will open a new area of 40k with more technologically advanced units and armies.

That's a very cool way to look at it

 Karhedron wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
Hellblasters I just don't get. They're sexy, but they the fact that every model has to have a Plasma-something makes them a big fat expensive target. IMO Devastators are more useful.

I love my SW Hellblasters. They tend not to get picked on too badly because anything that looks at them gets vapourised by super-heated plasma.

Joking aside, I find they work really well with Devastators, not instead of them. Devastators excel at taking up commanding firing positions and using their long range. Hellblasters have the advantage of better mobilty and higher RoF (at <15" range) which means they are good for hunting down targets trying to hide out of LoS. When overcharging, they are powerful enough to take down anything up to about Dreadnought sized in a single volley.

Long fangs with 4 plasma cannons is cheaper has more firepower greater range and gets to reroll ones without a wolfguard battle leader sitting next to them.

 Crimson wrote:

 Dovis wrote:


There is plenty ways to spend 68 points and it's one of the worst to get a Primaris Apothecary

Primaris apotechary is overpriced, no arguments here. Still, if you have a plasma star of bunch of hellblasters and a buff captain, possibly some other characters too, including an apotechary might not be a bad idea. Being able to bring back plasma guys and heal the characters seems decent. There is a lot of power tied to the buff characters, and making sure they stay alive is nothing to scoff at. Many people seem to include the ancient in such a combo, but I'd rather have an apotechary. But yeah, the standard version heals just as well and is quite a bit cheaper, it also is weird that the Primaris apotechary doesn't get the extra attack like the other Primaris models tend to get (but the Primaris pistols are really cool!)

I'd vote for taking an Ancient, with the relic it statistically gives 2/3rds of your guys one more shot, that's huge, Ancient is absolutely badass

Though yeah, I guess it depends on the points you're playing, I wouldn't take one under 1000, if it's more than that, why not

 Dovis wrote:

I'd vote for taking an Ancient, with the relic it statistically gives 2/3rds of your guys one more shot, that's huge, Ancient is absolutely badass

Only if those guys die. I'd prefer them to stay alive and keep shooting. The Apotechary helps with that.