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Ave dominus Machina!

I have a problem - I can't decide which list to stick to and actually assemble to finish. I want to create themed army using mostly Ironstriders and Dragoons but I made it difficult by creating two armies side by side.

First List utilizes Icarus Onagers and 6 Lascannon Ironstriders with 5 Autocannons ones.

Second list utilizes 2 Onagers with double Stubbers and Neutron Laser as it is viewed as an "optimal" build for Onagers. It also includes whooping 12 Autocannon Ironstriders (as Lascannons are replaced by Neutron Onagers)


Which list would be "better"? Any input?

I highly recommend doing at least one single group of Taser Dragoons to take maximum advantage of Conquerer Doctrina strategem. This will let them trigger their Tasers on 4+.

And I think you might want to mix/match the autocannons and lascannons. You also might want to cluster them up a bit too so you can make them most of Protector Doctrina strategem. This means you get +2 to-hit, which is stellar. You can move and shoot that way or hunker down and really improve your shooting with Cawl nearby.

Maybe go for 4 Lascannons and the rest Autocannons, with one Neutronager and one Icarus? A good mix means losing any one thing won't undercut your ability to handle one type of threat.

Also, another benefit of clustering the shooty ones together is Wrath of Mars. That really is an excellent force multiplier.

Now, as you can see, strategems are vital. I highly recommend breaking your force out at the expense of the Infiltrators. Toss them for a basic Enginseer and push the Dragoons/Ballistarii into additional Outrider detachments. Try to get three, so you have six CP to play with. Might not be doable, so you may wish to consider just making a Battalion and a Spearhead, though that may not fit your models or wants. Just a thought though.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
I highly recommend doing at least one single group of Taser Dragoons to take maximum advantage of Conquerer Doctrina strategem. This will let them trigger their Tasers on 4+.

And I think you might want to mix/match the autocannons and lascannons. You also might want to cluster them up a bit too so you can make them most of Protector Doctrina strategem. This means you get +2 to-hit, which is stellar. You can move and shoot that way or hunker down and really improve your shooting with Cawl nearby.

Maybe go for 4 Lascannons and the rest Autocannons, with one Neutronager and one Icarus? A good mix means losing any one thing won't undercut your ability to handle one type of threat.

Also, another benefit of clustering the shooty ones together is Wrath of Mars. That really is an excellent force multiplier.

Now, as you can see, strategems are vital. I highly recommend breaking your force out at the expense of the Infiltrators. Toss them for a basic Enginseer and push the Dragoons/Ballistarii into additional Outrider detachments. Try to get three, so you have six CP to play with. Might not be doable, so you may wish to consider just making a Battalion and a Spearhead, though that may not fit your models or wants. Just a thought though.

A Goondozer eh? I will think about it.

Good point about clustering them up.

I don't want to take anything outside of machines (I even intend to convert a special character out of Ironstrider frame to use as my Cawl). Part of why there is no Robots in there (stupid Datasmith) - Infiltratos are an exception due to their unique physique - they look like human size Dragoons.
My wants are strange though - I want to make an thematic and fluffy army list which works decent on the battlefield. Wanted to include a unit of Infiltrators cause I bought few boxes and don't want them to just sit at home.

Right now I'm leaning towards this changes:

I could forfeit that the idea of Cavaliers could be made with one detachment and the Spearhead works separately:

 Kandela wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
I highly recommend doing at least one single group of Taser Dragoons to take maximum advantage of Conquerer Doctrina strategem. This will let them trigger their Tasers on 4+.

And I think you might want to mix/match the autocannons and lascannons. You also might want to cluster them up a bit too so you can make them most of Protector Doctrina strategem. This means you get +2 to-hit, which is stellar. You can move and shoot that way or hunker down and really improve your shooting with Cawl nearby.

Maybe go for 4 Lascannons and the rest Autocannons, with one Neutronager and one Icarus? A good mix means losing any one thing won't undercut your ability to handle one type of threat.

Also, another benefit of clustering the shooty ones together is Wrath of Mars. That really is an excellent force multiplier.

Now, as you can see, strategems are vital. I highly recommend breaking your force out at the expense of the Infiltrators. Toss them for a basic Enginseer and push the Dragoons/Ballistarii into additional Outrider detachments. Try to get three, so you have six CP to play with. Might not be doable, so you may wish to consider just making a Battalion and a Spearhead, though that may not fit your models or wants. Just a thought though.

A Goondozer eh? I will think about it.

Good point about clustering them up.

I don't want to take anything outside of machines (I even intend to convert a special character out of Ironstrider frame to use as my Cawl). Part of why there is no Robots in there (stupid Datasmith) - Infiltratos are an exception due to their unique physique - they look like human size Dragoons.
My wants are strange though - I want to make an thematic and fluffy army list which works decent on the battlefield. Wanted to include a unit of Infiltrators cause I bought few boxes and don't want them to just sit at home.

Right now I'm leaning towards this changes:

Spoiler:

Cawl
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Onager Dunecrawler
Double Cognis Heavy Stubber
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Onager Dunecrawler
Double Cognis Heavy Stubber
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Dragoon (2)
Taser
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Dragoon (2)
Taser
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Dragoon (4)
Taser
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Ironstrider (6)
Autocannon
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Ironstrider (6)
Autocannon

Yup, go for the Goondozer.

Also, Robots don't require a Datasmith anymore. Just hit them with Binharic Overide. That opens them up for you!

If those are Neutronagers in your new list, I think you have a list that can work. You will be starved for CP though, which means you got to make those Doctrina Strategems count.

If you are heading this way. Consider

A max unit always help. If you are to drop and buff with gem q group of dragoons then you need 6*.

Same goes for other groups any single unit you need to buff need to benefit max. So id go for large groups ans min for slot detachment issues.

Onagers of you gonna take two make them icarus. One large group of lasc or two 4+ will cover neutrons. While icarus will make sure you wont need to spend gems for air enemies. While large numbers of twin lasc can cover anti tank needs.

Tip. Magnetize your onagers and as many ironstriders as possible.
Dont forget you might need 8 dragoons taser for a complete melee outriders. Rest can be even smaller not so important. But i strongly suggest magnetise your models.

So... you want to make a list with 18 Ironstriders? Geez...

I would do something like this:
Stygies VIII Battalion Detachment - 1327

HQ - 187
1x Tech-Priest Dominus - Warlord: Necromechanic, Autocaduceus of Arkhan Land
1x Tech-Priest Enginseer

Troop - 120
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle

Fast Attack - 1020
6x Ironstrider Ballistarii - Twin Cognis Lascannon
6x Ironstrider Ballistarii - Twin Cognis Autocannon

Stygies VIII Battalion Detachment - 632

HQ - 104
1x Tech-Priest Enginseer
1x Tech-Priest Enginseer

Troop - 120
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle

Fast Attack - 408
3x Sydonian Dragoon - Taser Lance
3x Sydonian Dragoon - Taser Lance

Total: 1959 points
9 Command Points

The goal is to exploit Doctrinas. You usually want to buff the Lascannons since the Autocannons can shred infantry even without the Doctrinas. To do this, you will want one of each Ballistarii unit in full size. They have 48" range, 58" with movement, and they can all target separate units, so you will never struggle to find targets. Dragoons you want in units of 3 to handle T6 stuff and just stand menacingly nearby or infiltrate; if they get into the backline, your opponent is screwed.

You don't need Cawl because you will be using 1-2 Doctrinas every turn, meaning his aura is no different than a Dominus's. You don't need Mars because you have no Kastelans. So 100% Stygies. You also need a crapton of CP to power this strategy, so minimum units of Rangers that you can use to screen your Ironstriders and hold objectives briefly before dying awfully.

The entire army should be moving every turn. Stay beyond 12" + enemy move at all times. Exploit that 58" effective range. Advance the HQs because they can repair even if they can't shoot. Also advance your screen to block area.

Suzuteo wrote:



The goal is to exploit Doctrinas. You usually want to buff the Lascannons since the Autocannons can shred infantry even without the Doctrinas. To do this, you will want one of each Ballistarii unit in full size. They have 48" range, 58" with movement, and they can all target separate units, so you will never struggle to find targets. Dragoons you want in units of 3 to handle T6 stuff and just stand menacingly nearby or infiltrate; if they get into the backline, your opponent is screwed.

You don't need Cawl because you will be using 1-2 Doctrinas every turn, meaning his aura is no different than a Dominus's. You don't need Mars because you have no Kastelans. So 100% Stygies. You also need a crapton of CP to power this strategy, so minimum units of Rangers that you can use to screen your Ironstriders and hold objectives briefly before dying awfully.

The entire army should be moving every turn. Stay beyond 12" + enemy move at all times. Exploit that 58" effective range. Advance the HQs because they can repair even if they can't shoot. Also advance your screen to block area.

The stuff about the Cawl in this army is actually very true. In my mind though he is there to support the rest of the army after I run out of CPs - I really want to have a full Alpha Strike at turn one - that means getting two full autocannon Ironstriders squads and giving them both Protector Doctrina Imperative and giving big unit of Dragoons Conqueror Doctrina Imperative for maximum damage. Then I'm down to 1 CP and could use it to either boost something again that needs killing power or repair something with stuff like Tech-Adept for Cawl. Could also use Dunestrider to make sure my Goondozer gets a charge turn 1.

I also don't like to include any Rangers in my lists as it breaks my theme - Ironstrider Cavaliers don't need any footsloggin' infantry - that's heresy!
Good idea about army being on the constant move - I'll try this one out during test games.

Honestly, from what I see, most games are decided in the first three rounds. 9 CP is enough for 3-5. You need to kill so many models that the opponent simply doesn't have enough stuff left to fight with.

You can only use a stratagem once per turn.

You cannot charge after advancing. You can shoot the Ballistariis' guns though due to the Cognis rule. (Doctrina would cancel out the penalty, but you still get -1 from the Heavy weapon. So really, not recommended you ever advance.)

Nobody said the infantry would be around for long. Consider them lookouts.

Suzuteo wrote:
Nobody said the infantry would be around for long. Consider them lookouts.

Oh my I like how you think Spotters for the army, nicely done.

EDIT:
How about this?

As always Suzuteo is master on dragoons. Listen to him especially for a dragoon army.

Still.

Reduce 6 autocannons to 4 and make a dragoon unit to 5. You ll need the option and in close combat and gem using dragoons have 2+ hit 4+ explode for str 8-1 weapons. Better than autocannons. Since you ll be limited with this list

A) use autocannons as advancing units so not so important to get them 6.

B) make 2 group ranger snipers to be able to deal with chars warlords etc. Many roam with secondary warlords for buff options always nice to get a lucky point or just thrat enemy char advancing.

C) keep 2 onagers even if you have to remove autocannon striders. It will keep a tpd with sniper and onagers as a weapon platform rangers can screen and you can still have a survivable option for diffrent armies like spamm transports. Use them as icarus.

Great job once more Suzuteo but spending gems requires more like 6 dragoons 6 lasc 2 onagers 2*5 with 2 arquebus. A more valid options with options if things go bad or you need different deploy etc.

So fast slots would work better like
6 dragoons
1 dragoon

6 lasc
1autoc.

Rest points for onagers snipers with omni. Will perfom better with gems and deploy issues

2 Dragoons for screening. 3 Dragoons to hunt T6 vehicles. 4 Dragoons to hunt T7 vehicles. I hesitate at 5 or 6 because of piling-in issues. To explain, because a Dragoon is longer than 3", you cannot use the 3" pile-in move to take the Dragoon that is "third in line" within 1" of the front model. For a unit of 3, you can do a wedge with two Dragoons side-by-side following a lead Dragoon. For 4, you can create two parallel lines of 2 Dragoons. For 5-6, you must have three lines, which is tough to maneuver.

For Autocannons and Lascannons, the sky is the limit given their range and split-shooting.

Ok you are the dragoon master so the melee drgoon

1*4 dragoons
1*2 dragoons

And just in case you need oitrider keep 2 more.

Yeah, that's good too. I would really just pick the big numbers and play around with the Dragoons. Even just taking the bases out and doing mock charges is helpful to see what I am trying to get at.

Also try to practice "sliding" with your pile-in and consolidation moves. The two best uses are sliding into CC with enemies you did not charge (which ties them in CC without taking overwatch) and sliding to surround a vehicle (which prevents them from falling back, meaning you are relatively safe; this will be super important if Leman Russes make a comeback).

I feel like I'm spinning my wheels right now. Could you hear me out and play a little game called "fill the points" please?
I have a 1500 points "core" that I simply want to play:
That leaves me with 534 points to play with. What should I buy with them?

so best idea for wining tournamnts with mechanicus is runing loads of ironstriders and ondunes?

KurosakiMotas wrote:
so best idea for wining tournamnts with mechanicus is runing loads of ironstriders and ondunes?

Winning tournaments with Ironstriders? Nope. To be honest best way to win tournaments right now is playing IG.

ok what if i'm sick of emperors little errand boys? and want to get as much of an OP AD mech rooster for 1500/2000 point? price doesn;t matter

OP AdMech is entirely reliant on Kastellan Robots, Onagers, and Cawl from Mars with a screen of Stygies vanguard/rangers/dragoons. As far as pure admech goes, that's your best bet. I like to ally in assassins since I'm a dirty heretic though

Jackal444 wrote:
OP AdMech is entirely reliant on Kastellan Robots, Onagers, and Cawl from Mars with a screen of Stygies vanguard/rangers/dragoons. As far as pure admech goes, that's your best bet. I like to ally in assassins since I'm a dirty heretic though

While Martian Kastellans with Cawl are certainly able to give a punch, this is a one trick pony and I expect this army to fail on major tournaments.
Your firepower is concentrated in 4-6 robots which are not invincible at all. And Cawl himself drags the whole army down with his 250pts cost.

I would certainly add IG detachment for screening and objective holding reasons, but in all-AM list i would bet that Ironstrider heavy lists with Stygian dogma will be much more reliable.

I have played only one game with the new codex so far, but other local Mechanicum players seem to have notable sucess with clandestine infiltration heavy lists, dropping ruststalkers and dragoons in front of the enemy. Ruststalkers yield the remarkable number of mortal wounds and haven't suffered from attacks reduction.

i'm wiling to put some sisters in my ad mech (since the got boobs, and we all know burning heretics and having boobs are the best of two worlds) + there is this set with saint celestine and Cawl, should i buy it tomorrow?

Fan67 wrote:

Jackal444 wrote:
OP AdMech is entirely reliant on Kastellan Robots, Onagers, and Cawl from Mars with a screen of Stygies vanguard/rangers/dragoons. As far as pure admech goes, that's your best bet. I like to ally in assassins since I'm a dirty heretic though

While Martian Kastellans with Cawl are certainly able to give a punch, this is a one trick pony and I expect this army to fail on major tournaments.
Your firepower is concentrated in 4-6 robots which are not invincible at all. And Cawl himself drags the whole army down with his 250pts cost.

I would certainly add IG detachment for screening and objective holding reasons, but in all-AM list i would bet that Ironstrider heavy lists with Stygian dogma will be much more reliable.

I have played only one game with the new codex so far, but other local Mechanicum players seem to have notable sucess with clandestine infiltration heavy lists, dropping ruststalkers and dragoons in front of the enemy. Ruststalkers yield the remarkable number of mortal wounds and haven't suffered from attacks reduction.

Wrathbots can drop Magnus in a single round of shooting. That isn't a one-trick pony, that is a consistent gunline. Back it up with good artillery and a nice screen and its going to do a lot of heavy lifting.

Ruststalkers are absolute garbage. Infiltrating them doesn't make them any better. Fulgurites do it better in all ways and even then, that strategy is really unreliable.