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Hello,

Building up a Tank Commander for my mechanized Guard army. Of the various Russ variants, what would be "Best Choice"?

I had originally thought to use a Vanquisher (the long barrel looks kinda cool, and I like the reroll for damage) but evidently this is not a Good Choice.

What should I take instead?

Thanks,

M.

The increased BS makes the punisher a good choice

 Infantryman wrote:
Hello,

Building up a Tank Commander for my mechanized Guard army. Of the various Russ variants, what would be "Best Choice"?

I had originally thought to use a Vanquisher (the long barrel looks kinda cool, and I like the reroll for damage) but evidently this is not a Good Choice.

What should I take instead?

Thanks,

M.

The Vanquisher is unfortunately just inherently designed...incorrectly. It doesn't actually work. The basic battlecannon is a dramatically better anti-tank gun.

The basic Battlecannon isn't a bad choice by any means, the Punisher and Executioner are also both good picks (an Executioner command tank with PC sponsons is putting out a fearsome level of anti-tank firepower when overcharged). The Exterminator is unfortunately simply worse than the Battlecannon in every way, and yet costs more. The Demolisher is powerful, but short ranged and expensive and just doesn't feel worth the investment. The Eradicator's ability to ignore cover just doesn't counterbalance the loss of range and power of the Battlecannon.

I run an executioner with full plasma as my tank commander with a normal and an exterminator as its backups with good results. Exterminators are not as good as the other 2, that's for sure, but it always survives my games because it's the last one that gets targeted.

Tank commanders in executioners are just plain scarry. That's my vote.

I can second the Executioner. Been on the receiving end of them recently and they make short work of multi wound elite infantry.

Ultimately what ever you like. As mentioned above, general consensus is from a gaming POV, the punisher is a very popular choice - 40 shots at increased BS with orders is a scary prospect

I third the Punisher. I've been running a Cadian Punisher with regular crewmen, not a commander, and it still consistently pumps out about 20 wounds a turn. Jacking up the BS with a commander makes it an absolute killing machine.

The standard battle cannon is also pretty darn good because of the range, but can be swingy in damage output. The Punisher always fires 40+ shots, which makes the commander upgrade really solid.

The annihilator is an interesting option that benefits substantially from the increased BS.

 Scott-S6 wrote:
The annihilator is an interesting option that benefits substantially from the increased BS.

Alas, it cannot be made a Tank Commander, nobody amended the Tank Commander entry to include the Lascannon turret option

The ability to order himself to re-roll ones makes the Commander a safe choice for a full Plasma Executioner.

Ultimately, I'd say it depends on the enemy du jour: If facing GEQ hordes, bring the Commander in a Punisher and give him a couple of Punishers as wingmen, if facing MEQs and heavy armor, bring him in an Executioner and give him a couple of Battle Tanks as wingmen.

Sounds like Punisher and Executioner are neck in neck! I had intended to run a Punisher in my group at some point, so I've got the kit. When I did my first Army List, I was suggested to avoid the Executioner on the leader, since I risk losing a ton of wounds on him in one go.

M.

Valdor Tank Hunter

Oh wait, this isn't 30k where the Tank Commander can pick the tank he's in...

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Valdor Tank Hunter

Oh wait, this isn't 30k where the Tank Commander can pick the tank he's in...

I totally would if I could!

Also, it is kind of weird the Annihilator (twin Lascannon) tank isn't an option...

...whatever happened to Lascannon sponsons, too? Weren't those a thing?

M.

 Infantryman wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Valdor Tank Hunter

Oh wait, this isn't 30k where the Tank Commander can pick the tank he's in...

I totally would if I could!

Also, it is kind of weird the Annihilator (twin Lascannon) tank isn't an option...

...whatever happened to Lascannon sponsons, too? Weren't those a thing?

M.

Lascannon sponsons exist for Malcadors, but not for Russes, sadly. Closest thing you can get on a Russ are Multi-Meltas. The Space Marine Predator has lascannon sponsons, of course.

Back when the Shadowsword was 440 points and only had 1d6 shots, I used a trio of Valdors as my superheavy regiment's Tank Destruction company. But now, I think I'm gonna swap to a trio of Shadowswords, because they are amazing.

Want to mulch elites and ding up tanks? Executioner with splas spoons.

Want to present the enemy with hard choices? pair a executioner russ with a battle cannon/hull las commander behind it.

I'll go through my thoughts on all of them. Talking from a mechanics perspective, of course if you like a model still get it even if it's underpowered. You never know what will get buffed/nerfed in the future!

Exterminator: never run this for anything ever, it's worse than the Battlecannon in all but an incredibly narrow set of circumstances.

Vanquisher: also terrible at everything. Mathematically the Battlecannon outperforms it against every target.

Demolisher: interesting. It's good to get those S10 hits to reliably land, but do you really want to have to get your Commander so close? Probably not

Executioner: it's a really close call compared to the Battlecannon. Regular shot is worse against a lot of targets, overcharge slightly better with the AP. The question to ask yourself here is how important is AP -3 over -2. If the answer is 'very' this is a strong contender. What gives me pause on a commander is the potential to take mortal wounds though. You're probably going to want to overcharge most of the time, and if you're already a target due to being a commander, a few self inflicted mortal wounds could easily spell Doom. It's not bad, but handle with care! Range might be an issue on some battlefields too.

Punisher: my my, that's a lot of shots for someone with a good BS! This is really strong IF you expect enemies with crap armour. If expecting marines, it's a wash against power armour compared to the Battlecannon, but with the Battlecannon you have the option to also target armour. It will be situational depending on your enemy. Against swarm nids, boyz, or guard this is pretty nice though!

Eradicator: I don't like this gun much in general. -2 str hurts a lot compared to the Battlecannon. Does the ignoring cover make a decent tradeoff? Ehhhh.... Mileage will vary depending on how you fill out your battlefields, but I'd say generally no. I'm not willing to give up the ability to legitimately threaten most vehicles for it certainly.

Battlecannon: finally, the old standard. You can probably work out where I stand on this. You're shooting an average of 7 shots (without grinding advance) so that's a decent use of your BS, you threaten all vehicles and crush any infantry, from a respectably long range. I love it.

Verdict: for me the winner is the Battlecannon. It's versatile, low risk, and makes sure strong hits land on vital targets where you need them. Really long range means you can sit back and still contribute if it looks a bit dicy out there.

Honourable mentions for Executioner and Punisher.

Why not magnet pattern so you can run what you like

but really.

everything asides from the vanquisher does have merit

maybe the eradicator though that one is super niche. (mostly cover based shenanigans.)

Stux wrote:I'll go through my thoughts on all of them. Talking from a mechanics perspective, of course if you like a model still get it even if it's underpowered. You never know what will get buffed/nerfed in the future!

Exterminator: never run this for anything ever, it's worse than the Battlecannon in all but an incredibly narrow set of circumstances.

Vanquisher: also terrible at everything. Mathematically the Battlecannon outperforms it against every target.

Demolisher: interesting. It's good to get those S10 hits to reliably land, but do you really want to have to get your Commander so close? Probably not

Executioner: it's a really close call compared to the Battlecannon. Regular shot is worse against a lot of targets, overcharge slightly better with the AP. The question to ask yourself here is how important is AP -3 over -2. If the answer is 'very' this is a strong contender. What gives me pause on a commander is the potential to take mortal wounds though. You're probably going to want to overcharge most of the time, and if you're already a target due to being a commander, a few self inflicted mortal wounds could easily spell Doom. It's not bad, but handle with care! Range might be an issue on some battlefields too.

Punisher: my my, that's a lot of shots for someone with a good BS! This is really strong IF you expect enemies with crap armour. If expecting marines, it's a wash against power armour compared to the Battlecannon, but with the Battlecannon you have the option to also target armour. It will be situational depending on your enemy. Against swarm nids, boyz, or guard this is pretty nice though!

Eradicator: I don't like this gun much in general. -2 str hurts a lot compared to the Battlecannon. Does the ignoring cover make a decent tradeoff? Ehhhh.... Mileage will vary depending on how you fill out your battlefields, but I'd say generally no. I'm not willing to give up the ability to legitimately threaten most vehicles for it certainly.

Battlecannon: finally, the old standard. You can probably work out where I stand on this. You're shooting an average of 7 shots (without grinding advance) so that's a decent use of your BS, you threaten all vehicles and crush any infantry, from a respectably long range. I love it.

Verdict: for me the winner is the Battlecannon. It's versatile, low risk, and makes sure strong hits land on vital targets where you need them. Really long range means you can sit back and still contribute if it looks a bit dicy out there.

Honourable mentions for Executioner and Punisher.

Thanks for that! I had planned to run an Exterminator in my force, largely because they looked cool - same as the Vanqusiher - I think I'll scrub both of those. Though, my wife did call dibs on building one for cool reasons...

Desubot wrote:Why not magnet pattern so you can run what you like

but really.

everything asides from the vanquisher does have merit

maybe the eradicator though that one is super niche. (mostly cover based shenanigans.)

Well, with one tank exception (a stock triple bolter battle tank), all hulls are magnetized. Looked at doing magnetic turret guns and wasn't sold on the effect. Might have to check back into that tonight - I had anticipated going to bitz sites and just getting multiple turret bitz, but there seems to be one US Bitz site and it's awful to navigate!

M.

I havent build the demolisher russ, but for the normal russ you can magnet the two halfs of the turret instead of gluing them.

this way you just swap out the turret weps as they come from the spure whitout modifications to them.

 Infantryman wrote:


Well, with one tank exception (a stock triple bolter battle tank), all hulls are magnetized. Looked at doing magnetic turret guns and wasn't sold on the effect. Might have to check back into that tonight - I had anticipated going to bitz sites and just getting multiple turret bitz, but there seems to be one US Bitz site and it's awful to navigate!

M.

Why not ebay.

also you could always magnetize the top hatch only to get the commander sticking out of it.

There are several alternative producers who make their own Not!Leman Russ tanks. The turrets are often sold separatedly and should fit onto a GW Leman Russ chassis. Examples:

http://shop.ramshacklegames.co.uk/index.php?id_category=40&controller=category

https://bitsofwar.com/12-vehicles-vehicle-bits

Executioner, battlecannons, and Punishers tend to get you the best bang for your buck

Also, and this probably goes without saying, but if you're going to have any Hunter Killer Missiles on your Russes, make sure they go on your Commanders first!

What regiment are you thinking of doing for your tank Commander? If your considering doing Cadians you should definitely do a Pask, the BS2 is surprisingly more effective than BS3.

Pask is so hilariously underpriced that, together with the Cadian tank order to give your tanks the Catachan Regimental Doctrine ON TOP of the Cadian Regimental doctrine, AND the Warlord trait which lets you apply said order to multiple Leman Russ at once, you actually need considerable willpower to justify running tank-heavy Spearhead detachements as anything other than Cadian.

WatcherZero wrote:
What regiment are you thinking of doing for your tank Commander? If your considering doing Cadians you should definitely do a Pask, the BS2 is surprisingly more effective than BS3.

Tallarn (since "None" isn't actually a Real Thing). I prefer to be mobile, because that would be less boring.

I'm actually not taking characters (as yet).

M.

 Esmer wrote:
Pask is so hilariously underpriced that, together with the Cadian tank order to give your tanks the Catachan Regimental Doctrine ON TOP of the Cadian Regimental doctrine, AND the Warlord trait which lets you apply said order to multiple Leman Russ at once, you actually need considerable willpower to justify running tank-heavy Spearhead detachements as anything other than Cadian.

Agreed, Pask is incredible. Just the 2+ BS alone would be amazing, I can't overemphasize how good that is on a Russ. Compared to a regular Commander that's half the misses! For the same price as an Augur Array!

With the Cadian doctrine too, that means if Pask doesn't move, all shots have a 97% chance to hit (you need to roll two 1s on 2d6 to miss)

And then 2 orders per turn is just gravy.

Take pask + Punisher, IMHO.

On paper in a vacuum, the executioner is basically a preference choice given the AP vs range+safety.

You also have to consider all possible sources of a -1 to hit aura/trait/etc., though. Because of the order the modifiers are made, I'm pretty sure that if you roll a 2 to hit using plasma weapons, you wound yourself. Even if you're cadian rerolling 1s. (please correct me if I'm wrong, with page numbers if possible! thanks)

I prefer the Battle Tank over the Executioner.

The range is nice, and against most targets performance is similar with out the small chance of self destructing.