Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi, so let me resume this:

When i started painting space marines i first put a base of (skull white or ceramite white) then apply colors and finally the citadel gloss (ardcoat). i never use primer or spray paint.

Then years passed and i say to myself "why do i need to put white or black as a base?" So i just use any color directly to the plastic and then diluted gloss or matt vallejo varnish.

Years passed and you can scratch my marines and nothing happens. Then i stop painting in 2014 and return this year, so i got a "know no fear" blue sprue marines and paint then as deathwatch.

So i first paint abbadon black and then another layer of that color (all hand) then add other colors and (this time i did not have gloss citadel) i diluted gloss vallejo and applied and then next day i applied matt vallejo......SO.....as my own experience...nothing wrong will happend....but....it came that if you scratch the model all paint come off.....that intrige me.....why does this happens now?

So i made an experiment on a broder of a sprue....i paint abbadon black x2 and then gloss vallejo (without diluting in water) and next day it did not come of just if you scratch harder. So i add matt vallejo varnish without water and next day happens the same....0 chips (just if you go harder). But....why my old marines resist hard scratch? You can throw them in a bag, carry them and nothing happens....even rhinos or dread (plastic or metal).


So i dont have gloss citadel at hand right now (nobody sells it here....it is hard to get citadel paint here....) to make a test with it....so far i "assume" that either if you prime or not and after paint you scratch it will come off....but varnish makes a seal cover that make nails, or any other things to slip and dont take off the paint of the plastic.....so, if vallejos varnishes did not got that result on my 3 inceptors....i deduct:

- you dont have to add water to the vallejo varnishes never

- vallejo varnishes dont seal citadel paint as the citadel gloss/ardcoat

- citadel gloss/ardcoat with or without waer seals perfect the paint even if on top you add vallejo matte.


As a FAQ i never used spray paints or primers i have always paint by hand and brush.


Hope to get some answers and solve the mistery .__.v

Or more likely its the plastic used in the know no fear set .
I dont prime and use a mix of gw and Vallejo paints with Vallejo watered down varnish and haven't had any issue with paint coming off

Soooo yesterday i did a little experiment. A paint abbadon black x2 in the blade of the sword of a space marine (the normal grey plastic) and in the night i apply vallejo gloss with no water.

Today in the morning i scratch and.......it came off.....soooo right now the only option left is test the citadel gloss (ardcoat) (when i find one) and pray nothing happens.....

Dont know if this years i did not paint they change the formula of the paints and now are less resistant...who knows...

It could be a change in the formula of the paints. Usually I go prime with whatever I have and when finished with painting apply W&N Galleria Matt Varnish with airbrush. When I am too lazy I use the same varnish with paintrbrush. It brush on hand really nice too.

I experimented with an exelent product line my local art sypliers have. Amsterdamn black spray paint. Worked very well as an undecoat. Satt well, was not to thick, and did not scratch off unless you really really try.

Right now I am using a bears on my nids. It is not as thin, but stil very good. Just remember to let dry for a really long time.

This is what my black spray looks like.

http://www.yandlesartandcrafts.co.uk/amsterdam-spray-paint-400ml-oxide-black/p870

I sprayed them on the spurce. Asves a lot of time and odd angels.

They did entirely change their line of paints only a few years back.
All new colours, pots and paint formula.

Also, I believe the pre-coloured plastics are slightly different to normal grey.

Thanks for the advices and answers.

I knew they changed the paint names but dont know if they also changed the formula, i also assume that even with ardcoat it will not help.

I forgot to tell that all my paint are new so no old ones mixed with new ones. Even the vallejos varnishes are new (new brushes also). And here in Peru we dont have stores just for this kind of hobby. We have 2 o 3 but they sell what they want to buy so.....it is dissapointing deal with this issue -____-

Please prime. It makes your life so much easier. That way, you never waste paint that will slough off quickly. Also it's amazing that you live in Peru. How do you get your models and paints?!

Well ebay mostly the models. Also this year i trip to chile.....they have many things there. And looooong time ago when i started, there was a community here and a store mostly for model kits. So in those times it was easy to gather things.

Now if you buy is just to play with some friends or collect. There ir no living community of any wargamming game here.....at least if say "ther are 10 people that play warmachine" counts as a community.

There's a whole bunch of things that are going to effect how easily paint scratches off, just things off the top of my head...

- How long did you wait from painting to scratching? Paint takes time to cure, even after it's dry to the touch it takes longer to actually fully harden. Paint gets harder over the course of days, weeks, even months. Scratching paint on something you painted last year will be harder than something last week all other things being equal.

- How clean is the plastic?

- How clean were your hands while handling the plastic (either with dirt/grime/oils, or even just the natural oils your fingers give off)?

- How thick was the paint? Paint has a critical thickness where it's toughest, any thinner and it'll scratch easily but also any thicker and it'll scratch easier (largely due to how easy or hard it is to dig in to it).

- Surface finish of the plastic? More glossy plastic will tend to not hold paint as well.

- Surface finish of the final object? Matte is easier to scratch even if there's a layer of gloss under it because the matte finish gives your finger nail something to bite on and dig in.

- What colour? Different colours have different adhesion properties, some more chalky colours will scratch more easily.

- What gloss? Not all gloss varnishes are created equal. I haven't tested all gloss varnishes on the market, but I did spend some time playing around with the handful I own and found significant differences in their strength. I remember Humbrol Clear and Tamiya Gloss being the toughest of the brush on varieties.

That's not even touching on the variables that arise when we also start talking about spray paints.