Earth127 wrote:

 Zakiriel wrote:
Yes lets make inferior space marines.
30% less muscle mass especially in the upper body where most combat strength is located.
Less bone density that only gets worse over time.
Toxic shock issues from poor hygiene in space armor suits for long periods of time in the field.

Yeah this will work well and not be an utter waste of time and resources to make a less effective super soldier.

Females already serve the Emperor in the Army and the Navy as well as in certain other specialty organizations because they can and do excel in them.
The Astartes is not suited to females at all. If you want women in powered armor please inquire with the Sororitas.

As I said in the previous locked thread. None of that happens pre-puberty wich is when the SM implantation process begins. SM organs override normal development. This argument is invalid especially in a universe with space magic and ... well everything 40k has.

 Galas wrote:
The reason I'm strongly agaisnt female space marines is because it would make SoB even more obsolete than what they are allready now, and would basically mean that we aren't gonna receive new SoB models.

But at the same time I wouldn't be agaisnt a Space Wolf Valkirie unit.

 Crimson wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
However, implying that everyone who doesn't like Female Space Marines "can't handle the change" is an incredibly reductionist, and some may argue, condescending, approach.

Not wanting things to change is pretty normal. I didn't want Necrons to be shoehorned into the Eldar background and when that was already done, I didn't want the Necrons to be changed from merciless automatons to emo-robot-space-Egyptians. I absolutely didn't wan to see a loyalist to Primarch return, nor did I want the Cawl to alter marine gene-seed to create super marines (nor did I want to see Klingons redesigned yet again, though that's not a matter for this forum.) But all that happened regardless. Then again, some changes can be good. The Primaris models are nice, Tau were a welcome addition to the setting and Ynnari seem potentially intresting.

Do you genuinely believe that's the only reason people don't want it?

No, some people unfortunately have other reasons too. But I don't want to assume more unsavoury motivations without any substantial evidence. (I am absolutely not talking about any specific individuals in this thread, only in general.)

 Crimson wrote:

 Galas wrote:
You know Sir Morien was conceived in the South of Spain with a Moor princess when his father Anglovale was searching for Lancelot, don't you?. He wasnt from or wasnt living in the northern parts of europe until he did go there searching for his father.

So he wasn't in the northern Europe until he went there? But he went there. And then he became a Knight of the Round Table.

And, even then, is not like those knights are real historical characters.

But it was plausible enough story for the people at those times.

There were black people in northern Europe in the middle ages. Obviously not terriibly many, but they existed. So if there are some black people in a period drama, it is not PC revisionism gone mad, it is being accurate.

https://www.historyextra.com/period/tudor/the-missing-tudors-black-people-in-16th-century-england/

 Formosa wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
for the record. Let's call a spade a spade regarding the "representation" arguement. That ENTIRE ARGUMENT is build on the presupposition that a majority of people are both sexist and racist. a presupposition I for one reject.

Well that's a complete non sequitur.

Yeah kinda came out of nowhere and isnt whats happening here??

 Dark wrote:
I think that, in the end, lore could stay as is, but GW could profit a lot from selling sprues with helmeted and unhelmeted female heads that one could fir onto guardsmen, cultist and marine bodies so those who want to have 'em in their headcanon could do so.

Personally, I'm not a fan of c hanging the setting there, but if I have to face someone who's happier int he hobby saying "my chapter found a way with <insert here a plausible cause> for indictung females" and I'd be 100% okay with that.

 Quickjager wrote:
...Is no one going to mention the fething OP made their account in June of 2017? And never posted before LITERALLY today?

No one is seeing the person stirring a pot for the gak of it?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also Niiai you said you were leaving this conversation? Yet you still are here bringing up the same point the mods keep warning us about?

beast_gts wrote:
After reading 'Ashes of Prospero', I'm more interested in the Wolves' human thralls and Navigator Navis guard becoming playable sub-factions.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

beast_gts wrote:
After reading 'Ashes of Prospero', I'm more interested in the Wolves' human thralls and Navigator Navis guard becoming playable sub-factions.

I'd LOOOOVE to see "Codex Chapter serfs"

Ditto. For something that's so important to a marine chapter (as in, needed for the chapter to actually function), serfs aren't really expanded upon.
Having serfs on the battlefield would also solve the in game disconnect of marines being cannon fodder on the table but gods in the fluff, as you'd have serfs to fulfil that role.
I always liked that about Warriors of Chaos. You have your small units of Chaos Warriors supported by large formations of marauders. It was a cool idea.
In addition, to my knowledge there has not been any explicit statement that women cannot be chapter serfs, so that could be a fluffy way of incorporating women in a space marine army.

 Niiai wrote:
It is not sexist, or at least I do not think it is sexist? Do you think it is sexist? People who are very against marines based upon females keep bringing up the word sexist. And the people who would like to see female marines do not seem to use the word sexist that often.

I like the humour of the 40K setting. It is pulpy and funny. When it tryes to be tolitarian it can be spott on why fachismn is so bad, as in the film Star Ship Troopers by Paul Verhoeven. It is fun in every way the book is not. (Do not read the book at that author actually tryed to glorfy fashismn.) But the lack of marines based upon females just feels very odd. It is like I am stuck in a Stanislaw Lem book where I can not identefy with the aliens in his books. It is not that I do not like it, it is that I do not get it.

Techpriestsupport wrote:

 Quickjager wrote:
Then continuing this is beyond merit as much as me wanting Tau to be squats. No reason to continue this thread if it's opinions and that is reserved to the off topic board

If we have to have female MEQs.......

There is a RPG called eclipse phase that has something useful here. In EP there was a super soldier project that produced a series of upgrades meant to make a 'super soldier '. The good news: it indeed turned men into super soldiers! Tougher! Stronger! Faster! Meaner! The bad news: it made men uncontrollable psycho berzerkers.

Now after decades of R&D and a bazillion dollars the people behind the SS project weren't to happy to see it going up in smoke. Someone had a little brainstorm: Apply the upgrade to women! After some test cases it was proven the SS treatment made women superior fighters without turning them into khorne cultists in training.

So the project went ahead and the resultant super soldiers we're called 'Furies'.

OK suppose cawl had a few relatives he saw some potential in and put to good use. Say a particularly bright niece of his was recruited to help uncle belly out.

Now while exploring the galaxy looking for Useful Things she came across a planet that had been settled by humans who had suffered a calamity early on and lost their technology. The females were all exceptionally large, strong, smart and tough, the males became mindless beastial animals after puberty. Studying this fascinating little world little Cawlette found out a very sophisticated little symbiot lived on it. This symbiot lived inside larger organisms and had the interesting ability of analyzing their hosts and releasing biochem compounds that made the host a better survivor.

Unfortunately it made men too aggressive and violent to function as members of society. Women became more aggressive but not incapable of reason. The symbiot also released countless tiny, Hydra like organisms that worked to heal and maintain the host, giving the hosts rapid healing abilities.

Well, after studying this situation for a couple decades l'il Cawlette finally ran home yelling "Uncly Belly! Look it what I found!"

Patting his niece on her shiny gold plated head uncle belly told her to go study this for a while and come up with uses for it. After several centuries of study and a few bad love affairs l'il Cawlette seeded a few carefully selected feral worlds with the symbiots and observed the results. In each case the male populace degenerated into raving savages after puberty, the females grew larger , stronger, faster , tougher, more aggressive, more intelligent and cunning.

The potential for a new warrior type was quickly realized and developed. Recruiting the females at initial puberty allowed a series of treatments and implants to augment them eger further with. Minimal risk and effort. Their superior minds we're able to accept intense training and conditioning. Armor and weapons we're developed for them by a n AM forgeworld under L'Il Cawlette's control.. Vast numbers of them we're created, trained, equipped and out in deep. Stasis to await the imperium's hour of deepest need.

I think I would make them in several types. None would have a full marine statline but their cod be assault types who have s4, t4 and good CC stats. Another type would be shooting troops with lower S and T but damn good shots.

All could have a special ability similar to plague marines disgusting resilience or necron resurrection called 'symbiotic healing" that let's them try to recover before being removed.

Call them the Emperor's Furies and you've got yourselves a badass all female imperial elite force. Arm them with some new AM weapons like, say, rail rifles and fractal talons.

Techpriestsupport wrote:
That wouldn't. Satisfy some. People. Also the sisters are supposed to be fairly low in numbers. I once heard that are like far less than a million in the imeprium since each once by tradition has to go to terra to take their vows. Before the emperor.

And how numerous as the SoS?