Author |
Message |
|
|
|
Advert
|
Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
- No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
- Times and dates in your local timezone.
- Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
- Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
- Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now. |
|
|
2018/03/18 20:48:11
Subject: Top tier codexes & indexes
|
|
Tough-as-Nails Ork Boy
|
Hello
The question is simple;
Right now, what are the faction ranking in the game? top tier, mid tier and low tier
I'll try to keep the average of all post in this first post: do you agree, do you disagree?
On 06/04/18
TOP TIER:
- Craftworlds
- Tyranids
- Astra Militarum
- Chaos Space Marines
- Blood Angels
- Soups (Imperium, Chaos or Eldars)
MID TIER:
- Drukhari
- Death Guard
- Dark Angels
- Space Marines
- Thousand Sons
- Chaos Daemons
- Tau
- Necrons
- Custodes
- Sisters of battle (index)
LOW TIER
- Adeptus Mechanicus
- Grey Knights
- Space Wolves (index)
- Deathwatch (index)
- Orks (index)
- Genestealer Cults (index)
|
This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2018/04/12 15:22:06
Imperials fists 2060 Orks 1100
Firestorm and Star Wars Armada |
|
|
|
2018/03/18 22:10:10
Subject: Top tier codexes
|
|
Waaagh! Ork Warboss
Italy
|
Imperium and chaos soups are the most effective armies at the moment.
Eldar and tyranids are also very solid but the most effective eldar lists are tournaments exclusive as only a few people in the world actually own 20+ dark reapers and while tyranids have tons of effective options they're far from being overpowered.
Among pure armies AM is still the most competitive one.
The only real low tier army is GK, they really struggle without allies. But IMHO it's because they shouldn't be an independent faction, but part of a larger one that includes SoB, inquisition, custodes and Ad Mech.
|
|
|
|
|
2018/03/18 22:21:19
Subject: Top tier codexes
|
|
Fate-Controlling Farseer
|
Blackie wrote:Imperium and chaos soups are the most effective armies at the moment.
Eldar and tyranids are also very solid but the most effective eldar lists are tournaments exclusive as only a few people in the world actually own 20+ dark reapers and while tyranids have tons of effective options they're far from being overpowered.
Among pure armies AM is still the most competitive one.
The only real low tier army is GK, they really struggle without allies. But IMHO it's because they shouldn't be an independent faction, but part of a larger one that includes SoB, inquisition, custodes and Ad Mech.
I'm trying to sell 25 dark reapers, and no one wants them. I think more people have access to it then a "few".
|
Full Frontal Nerdity |
|
|
|
2018/03/18 22:35:03
Subject: Top tier codexes
|
|
Waaagh! Ork Warboss
Italy
|
djones520 wrote: Blackie wrote:Imperium and chaos soups are the most effective armies at the moment.
Eldar and tyranids are also very solid but the most effective eldar lists are tournaments exclusive as only a few people in the world actually own 20+ dark reapers and while tyranids have tons of effective options they're far from being overpowered.
Among pure armies AM is still the most competitive one.
The only real low tier army is GK, they really struggle without allies. But IMHO it's because they shouldn't be an independent faction, but part of a larger one that includes SoB, inquisition, custodes and Ad Mech.
I'm trying to sell 25 dark reapers, and no one wants them. I think more people have access to it then a "few".
I disagree. They're very old monopose models, only power creep players could be interested in owning more than 5-10 of them. And a nerf on dark reapers is rumored basically since the release of the eldar codex. It's no surprise that 25 dark reapers are hard to sell, unless massive discount.
|
|
|
|
|
2018/03/18 22:55:05
Subject: Top tier codexes
|
|
Regular Dakkanaut
|
From what I gather from listening to various podcasts, Eldar Dark Reaper spam and Flying Hive Tyrant/Spore spam are the top two tournament lists with Eldar having the slight edge.
|
Iron Warriors
Grey Knights
Iron within, iron without! |
|
|
|
2018/03/18 23:15:43
Subject: Re:Top tier codexes
|
|
Matthew Ward
UK
|
IMO (stand alone codexes, no index armies) Top Tier Eldar - turns out reapers are good Tyranids - flyrants eat things Astra Militarum (Imperial Guard) - everything can be taken more of less, no bad options Chaos Space Marines - a nice mix of cheap to expensive in 1 book Blood Angels - hit things reallllllly hard til they stop moving Mid Tier Dark Angels - I heard you like plasma Space Marines - generic toolbox Thousand Sons - own the psychic phase, but unless you have cultists / tzaangors, its expensive ppm Chaos Daemons - Mono god doesn't really work, but combined gods... Death Guard - like TS but less psychic Low Tier Custodes - elite model syndrome Adeptus Mechanicus - very shooty, but that's about all Grey Knights - like custodes, but less killy source: my impressions when I read the codex (I have a habit of buying them all) This doesn't account for the soup lists which are very strong (unless you're a nid player, in which case you turn things to soup)
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/19 10:19:04
Enjoy!
Artosey.
Forces
Current
Mars Stygies Expeditionary Force; Thousand Sons Warband
Inactive, retired, lost, got rid of:
Emp Children Taskforce (disbanded); Chaos Undivi (AWOL); Orkses (Warboss slain before Waaaaagh); Blood Angels 8th Company (retired); Eldar Liberation Force (lost in the warp) |
|
|
|
2018/03/19 08:39:31
Subject: Top tier codexes
|
|
Tough-as-Nails Ork Boy
|
Thank you
And with the indexes?
With the Tau?
|
Imperials fists 2060 Orks 1100
Firestorm and Star Wars Armada |
|
|
|
2018/03/19 08:50:53
Subject: Top tier codexes
|
|
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
Harlequins - mid tier
DE - might be mid tier with some builds, low tier otherwise
Ork - boyz spam is mid tier, but anything else is low tier
Ynnari - mid tier by itself. CWE/Ynnari soup is top tier
|
|
|
|
2018/03/19 09:01:34
Subject: Top tier codexes
|
|
Ship's Officer
London
|
Tau are in that weird place where we haven’t seen if they are any good post codex. If there’s an Uber build I’m not seeing it yet, but they look ok. The same goes for necrons.
Chaos soup lists are right up there at the moment - maybe even ahead of Eldar.
|
|
|
|
2018/03/19 09:11:32
Subject: Top tier codexes
|
|
Waaagh! Ork Warboss
Italy
|
Orks and drukhari are low tiers that can win against top tiers thanks to the rock-paper-scissor syndrome. An ork greentide can win if it faces a top tier list that invested hundreds of points in anti tank, while drukhari can melt competitive armored lists if they bring tons of lances.
|
|
|
|
|
2018/03/19 09:12:25
Subject: Top tier codexes
|
|
Been Around the Block
Desio - Italy
|
This discussion is pointless if you don't specify the tules that you are going to use:
- ITC or ETC with their own mission and objectives?
- HEAT gw format with their limits?
- Homebrew format?
- Smite with nerf or not?
The difference between the rule set is huge: Chaos and Orks have a level of effectiveness really high in comparison to eldar if you play a gt, you can just take a look to the top list in this kind of event.
|
Chaos Marines since the beginning - For The Dark Gods |
|
|
|
2018/03/19 09:45:49
Subject: Top tier codexes
|
|
Tough-as-Nails Ork Boy
|
Of course, we can agree on the fact that this list may vary in fonction of:
- the build
- the army you face (rock-paper-scissor syndrome)
- the set of rules
And some information can be found on sites like bloodofkittens.com
But it's a simplification that help understand the meta and to have a good excuse when you lose :p
Feel free to disagree
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/19 09:46:16
Imperials fists 2060 Orks 1100
Firestorm and Star Wars Armada |
|
|
|
2018/03/19 11:16:09
Subject: Top tier codexes
|
|
Regular Dakkanaut
|
No-ones seemed to touch on Genestealer Cults yet :(
At the moment GSC is garbage against any army that can properly screen but it does have a niche in facilitating tyranid soup by allying in guard, and by having very powerful deepstriking anti-armor (habberants and saw acolytes).
Hopefully the codex will change things
|
|
|
|
2018/03/19 17:35:08
Subject: Top tier codexes
|
|
Fresh-Faced New User
|
Not a single mention of space Wolves either sadday
|
|
|
|
2018/03/19 17:46:33
Subject: Top tier codexes
|
|
Regular Dakkanaut
|
I'm not sure Custodes suffer from Elite Model syndrome, given how cheap and how elite those models are. It depends on the tournament format.
|
|
|
|
2018/03/19 20:00:37
Subject: Top tier codexes
|
|
Tough-as-Nails Ork Boy
|
Do we rise Custodes to mid tier?
The games i did against... i losted... but i'm not that good so...
|
Imperials fists 2060 Orks 1100
Firestorm and Star Wars Armada |
|
|
|
2018/03/19 21:28:40
Subject: Top tier codexes
|
|
Norn Queen
|
I think Tau are going to move towards nids pretty quickly. It doesnt have as much amazing internal balance but its pretty damn good with a lot of really good options.
|
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
|
|
|
|
2018/03/19 21:33:43
Subject: Top tier codexes
|
|
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator
|
I think there's a Grey Knights tier in 40k. And none of the other books belong in it.
Adeptus Mechanicus and especially Adeptus Custodes are much better than Grey Knights, imo. I'd actually have Custodes as a mid/high tier codex, I think ya'll are sleeping on what an army with a Custodes detachment as its core can do.
|
|
|
|
2018/03/20 00:32:39
Subject: Top tier codexes
|
|
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion
|
meleti wrote:I think there's a Grey Knights tier in 40k. And none of the other books belong in it.
Adeptus Mechanicus and especially Adeptus Custodes are much better than Grey Knights, imo. I'd actually have Custodes as a mid/high tier codex, I think ya'll are sleeping on what an army with a Custodes detachment as its core can do.
Yeah I agree, custodes are a solid middle tier, they are VERY good at what they do. they benifit greatly from support mind you, but can operate on their own reasonably well. Grey Knights try to do too much and suffer as a result by comparison
|
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two |
|
|
|
2018/03/20 00:58:57
Subject: Top tier codexes
|
|
Freaky Flayed One
|
Necrons are definitely low low tier.
|
Necrons 7500+
IG 4000+
Custodes 2500
Knights 1500
Chaos / Daemons / Death Guard : 7500+ |
|
|
|
2018/03/20 02:11:34
Subject: Top tier codexes
|
|
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
It's still funny to me that people whined about the original admech codex so much people still think it's bad.
I'll say admech are solidly on par with my deathguard and CSM armies. A bit more monobuild but our codex has half the options of many that's not shocking. Perhaps a little weaker simply elder shut us down really hard atm (and guard are still pretty much a better version of us).
I'm also not sure how custodes move out of low tier, they just can't be used with any success without allies. I've faced good spam builds of mono custodes with less competitive builds of my main armies, who are fairly middle of the road themselves, and felt I still had the upper hand from sheer point efficiency.
|
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/03/20 02:14:52
|
|
|
|
2018/03/20 02:51:53
Subject: Top tier codexes
|
|
Fixture of Dakka
|
Eldar isn't a Codex. And the top tier part of Craftworlds involves Ynnari, which also isn't a Codex.
|
"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."
This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.
Freelance Ontologist
When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life. |
|
|
|
2018/03/20 03:03:49
Subject: Top tier codexes
|
|
Charing Cold One Knight
|
DarknessEternal wrote:Eldar isn't a Codex. And the top tier part of Craftworlds involves Ynnari, which also isn't a Codex.
What are you talking about? The Eldar Codex came out months ago.
|
|
|
|
2018/03/20 03:09:43
Subject: Top tier codexes
|
|
Regular Dakkanaut
|
meleti wrote:I think there's a Grey Knights tier in 40k. And none of the other books belong in it.
Adeptus Mechanicus and especially Adeptus Custodes are much better than Grey Knights, imo. I'd actually have Custodes as a mid/high tier codex, I think ya'll are sleeping on what an army with a Custodes detachment as its core can do.
Agreed. Dumpster Tier. Home to: GK, Index Deathwatch (non-primaris)
I'm hoping against hope that DW won't suffer GK's fate, but since GW seems to be incapable of understanding how to cost a marine statline in 8th.....
|
|
|
|
2018/03/20 03:12:37
Subject: Top tier codexes
|
|
Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight
|
BrianDavion wrote: meleti wrote:I think there's a Grey Knights tier in 40k. And none of the other books belong in it.
Adeptus Mechanicus and especially Adeptus Custodes are much better than Grey Knights, imo. I'd actually have Custodes as a mid/high tier codex, I think ya'll are sleeping on what an army with a Custodes detachment as its core can do.
Yeah I agree, custodes are a solid middle tier, they are VERY good at what they do. they benifit greatly from support mind you, but can operate on their own reasonably well. Grey Knights try to do too much and suffer as a result by comparison
IMO Grey Knights try to do too little. They have a bunch of a specific kind of firepower, but nothing else. And they are definitely in a league of their own.
Custodes (specifically bikers) are solid and mid-tier because all the stuff they pay for is complimentary. They don't suffer from glass cannon syndrome nor gun-less tank syndrome, they have good firepower on a durable platform that can get into optimal engagement range.
|
Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment. |
|
|
|
2018/03/20 03:27:34
Subject: Top tier codexes
|
|
Daemonic Dreadnought
|
Death Guard is not top tier?
|
|
|
|
|
2018/03/20 03:54:56
Subject: Top tier codexes
|
|
Renegade Inquisitor with a Bound Daemon
Tied and gagged in the back of your car
|
meleti wrote:I think there's a Grey Knights tier in 40k. And none of the other books belong in it.
Adeptus Mechanicus and especially Adeptus Custodes are much better than Grey Knights, imo. I'd actually have Custodes as a mid/high tier codex, I think ya'll are sleeping on what an army with a Custodes detachment as its core can do.
Admech has some serious problems as an army and some of the worst units in the game, but enough strong points to lift it well above the abyss that Grey Knights are at right now.
Custodes are basically strictly better Grey Knights with better utility through some absolutely killer stratagems. They can't function with any competitive viability on their own, but with the right support, they can be incredibly scary additions to greater Imperium armies.
As far as the current state of (Craftworld) Eldar are concerned, once Reapers (and Spears) get their well deserved nerf, unless other units get some significant rebalancing, expect them to drop to low pretty low tier positions. The aspects kind of suck outside of those two (Fire Dragons are okay, I guess), and Guardian spam does not inspire me. I'm not holding my breath for Dark Eldar either, as GW hasn't really shown any sign of having a good idea for what to do with them since 5th edition, but I'd love to be proved wrong. Imperial Guard will find its way back to the top dog position with no real contenders.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/20 03:58:39
|
|
|
|
2018/03/20 04:49:33
Subject: Top tier codexes
|
|
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
Custodes is one that changes heavily based on if it is a solo army or the core of a mixed build. Anything that can he then extra CP and some bodies makes them much better, but on their own they often get destroyed.
It basically has a single proven high level build, focused around spamming a single unit. You could argue that's really low upper tier or high level mid tier.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/20 04:50:01
|
|
|
|
2018/03/20 05:51:59
Subject: Top tier codexes
|
|
Fixture of Dakka
|
NH Gunsmith wrote: DarknessEternal wrote:Eldar isn't a Codex. And the top tier part of Craftworlds involves Ynnari, which also isn't a Codex.
What are you talking about? The Eldar Codex came out months ago.
You are mistaken. There is no Codex Eldar.
|
"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."
This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.
Freelance Ontologist
When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life. |
|
|
|
2018/03/20 06:04:05
Subject: Top tier codexes
|
|
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
Orks and Custodes are absolutely mid tier. The rest are appropriate.
|
|
|
|
|
|