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Made in gb
Latest Wrack in the Pits





The Official 2018/2019 Warhammer 40,000 Grand Tournament Season drops army size to 1750 points.

https://warhammerworld.games-workshop.com/the-official-2018-2019-warhammer-40000-grand-tournament/

Thoughts? How will it affect your meta?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/17 07:17:24



 
   
Made in us
Infiltrating Naga





Huntsville, Texas

I think it is a good call, and hopefully other tournament organisers will do something similar.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




 NH Gunsmith wrote:
I think it is a good call, and hopefully other tournament organisers will do something similar.


Agreed. I don't think other organisers will. ITC/ETC and other big tournaments seem to view GW GTs with a fairly high level of contempt so they'll probably ignore what seems to be a reasonable decision on GW's part. My club has been playing 1750 since 8th edition landed and we've found that even relatively slow players can get a game completed from deployment to final turn in 2.5 hours. In general I think it'd be interesting if tournaments had more variety in their points limits and mission structures, if only to make people think a bit more about their armies. I'm sure it comes down to TOs being risk averse with their rulesets due to the costs involved in running a tournament - you don't want your different set of rules to turn too many people away.
   
Made in fi
Fixture of Dakka





1500 would be even better but this is preferable to 2k

“Nothing has a definite nature, so people cannot be purely evil. Even so-called evil people will aspire to follow a moral path when they feel a sense of community.” – Kukai

8100 pts
5150 pts
~3200 pts Knights
 
   
Made in gb
Most Glorious Grey Seer






Long as it allows people to include Fun Units, I'm up for that.

Nowt worse than a points level that means you can't take your favourite Big Boy to war.

Fed up for Scalpers? Why not join us? 
   
Made in ca
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler




Don't like it at all.
   
Made in gb
Been Around the Block




I think it's a good move. Having to make hard decisions, rather than allowing you to take pretty much anything, makes the game better IMO.
   
Made in it
Longtime Dakkanaut




tneva82 wrote:
1500 would be even better but this is preferable to 2k


This.
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

Less points are preferable.
I would even consider 1650 or 1500 pts for larger tourneys.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in us
Blood-Raging Khorne Berserker






As much as I don't like that idea, it's probably a necessity. I've only been to a few tournaments, mostly local. The one big tournament was about 50 people, but that I've had some crazy stuff with how to build your army.

7,500  
   
Made in us
Glorious Grot Banna Wava




For tournaments we've found 1500 to be about the sweet spot. at 1000, the first turn matters overmuch and there's almost no way to get battles to go to objectives turn 4-5. We tried a 1000pt format with "sudden death" objectives that were meant to be achievable on a crushing victory, or "normal" objectives achieved turn 4-5, and while we had about half games going to the normal objectives the sudden death objectives popped up pretty frequently.

At 1500 though it's a lot harder to load everything into an alpha strike and just hose whole armies down.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut



London

Good move. I like to run basic stuff but with a guard army it is simply too many models to play at a decent clip and not ruin the experience for the other chap. Anything which means I can go down that route and not worry about taking expensive stuff to speed up play is good in my book.
   
Made in gb
Been Around the Block




I don't think its a good idea because:

1. They have spent a year balancing their game based upon feedback from 2k points.

2. They are currently pitching their premiere competitive event, where each game round is 30 min less than you can expect at most other uk events, and then reducing its points by 1/8th.

3. They have recently released anti spam rules, which inherently become less effective at a reduced point value.

4. If its hard to make balanced competitive lists at 2k, which can cover the bases to defeat the crazy hyper competitive lists, imagine how much more difficult it will be with 1/8th of the tools.

5. The competitive community (which lets face it GTs are aimed at) has spend a year learning how to play a 2k meta, invalidating a lot of 'game feel'.

6. They are cutting their potential sales to competitive players by an 8th if this becomes adopted widely.

7. There are better ways to make sure that games go to time. (like having more than 5 2.5 hour rounds over 3 days!).

And that's why unlike last year, I wont be buying a ticket this time around.

Speaking as someone who qualified for the final in a heat, and then decided to not attend the final due to the (imo) bad 3 day 5 short game schedule and 4 weeks of planning time i had after waiting for the FAQ to drop.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/17 11:57:52


 
   
Made in es
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets




Vigo. Spain.

I like 1750. 2000 feels like you can have everything you want (Unless you play space marines and use subpar units ) , and 1500 feels too small of a force for me, I like to change my list from game to game, but thats a bit too much.

1750 is a sweet spot in the middle. For 1000 point games I prefer to just use other sistems and go to play some skirmish level game.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in gb
Been Around the Block




Norway.

 Mushkilla wrote:
The Official 2018/2019 Warhammer 40,000 Grand Tournament Season drops army size to 1750 points.

https://warhammerworld.games-workshop.com/the-official-2018-2019-warhammer-40000-grand-tournament/

Thoughts? How will it affect your meta?


Noooo, really?!
It was really down to this or chess clocks.
I like it!

-Wibe. 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Makes sense. The reality is that the hope/promise/assumption that 8th would play faster than before isn't true. In fact its often slower. Something had to give, reduced points is probably the easiest solution.
   
Made in us
Potent Possessed Daemonvessel





The issue GW had with 8th is they made if faster to play 8th if you used armies similar to 7th....but made infantry so good that spamming 100s of models is superior in every way to running tanks etc. They also added CP giving players another point of decision which slows things down, and made re-rolls super prevalent (no more re-roll saves, but tons of re-roll hits, wounds, and FNP mechanics that are slow).

5th ed was the fastest edition I have played and that was in large part that mechanized forces were king. Moving 10 boxes around the table is much faster than 100 individual models. Now they were too powerful in 5th, however I think they have been over corrected for the past 3 editions (Hull points made them too weak, loss of fire points hurts many this edition, as does their ability to die quickly for their cost compared to infantry units.)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As to points drop, I like it my LGS plays 1500 points, I think it is a much tougher point level to play, and lower points makes soup much less attractive because the taxes for detachments become more meaningful.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/17 13:13:11


 
   
Made in us
Member of the Malleus




It’s a direct response to this year’s winner slowplaying. And it’s fine. I wish GW would try clocks, but I understand why they went lower points instead, and having a variety of points values in tournaments is a good thing.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Well, I guess the big question is...will the independent circuits follow suit?

   
Made in us
Walking Dead Wraithlord





Dallas area, TX

I can certainly approve. I really like 2000pts for casual games in which you have the time to play it out, but for timed competitive events, you really need to "cut the fat".
1750 makes the most sense as it still allows variety of list building, yet makes some choices difficult.
1500pts would be too restrictive and would likely create concentrated lists that would seem repetitive.

Hopefully this trickles down to most local events to change the overall meta.

   
Made in nl
Dakka Veteran





 meleti wrote:
It’s a direct response to this year’s winner slowplaying. And it’s fine. I wish GW would try clocks, but I understand why they went lower points instead, and having a variety of points values in tournaments is a good thing.
Just as easy to slowplay 1750 to max turn 3.
It will help a little in the overal amount of turns the games go but won't fix the actual problems.
   
Made in us
Stoic Grail Knight






Yendor

I approve of this move. I've always felt that lower point games were more interesting because they required the player to make real compromises and choices in list building.

We shall see what it does for lists!

Xom finds this thread hilarious!

My 5th Edition Eldar Tactica (not updated for 6th, historical purposes only) Walking the Path of the Eldar 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Some units behave very differently when you have more open space on the table. I think it's very healthy for the game.
   
Made in us
Auspicious Aspiring Champion of Chaos




My preference in the tournament world would be 1500. It is at least a step in the right direction as it does also heavily influence what we take in our "casual" games (by casual I mean the tournament practice games that make up most of our pickup games here)

However in my neck of the woods: ITC = life. If ITC doesn't adapt this, it will be ignored.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/17 13:56:33


 
   
Made in us
Wolf Guard Bodyguard in Terminator Armor






It's good to change things up. Personally I hope that my local tournaments adopt this, while the non tournament games do not. I would very much like a distinction between what is someones tournament list, or someones casual list.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I don't think its really going to solve the problem, but its not a bad change regardless. I wish it was 1800 though, almost entirely because I like numbers divisible by 3....
   
Made in gb
Latest Wrack in the Pits





 Ordana wrote:
Just as easy to slowplay 1750 to max turn 3.
It will help a little in the overal amount of turns the games go but won't fix the actual problems.


If 99% of games go the full 5-7 turns, then it becomes really easy to identify slow play. It's also easier to justify an insentive to go the full 5-7 turns at that point.




 
   
Made in us
Powerful Ushbati





East Bay, Ca, US

 Wibe wrote:
 Mushkilla wrote:
The Official 2018/2019 Warhammer 40,000 Grand Tournament Season drops army size to 1750 points.

https://warhammerworld.games-workshop.com/the-official-2018-2019-warhammer-40000-grand-tournament/

Thoughts? How will it affect your meta?


Noooo, really?!
It was really down to this or chess clocks.
I like it!


Or just up the cost of chaff.

Although this event is kind of lame:
If you have painted your models in a specific way, we expect you to use the rules relevant to that scheme. For example, if you have painted your models as Salamanders, your army must have the Salamanders keyword. If you have created your own unique colour scheme, then you may give them any keyword that you wish.

Seriously not a fan of color based WYSIWYG

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/17 14:36:16


 Galas wrote:
I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you

Bharring wrote:
He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
 
   
Made in us
Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight




I think that a problem may occur due to my suspicion that GW has currently based points off of an assumption of a 2000 point game. By lowering the army size but not lowering point costs that's going to handicap a lot of "elite" armies (I play mono GK and I know it will hurt my ability to be even somewhat competitive).
   
Made in us
Veteran Inquisitorial Tyranid Xenokiller





I prefer building for 2000 points, but there is no question that 1750 is cleaner and more effective for tournament play. I'd be very interested to see what ITC thinks of the change as Reece has mentioned that 2k is too high, but hasn't made any moves on his own to adjust the point values.

Bender wrote:* Realise that despite the way people talk, this is not a professional sport played by demi gods, but rather a game of toy soldiers played by tired, inebriated human beings.


 lolman1c wrote:
The ork train has no breaks mothersquiggor!
 
   
 
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