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What are the odds that the Traitor Knight entry from the index will see a new entry in the IK codex? Im not asking for chaos Warglaives or anything, just literally a copy pasted entry from the index, with point changes to reflect what the codex has to offer. Because I have a feeling once the book rolls around, and Imperial Knights get reductions but the chaos one doesn't, there will be literally no reason anymore not to just sell off my Knight and only use my Lord of Skulls.

I'd expect to see that change in Chapter Approved rather than in the IK book. That's how they handled Space Wolf Power Fists and other wargear changes to match the reductions in the Space Marines book.

 Asmodai wrote:
I'd expect to see that change in Chapter Approved rather than in the IK book. That's how they handled Space Wolf Power Fists and other wargear changes to match the reductions in the Space Marines book.

I didn't know they did that, that's good to know! I am just iffy on it because they've all but ignored Biker Lords and Daemon Rider Lords to reflect the reduction in points from the Chaos Codex.

For what it's worth I use Imperial knights not chaos, but as far as I can tell it's just a couple wargear changes, with some keyword changes. Probably takes less than a page, if it's not in the codex I'll be surprised for sure

But hey that's just another book right?

From rumblings the news and rumor thread it sounds like Renegades are not addressed.

The IK book otherwise sounds considerably formidable.

So where are Renegade Knights going to have rules when the Indexes stop being sold/supported?

Because that will happen once all factions have been updated to Codices. What that means for Index only options isn't fun to think about.

 Galef wrote:
So where are Renegade Knights going to have rules when the Indexes stop being sold/supported?

Because that will happen once all factions have been updated to Codices. What that means for Index only options isn't fun to think about.

Just a separately provided data sheet like Eisenhorn or w/e.

I'd rather they'd just handle it in the Codex by changing around keywords, but I'm not a smart man clearly, as I thought they should've handled Renegade Space Marines in the Loyalist codex.

 Galef wrote:
So where are Renegade Knights going to have rules when the Indexes stop being sold/supported?

Because that will happen once all factions have been updated to Codices. What that means for Index only options isn't fun to think about.

Why would you think the indexes will stop being sold/supported when there's still multiple index-only factions? Questor Traitoris/Renegade Knights are clearly a faction. As are several other factions like the Inqusition and Officio Assassinorum that aren't likely to have a book in the near future.

 meleti wrote:

 Galef wrote:
So where are Renegade Knights going to have rules when the Indexes stop being sold/supported?

Because that will happen once all factions have been updated to Codices. What that means for Index only options isn't fun to think about.

Why would you think the indexes will stop being sold/supported when there's still multiple index-only factions? Questor Traitoris/Renegade Knights are clearly a faction. As are several other factions like the Inqusition and Officio Assassinorum that aren't likely to have a book in the near future.

Didn't GW state the indexes we're going to be temporary? Or was that what everyone assumed here?

As far as assassin's go or the inqusition, I expect a Agents of the Emperor codex

Confirmed no. They said so on Facebook.

 fraser1191 wrote:

 meleti wrote:

 Galef wrote:
So where are Renegade Knights going to have rules when the Indexes stop being sold/supported?

Because that will happen once all factions have been updated to Codices. What that means for Index only options isn't fun to think about.

Why would you think the indexes will stop being sold/supported when there's still multiple index-only factions? Questor Traitoris/Renegade Knights are clearly a faction. As are several other factions like the Inqusition and Officio Assassinorum that aren't likely to have a book in the near future.

Didn't GW state the indexes we're going to be temporary? Or was that what everyone assumed here?

As far as assassin's go or the inqusition, I expect a Agents of the Emperor codex

Codexes supersede indexes, so they're temporary in that sense. But there's absolutely no statement from GW saying they're going to pick a date and then ban everyone from using factions without a codex from then on.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Confirmed no. They said so on Facebook.

I think if they did do it renegade knights just be an extension of the Freeblade rules +forgeworld. Im not a fan of Chaos Knights, but thats just me being picky (duh, its IMPERIAL Knights).

If they wait until December to address the Renegade Knights I'mma be so mad. As suggested in the other thread, a PDF rules update or an FAQ is all that's needed.

Unless they for some reason decided to make Renegades a whole codex to itself....

 chimeara wrote:
If they wait until December to address the Renegade Knights I'mma be so mad. As suggested in the other thread, a PDF rules update or an FAQ is all that's needed.

Unless they for some reason decided to make Renegades a whole codex to itself....

Seems more likely we'd see them in a Lost and Damned or Dark Mechanicus book.

With the smaller Spawn/Mutants in Rogue Trader and rumours of FW scrapping Renegades & Heretics who knows.

But yeah, slapping a Renegade House in that added the <Chaos> keyword would've been the most sensible option.

Hahahahhaaa! Silly people... why would they conveniently put all Knight related models in one essy to access book? People who own both chaos and imperial armies should be forced to buy two books that are basically direct clones! Silly silly people... when will you learn...

 lolman1c wrote:
Hahahahhaaa! Silly people... why would they conveniently put all Knight related models in one essy to access book? People who own both chaos and imperial armies should be forced to buy two books that are basically direct clones! Silly silly people... when will you learn...

I don't see Chaos getting access to most of those models so I don't see a good reason to make someone buy a book for a single datasheet.

Either it gets a PDF sheet or it goes into Dark Mechanicus in the future.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:
Hahahahhaaa! Silly people... why would they conveniently put all Knight related models in one essy to access book? People who own both chaos and imperial armies should be forced to buy two books that are basically direct clones! Silly silly people... when will you learn...

I don't see Chaos getting access to most of those models so I don't see a good reason to make someone buy a book for a single datasheet.

Either it gets a PDF sheet or it goes into Dark Mechanicus in the future.

That is a good point on that. The datasheet in the index is still well and fine, and theyve specifically said that index is legacy, and is not going to be unplayable. There is a lot of models as I said before that NEED the index to be played. So at this point I can merely hope for CA or FAQ points drops.

 Galef wrote:
So where are Renegade Knights going to have rules when the Indexes stop being sold/supported?

Because that will happen once all factions have been updated to Codices. What that means for Index only options isn't fun to think about.

Maybe. Or maybe gw figures thev want to sell more books for money.

tneva82 wrote:

 Galef wrote:
So where are Renegade Knights going to have rules when the Indexes stop being sold/supported?

Because that will happen once all factions have been updated to Codices. What that means for Index only options isn't fun to think about.

Maybe. Or maybe gw figures thev want to sell more books for money.

If they put it in the IK book:
"GW is forcing you to buy a book of which you mostly can't use (or that is tacked on) for money."

If they put it in its own book with other useful things:
"GW is doing it for the money."

So if we have to sit here and listen to you say basically the same thing regardless of what they do then at least we can come to the agreement that they're making the better choice.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Galef wrote:
So where are Renegade Knights going to have rules when the Indexes stop being sold/supported?

Because that will happen once all factions have been updated to Codices. What that means for Index only options isn't fun to think about.

Maybe. Or maybe gw figures thev want to sell more books for money.

If they put it in the IK book:
"GW is forcing you to buy a book of which you mostly can't use (or that is tacked on) for money."

If they put it in its own book with other useful things:
"GW is doing it for the money."

So if we have to sit here and listen to you say basically the same thing regardless of what they do then at least we can come to the agreement that they're making the better choice.

"GW makes an overall Knights codex that's split into two to represent the split forces of knights. The first half focuses on lore of the Imperial knihts, has new strats, relics, ect... the second half does the same but with renegade Chaos knights." Gw has satisfied every pure knights player both chaos and imperium as well as potentially encouraging pure imperial/chaos Knight players to buy a new army for the opposite force. GW has not only satisfied everyone but also got you to pay for their own advertising. ))))))

Just been harassing GW about this very issue. For what it's worth, they say categorically there will be no Chaos/Renegade Knight support in this codex, and pointed me toward Index: Chaos for our rules...

...which means for the foreseeable future, we get to pay considerably more, for considerably fewer options. Good times!

StrayIight wrote:
Just been harassing GW about this very issue. For what it's worth, they say categorically there will be no Chaos/Renegade Knight support in this codex, and pointed me toward Index: Chaos for our rules...

...which means for the foreseeable future, we get to pay considerably more, for considerably fewer options. Good times!

Well, the index chaos knight is actually WAY more freeform in wargear options...But yeah. No tactics, stratagems or interaction whatsoever blows hard.

 vaklor4 wrote:

Well, the index chaos knight is actually WAY more freeform in wargear options...But yeah. No tactics, stratagems or interaction whatsoever blows hard.

This. And to add insult to injury GW proposes buying the Renegade box, so Chaos players can use both Knights using the Index rules.
Who is gonna buy these things, knowing his Imperial Buddy's Knights will just kick his ass with their Strats, Traits and so on?

 BleachHawk wrote:

 vaklor4 wrote:

Well, the index chaos knight is actually WAY more freeform in wargear options...But yeah. No tactics, stratagems or interaction whatsoever blows hard.

This. And to add insult to injury GW proposes buying the Renegade box, so Chaos players can use both Knights using the Index rules.
Who is gonna buy these things, knowing his Imperial Buddy's Knights will just kick his ass with their Strats, Traits and so on?

Not to mention he'll pay less in points, vastly less, for the same gear (though I'd like to think that at least will be swiftly FAQ'd).

There are reasonable indications that Imperial players will have access to the previously 'Renegade only' setups like Twin Avengers etc. Possibly via Freeblades. It's been spotted on various places around the net that GW staff - some pretty senior, have been building Knights ready for the Codex release with setups like Twin Avengers...

I'm not going to lie, I'm pretty pissed off as a Renegade player. Parity between both factions would have been a piece of piss to achieve here, yet absolutely no effort toward this end has even seemingly been planned, let alone implemented.
How can anyone possibly be expected to take the idea of 40K as a competitive game seriously, when we can't even rely on identical units costing the same number of points for opposing factions? And let's face it, this is simply the most recent example among many :/

Has somebody ever thought 40k is anything but a joke as a competive game?

You DON'T take a joke game seriously. That's the thing.

tneva82 wrote:
Has somebody ever thought 40k is anything but a joke as a competive game?

You DON'T take a joke game seriously. That's the thing.

This probably needs a thread all of it's own buddy.

I don't know if I agree or not with the entirety of your statement, but I can't say the essence of what you're saying doesn't have merit with the way things are.

If there were to be a proper Chaos Knights codex (i.e. old school with beast heads, tails, all sorts of tentacle-options etc.) it might tempt me to buy a knight...


... of course, while they won't release a plastic kit because there are no rules, and they won't release rules because there isn't a plastic kit...

Mark.

Cheeslord wrote:
If there were to be a proper Chaos Knights codex (i.e. old school with beast heads, tails, all sorts of tentacle-options etc.) it might tempt me to buy a knight...


... of course, while they won't release a plastic kit because there are no rules, and they won't release rules because there isn't a plastic kit...

Mark.

Ironically, and as much as people feel passionately pro or anti their output, FW might be our best hope at this point. There was a not dissimilar situation when GW first created rules for Traitor Guard, which people loved and invested in... and then had support for them dropped within a very short time frame. Those same people would be utterly out of luck had FW not picked that concept up and continued to support it - albeit arguably in an imperfect manner.

GW don't appear to care about the outliers, they support and develop where they feel the money is. Chaos Knights, Renegade Knights - we fall squarely in that outlier category. FW occasionally pick those things up and throw people a few bones, though they aren't exactly what could be described as consistent or reliable...