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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/06/03 19:24:24
Subject: Most competitive knight in the new codex
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Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot
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Now the points and stats have been leaked, which knights out of the codex variants do people think will be most likely to place well at tournaments for their points cost?
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/06/03 23:36:42
Fully Painted Armies: 2200pts Orks 1000pts Space Marines 1200pts Tau 2500pts Blood Angels 3500pts Imperial Guard/Renegades and 1700pts Daemons 450pts Imperial Knights |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/06/03 20:40:17
Subject: Most competitive knight in the new codex
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Steadfast Ultramarine Sergeant
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Probably any of them with a thunder strike gauntlet.
There's a stratagem where after combat the knight rolls to hit, (gallant know has a 2+ WS) then I think it does D3 MW then players roll off adding the strength of the units to the roll and each time the knight player wins it does a MW or the opposing player wins the roll off. Pretty scary stratagem. Oh and it's 1 Cp
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/06/03 21:23:06
Subject: Re:Most competitive knight in the new codex
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Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight
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You don’t have the gallant on the list (not saying it’s the most competitive)
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Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/06/03 22:01:43
Subject: Most competitive knight in the new codex
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Khorne Chosen Marine Riding a Juggernaut
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Those Helverin seem really good. So good I've considered making an Ad Mech army to field 3 of them.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/06/03 22:30:44
Subject: Most competitive knight in the new codex
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Combat Jumping Rasyat
East of England
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You don't have Gallant on the list (and I AM saying it's the most competitive  )
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/06/03 22:47:48
Subject: Most competitive knight in the new codex
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Potent Possessed Daemonvessel
Why Aye Ya Canny Dakkanaughts!
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fraser1191 wrote:Probably any of them with a thunder strike gauntlet.
There's a stratagem where after combat the knight rolls to hit, (gallant know has a 2+ WS) then I think it does D3 MW then players roll off adding the strength of the units to the roll and each time the knight player wins it does a MW or the opposing player wins the roll off. Pretty scary stratagem. Oh and it's 1 Cp
I don't know about most competitive but god does that stratagem give me a stiffy, I might have to get myself a second Knight...
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Ghorros wrote:The moral of the story: Don't park your Imperial Knight in a field of Gretchin carrying power tools.
Marmatag wrote:All the while, my opponent is furious, throwing his codex on the floor, trying to slash his wrists with safety scissors. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/06/03 23:37:54
Subject: Most competitive knight in the new codex
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Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot
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Fixed the poll. Also forgot the crusader... There were more of them than I remembered haha
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Fully Painted Armies: 2200pts Orks 1000pts Space Marines 1200pts Tau 2500pts Blood Angels 3500pts Imperial Guard/Renegades and 1700pts Daemons 450pts Imperial Knights |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/06/04 02:50:13
Subject: Most competitive knight in the new codex
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Steadfast Ultramarine Sergeant
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mrhappyface wrote: fraser1191 wrote:Probably any of them with a thunder strike gauntlet.
There's a stratagem where after combat the knight rolls to hit, (gallant know has a 2+ WS) then I think it does D3 MW then players roll off adding the strength of the units to the roll and each time the knight player wins it does a MW or the opposing player wins the roll off. Pretty scary stratagem. Oh and it's 1 Cp
I don't know about most competitive but god does that stratagem give me a stiffy, I might have to get myself a second Knight...
I had regrets about building a Gallant. But now give him the relic gauntlet with no penalty hitting on 2s. Oh boy gimme that book
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/06/04 08:18:19
Subject: Most competitive knight in the new codex
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Combat Jumping Rasyat
East of England
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And the chap's 354pts now. Same price as a Landaider.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/06/04 08:53:15
Subject: Most competitive knight in the new codex
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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I'm going with old trusty crusader. Hefty firepower in an shooting game.
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2024 painted/bought: 109/109 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/06/04 09:01:44
Subject: Most competitive knight in the new codex
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Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine
Little Rock, Arkansas
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While I'm loving the feel of the valiant's game mechanics, I think the most competitive unit is definitely the little helverin. Very tightly costed for what amounts to a souped up dreadnought with some ballin' guns.
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20000+ points
Tournament reports:
1234567 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/06/04 10:00:38
Subject: Most competitive knight in the new codex
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Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine
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fraser1191 wrote:Probably any of them with a thunder strike gauntlet.
There's a stratagem where after combat the knight rolls to hit, (gallant know has a 2+ WS) then I think it does D3 MW then players roll off adding the strength of the units to the roll and each time the knight player wins it does a MW or the opposing player wins the roll off. Pretty scary stratagem. Oh and it's 1 Cp
Call me curious, as I'm currently building a knight Gallant myself, where in the rules leaks does it say that the Gallant hits on 2+ in melee?
I can only find what I assume are Index Imperium scans of the datasheet for the Gallant showing WS:3+.
Take it easy.
-Red__Thirst-
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You don't know me son, so I'll explain this to you once: If I ever kill you, you'll be awake, you'll be facing me, and you'll be armed. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/06/04 10:11:42
Subject: Most competitive knight in the new codex
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Horrific Hive Tyrant
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I'm struggling to find much about the Helverins. Seems others know the loadout and points, any chance someone could post some details?
Not asking for the full datasheet of course, don't want to get the attention of GW, but like what are those guns?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/06/04 10:23:36
Subject: Most competitive knight in the new codex
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Stux wrote:I'm struggling to find much about the Helverins. Seems others know the loadout and points, any chance someone could post some details?
Not asking for the full datasheet of course, don't want to get the attention of GW, but like what are those guns?
4D3 "Predator Autocannon" shots with Damage 3 and range 60, move and shoot without penalty, T7, 12 Wounds, 3+/5++, run as fast as a Jetbike-Shield Captain flies, have a nifty anti-flyer Stratagem and of course get House-traits, etc...
It's very similar to an Autocannon Mortis Contemptor actually. Contemptor hits on 2+ but does not ignore move-and-shoot heavy weapons, Helverin hits on 3+ standing still or moving. Helverin runs faster, has 2 more wounds, has 12" more range, 1 more damage per shot, potentially 2 more shots (or 2 less) and some nifty household traits and stratagems to use.
170-ish with the Stubber and over 180 with the meltagun.
Damage 3 spam seems popular these days (hello Tau Ion-Heads), and these could fill it for the Imperium. Unlike, say, Ion-Heads for Tau (or proper Knights), you can tie them down with cc though.
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This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/06/04 10:34:26
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/06/04 11:37:41
Subject: Most competitive knight in the new codex
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Horrific Hive Tyrant
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Wow that is very nice. The set isn't that expensive as far GW goes in my opinion either!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/06/04 11:57:46
Subject: Most competitive knight in the new codex
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Regular Dakkanaut
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I assume the rule of 3 effects the Helverin, so even if you could fit 4, it wouldn't be allowed, or have those rules been tossed since the FAQ in March?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/06/04 12:01:03
Subject: Most competitive knight in the new codex
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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CelticKodiak wrote:I assume the rule of 3 effects the Helverin, so even if you could fit 4, it wouldn't be allowed, or have those rules been tossed since the FAQ in March?
Its 3 copies of the datasheet and both armiger knights can be taken in squadrons of upto 3 per LoW slot like leman russed so thats 9 helverins and 9 forgebane ones if you have the point's. And don't want CP.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/06/04 15:37:00
Subject: Most competitive knight in the new codex
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Fixture of Dakka
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Red__Thirst wrote: fraser1191 wrote:Probably any of them with a thunder strike gauntlet.
There's a stratagem where after combat the knight rolls to hit, (gallant know has a 2+ WS) then I think it does D3 MW then players roll off adding the strength of the units to the roll and each time the knight player wins it does a MW or the opposing player wins the roll off. Pretty scary stratagem. Oh and it's 1 Cp
Call me curious, as I'm currently building a knight Gallant myself, where in the rules leaks does it say that the Gallant hits on 2+ in melee?
I can only find what I assume are Index Imperium scans of the datasheet for the Gallant showing WS:3+.
Take it easy.
-Red__Thirst-
You can find it in a few of the rules, but the Gallant has 2+ WS and +1 A over the other knights in the Codex.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/06/04 17:43:18
Subject: Most competitive knight in the new codex
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Combat Jumping Rasyat
East of England
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And you can get him up to 6A with a D8 weapon, hitting on 2s, if you're going in deep on him. Go Terryn and you can attack again. I'm not saying it's going to happen, but that's an upper limit of 96 damage in one fight phase. Top it off with a sprinkle of death grip to get that magic 100 damage!
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/04 17:46:27
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/06/04 17:43:27
Subject: Re:Most competitive knight in the new codex
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Steadfast Ultramarine Sergeant
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Death grip stratagem
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/06/04 18:02:53
Subject: Most competitive knight in the new codex
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Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon
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Much too early to say.
We can theoryhammer all we want, but until we’ve got games under belts, there’s still plenty of surprises to come.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/06/04 20:11:13
Subject: Most competitive knight in the new codex
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Clousseau
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Death Grip requires it be a 1-model unit. But that is super cool. Run him into Custodes.
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Galas wrote:I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you 
Bharring wrote:He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/06/04 20:15:15
Subject: Most competitive knight in the new codex
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Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator
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I think it’s going to be the Helverins as they are so plug-and-play. Really simple to slot 3 of them into any Imperium list. We’ll just have to see if they’re good enough.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/06/04 21:01:00
Subject: Most competitive knight in the new codex
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Potent Possessed Daemonvessel
Why Aye Ya Canny Dakkanaughts!
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In case it helps you make a decision, here's the Death Grip maths:
Versus:
S1/2 - Auto Kill
S3 - 1/36 chance to escape, average of ~73MW
S4 - 1/12 chance to escape, ~25MW
S5 - 1/6 chance to escape, ~13MW
S6 - 5/18 chance to escape, ~8MW
S7 - 5/12 chance to escape, ~6MW
S8 - 7/12 chance to escape, ~4MW
S9 - 13/18 chance to escape, ~3MW
S10 - 5/6 chance to escape, ~3MW
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Ghorros wrote:The moral of the story: Don't park your Imperial Knight in a field of Gretchin carrying power tools.
Marmatag wrote:All the while, my opponent is furious, throwing his codex on the floor, trying to slash his wrists with safety scissors. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/06/05 00:47:49
Subject: Most competitive knight in the new codex
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
Vigo. Spain.
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Death Grip insta deletes (ok you have 16% of failing that 2+ hit, but if you use another CP for a reroll if you REALLY want that death) all S4 characters (so all space marine HQ's), and even Custodes aren't safe.
Of course, it needs for you to be in meele... but 1 CP to basically insta kill a Custodes Captain in Jetbike? Yes please.
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Crimson Devil wrote:
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote:Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/06/05 04:59:18
Subject: Most competitive knight in the new codex
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Been Around the Block
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The Warglaive also got a nice boost. It now has a melee profile for hordes and it dropped about 50 points making it a very competitive fast dreadnaught. The Helverin is probably better in a lot of armies but I wouldn't discount the Warglaive.
IIRC the Warden also got a pretty significant point drop, making reasonably competitive.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/06/05 09:30:08
Subject: Most competitive knight in the new codex
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Ice_can wrote:CelticKodiak wrote:I assume the rule of 3 effects the Helverin, so even if you could fit 4, it wouldn't be allowed, or have those rules been tossed since the FAQ in March?
Its 3 copies of the datasheet and both armiger knights can be taken in squadrons of upto 3 per LoW slot like leman russed so thats 9 helverins and 9 forgebane ones if you have the point's. And don't want CP.
I mean if you wanted you could take 3 of the cheapest knights, the Gallants, deck one or two out with a WT and relic, and take 3 Helverin, possibly more, not sure of the points. That would get you the CP, and a pack of Helverin hounds to run about the board dakkaing the gak out of everything. Would be an interesting strategy, not sure what house would work best, possibly a charging one for the Gallants since the Helverins massed shots wouldn't exactly need rerolls.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/06/05 09:46:27
Subject: Most competitive knight in the new codex
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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CelticKodiak wrote:Ice_can wrote:CelticKodiak wrote:I assume the rule of 3 effects the Helverin, so even if you could fit 4, it wouldn't be allowed, or have those rules been tossed since the FAQ in March?
Its 3 copies of the datasheet and both armiger knights can be taken in squadrons of upto 3 per LoW slot like leman russed so thats 9 helverins and 9 forgebane ones if you have the point's. And don't want CP.
I mean if you wanted you could take 3 of the cheapest knights, the Gallants, deck one or two out with a WT and relic, and take 3 Helverin, possibly more, not sure of the points. That would get you the CP, and a pack of Helverin hounds to run about the board dakkaing the gak out of everything. Would be an interesting strategy, not sure what house would work best, possibly a charging one for the Gallants since the Helverins massed shots wouldn't exactly need rerolls.
Oh if you are wanting 3 regular knights and 3 helverin that works out for 2k even with...well about every combo. 492 pts per knight to spend after 3 helverins.
3 gallant, 5 helverins would also work out.
Another thing is do you WANT 3 gallants. They are good but not that good and the way non-scalable relic/strategems works 2nd and 3rd gallant are much less powerful than 1st one.
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2024 painted/bought: 109/109 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/06/05 10:34:04
Subject: Most competitive knight in the new codex
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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CelticKodiak wrote:I assume the rule of 3 effects the Helverin, so even if you could fit 4, it wouldn't be allowed, or have those rules been tossed since the FAQ in March?
"Rule of 3" is not a formal matched play rule. It's just a recommendation for larger events, though presumably most tournaments will adopt it. But if it's not explicitly in the tournament rules package, it's not a thing.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/06/05 10:44:41
Subject: Most competitive knight in the new codex
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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Sunny Side Up wrote:CelticKodiak wrote:I assume the rule of 3 effects the Helverin, so even if you could fit 4, it wouldn't be allowed, or have those rules been tossed since the FAQ in March?
"Rule of 3" is not a formal matched play rule. It's just a recommendation for larger events, though presumably most tournaments will adopt it. But if it's not explicitly in the tournament rules package, it's not a thing.
It's thing pretty much everywhere here at least tournament or not. It's about as common as "max 3 detachments". Ie virtually every game. I have seen more variance on whether you can premeasure or not!
But anyway irrelevant here anyway. You can get 9 of both either way. Unlikely you really want more than 9 either anyway. 1566 pts for 9 helverins...
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/05 10:45:14
2024 painted/bought: 109/109 |
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