Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Wondering if we will get a unit that can upgrade, being a factotum master of none. Having an elite or troop unit that can have cc weapons and or speacial/long ranged weaponry or is GW just making them more like eldar, though eldar even have more options than Primaris. They are not going to change the Primaris that have been released as there are no options really in their boxes.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
Wondering if we will get a unit that can upgrade, being a factotum master of none. Having an elite or troop unit that can have cc weapons and or speacial/long ranged weaponry or is GW just making them more like eldar, though eldar even have more options than Primaris.

Well i want to say its rowboat following more the scheme of older formations. in 30k it seems that its ether dudes with bolters, dudes with special weapons or dudes with heavy weapons. no standard tactical squads like 40k.

 Desubot wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
Wondering if we will get a unit that can upgrade, being a factotum master of none. Having an elite or troop unit that can have cc weapons and or speacial/long ranged weaponry or is GW just making them more like eldar, though eldar even have more options than Primaris.

Well i want to say its rowboat following more the scheme of older formations. in 30k it seems that its ether dudes with bolters, dudes with special weapons or dudes with heavy weapons. no standard tactical squads like 40k.

It definitely looks that way, I think the execs in GW have a bureaucratic thought process thinking, its successful in 30k therefore we must replicate our success in 40k. I like the fact its easier for list building, but I miss seeing the old powerfist or axe with my units, they are starting to look boring especially as a SW's player, plus less tactical, which is daft for Astartes as they are pretty much special forces in the Imperium. Ah well, just have to get used to it, I'll still model mine with powerfist etc. just for the look. CSM's have options so I think they are definitely changing the dynamic of loyalists. I think loyalists will be tougher but CSM will be more jack of all trades, seeing that they won't be getting the new Primaris statline. Adds a bit of flavour between the two I suppose.

I dont think its because it was successful in 30k or anything like that.

99% sure it has everything to do with not stepping on existing marines toes.

there is no way the excects would know if the primarus line would stick. they probably wanted to do it just to update the line as marine models suuuuuuuuuuck.

so they couldn't do a direct 1 to 1 replacement in 40k otherwise backlash would of been far worse.

all the line really needs is dedicated vet squads to ether go full punch town or full shoot town with more interesting weapons and its gg.

 Desubot wrote:
I dont think its because it was successful in 30k or anything like that.

99% sure it has everything to do with not stepping on existing marines toes.

there is no way the excects would know if the primarus line would stick. they probably wanted to do it just to update the line as marine models suuuuuuuuuuck.

so they couldn't do a direct 1 to 1 replacement in 40k otherwise backlash would of been far worse.

all the line really needs is dedicated vet squads to ether go full punch town or full shoot town with more interesting weapons and its gg.

They'd need a troops version as well in my opinion.

There was a simple solution called “make them truescsle marines” but we had to butcher some fluff and make new bigger specialer marines.

 greyknight12 wrote:
There was a simple solution called “make them truescsle marines” but we had to butcher some fluff and make new bigger specialer marines.

Yeah but they wanted more money, so they made Primaris so dummies would still buy classic marines.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 greyknight12 wrote:
There was a simple solution called “make them truescsle marines” but we had to butcher some fluff and make new bigger specialer marines.

Yeah but they wanted more money, so they made Primaris so dummies would still buy classic marines.

Kinda missing the point

imagine what those "dummies" would say if they just invalidated their whole collection saying these are the new marines. get used to it.

its fantastic for people just starting or people with more disposable income then common sense but for everyone else it would literally be a slap in the face.

it is a money issue but its a pr thing not a lets screw over people.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 greyknight12 wrote:
There was a simple solution called “make them truescsle marines” but we had to butcher some fluff and make new bigger specialer marines.

Yeah but they wanted more money, so they made Primaris so dummies would still buy classic marines.

how are they "dummies"? classic marines still exist, they're still being deployed along side one another, yes I think the likelyhood of new old marine kits is unlikely but beyond maybe some characters what old school marines do we need?

 Desubot wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 greyknight12 wrote:
There was a simple solution called “make them truescsle marines” but we had to butcher some fluff and make new bigger specialer marines.

Yeah but they wanted more money, so they made Primaris so dummies would still buy classic marines.

Kinda missing the point

imagine what those "dummies" would say if they just invalidated their whole collection saying these are the new marines. get used to it.

its fantastic for people just starting or people with more disposable income then common sense but for everyone else it would literally be a slap in the face.

it is a money issue but its a pr thing not a lets screw over people.

No you're missing the point. Classic marines will be replaced. So continuing to buy them is kinda dumb as in the future they will be replaced. If you don't put in any time painting them etc. you're not dumb but I collect as well as play, there is no way I'm putting in painstaking time painting models that will be replaced.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 greyknight12 wrote:
There was a simple solution called “make them truescsle marines” but we had to butcher some fluff and make new bigger specialer marines.

Yeah but they wanted more money, so they made Primaris so dummies would still buy classic marines.

how are they "dummies"? classic marines still exist, they're still being deployed along side one another, yes I think the likelyhood of new old marine kits is unlikely but beyond maybe some characters what old school marines do we need?

Let me rephrase if people want to collect them knowing they will be replaced then they aren't dummies but if they collect them thinking they will be around forever then they are dummies, because they will be replaced, seen it happen since 2nd edition, plus GW are a business, they need to update with the times to compete as a business and old marines no longer cut it aesthetic wise. Especially not for a new player base. I never realised how goofy they looked until they made custodes and primaris.

Wait so would it be better for them to completely replace the model and not have rules for the older models or have one new thing and still keep the old models and rules?

how many years do you think its going to take them to do another time jump to the point all of the older models can no longer be used in game?

they are literally tippy toeing the line instead of sledgehammering so people can still dick around with it for like 5-10 years. if by then they dont see the signs that the line is going then i dunno what to tell them. also side note they did update the marine line with death watch whom have slightly better scaling anyway. id hope they would just redo the older marine lines and there is nothing saying they absolutely wont.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
No you're missing the point. Classic marines will be replaced.

As long as classic marines make a profit for Games Workshop they will not be replaced.

 Desubot wrote:
Wait so would it be better for them to completely replace the model and not have rules for the older models or have one new thing and still keep the old models and rules?

how many years do you think its going to take them to do another time jump to the point all of the older models can no longer be used in game?

they are literally tippy toeing the line instead of sledgehammering so people can still dick around with it for like 5-10 years. if by then they dont see the signs that the line is going then i dunno what to tell them. also side note they did update the marine line with death watch whom have slightly better scaling anyway. id hope they would just redo the older marine lines and there is nothing saying they absolutely wont.

No, do what I do, convert them into true scale which is very easy, the only hard converts are terminators, but can still be done making them Primaris height. When they get rid of marines you can still keep all your converts, they won't be WYSIWYG, but who cares about that. Only bikes and land speeders are a bitch to convert and you need very good sculpting skills for that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ghaz wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
No you're missing the point. Classic marines will be replaced.

As long as classic marines make a profit for Games Workshop they will not be replaced.

Thats like saying as long as the Iphone 8 sells models, they won't replace it with the Iphone 9. They have replaced models since rogue trader days.

 Desubot wrote:
Wait so would it be better for them to completely replace the model and not have rules for the older models or have one new thing and still keep the old models and rules?

how many years do you think its going to take them to do another time jump to the point all of the older models can no longer be used in game?

they are literally tippy toeing the line instead of sledgehammering so people can still dick around with it for like 5-10 years. if by then they dont see the signs that the line is going then i dunno what to tell them. also side note they did update the marine line with death watch whom have slightly better scaling anyway. id hope they would just redo the older marine lines and there is nothing saying they absolutely wont.

it's worth noting that the core marine units are also pretty new, the MK VII tac squad kit came out with the 6th edition marine codex and is only 5 years old, Assault Marines, devestators came out with the 7th edition codex and are 3 years old, the MK IV armor is about that old too. MK III armor, is only 2 years old at this time. will the old marines be phased out? maybe, but it could be decades before they are, consider how long some of the current kits we have have been around. some are a good 20 years old. not worth worrying about over much in my mind.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Wait so would it be better for them to completely replace the model and not have rules for the older models or have one new thing and still keep the old models and rules?

how many years do you think its going to take them to do another time jump to the point all of the older models can no longer be used in game?

they are literally tippy toeing the line instead of sledgehammering so people can still dick around with it for like 5-10 years. if by then they dont see the signs that the line is going then i dunno what to tell them. also side note they did update the marine line with death watch whom have slightly better scaling anyway. id hope they would just redo the older marine lines and there is nothing saying they absolutely wont.

it's worth noting that the core marine units are also pretty new, the MK VII tac squad kit came out with the 6th edition marine codex and is only 5 years old, Assault Marines, devestators came out with the 7th edition codex and are 3 years old, the MK IV armor is about that old too. MK III armor, is only 2 years old at this time. will the old marines be phased out? maybe, but it could be decades before they are, consider how long some of the current kits we have have been around. some are a good 20 years old. not worth worrying about over much in my mind.

It will be years, but GW have never made this much change as they have for 8th and AOS. They are really moving towards a complete update of armies especially in the dawn of 3d printing.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Wait so would it be better for them to completely replace the model and not have rules for the older models or have one new thing and still keep the old models and rules?

how many years do you think its going to take them to do another time jump to the point all of the older models can no longer be used in game?

they are literally tippy toeing the line instead of sledgehammering so people can still dick around with it for like 5-10 years. if by then they dont see the signs that the line is going then i dunno what to tell them. also side note they did update the marine line with death watch whom have slightly better scaling anyway. id hope they would just redo the older marine lines and there is nothing saying they absolutely wont.

it's worth noting that the core marine units are also pretty new, the MK VII tac squad kit came out with the 6th edition marine codex and is only 5 years old, Assault Marines, devestators came out with the 7th edition codex and are 3 years old, the MK IV armor is about that old too. MK III armor, is only 2 years old at this time. will the old marines be phased out? maybe, but it could be decades before they are, consider how long some of the current kits we have have been around. some are a good 20 years old. not worth worrying about over much in my mind.

Yeah i know im definitely not worried about it.

on a side note the new aos chaos kits make for EXCELLENT leg conversions for true scale chaos space marines.

 Desubot wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Wait so would it be better for them to completely replace the model and not have rules for the older models or have one new thing and still keep the old models and rules?

how many years do you think its going to take them to do another time jump to the point all of the older models can no longer be used in game?

they are literally tippy toeing the line instead of sledgehammering so people can still dick around with it for like 5-10 years. if by then they dont see the signs that the line is going then i dunno what to tell them. also side note they did update the marine line with death watch whom have slightly better scaling anyway. id hope they would just redo the older marine lines and there is nothing saying they absolutely wont.

it's worth noting that the core marine units are also pretty new, the MK VII tac squad kit came out with the 6th edition marine codex and is only 5 years old, Assault Marines, devestators came out with the 7th edition codex and are 3 years old, the MK IV armor is about that old too. MK III armor, is only 2 years old at this time. will the old marines be phased out? maybe, but it could be decades before they are, consider how long some of the current kits we have have been around. some are a good 20 years old. not worth worrying about over much in my mind.

Yeah i know im definitely not worried about it.

on a side note the new aos chaos kits make for EXCELLENT leg conversions for true scale chaos space marines.

a Plastic kit an easily last 20 years before they gotta replace the mold apparently. So I figure old school Marines are proably good for 20 years. I'll worry about them canning all old school marines or not when I'm 56.

How old are you now?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
3D printing GW models is a matter of when not if. GW have already seen the writing on the wall, that's why they are making such detailed models now, even look at what they sell now, unique dice, cards etc. they are making constant new models. When 3D printing can make classic marines GW will stop selling them so it will be sooner than you think.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
How old are you now?

20 - 56 =?

 Desubot wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
How old are you now?

20 - 56 =?

I skim read that.

Compared to what a tactical squad has option wise, primaris are incredibly simple. That's not surprising, GW is trending towards simplified units which makes sense post chapter house.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
Compared to what a tactical squad has option wise, primaris are incredibly simple. That's not surprising, GW is trending towards simplified units which makes sense post chapter house.

Not really if you look at the CSM releases, they've cut down a lot of the stuff you can take but I don't think they are going to simplify all armies.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
Compared to what a tactical squad has option wise, primaris are incredibly simple. That's not surprising, GW is trending towards simplified units which makes sense post chapter house.

Not really if you look at the CSM releases, they've cut down a lot of the stuff you can take but I don't think they are going to simplify all armies.

no but giving space marines some infantry options with massive simplifcation is proably a good idea. as it's the "gateway drug faction"

BrianDavion wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
Compared to what a tactical squad has option wise, primaris are incredibly simple. That's not surprising, GW is trending towards simplified units which makes sense post chapter house.

Not really if you look at the CSM releases, they've cut down a lot of the stuff you can take but I don't think they are going to simplify all armies.

no but giving space marines some infantry options with massive simplifcation is proably a good idea. as it's the "gateway drug faction"

Not really, for that to be a game-plan you'd need to do it far all factions, They may think they can hard sell to people saying its an easy army, but people will always go with the army that they love, at most it might make someone chose marines over another army if they liked both. Its a good idea from GW point of view, not a good idea realistically, it makes it simpler but not easier, people will have to learn the concept of list building with points, adding a powerfist here and there is just as easy as adding a model here and there. GW have made the game simple enough, now they are going overboard it seems to me. Games like x-wing are really simple and easy, but there is still a reason so much of the market is dominated by GW. Change their formula too much and I think it will be counter-productive. Not everyone is a died in the wool Astartes players.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
Compared to what a tactical squad has option wise, primaris are incredibly simple. That's not surprising, GW is trending towards simplified units which makes sense post chapter house.

Not really if you look at the CSM releases, they've cut down a lot of the stuff you can take but I don't think they are going to simplify all armies.

no but giving space marines some infantry options with massive simplifcation is proably a good idea. as it's the "gateway drug faction"

Not really, for that to be a game-plan you'd need to do it far all factions, They may think they can hard sell to people saying its an easy army, but people will always go with the army that they love, at most it might make someone chose marines over another army if they liked both. Its a good idea from GW point of view, not a good idea realistically, it makes it simpler but not easier, people will have to learn the concept of list building with points, adding a powerfist here and there is just as easy as adding a model here and there. GW have made the game simple enough, now they are going overboard it seems to me. Games like x-wing are really simple and easy, but there is still a reason so much of the market is dominated by GW. Change their formula too much and I think it will be counter-productive. Not everyone is a died in the wool Astartes players.

Maybe but your average new player likely starts with Marines, I'm not talking a war gamer eaither, I'm talking "9 year old kid comes into GW paints a mini, and buys a box of first strike with his mom"

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
Compared to what a tactical squad has option wise, primaris are incredibly simple. That's not surprising, GW is trending towards simplified units which makes sense post chapter house.

Not really if you look at the CSM releases, they've cut down a lot of the stuff you can take but I don't think they are going to simplify all armies.

Not all options but they seem to be pushing towards a simpler model line eventually. Look at the primaris marines character models or most factions for that matter, compared to today. When I started in 5th you had 4 or five models for most HQ choices, now one or two at most. It's clear that the game is trending to less options in general.

HoundsofDemos wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
Compared to what a tactical squad has option wise, primaris are incredibly simple. That's not surprising, GW is trending towards simplified units which makes sense post chapter house.

Not really if you look at the CSM releases, they've cut down a lot of the stuff you can take but I don't think they are going to simplify all armies.

Not all options but they seem to be pushing towards a simpler model line eventually. Look at the primaris marines character models or most factions for that matter, compared to today. When I started in 5th you had 4 or five models for most HQ choices, now one or two at most. It's clear that the game is trending to less options in general.

I'm guessing you played back when metal was a thing yeah?

 Desubot wrote:
...Well i want to say its rowboat following more the scheme of older formations. in 30k it seems that its ether dudes with bolters, dudes with special weapons or dudes with heavy weapons. no standard tactical squads like 40k.

So Tactical Veterans, Breachers, Seekers, and Recon squads are what, chopped liver?

BrianDavion wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
Compared to what a tactical squad has option wise, primaris are incredibly simple. That's not surprising, GW is trending towards simplified units which makes sense post chapter house.

Not really if you look at the CSM releases, they've cut down a lot of the stuff you can take but I don't think they are going to simplify all armies.

Not all options but they seem to be pushing towards a simpler model line eventually. Look at the primaris marines character models or most factions for that matter, compared to today. When I started in 5th you had 4 or five models for most HQ choices, now one or two at most. It's clear that the game is trending to less options in general.

I'm guessing you played back when metal was a thing yeah?

I did and the shift away from it has had some sad consequences. I'll be the first to admit to not really liking metal models, since they are a pain compared to plastic but GW going over to the clam pack mono pose plastics has been very meh. That's why all my captains and librarians are kit bashed and my chaplains and tech marines are older models. Primaris just don't seem as kit bashable as older marines.

No model, No rules. It's that simple.