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Made in es
Regular Dakkanaut





So this business with Calgar getting made into a primaris is not sitting well with me and makes me have a few questions.

Firstly, I'm assuming that to make him into a primaris, they have rebuilt his body in some way - making him taller, new organs, new gene seed etc etc. If so, where are his arms? He had 2 power fists because they were cut off - did he decide that with his new arms he'd rather have them cut off again?

Secondly, from a rules perspective, could you technically field 2 Calgars? By my reckoning, old Calgar and new Calgar are different models - so the "no duplicates of unique models" gets a little fuzzy.

I didn't say they were good questions
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter






Mmmm. well with GW and their retcons did he "Really" lose his arms.

second does it matter.

i dont think there are too many jean seeds that are involved in the arms and legs and if they are bionic, id assume you could detach them instead of just cutting them off.

as for the unique models things...... eh its probably some where in CA or they will forget to put it in so will be put into an FAQ at some point.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.

Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!

 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut



NE Ohio, USA

Why couldn't he just be wearing two power fists now?
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut




Sumilidon wrote:


Secondly, from a rules perspective, could you technically field 2 Calgars? By my reckoning, old Calgar and new Calgar are different models - so the "no duplicates of unique models" gets a little fuzzy.

I didn't say they were good questions

Sammael already has that issue covered. 2 models. The data sheets specifically state that you can't use both.
   
Made in au
Nurgle Veteran Marine with the Flu





With the 2 Calgar question, that will only be an issue until the next codex when his other entries will be removed. They've already planned to take him down from the webstore with the honour guard being reboxed to not include him.


"You are my unbroken blades. You are the Death Guard. By your hand shall justice be delivered, and doom shall stalk a thousand worlds."
- Mortarion, The Death Lord, Daemon Primarch of Nurgle


6100 | 2400 | 4600 | 3300 | 550

 
   
Made in il
Tzeentch Doomlord Pilot






Zustiur wrote:
Sumilidon wrote:


Secondly, from a rules perspective, could you technically field 2 Calgars? By my reckoning, old Calgar and new Calgar are different models - so the "no duplicates of unique models" gets a little fuzzy.

I didn't say they were good questions

Sammael already has that issue covered. 2 models. The data sheets specifically state that you can't use both.


Actually...Calgar himself already has that covered, as he has 2 datasheets in the codex...

can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now. 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran






^Index. The power armor one and the terminator one are in the index. Only the terminator one is in the codex.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Ute nation

Sumilidon wrote:
So this business with Calgar getting made into a primaris is not sitting well with me and makes me have a few questions.

Firstly, I'm assuming that to make him into a primaris, they have rebuilt his body in some way - making him taller, new organs, new gene seed etc etc. If so, where are his arms? He had 2 power fists because they were cut off - did he decide that with his new arms he'd rather have them cut off again?

Secondly, from a rules perspective, could you technically field 2 Calgars? By my reckoning, old Calgar and new Calgar are different models - so the "no duplicates of unique models" gets a little fuzzy.

I didn't say they were good questions


The first primaris marines were normal space marines that volunteered for enhancement some time around/after the HH. So from the beginning primaris marines have been normal marines with two organs added, one that makes them tougher and one that makes the faster. Calgar merely got the two organs implanted in him, just like the first primaris marines. They don't do this for most of the existing marines because it's wasteful, by the time they are full battle brothers one of their progenoid glands has already been harvested and the other is only recoverable at time of death. However due to failures during training, rejection, they probably have a few spares floating about, so if the marines important enough they can upgrade them to primaris. Calgar fits the definition of important, so it's not surprising that he would be one of the first of the current generation of marines to receive the upgrade treatment. I would expect all of the chapter masters to get it done eventually, though GW says the art department takes the lead on new models and rules/fluff comes afterwards, so I doubt they will bust them out assembly line style. Primaris Azrael, Dante, Logan Grimnar, the shrike, etc. should all be available some time in the future.

No I imagine you can not field two Calgars,

Necrons - 4k
Dark angels - 2k


"You know what they say about brute force, if it's not working you are not using enough of it" 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut






Well, accorind to one version of the background which made sense a marine had to begin implants in early puberty as the process used the body's natural growth to work. This actually made a lot of sense so gw probably killed it.

As to taking a full grown centuries old old marine and upgrading him, I can't say it makes sense but it gw wants to do it they will.

I jus can't see matured bones that have Been fused with ceramic based strengthening agents during growth staring to grow again.

Maybe he's wearing super primaris armor that boosts him while he's wearing it somehow.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/05 04:42:37


"I learned the hard way that if you take a stand on any issue, no matter how insignificant, people will line up around the block to kick your ass over it." Jesse "the mind" Ventura. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Ute nation

 Techpriestsupport wrote:
Well, accorind to one version of the background which made sense a marine had to begin implants in early puberty as the process used the body's natural growth to work. This actually made a lot of sense so gw probably killed it.

As to taking a full grown centuries old old marine and upgrading him, I can't say it makes sense but it gw wants to do it they will.

I jus can't see matured bones that have Been fused with ceramic based strengthening agents during growth staring to grow again.

Maybe he's wearing super primaris armor that boosts him while he's wearing it somehow.


The primaris lore says that's exactly what they did with the first batches, took fully matured space marines and added three organs to them, which caused further changes on top of the changes they had already undergone to become space marines. Also not all geneseeds required the recipient to be that young, Lukas the trickster for instance has descendants among the mortals of fenris. There is also an order for the the organs to be implanted, for most geneseeds the first starts early and other organs are added over a course of a few years. These two new organs require that the marine have undergone the rest of the implantation first, and thus be a mature marine before their addition.

Lexicanum has a good article that talks about the primaris implants:
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Creation_of_a_Space_Marine

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/05 05:05:52


Necrons - 4k
Dark angels - 2k


"You know what they say about brute force, if it's not working you are not using enough of it" 
   
Made in gb
Frenzied Berserker Terminator






Primaris lore is terrible to begin with, so I think we'll all be scratching our heads when we here the process of upgrading to Primaris. They probably take some gene juice in a shake and do some yoga to prepare for the subsequent growing, while chanting 'I wish I was big"
   
Made in au
Commanding Marut






 Desubot wrote:
Mmmm. well with GW and their retcons did he "Really" lose his arms.


Didn't he also lose his legs?

I mean they pretty much could have kept him as is but given him new bionics to upgrade him to the same level; getting around the entire primaris thing.
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch






I think the reality is...he hasn't converted to Primaris. He simply had Primaris armour made to go over his other original armour to make him seem larger.

 
   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 Elbows wrote:
I think the reality is...he hasn't converted to Primaris. He simply had Primaris armour made to go over his other original armour to make him seem larger.


Seeing primaris are head taller than reqular marines neat trick

“Nothing has a definite nature, so people cannot be purely evil. Even so-called evil people will aspire to follow a moral path when they feel a sense of community.” – Kukai

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 Elbows wrote:
I think the reality is...he hasn't converted to Primaris. He simply had Primaris armour made to go over his other original armour to make him seem larger.


GW says he's Primaris.
   
Made in au
Commanding Marut






tneva82 wrote:
 Elbows wrote:
I think the reality is...he hasn't converted to Primaris. He simply had Primaris armour made to go over his other original armour to make him seem larger.


Seeing primaris are head taller than reqular marines neat trick


Platform shoes.
   
Made in us
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Mississippi

When did Calgar get Anakin'ed? I know he lost a tussle with the Swarmlord, but I'm not versed enough on the lore to remember hearing anywhere he'd lost any limbs.

As for putting Primaris Calgar and Mini-gar on the same field, sure why not? Clones do exist in 40K. And I wouldn't doubt that Imperium propaganda has been lying about rejuvination therapies to keep individuals long-lived; it could be just as well as the advanced electronics in a marine's battlesuit backs up the marine's memories prior to (and following) a battle, and if the marine is lost, his memories are just downloaded to a clone blank and he's re-activated. ...That's pretty grimdark, when you think about it.

(Similar to the movie, "The Moon")

It never ends well 
   
Made in gb
Frenzied Berserker Terminator






 Stormonu wrote:
When did Calgar get Anakin'ed? I know he lost a tussle with the Swarmlord, but I'm not versed enough on the lore to remember hearing anywhere he'd lost any limbs.

As for putting Primaris Calgar and Mini-gar on the same field, sure why not? Clones do exist in 40K. And I wouldn't doubt that Imperium propaganda has been lying about rejuvination therapies to keep individuals long-lived; it could be just as well as the advanced electronics in a marine's battlesuit backs up the marine's memories prior to (and following) a battle, and if the marine is lost, his memories are just downloaded to a clone blank and he's re-activated. ...That's pretty grimdark, when you think about it.

(Similar to the movie, "The Moon")


He lost his limbs against the Swarmlord.
   
Made in au
Commanding Marut






 Stormonu wrote:
When did Calgar get Anakin'ed? I know he lost a tussle with the Swarmlord, but I'm not versed enough on the lore to remember hearing anywhere he'd lost any limbs.

As for putting Primaris Calgar and Mini-gar on the same field, sure why not? Clones do exist in 40K. And I wouldn't doubt that Imperium propaganda has been lying about rejuvination therapies to keep individuals long-lived; it could be just as well as the advanced electronics in a marine's battlesuit backs up the marine's memories prior to (and following) a battle, and if the marine is lost, his memories are just downloaded to a clone blank and he's re-activated. ...That's pretty grimdark, when you think about it.

(Similar to the movie, "The Moon")


Would need to also reprogram the memories to bring the clone more in line than the original to be grimdark enough though.
   
Made in us
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker





 NurglesR0T wrote:
With the 2 Calgar question, that will only be an issue until the next codex when his other entries will be removed. They've already planned to take him down from the webstore with the honour guard being reboxed to not include him.


There's already precedent for this issue anyways, previous characters that have multiple versions of themselves available have specific exceptions in their datasheet saying they can't be ran at the same time as the other model. The Red Scorpions guy in the FW books is like this.
   
Made in us
Bounding Dark Angels Assault Marine




Hanoi, Vietnam.

 Insectum7 wrote:
^Index. The power armor one and the terminator one are in the index. Only the terminator one is in the codex.


Wait! So two in the index, one in the codex, and one more in the Vigilus book, so...
Spoiler:
FOUR MARNEUS CALGARS!!!
   
Made in gb
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets





Cardiff

Maybe the fluff will explain once the book is released?

OP assumes he has regrown his arms like a lizard. He could still have bionics for all we know. He might have new arms but really love power fists. I’m sure we’ll be told in the Vigilus Defiant book’s background content, and maybe an abbreviated version in White Dwarf. And thereafter cribbed to every 40K Wiki-style site on the net.

Ruleswise, the Datasheet preview already tells us you can’t have more than one Marneus Calgar in your army. In an Open Play game you could run four Cal-bros if your opponent didn’t mind!

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
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What confuses me is why a Chapter Master is so damn powerful. He’s more powerful than Captain-general Valoris of the Custodes haha
   
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Most Glorious Grey Seer






Hold on.

When did Calgar lose his arms? That's a new one on me entirely.

Fed up for Scalpers? Why not join us? 
   
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Hanoi, Vietnam.

 Tiberius501 wrote:
What confuses me is why a Chapter Master is so damn powerful. He’s more powerful than Captain-general Valoris of the Custodes haha

Because he's our Spiritual Liege.
   
Made in de
Inspiring Icon Bearer






 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Hold on.

When did Calgar lose his arms? That's a new one on me entirely.


As mentioned above, he got anakined against the Swarmlord. Swarmy even told him it had the high ground, but do you think Marneus listened?

The funnier thing to me is the thought you need to lose your arms to wear a power fist. How did we get there? Because that's what the Gauntlets of Ultramar are, relic power fists. Doesn't make a difference if there's flesh or bionics underneath.

As for multiple Calgars, GW has though of that. Preview on Warhammer Community (see spoiler) uses Marneus Calgar keyword to limit you to one. Simple and effective.

Spoiler:

Nehekhara lives! Sort of! 
   
Made in pl
Dakka Veteran





 Tiberius501 wrote:
What confuses me is why a Chapter Master is so damn powerful. He’s more powerful than Captain-general Valoris of the Custodes haha

S4 T5 4++ is better than S5 T5 3++ now? How?

Ditto with their weapons, one hits at S8 d3 damage, other S10 3 flat damage. Gee, Calgar is sure more powerful
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch





Dallas area, TX

What I find funny is that GW chose a character with easy pun potential in his name.
I.e, Primaris Maneus Calgar = Primarneus Calgar

-

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/05 14:03:32


   
Made in us
Guarding Guardian




Kenosha, WI

 Galef wrote:
What I find funny is that GW chose a character with easy pun potential in his name.
I.e, Primaris Maneus Calgar = Primarneus Calgar

-


The most important comment in this thread.
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar






 Irbis wrote:
 Tiberius501 wrote:
What confuses me is why a Chapter Master is so damn powerful. He’s more powerful than Captain-general Valoris of the Custodes haha

S4 T5 4++ is better than S5 T5 3++ now? How?

Ditto with their weapons, one hits at S8 d3 damage, other S10 3 flat damage. Gee, Calgar is sure more powerful

Whats funny is Valoris is dropping to 175 points and Calgar is slated to be 220. GW sucks at points. Valoris sadly is only d3 damage though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Galef wrote:
What I find funny is that GW chose a character with easy pun potential in his name.
I.e, Primaris Maneus Calgar = Primarneus Calgar

-

Not sure why but this makes me think of Beast Wars Optimus Primal.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/12/05 14:28:54


If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
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