Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So this business with Calgar getting made into a primaris is not sitting well with me and makes me have a few questions.

Firstly, I'm assuming that to make him into a primaris, they have rebuilt his body in some way - making him taller, new organs, new gene seed etc etc. If so, where are his arms? He had 2 power fists because they were cut off - did he decide that with his new arms he'd rather have them cut off again?

Secondly, from a rules perspective, could you technically field 2 Calgars? By my reckoning, old Calgar and new Calgar are different models - so the "no duplicates of unique models" gets a little fuzzy.

I didn't say they were good questions

Mmmm. well with GW and their retcons did he "Really" lose his arms.

second does it matter.

i dont think there are too many jean seeds that are involved in the arms and legs and if they are bionic, id assume you could detach them instead of just cutting them off.

as for the unique models things...... eh its probably some where in CA or they will forget to put it in so will be put into an FAQ at some point.

Why couldn't he just be wearing two power fists now?

Sumilidon wrote:


Secondly, from a rules perspective, could you technically field 2 Calgars? By my reckoning, old Calgar and new Calgar are different models - so the "no duplicates of unique models" gets a little fuzzy.

I didn't say they were good questions

Sammael already has that issue covered. 2 models. The data sheets specifically state that you can't use both.

With the 2 Calgar question, that will only be an issue until the next codex when his other entries will be removed. They've already planned to take him down from the webstore with the honour guard being reboxed to not include him.

Zustiur wrote:

Sumilidon wrote:


Secondly, from a rules perspective, could you technically field 2 Calgars? By my reckoning, old Calgar and new Calgar are different models - so the "no duplicates of unique models" gets a little fuzzy.

I didn't say they were good questions

Sammael already has that issue covered. 2 models. The data sheets specifically state that you can't use both.

Actually...Calgar himself already has that covered, as he has 2 datasheets in the codex...

^Index. The power armor one and the terminator one are in the index. Only the terminator one is in the codex.

Sumilidon wrote:
So this business with Calgar getting made into a primaris is not sitting well with me and makes me have a few questions.

Firstly, I'm assuming that to make him into a primaris, they have rebuilt his body in some way - making him taller, new organs, new gene seed etc etc. If so, where are his arms? He had 2 power fists because they were cut off - did he decide that with his new arms he'd rather have them cut off again?

Secondly, from a rules perspective, could you technically field 2 Calgars? By my reckoning, old Calgar and new Calgar are different models - so the "no duplicates of unique models" gets a little fuzzy.

I didn't say they were good questions

The first primaris marines were normal space marines that volunteered for enhancement some time around/after the HH. So from the beginning primaris marines have been normal marines with two organs added, one that makes them tougher and one that makes the faster. Calgar merely got the two organs implanted in him, just like the first primaris marines. They don't do this for most of the existing marines because it's wasteful, by the time they are full battle brothers one of their progenoid glands has already been harvested and the other is only recoverable at time of death. However due to failures during training, rejection, they probably have a few spares floating about, so if the marines important enough they can upgrade them to primaris. Calgar fits the definition of important, so it's not surprising that he would be one of the first of the current generation of marines to receive the upgrade treatment. I would expect all of the chapter masters to get it done eventually, though GW says the art department takes the lead on new models and rules/fluff comes afterwards, so I doubt they will bust them out assembly line style. Primaris Azrael, Dante, Logan Grimnar, the shrike, etc. should all be available some time in the future.

No I imagine you can not field two Calgars,

Well, accorind to one version of the background which made sense a marine had to begin implants in early puberty as the process used the body's natural growth to work. This actually made a lot of sense so gw probably killed it.

As to taking a full grown centuries old old marine and upgrading him, I can't say it makes sense but it gw wants to do it they will.

I jus can't see matured bones that have Been fused with ceramic based strengthening agents during growth staring to grow again.

Maybe he's wearing super primaris armor that boosts him while he's wearing it somehow.

 Techpriestsupport wrote:
Well, accorind to one version of the background which made sense a marine had to begin implants in early puberty as the process used the body's natural growth to work. This actually made a lot of sense so gw probably killed it.

As to taking a full grown centuries old old marine and upgrading him, I can't say it makes sense but it gw wants to do it they will.

I jus can't see matured bones that have Been fused with ceramic based strengthening agents during growth staring to grow again.

Maybe he's wearing super primaris armor that boosts him while he's wearing it somehow.

The primaris lore says that's exactly what they did with the first batches, took fully matured space marines and added three organs to them, which caused further changes on top of the changes they had already undergone to become space marines. Also not all geneseeds required the recipient to be that young, Lukas the trickster for instance has descendants among the mortals of fenris. There is also an order for the the organs to be implanted, for most geneseeds the first starts early and other organs are added over a course of a few years. These two new organs require that the marine have undergone the rest of the implantation first, and thus be a mature marine before their addition.

Lexicanum has a good article that talks about the primaris implants:
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Creation_of_a_Space_Marine

Primaris lore is terrible to begin with, so I think we'll all be scratching our heads when we here the process of upgrading to Primaris. They probably take some gene juice in a shake and do some yoga to prepare for the subsequent growing, while chanting 'I wish I was big"

 Desubot wrote:
Mmmm. well with GW and their retcons did he "Really" lose his arms.

Didn't he also lose his legs?

I mean they pretty much could have kept him as is but given him new bionics to upgrade him to the same level; getting around the entire primaris thing.

I think the reality is...he hasn't converted to Primaris. He simply had Primaris armour made to go over his other original armour to make him seem larger.

 Elbows wrote:
I think the reality is...he hasn't converted to Primaris. He simply had Primaris armour made to go over his other original armour to make him seem larger.

Seeing primaris are head taller than reqular marines neat trick

 Elbows wrote:
I think the reality is...he hasn't converted to Primaris. He simply had Primaris armour made to go over his other original armour to make him seem larger.

GW says he's Primaris.

tneva82 wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
I think the reality is...he hasn't converted to Primaris. He simply had Primaris armour made to go over his other original armour to make him seem larger.

Seeing primaris are head taller than reqular marines neat trick

Platform shoes.

When did Calgar get Anakin'ed? I know he lost a tussle with the Swarmlord, but I'm not versed enough on the lore to remember hearing anywhere he'd lost any limbs.

As for putting Primaris Calgar and Mini-gar on the same field, sure why not? Clones do exist in 40K. And I wouldn't doubt that Imperium propaganda has been lying about rejuvination therapies to keep individuals long-lived; it could be just as well as the advanced electronics in a marine's battlesuit backs up the marine's memories prior to (and following) a battle, and if the marine is lost, his memories are just downloaded to a clone blank and he's re-activated. ...That's pretty grimdark, when you think about it.

(Similar to the movie, "The Moon")

 Stormonu wrote:
When did Calgar get Anakin'ed? I know he lost a tussle with the Swarmlord, but I'm not versed enough on the lore to remember hearing anywhere he'd lost any limbs.

As for putting Primaris Calgar and Mini-gar on the same field, sure why not? Clones do exist in 40K. And I wouldn't doubt that Imperium propaganda has been lying about rejuvination therapies to keep individuals long-lived; it could be just as well as the advanced electronics in a marine's battlesuit backs up the marine's memories prior to (and following) a battle, and if the marine is lost, his memories are just downloaded to a clone blank and he's re-activated. ...That's pretty grimdark, when you think about it.

(Similar to the movie, "The Moon")

He lost his limbs against the Swarmlord.

 Stormonu wrote:
When did Calgar get Anakin'ed? I know he lost a tussle with the Swarmlord, but I'm not versed enough on the lore to remember hearing anywhere he'd lost any limbs.

As for putting Primaris Calgar and Mini-gar on the same field, sure why not? Clones do exist in 40K. And I wouldn't doubt that Imperium propaganda has been lying about rejuvination therapies to keep individuals long-lived; it could be just as well as the advanced electronics in a marine's battlesuit backs up the marine's memories prior to (and following) a battle, and if the marine is lost, his memories are just downloaded to a clone blank and he's re-activated. ...That's pretty grimdark, when you think about it.

(Similar to the movie, "The Moon")

Would need to also reprogram the memories to bring the clone more in line than the original to be grimdark enough though.

 NurglesR0T wrote:
With the 2 Calgar question, that will only be an issue until the next codex when his other entries will be removed. They've already planned to take him down from the webstore with the honour guard being reboxed to not include him.

There's already precedent for this issue anyways, previous characters that have multiple versions of themselves available have specific exceptions in their datasheet saying they can't be ran at the same time as the other model. The Red Scorpions guy in the FW books is like this.

 Insectum7 wrote:
^Index. The power armor one and the terminator one are in the index. Only the terminator one is in the codex.

Wait! So two in the index, one in the codex, and one more in the Vigilus book, so...

Maybe the fluff will explain once the book is released?

OP assumes he has regrown his arms like a lizard. He could still have bionics for all we know. He might have new arms but really love power fists. I’m sure we’ll be told in the Vigilus Defiant book’s background content, and maybe an abbreviated version in White Dwarf. And thereafter cribbed to every 40K Wiki-style site on the net.

Ruleswise, the Datasheet preview already tells us you can’t have more than one Marneus Calgar in your army. In an Open Play game you could run four Cal-bros if your opponent didn’t mind!

What confuses me is why a Chapter Master is so damn powerful. He’s more powerful than Captain-general Valoris of the Custodes haha

Hold on.

When did Calgar lose his arms? That's a new one on me entirely.

 Tiberius501 wrote:
What confuses me is why a Chapter Master is so damn powerful. He’s more powerful than Captain-general Valoris of the Custodes haha

Because he's our Spiritual Liege.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Hold on.

When did Calgar lose his arms? That's a new one on me entirely.

As mentioned above, he got anakined against the Swarmlord. Swarmy even told him it had the high ground, but do you think Marneus listened?

The funnier thing to me is the thought you need to lose your arms to wear a power fist. How did we get there? Because that's what the Gauntlets of Ultramar are, relic power fists. Doesn't make a difference if there's flesh or bionics underneath.

As for multiple Calgars, GW has though of that. Preview on Warhammer Community (see spoiler) uses Marneus Calgar keyword to limit you to one. Simple and effective.

 Tiberius501 wrote:
What confuses me is why a Chapter Master is so damn powerful. He’s more powerful than Captain-general Valoris of the Custodes haha

S4 T5 4++ is better than S5 T5 3++ now? How?

Ditto with their weapons, one hits at S8 d3 damage, other S10 3 flat damage. Gee, Calgar is sure more powerful

What I find funny is that GW chose a character with easy pun potential in his name.
I.e, Primaris Maneus Calgar = Primarneus Calgar

-

 Galef wrote:
What I find funny is that GW chose a character with easy pun potential in his name.
I.e, Primaris Maneus Calgar = Primarneus Calgar

-

The most important comment in this thread.

 Irbis wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:
What confuses me is why a Chapter Master is so damn powerful. He’s more powerful than Captain-general Valoris of the Custodes haha

S4 T5 4++ is better than S5 T5 3++ now? How?

Ditto with their weapons, one hits at S8 d3 damage, other S10 3 flat damage. Gee, Calgar is sure more powerful

Whats funny is Valoris is dropping to 175 points and Calgar is slated to be 220. GW sucks at points. Valoris sadly is only d3 damage though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Galef wrote:
What I find funny is that GW chose a character with easy pun potential in his name.
I.e, Primaris Maneus Calgar = Primarneus Calgar

-

Not sure why but this makes me think of Beast Wars Optimus Primal.